Originally posted by Epicent

Originally posted by killion81

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

There is a maximum of  500 players allowed in each of the 4 areas, now imagine that me and my friends march intoo a zone with an army of 400. .. then none of the 2 other servers can get enough people in that zone to defend anything...

 

On top of that most people will probably want to fight in the middle zone...  which makes that zone easilly overpopulated... and when the zone is full, noboddy can tresspass through it to other zones...   I think the 500 people/zone max will call out for a lot of frustrations, when there is an important battle going on and people can't join it...

 

 

 

If you have 400 friends that all play GW2 on the same server as you and you can get them all to log in at the same time for a coordinated attack, you may be the best Guild Leader that has ever existed.  That's 10 old-school WoW 40 man raids, simultaneously.  You know how hard it was to keep a single 40 man raid together all the way through MC or BWL, especially when you were learning the fights?

Ive gotten together 120 + b4.

Largest I have been in was just under 500 players and that was the most epic thing I have ever seen online. I cant even picture 2000 players running around on a map. 

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Originally posted by Pilnkplonk
You're forgetting relics in the home zones...
If the central zone cap is reached you'll still be able to go raid opponents relics (or whatever they're called) for a nice stab in the back at a very inopportune time. :)

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and this is why we can't have nice things ... people come up with "flaws" even before they se it in action. and people cry way too much about being zerged ...

so thus we are stuck with battlegrounds with even sides. and people then cry when games do that .... "y u no make open pvp?!!?"

if someone can get 400 people together and go into the mists they deserve to own it all ... however they will not have that 400 person army throughout the whole 2 weeks.

and if they do then well they were just more coordinated than the other servers and deserve to win.

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

I played DAoC for a few year and let me say this. Its not often you see a war of more then 100-150 a side. It takes a lot to pull off that many players. Also Anet has said they are trying to make it fit more then 500 a map. Thats already 2000 players in the open world area and they want to make it bigger capacity. Honestly I will be shocked if this ever gets close to the cap even on peek times on the most populated servers. 

In objective wars like this no side will want everyone on one map as this means you win one area and lose the war. People will see whats already going on and move to new areas that need taking and defending. Thats how objective wars work. 

This!!

www is only a part of the game, not everybody will join at the same time. 

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

There is a maximum of  500 players allowed in each of the 4 areas, now imagine that me and my friends march intoo a zone with an army of 400. .. then none of the 2 other servers can get enough people in that zone to defend anything...

 

On top of that most people will probably want to fight in the middle zone...  which makes that zone easilly overpopulated... and when the zone is full, noboddy can tresspass through it to other zones...   I think the 500 people/zone max will call out for a lot of frustrations, when there is an important battle going on and people can't join it...

 

 

Maybe the sun won't come up tomorrow.

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Epicent

Originally posted by killion81

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

There is a maximum of  500 players allowed in each of the 4 areas, now imagine that me and my friends march intoo a zone with an army of 400. .. then none of the 2 other servers can get enough people in that zone to defend anything...

 

On top of that most people will probably want to fight in the middle zone...  which makes that zone easilly overpopulated... and when the zone is full, noboddy can tresspass through it to other zones...   I think the 500 people/zone max will call out for a lot of frustrations, when there is an important battle going on and people can't join it...

 

 

 

If you have 400 friends that all play GW2 on the same server as you and you can get them all to log in at the same time for a coordinated attack, you may be the best Guild Leader that has ever existed.  That's 10 old-school WoW 40 man raids, simultaneously.  You know how hard it was to keep a single 40 man raid together all the way through MC or BWL, especially when you were learning the fights?

Ive gotten together 120 + b4.

Largest I have been in was just under 500 players and that was the most epic thing I have ever seen online. I cant even picture 2000 players running around on a map. 

You should check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dPO4beZ6sI&feature=related - that's "only" 1000 players, and yet... holy crap.

Well I guess after so many people suggested the same fix to this "supposed flaw" that the OP brought up. That is to cap the amount of players allowed on a map, from each server, to between 200 & 250 (no sharding). Then it is pretty obvious that the problem has been brought up during testing and is dealt with. Heck, I'd be surprised if it wasn't, because even I thought about this potential issue and solution, last year when ArenaNet started throwing around that 500 per map number.

Originally posted by bossalinie

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

There is a maximum of  500 players allowed in each of the 4 areas, now imagine that me and my friends march intoo a zone with an army of 400. .. then none of the 2 other servers can get enough people in that zone to defend anything...

 

On top of that most people will probably want to fight in the middle zone...  which makes that zone easilly overpopulated... and when the zone is full, noboddy can tresspass through it to other zones...   I think the 500 people/zone max will call out for a lot of frustrations, when there is an important battle going on and people can't join it...

 

 

The issue has plagued MMOs for years and is still current. 

It's the main reason why new MMOs focus on BG/Warzone/Warfronts, where controlling populations is managable. Cause nobody wants this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjhwdQ0ReLg

 

 

Should be no cap at all. Gives us try open world PvP battles.

I dont think you guys realize how small a server really is.

This isnt like the old days of MMOS with 3,000 people on the Merlin server. GW2 will most likely go with what most mmo servers go with today. Heavy servers are barely over 1k players. So most servers will only have about 500 to 1k on them.

And between other forms of PvP, and the PvE  only a handfull will be there at any givin time.

Originally posted by Thorbrand

Originally posted by bossalinie

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Should be no cap at all. Gives us try open world PvP battles.

That's probably the goal.  It's more a matter of current level of network technology and player hardware limiting what is possible.

I can only imagine the tears and rage if servers fail to hold 500 players in  PVP and game crashes or runs horribly with so many players running around. A lot of MMOS have made tall claims before like WAR and AOC but never delieverd when it comes to large number of players in PVP zones.

The cap as an attempt to solve problems also creates problems.

I have seen several 500+ player battles even in games like shadowbane that at peak barely topped 1000-1400 players on a server at its height. Guildwars 2 in a very real way will have to face this head on and right out of the gate too boot.

WvW isnt for everyone, lots prefere the BGs or Arena style pvp. You guys make it sound like that the entire server is going to play WvW at the same time. And its just not going to be like that.

Some will Pvp, some will WvW and some will Pve. Even with a Power orb raid or something, theres always ppl that are doing other stuff. I really doubt that this will be an issue at all

Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

I can only imagine the tears and rage if servers fail to hold 500 players in  PVP and game crashes or runs horribly with so many players running around. A lot of MMOS have made tall claims before like WAR and AOC but never delieverd when it comes to large number of players in PVP zones.

To be fair, technology is contstantly improving and NCSoft published games do tend to have outstanding net and server code.  I believe the claim is possible, but it's going to take some really skilled programmers to pull off.  This is mainly to do with client-side coding I would think.  Cloudifying servers can help significantly on the server side.

http://muchdifferent.com/?page=game-pikkotekk-pikkoserver

These are the people that made the 1000 player FPS recently and if you read through how they accompished it, it was with some pretty clever "cloudy" server code, placing single threads on multiple cores.  The 1000 player FPS was done on a quad core server.

Originally posted by killion81

Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

I can only imagine the tears and rage if servers fail to hold 500 players in  PVP and game crashes or runs horribly with so many players running around. A lot of MMOS have made tall claims before like WAR and AOC but never delieverd when it comes to large number of players in PVP zones.

 

To be fair, technology is contstantly improving and NCSoft published games do tend to have outstanding net and server code.  I believe the claim is possible, but it's going to take some really skilled programmers to pull off.  This is mainly to do with client-side coding I would think.  Cloudifying servers can help significantly on the server side.

 

http://muchdifferent.com/?page=game-pikkotekk-pikkoserver

 

These are the people that made the 1000 player FPS recently and if you read through how they accompished it, it was with some pretty clever "cloudy" server code, placing single threads on multiple cores.  The 1000 player FPS was done on a quad core server.

Is GW2 using same technology? it might be possible but remember once you make a claim like this, it sticks for ever and todays MMO gamers have this habit of rubbing it in and not let it go. ;) So IMO Anet should just not say things which they might regret later because i am really looking forward to GW2 release.

Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

Originally posted by killion81

Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

I can only imagine the tears and rage if servers fail to hold 500 players in  PVP and game crashes or runs horribly with so many players running around. A lot of MMOS have made tall claims before like WAR and AOC but never delieverd when it comes to large number of players in PVP zones.

 

To be fair, technology is contstantly improving and NCSoft published games do tend to have outstanding net and server code.  I believe the claim is possible, but it's going to take some really skilled programmers to pull off.  This is mainly to do with client-side coding I would think.  Cloudifying servers can help significantly on the server side.

 

http://muchdifferent.com/?page=game-pikkotekk-pikkoserver

 

These are the people that made the 1000 player FPS recently and if you read through how they accompished it, it was with some pretty clever "cloudy" server code, placing single threads on multiple cores.  The 1000 player FPS was done on a quad core server.

Is GW2 using same technology? it might be possible but remember once you make a claim like this, it sticks for ever and todays MMO gamers have this habit of rubbing it in and not let it go. ;) So IMO Anet should just not say things which they might regret later because i am really looking forward to GW2 release.

I doubt they're using the same technology, but NCSoft has had some pretty solid net and server code over time.  L2 had some pretty huge keep seiges, although they were accompanied by lag (I didn't experience these, but a good friend speaks rather fondly of them).  I'm just saying that it's possible that ANet actually has programmers that are clever enough to facilitate 500 person battles within the current level of technology.  Only time will tell if that is actually the case or not, but I'm not writing it off as impossible.

However, GW2 does give me the "too good to be true" feeling, so I will contain my hype until I get to actually experience what ANet has built.

We have zero idea if the "caps" are soft caps or hard caps, or how a hard cap would be handled. All MMOs have a soft cap before performance issues become serious and server stability becomes an issue.  Arenanet have been upfront about capacity expectations. I think the numbers they are throwing around are high enough to make it unlikely that the caps will be reached very often, if at all.

I think a lot of it depends on what the over all server population caps are intended to be as well. If it's the typical 3k to 5k range, it's hard to imagine WvW capacity being reached often, if at all. As much as many of us are salivating over WvW, there are still likely to be a lot more people who rarely enter WvW than people who frequently enter WvW. If there are hard caps and those caps are reached, those that are decicated WvW players may stick around in a queue, but those who are more casual about it are likely to just go do something else until the capacity issues resolve themselves.

With way point travel and the extensive system of portals, it's not like you'll waste twenty minutes getting to Lion's Arch, only to find entry to The Mists barred and yourself facing another 20 minute voyage to get back to your PvE content.

Another missing piece of the puzzle is exactly how one enters The Mists and where they arrive. We know there is a portal in Lion's Arch, but does it transport you to a single, safe hub from which you can make use of waypoints to travel to friendly destinations? Can you directly chose a particular waypoint whenyou first enter the portal?

If waypoints are available in The Mists, it may be possible to bypass areas that have reached the population cap, rather than being bottle necked by an invasion to your server's borderlands.

There are too many questions at this point before the potential concern the OP raised becomes an actual concern.

u will never see 500 players next to u in the map. first the map are extremely Big, 

there is event everywhere down to 1 player to 100 all sprend out over the map, while u battle 20 player on a event , there is probably 100  other player attacking the  keep with siege weapon and while other player are doing smaller event somewhere else.

its wont be a showdown in the middles or else u will just lose,

Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

Originally posted by killion81

Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

I can only imagine the tears and rage if servers fail to hold 500 players in  PVP and game crashes or runs horribly with so many players running around. A lot of MMOS have made tall claims before like WAR and AOC but never delieverd when it comes to large number of players in PVP zones.

 

To be fair, technology is contstantly improving and NCSoft published games do tend to have outstanding net and server code.  I believe the claim is possible, but it's going to take some really skilled programmers to pull off.  This is mainly to do with client-side coding I would think.  Cloudifying servers can help significantly on the server side.

 

http://muchdifferent.com/?page=game-pikkotekk-pikkoserver

 

These are the people that made the 1000 player FPS recently and if you read through how they accompished it, it was with some pretty clever "cloudy" server code, placing single threads on multiple cores.  The 1000 player FPS was done on a quad core server.

Is GW2 using same technology? it might be possible but remember once you make a claim like this, it sticks for ever and todays MMO gamers have this habit of rubbing it in and not let it go. ;) So IMO Anet should just not say things which they might regret later because i am really looking forward to GW2 release.

It's likely that Arenanet are using something similar. If Arenanet has managed to bring the server technology for GW1, which allowed for no downtime for maintenance and hot patching, into GW2 with it's persistant world shards, then that would signal a very robust and adaptable server infrastructure. (The fact that WvW transitions at the end of each two week period do not appear to take place during a scheduled maintenance window, but rather occur in a matter of minutes, lead me to believe that they have indeed ported over and improved on the GW1 server technology and that this will be a game with out regularly scheduled maintenance windows. This is only possible if game servers can be efficiently moved around between physical servers).

I guess it then comes down to how fine an area can be broken off and moved around in such a way. Is it a region? A zone? Or is each zone broken into smaller pieces that can be load balanced individually?

I don't think it would be wise to plan for situation A hoping that situation B never happens. If it can go wrong, it will go wrong.

Anyways, unless ANet is completely retarded they'll have a solution for this.