Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by BenedictXV

Anyhow for the OP : The first signal i got that you were seriously flawed is when you posted this thread!

When all else fails attack the OP.../facepalm

OP surely said to himself : When all else fails, attack the multi-multi-million dollars seriously flawed game. Once he figured out he got to 50 in 2 days and figured out there was nothing much to do cuz it's a NEW GAME??? /raging!

My point is that OP in here is just well... trolling? In argumentativ text you learn to be biased, wich is exactly what OP is doing. First of, the title, he use a lot of superlative (or at least that's what we call it in my language) like multi-multi-million dollars and seriously flawed. So he wanted attention. Then he goes on saying that the game is SERIOUSLY flawed because he can't sit on a chair wherever he wants and cuz he can't see 25 thousands raptors in the same 2 sq feet of desert like in WoW. So he gotta be trolling us to say something like that, or he doesnt have any idea of the power of the words seriously and flawed in the same sentence.

If he got like : My impression on SWTOR and got on with the goods and the bads i'd be good about it, but this is just plain stupid and bashing a game with a seriously good potential!

Originally posted by BenedictXV

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by BenedictXV

Anyhow for the OP : The first signal i got that you were seriously flawed is when you posted this thread!

When all else fails attack the OP.../facepalm

My point is that OP in here is just well... trolling?

If thats a problem to you, then don't feed the troll.  Move on and let people discuss why they hate the game.

Originally posted by keithian

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TyvolusNext

Originally posted by metatronic
The game just isnt addictive like swg was. Theres no community as everyone is playimg with thier heads buried in the quests and you cant even look for a guild in game like eq2.

If you goto biowares career webpage they have an new opening for some kind of social engineer lol.. A little late for that bioware when that guy should of been in the loop from day one. If this game even had a little bit of what Rap Koster did in swg it would of been good. They needed to mix sandbox elememts with themepark not just make it ome big theme park with boring rides.

how'd it get thru the entire beta process with no one ever mentioning the social aspect was missing...not trying to be rhetorical here at all, I mean seriously how can such a thing happen ?

The beta communities are usually more tightly knit and social than the post launch communities.

Also, from my personal experience, BioWare rarely listened to tester feedback. When you combine that with the sheer amount of hyped fanboys who would troll anyone who even attempted to suggest that SWTOR wasn't perfect, you'll have a general idea of why this game is the way it is.

In my opinion, one of the most detrimental things in game development are the fanboys. Not only do they stiffle any feedback they percieve as negative but they also give developers a false sense of security.

Your post is absurd. First off, Bioware has listenened. They listened in beta, made changes, and they are listening now and are making changes like the upcoming UI improvements. Maybe they ahven't listened fast enough. Maybe some of these things should have been updated upon release. To say they aren't listening is someone being blind to reality. As far as your fanboi comment, show me links where anyone said this game is perfect. Stop using fanboi as an acronym for anyone who likes the game. If you don't like it, good for you. Just because someone likes it isn't a bad thing if that is what they enjoy. 

I said "from my personal experience." Shortly before the game went live, BioWare removed the "match to chest" option for gear color. There was a huge post on the forums asking them to bring it back. Never happened. Apparently it's coming back in 1.2. The lifelessness of the planets has been commented on for over a year and a half, since the very first batch of testing squadrons. The dreadful UI had lots of feedback months before beta ended. There are numerous other issues that were ignored but I'm not going to list them all. I'm sure that some issues were addressed in some way but a lot was ignored.

Re-read my last sentence. I'm not talking about all fans of the game, rather I was talking about a specific group of people who take offense to any criticism, justified or not, and troll the poster. I have no issues with people who enjoy the game. Hell, if you truly like it and are having a good time, I'm happy for you. What I do have an issue with is people who dismiss and troll valuable feedback threads because the person giving the feedback dared to say something negative about the game. That's what I meant by "fanboys."

As a matter of fact, a true fan of the game would want the game to get better and what better way than proving developers with feedback and constructive criticism? That's why I said that people like that are detrimental to the game's development because they stiffle feedback.

Originally posted by BenedictXV

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by BenedictXV

Anyhow for the OP : The first signal i got that you were seriously flawed is when you posted this thread!

When all else fails attack the OP.../facepalm

OP surely said to himself : When all else fails, attack the multi-multi-million dollars seriously flawed game. Once he figured out he got to 50 in 2 days and figured out there was nothing much to do cuz it's a NEW GAME??? /raging!

My point is that OP in here is just well... trolling? In argumentativ text you learn to be biased, wich is exactly what OP is doing. First of, the title, he use a lot of superlative (or at least that's what we call it in my language) like multi-multi-million dollars and seriously flawed. So he wanted attention. Then he goes on saying that the game is SERIOUSLY flawed because he can't sit on a chair wherever he wants and cuz he can't see 25 thousands raptors in the same 2 sq feet of desert like in WoW. So he gotta be trolling us to say something like that, or he doesnt have any idea of the power of the words seriously and flawed in the same sentence.

If he got like : My impression on SWTOR and got on with the goods and the bads i'd be good about it, but this is just plain stupid and bashing a game with a seriously good potential!

I have a huge feeling he was joking while being serious lol. Least that's how I took it.

Though what's interesting is not posting, I would say just laugh but apparently that gets you banned(happened to me and now thinking back I deserved it but the thread/op is funny IMO).

I'm sure the way the OP of this thread if he still is paying lookin at post saw yours an laughed or actually felt even better.

You know how people who post negative reviews would feel if no one posted in there, or not even a negative review but something bashing the game...and didn't even get attention, they wouldn't even feel like they've "won." 

I notice the ones that really bash the games and gush the game have the most posts/pages.

When if it was the opposite, could turn out to be better possibly.

Now I have had moments were I've just bashed the op for bringing up something I disagree with but when I look back at it I feel like "Did this help the game I like out or just prove that my only counter against his claim is to insult him/her?"

Just how it is because clearly if I was just a new guy trying to look at the game and I see a post like yours I'd really think that there could be something with the game. Though I'll admit that's 50/50 but it is a chance you know?

Originally posted by noncley

For me, it was something very simple. I arrived on Hutta and saw the incredibly detailed if lifeless scenery. That wasn't a problem, I expected that from EQ2. I didn't even mind the fact that it wasn't really scenery at all, just a series of pathways; I knew this was going to be a very limited themepark game anyway. No, what got me was that when I returned to the cantina to hand in my mission, I couldn't sit down on a chair. Now, I don't know how difficult that would be to programme or animate but I do recognise that somewhere along the line, someone in Bioware or EA said: 'Siting? Too expensive to develop. Fuck them if they want to sit down, they can squat on the floor. I don't remember Han and Chewie sitting down, do you?'. And it was then I realised this game was bad.

What the first indication to you - either in a statement or press release issued before the game or in your own personal experience during beta or post-launch - that this game was deeply flawed?

I agree.  The point when i knew the game was not an mmorpg but a popcorn video game was when i checked out the AH for the first time.  Millions of dollars in development and that was the AH?  Mess of a game.  I can see why it's popular for those new to mmorpgs, but anyone who's been around in this genre and still plays this game must really love Star Wars.  

And that's fine with me.  Play the game you enjoy.  But I paid first month, and there's my 2 cents :)

When they spent a year doing nothing but talking about their precious voice acting and storyline I knew this wouldn't be a real MMO. Also, when they said Bioware was doing it. Bioware makes singleplayer games, and it shows with SWTOR.

I knew this game was going to suck when they moved in Warhammer Online people to make BioWare Austin.

Seeing the first actual gameplay videos.

Originally posted by dubyahite
@graygreen

I've played MMOs for more than ten years. I'm not a very big star wars fan (I like it, but am not a huge SW fan) and I love this game.


How do you explain that?


Also, how do you explain paying for a month after all that you just said?

Very easy to explain actually.  I paid for the game which gave first month.  That was all.  Glad folks enjoy their game and more power to them :)

Most mmorpg vets dislike this game for specific reasons such as a lack of an open, persistent world.  That explains the second part.  

I'll preface this by saying, in my opinion the game is flawed, but still a very good game. It does what they say it should do pretty good, even excellent in some parts.

So, first indication that the game was flawed...

Five years ago when BioWare Austin was founded and all the developers EVER talked about in interviews was World of Warcraft.

No one talks that much about one game without it being their life, both at home and work.

When the previously announced "spring 2011 release" mysteriously became 2011.  They acted like they never announced spring 2011 at all.  Their mysterious lack of communicating to the public still continues till this day.

When they changed direction mid development cycle. But it was set off initially with they hilarious claims that you'd never do a raid more than once and that it will be very story driven with so many options that you'd never see the same content twice. Funnily enough they soon realized how incomprehenisbly unfeasble that is, but it made it pretty clear that already done content would be lacklustre.

Originally posted by Kimmyboy

So many things in the past that "showed" a red flag PRE publishment.

EALouse "at least it will have good sound". I think everyone should remember this guy and apologize to him.

The fact EA announced the Dec 20/22 launch on a ...Saturday, - the day after - Blizzard decided to postpone D3.

Mythic people joining the project.

Launching 5 days before Christmas.

EA desperate attacks on the subscription based market of the past.

Voice over sold as a game play feature and the invention of a fourth pillar that never existed in MMORPG's.

Painted backgrounds you'll never reach in demo play.

NDA up to and including the day before launch.

If you didn't see it by then, I guess no use following this game industry.

 

Post publishment: mmorpg.com giving the game 87% and a link to a green haired Lady to promote it. Backed up by a daily promo talk.

 

I wish you were able to 'like' posts on this site.

Shitty Graphics/Animations and constant banging on about VO, these two being the only things we got to see almost right up to its release. Just goes to show it takes actual talent to make a good game, not just massive amounts of money.

Originally posted by red_cruiser

I knew this game was going to suck when they moved in Warhammer Online people to make BioWare Austin.

Mythic is probably the only good thing about this game. At least they have a lot of MMO experience. Bioware does not. We all know Mythic was brought in to save a sinking ship.

Originally posted by bobfish

I'll preface this by saying, in my opinion the game is flawed, but still a very good game. It does what they say it should do pretty good

I wouldn't say that. They call it an MMO and it doesn't do the whole MMO thing very well. Compared to singleplayer games, it's pretty good. Not great, because none of the quests you do have an impact on the game world (becuase it's "persistent") but its a decent story. But its not a singleplayer game is it? Its billed as an MMO, and it absolutely sucks at being one.

I was worried by the push that this game represented toward even MORE of this philosophy of "Soloing . . . Together."

I can't explain why WoW has been so successful, but what I can say as a longtime non-WoW mmorpger is that since WoW's success, virtually every new game that I have tried has adopted this philosophy: that what gamers "really" want is to solo and to quest. Every one of those games felt relatively lonely and boring on some level -- to me -- and I wasn't surprised by the fact that all of them more or less failed.

Perhaps the reason so many MMOs are failing isn't because they fail to live up to WoW, but because they are trying to.

What I miss are the pre-WoW days where MMOs were more focused on player driven content. I think I could count the number of quests I actually bothered with in SWG, and yet the game kept me infinitely entertained. There is something about quests that seem so fundamentally artificial to me . . . the way they try to tell you that you are the most important person in the world while they are telling swarms of other players the exact same thing.

SWTOR just took solo questing to the ultimate level. If the game doesn't succeed, I think that alone is ample evidence that questing does not represent the heart of what makes a MMO successful.

Originally posted by Jjix

I was worried by the push that this game represented toward even MORE of this philosophy of "Soloing . . . Together."

 

I can't explain why WoW has been so successful, but what I can say as a longtime non-WoW mmorpger is that since WoW's success, virtually every new game that I have tried has adopted this philosophy: that what gamers "really" want is to solo and to quest. Every one of those games felt relatively lonely and boring on some level -- to me -- and I wasn't surprised by the fact that all of them more or less failed.

 

Perhaps the reason so many MMOs are failing isn't because they fail to live up to WoW, but because they are trying to.

 

What I miss are the pre-WoW days where MMOs were more focused on player driven content. I think I could count the number of quests I actually bothered with in SWG, and yet the game kept me infinitely entertained. There is something about quests that seem so fundamentally artificial to me . . . the way they try to tell you that you are the most important person in the world, while they are telling swarms of other players the exact same thing.

 

SWTOR just took solo questing to the ultimate level. If the game doesn't succeed, I think that alone is ample evidence that questing does not represent the heart of what makes a MMO successful.

Agreed completely. Sadly, there are more non MMO fans who want to solo and quest while paying extra money to do so, than there are people who want a social world. Publishers only want to copy the big success. Sadly they don't realize that WoW's success was a total fluke.