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News & Features Discussion  » Dominus: A Note to the Vocal Minority

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95 posts found
  Ruinal

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/08
Posts: 196

2/17/12 5:27:44 PM#41

Did Ilwinter Game Design drop their use of Dominus as a title, I seem to remember those as very in-depth rpg wargames.


Couldn't agree more Torvaldr. The customer is *not* always right.


"Developers shouldn't be angry at these people.  It's not their fault.  The industry has failed them.  The "magic" of first-love with an MMORPG cannot be recreated."


Gotta admit, after so many mmo 'failures' (imho), I'm just too jaded now to enjoy mmos as I once did. My guild had been raiding in SW:TOR for about a month, beat 'hard' mode, nearly beat 'Insane'... and I'm just thoroughly sick of the game now and unsubbed.


The VM are perhaps getting to the point where there simply is no pleasing them, whatever features and innovation a dev brings to the table, because we are so worn down by the stream of mediocre half-baked mmos trying to pass themselves off as AAA. Hence the virulent fanboy / hater dynamic on many forums... fanboy wants the 'next big thing', hater has given up on it (but secretly wants that 'magic' back). You don't find many of the VM who aren't one of the other.


  RoyalPhunk

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/11
Posts: 181

2/17/12 8:16:30 PM#42

Originally posted by Tardcore

Since every person in the world is at their heart a vocal minority of one, I find this idea of the "vocal minority" to be patently ridiculous. All it really is, is a petty little device to automatically gainsay and invalidate any idea that a self styled member of the spurious "Majority" disagrees with.




 




In truth it is nothing more than a cheap discrimination tactic. IE, "Your opinion doesn't matter as the majority of people who disagree with you don't post here, or in fact don't feel the need to post anywhere as everyting about the issue under discussion is completely hunky dory for this 'phantom' majority of individuals." Its as meaningless an argument as "There are starving children in Africa that would be dead grateful for whatever food item you've chosen to feed to the dog rather than eat."




 




I find this arrogant and narrowminded behavior especially galling when it comes from an author of a site devoted to the discussion of MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAMES.




 




In short OP I fail to see how your little screaming wobbler about the angst of social retardation among your online peers is in any way different from the bad behavior of others you've outlinded in your little tirade. I get the idea that none of us are a beautiful or  unique snowflake, however you seem to imply you and your "majority" of likeminded individuals somehow are.




 




All I can say to that is just like the rest of us, you are just one more chattering monkey in a world full of chattering monkeys. Trying to disenfranchise those whos opinions you do not respect does not make you a superior individual, just an asshole.





 


 


 


 


 


That was beautiful sir....




 




+1





 

  aleos

Novice Member

Joined: 1/02/07
Posts: 1895

Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality.

2/18/12 12:13:32 AM#43
Originally posted by Tardcore

In truth it is nothing more than a cheap discrimination tactic.

pay more attention to this man.

  Toto020

Novice Member

Joined: 12/08/11
Posts: 49

2/18/12 12:54:31 AM#44

Vocal minority?  Sounds like the rant of someone who's pandering to the gaming companies... 


Rather than calling out the" rushed to launch" gaming companies for their failures, it's somehow our fault that they can't come up with a decent product...


Is there whinning, sure, but fanbois do the gaming community any real benefit either.  Both must be taken with a grain of salt.


On a personal note, I never buy product based on the positive reviews but on the negative as they are more likely to be honest and not paid for their reviews...  Let alone I know what to expect.


  b0bbyZ

Novice Member

Joined: 10/08/06
Posts: 46

2/18/12 1:27:21 AM#45

Are you in the Firefall beta perchance? Everything you said applies perfectly to the forums there.


  b0bbyZ

Novice Member

Joined: 10/08/06
Posts: 46

2/18/12 1:48:56 AM#46

Originally posted by Tardcore

Since every person in the world is at their heart a vocal minority of one, I find this idea of the "vocal minority" to be patently ridiculous. All it really is, is a petty little device to automatically gainsay and invalidate any idea that a self styled member of the spurious "Majority" disagrees with.




 




In truth it is nothing more than a cheap discrimination tactic. IE, "Your opinion doesn't matter as the majority of people who disagree with you don't post here, or in fact don't feel the need to post anywhere as everyting about the issue under discussion is completely hunky dory for this 'phantom' majority of individuals." Its as meaningless an argument as "There are starving children in Africa that would be dead grateful for whatever food item you've chosen to feed to the dog rather than eat."




 




I find this arrogant and narrowminded behavior especially galling when it comes from an author of a site devoted to the discussion of MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAMES.




 




In short OP I fail to see how your little screaming wobbler about the angst of social retardation among your online peers is in any way different from the bad behavior of others you've outlinded in your little tirade. I get the idea that none of us are a beautiful or  unique snowflake, however you seem to imply you and your "majority" of likeminded individuals somehow are.




 




All I can say to that is just like the rest of us, you are just one more chattering monkey in a world full of chattering monkeys. Trying to disenfranchise those whos opinions you do not respect does not make you a superior individual, just an asshole.





 


I think the tone of this article went completely over your head.You sound like an asshole who thinks his/her opinion makes them superior(throwing in the phrase " like the rest of us" does not make you exempt from the rest of your post) but really just ends up being an asshole.


Oh wait, is that what I'm doing?  Won't someone please come quote me and continue this endless circle?


Swing and a miss, pal.


  Myrdynn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/25/07
Posts: 1317

2/18/12 1:54:19 AM#47
Originally posted by RoyalPhunk

Originally posted by Tardcore

Since every person in the world is at their heart a vocal minority of one, I find this idea of the "vocal minority" to be patently ridiculous. All it really is, is a petty little device to automatically gainsay and invalidate any idea that a self styled member of the spurious "Majority" disagrees with.




 




In truth it is nothing more than a cheap discrimination tactic. IE, "Your opinion doesn't matter as the majority of people who disagree with you don't post here, or in fact don't feel the need to post anywhere as everyting about the issue under discussion is completely hunky dory for this 'phantom' majority of individuals." Its as meaningless an argument as "There are starving children in Africa that would be dead grateful for whatever food item you've chosen to feed to the dog rather than eat."

I find this arrogant and narrowminded behavior especially galling when it comes from an author of a site devoted to the discussion of MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAMES.

In short OP I fail to see how your little screaming wobbler about the angst of social retardation among your online peers is in any way different from the bad behavior of others you've outlinded in your little tirade. I get the idea that none of us are a beautiful or  unique snowflake, however you seem to imply you and your "majority" of likeminded individuals somehow are.

All I can say to that is just like the rest of us, you are just one more chattering monkey in a world full of chattering monkeys. Trying to disenfranchise those whos opinions you do not respect does not make you a superior individual, just an asshole.




 

That was beautiful sir....


+1
 

I agree with everything in this post +2 except for the punctuation, too much space between paragraphs.

I started out totally following Prime: I was even a world tester for  Pitch Black.  But everything this chick spews makes me want Dominus to succeed less and less.

She seems like a total self righteous bitch imo

  Littlebomb

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/10
Posts: 158

2/18/12 2:03:22 AM#48

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

I'm a member of the "vocal minority": I post on forums and I play Eve Online (a niche game compared to SWTOR).




 




And I don't agree with important aspects of SWTOR.




 




I do have the experience to see how SWTOR could be improved.




 




From experience I know that the chances of SWTOR being improved are very unlikely. This is because companies and devs, like the author, are generally very resistant to change (with the rare exception of CCP).




 




I think the author of the article should be aware that if his company does not respond to good advice, then he and his colleagues will sooner or later be sacked. This is just the way of the world. This is why just about every company on the Forbes 100 list of 1930 is no longer in existence (with the exeption of General Electric).




Many good directors are often sacked from companies because they report the truth the the board. The companies continue to live in denial until they go bankrupt.







 




 


Well said.


 


I think the OP's article is coming from a broken hearted SWTOR player's perspective. 


I would also argue that the reason no mmo in recent past has caught on big is because no mmo in recent past besides RIFT is quality and Rift lacks good ART and IP.


I mean there has been nothing since WOW that was half way decent. Rift is techincally great but it's art is horrible.


 


I think blaming the player base for being unhappy with the crap they keep shoveling at us is off base.


  Sojhin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 147

2/18/12 2:23:45 AM#49

The rant/post by Sanya Weathers does no favors to the game this person supports.


  cirdane

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/07
Posts: 38

2/18/12 2:37:28 AM#50

Sanya it is nice to see that you have come so far in your post DAOC career.  As an old time daoc player I remember watching for your posts and praying that you would at last bring news from codeguard that the code gods had heard our pleas........sucks to be the mesenger.




So ...when will you be writing the tell all book on DAOC ? please put me down for two copies one to read and keep and the other for dark voodoo curses on the Alby lovin nerfers who so beat on my ranger/thane/skald for sooooo long. 




Thank you for the informative and funny read hope you continue to do well in the future. 





 

  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

2/18/12 2:40:26 AM#51
Originally posted by Littlebomb

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

I'm a member of the "vocal minority": I post on forums and I play Eve Online (a niche game compared to SWTOR).




 




And I don't agree with important aspects of SWTOR.




 




I do have the experience to see how SWTOR could be improved.




 




From experience I know that the chances of SWTOR being improved are very unlikely. This is because companies and devs, like the author, are generally very resistant to change (with the rare exception of CCP).




 




I think the author of the article should be aware that if his company does not respond to good advice, then he and his colleagues will sooner or later be sacked. This is just the way of the world. This is why just about every company on the Forbes 100 list of 1930 is no longer in existence (with the exeption of General Electric).




Many good directors are often sacked from companies because they report the truth the the board. The companies continue to live in denial until they go bankrupt.







 




 

Well said.


 


I think the OP's article is coming from a broken hearted SWTOR player's perspective. 


I would also argue that the reason no mmo in recent past has caught on big is because no mmo in recent past besides RIFT is quality and Rift lacks good ART and IP.


I mean there has been nothing since WOW that was half way decent. Rift is techincally great but it's art is horrible.


 


I think blaming the player base for being unhappy with the crap they keep shoveling at us is off base.

You kind of invalidate your opinion by calling Rift quality... It has polish, but quality? It uses the same broken gameplay mechanics that WoW has been limping along with for the past 7 years. There's nothing really new in Rift. But, because it aimed so low, it was able to polish. I guess polish means more than interesting gameplay these days...

Also, you guys act like this is some random idiot posting this article. This is Sanya, one of the most experienced long standing veterans of the genre, who was involved with probably the third most successful MMO to date.

  Magnetia

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/07/11
Posts: 963

Any fool can know. The point is to understand.

2/18/12 3:02:27 AM#52
Originally posted by Torvaldr

It's not black and white.  Jeff Atwood (from Stack Overflow) has an interesting blog post about his very thing, only his project wasn't an MMO.  Online communities can be beasts as anyone here knows.

Coding Horror blog post: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/02/listen-to-your-community-but-dont-let-them-tell-you-what-to-do.html

An excellent read for insight from a more professional perspective. Most of us have little idea what goes into implementing new features into a game during development let alone post launch. Unless the game has been built with future implementations in mind it is either going to be a massive job (Flying in WoW, just think about all the clipping they had to put in for flight) or time consuming (which means more money). I expect that devs also have many cool features that they wanted to put into the game but had to ultimately be cut because there simply wasn't enough time, money, technology (GW Polymock was supposed to have pvp) or just didn't feel right. (Diablo 3 henchmen)

I also have little idea what really goes into making a game :P

Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?

  Raxeon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/10/10
Posts: 2055

2/18/12 3:22:56 AM#53

you guys are taking the blog the wrong way lol if you let this blog decide if you going to play dom. then your just asshole that thing your opinion matters more than anyones elses.(this is the reason i dont like going out in the real world and just play my games and work) cause i would just punch people in the face that get upset about a blog


  Hatefull

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/09/04
Posts: 742

Your tears make my gun work better.

2/18/12 3:38:37 AM#54

I agree with Sonya here.  There has been more than one instance where I was busy playing a game, and the vocal whineority (who ususally spend more time on the boards than actually playing) cried up a storm until something that was working just fine for the majority was changed.  It can be a bit annoying.  SWG was famous for listening to the minorty of whiners and where did it get them? yeah, dead.


DAoC, Lineage 2, etc etc still plugging along ignoring everyone they may not post the numbers they did in their prime, but they are still very much alive.


Bottom line;  The vocal mionority does way more harm than good in my opinion.


If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  Raxeon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/10/10
Posts: 2055

2/18/12 3:46:41 AM#55
Originally posted by Hatefull

I agree with Sonya here.  There has been more than one instance where I was busy playing a game, and the vocal whineority (who ususally spend more time on the boards than actually playing) cried up a storm until something that was working just fine for the majority was changed.  It can be a bit annoying.  SWG was famous for listening to the minorty of whiners and where did it get them? yeah, dead.


DAoC, Lineage 2, etc etc still plugging along ignoring everyone they may not post the numbers they did in their prime, but they are still very much alive.


Bottom line;  The vocal mionority does way more harm than good in my opinion.

yep esspiccly if you dont have serious beta testers

  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

2/18/12 3:57:55 AM#56
Originally posted by Raxeon
Originally posted by Hatefull

I agree with Sonya here.  There has been more than one instance where I was busy playing a game, and the vocal whineority (who ususally spend more time on the boards than actually playing) cried up a storm until something that was working just fine for the majority was changed.  It can be a bit annoying.  SWG was famous for listening to the minorty of whiners and where did it get them? yeah, dead.


DAoC, Lineage 2, etc etc still plugging along ignoring everyone they may not post the numbers they did in their prime, but they are still very much alive.


Bottom line;  The vocal mionority does way more harm than good in my opinion.

yep esspiccly if you dont have serious beta testers

Er... sometimes you SHOULD listen to the players. Like, SOE not reversing the NGE in SWG.

Or, DAoC not listening to its players about /level 20, the instances, ToA... there's a reason DAoC is down to one server now, when it used to be the second most popular MMO out there, and its because Mythic started litsening to EA instead of its players.

But AoC, an example of a bad vocal minority... when a bunch of WoW raiding guilds got into early beta and complained about how hard the game was AoC made it easier and easier until it was essentially a WoW clone that wouldn't even challenge a toddler with brain damage.

  BartDaCat

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/07/04
Posts: 815

Gamer Forums, where "First World Problems" are our specialty!

2/18/12 5:28:45 AM#57




Ah, how entertaining!  Nothing quite like seeing our opinions being marginalized by an alleged Community Rep on a website where people in the community come to exchange feedback and ideas about their favorite pasttime.


  Findariel

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/20/05
Posts: 216

2/18/12 5:59:05 AM#58

Wow nice article, the first game that came to mind was EVE! :D

  Bigdaddyx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1318

2/18/12 6:04:05 AM#59
Originally posted by BartDaCat




Ah, how entertaining!  Nothing quite like seeing our opinions being marginalized by an alleged Community Rep on a website where people in the community come to exchange feedback and ideas about their favorite pasttime.

Are we still talking about mmorpg.com ;p

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15106

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

2/18/12 6:13:28 AM#60
Originally posted by Teala



Originally posted by Ozmodan



Kind of an amusing post Sanya.  Since no one ever listened to the vocal minority at DAoC, where nerfing classes and abilities into oblivion was SOP.  And of course the famous Trials of Atlantis fiasco that did a major deflate on the playerbase.  Sometimes the vocal minority is screaming for a darn good reason and ignoring them is the wrong move.







 



I couldn't have said it better, I have tried to figure out what to say and then I found your post and I think you summed it up nicely.   I think too few people recall just how heavy of hand the Mythic CR used back in the day - but it was enough that it finally drove me away from the game.  Mythic didn't care for criticism in the least.   You(Sanya) and Scott were very quick to shut down anyone that might disagree with Mythics handling of things.  Rarely was their room for debate.





 

You say that as if there were official DAOC forums...  I don't recall that at any time.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason

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