Originally posted by Robsolf

Originally posted by AcmeGamer

Originally posted by matraque

What would you like to see added next?

I personally would like to see them iterate on space.  SWG was a big pile of garbage, but space was really fun.

 

             Even if I don't consider it a success myself due to how badly it was done, I'll consider it successful when they are out of the red as far as how much they've invested in this game. Then even if I don't think it was done well I will have to concede that they have been successful regardless of my opinion. So ask again once I see that they've recovered the total cost for this monster and are in the black, and then I can ramble on about how many things they should or could still do right to fix this game and not make it no better then the rating you give SWG.

 

It's refreshing to see someone that doesn't like the game:

-be polite about it.

-not make a bunch of crap up about how the servers are all dead and guilds have lost 80% of their players.

Thank you!

Back to the OP.  Yes... Space would be good.  Anything that involves your ship being something more than storage space and a rest XP instance.  I like the space missions more than most people, but they get dull and repetitive.

Next... REAL social hubs.  Right now, the game just seems like a collection of battlefronts and war zones.  Take a game like LotRO, where you have the gloom and despair of Dark Delvings, and you have... the Prancing Pony, the Party Tree in Hobbiton, etc..  Those contrasts don't really exist in TOR, IMO.

   I've wanted to see good debate about the game for months but honestly between those who just hate it for being Star Wars and those who are so fanatical about liking it just because it is Star Wars, it has been pretty impossible to have talks about the game.

  I truly wanted to love the game myself, other wise I'd not have bothered to purchase the $150.00 collectors edition nor two of the $80.00 versions for family members. There is just soo much wrong with this game mechanically speaking, graphically, UI, bug wise etc to shake a stick at. In my opinion their first serious error was purchasing the crappy HeroEngine software from Simutronics.

 I'd love to see them get a handle on the bugs, make the worlds more life like, say like LotROs is. Space Combat for me is a write off since they really need to start from the begining and design a whole new space combat system. I don't think their current mechanics support it honestly. I don't think they built the infrastructure to support a true space mmorpg. So anything that they do do, is going to come off as rather bandaid like, if that makes sense. 

 Who knows, I'd love to be pleasantly surprised in six months to see this game go a long way from where it is currently. I just know that currently once my 90 days reoccuring sub ends in April, that I'll stop playing. I will keep tabs on it like I do every game that I've ever played, in the hope for improvement to draw me back. I'd been really wanting to invest my free time in a science fiction mmorpg as a good change of pace from fantasy for some years. I love fantasy worlds but a good scfi game world would be nice. 

Originally posted by matraque

What would you like to see added next?

I personally would like to see them iterate on space.  SWG was a big pile of garbage, but space was really fun.

You clearly never played SWG when it was released. It was a much better game than SWTOR which quite frankly I found to be boring and quit playing before my first month was up. Which is a first for me as I like to get my monies worth from a game even if I'm not overly enjoying it.

Anyway; I hope SWTOR does well and I wish the players all the fun they can muster in what is basically a single player game. As for me, I'll go back to playing a real mmorpg (Rift). And maybe in a couple of years I'll return to SWTOR like I have just done to the f2p STO and find it actually enjoyable as I'm now so finding STO.

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by cinos

Originally posted by Kaocan

Originally posted by Shazknee

Originally posted by matraque

 

  SWTOR is a big pile of garbage, and space really sucks.

Fixed it for you.

 

And success? to whom? single player gamers and the extreme casual crowd? I guess.

I would say to the members of the 3 guilds I am in right now, each with over 300 members, each with an average 45 people on at any given time. To those people who are working thier way through hardmodes and nightmaremodes as we speak, weekly raiding scheduled already and officers putting together events almost daily to gear up the lower level members. 

I would say SWTOR is a success for all of them, you know, the people who used ot be hardcore raiders in other games and now run progression based raiding guilds in SWTOR. I see them every day, so I know they are there, unlike your assumption you posted.

No offence, but I have heard this so many times now and it always ended the same way; a month later the guild is deserted.

Maybe one of your 3 will be the exception though. :p

Good guild leaders will have busy active guilds

Bad or absent guild leaders will have guilds fall apart

Same as any other MMORPG

This is exactly the truth. My 3 guilds are on a different server/faction form each other. I expect one of them to thrive and continue for a very long time. THe guild leader and his officers are extremely dedicated. One I am unsure of, its mostly the members taking the initiative on events and raids, this usually doesn't end well unless the guld leader drops off and one of the active members takes over for him. The third one is right in the middle of the two, the guild leader is a little inexperienced as the leader it seems. He has been a raiding guild officer many times out, but this is his first time being at the top, so we will see on that one. 

And yes, we all know the story of the hardcore raiding guilds and how short lived they can be in ANY game. Point stands though, SWTOR does have them, it isnt all solo players and casuals. 

"read topic title"

LOL, its like say most F2P games don't have P2W CS, keep kidding yourself :)

Originally posted by matraque

What would you like to see added next?

I personally would like to see them iterate on space.  SWG was a big pile of garbage, but space was really fun.

lol yea swg was a big  pile of garbage with MUCH better crafting, player cities, politics, 36+ professions you could mix and match.. you could actually sit in a chair!!  10x deeper space system with multiperson ships, space professions, and much more.  a sandbox world that knocks the snot out of this lifeless linear crap that a 5 year old could play, i could go on and  on.

the only thing swtor has going for it especially in regards to vs swg... is graphics and cutscenes.. thats literally it.

I would bet your one of these wow gamers that have never played something like daoc, swg, eq, or planetside and u seriously just dont know what your missing

Originally posted by Kaocan

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by cinos

Originally posted by Kaocan

Originally posted by Shazknee

snip

I would say to the members of the 3 guilds I am in right now, each with over 300 members, each with an average 45 people on at any given time. To those people who are working thier way through hardmodes and nightmaremodes as we speak, weekly raiding scheduled already and officers putting together events almost daily to gear up the lower level members. 

I would say SWTOR is a success for all of them, you know, the people who used ot be hardcore raiders in other games and now run progression based raiding guilds in SWTOR. I see them every day, so I know they are there, unlike your assumption you posted.

No offence, but I have heard this so many times now and it always ended the same way; a month later the guild is deserted.

Maybe one of your 3 will be the exception though. :p

Good guild leaders will have busy active guilds

Bad or absent guild leaders will have guilds fall apart

Same as any other MMORPG

This is exactly the truth. My 3 guilds are on a different server/faction form each other. I expect one of them to thrive and continue for a very long time. THe guild leader and his officers are extremely dedicated. One I am unsure of, its mostly the members taking the initiative on events and raids, this usually doesn't end well unless the guld leader drops off and one of the active members takes over for him. The third one is right in the middle of the two, the guild leader is a little inexperienced as the leader it seems. He has been a raiding guild officer many times out, but this is his first time being at the top, so we will see on that one. 

And yes, we all know the story of the hardcore raiding guilds and how short lived they can be in ANY game. Point stands though, SWTOR does have them, it isnt all solo players and casuals. 

So things aren't quite as rosy as you initially painted them then. :p

Do me a favour though, come back in a month and let us know if the guilds are still thriving or not. Like I said, they could be the exception for guilds in ToR.

Originally posted by VikingLegion

Originally posted by matraque

What would you like to see added next?

I personally would like to see them iterate on space.  SWG was a big pile of garbage, but space was really fun.

lol yea swg was a big  pile of garbage with MUCH better crafting, player cities, politics, 36+ professions you could mix and match.. you could actually sit in a chair!!  10x deeper space system with multiperson ships, space professions, and much more.  a sandbox world that knocks the snot out of this lifeless linear crap that a 5 year old could play, i could go on and  on.

the only thing swtor has going for it especially in regards to vs swg... is graphics and cutscenes.. thats literally it.

I would bet your one of these wow gamers that have never played something like daoc, swg, eq, or planetside and u seriously just dont know what your missing

 

Viking,

I agree! Well maybe the age of sanbox is dying? I dont think so. Archeage is looking to be a good contender for million of subcribers but, it might fail becouse of its eastern afluence. What we need is a game where you decide your character and your story and not let developers chose your role before you even began playing the game.

Crafting??? I like to think of making a sandwich as an example. When you want sa good sandwich you head out  on the journey to buy quality ingredients, make the perfect combo and enjoy. Today, you drive down to subway, tell them whay you want,pay and your done.

dont get me wrong this game doesnt need a lot to be the game people want ,they just need to sacrifice some ram for fps setting gees!,also pvp in ilum got to BE FIXED PERMANENTLY.add a new jno attack  neutral zone that player on both side cant attack and put a penalty for those going back in there .so say you kill 4 people you go hide in neutral zone no issue nobody can attack etc .but if you go in your camp zone then everything is resetted!why would we want this simple so that when you pvp you pvp!also add a balancing system so that equal number are always in there

double post bug!

Originally posted by AcmeGamer

Originally posted by matraque

What would you like to see added next?

I personally would like to see them iterate on space.  SWG was a big pile of garbage, but space was really fun.

 

             Even if I don't consider it a success myself due to how badly it was done, I'll consider it successful when they are out of the red as far as how much they've invested in this game. Then even if I don't think it was done well I will have to concede that they have been successful regardless of my opinion. So ask again once I see that they've recovered the total cost for this monster and are in the black, and then I can ramble on about how many things they should or could still do right to fix this game and not make it no better then the rating you give SWG.

 

They have to be out of the red already. Theres no way they could have spent as much money on this game that is rumored.

1: They didnt make their own in house game engine. They used the hero engine that you or I could go online and download and make a game ourselves. Its a great engine for indie companies to play around with, but not for a major game company to use.

2: V.O'ers are not that costly, unless you have a high profile actor doing them. To my knowlage TOR doesnt. 

3: just look at the game its so streamlined, not a whole lot of steping outside the box going on. With that cuts down on experimental costs.

The cost rumor is the only innovative feature of this MMO. Just throw this title aside for a second. If theres a rumor that a game costs 500 mil. That in itself will raise intrest in a game, even if thats the only thing you know about it. Back to tor theres no way they spent what is rumored on it. Its a bargin bin game, made as cheap as possible to fleice the mmo player base yet again.  

Originally posted by o2jpl

Originally posted by VikingLegion

Originally posted by matraque

What would you like to see added next?

I personally would like to see them iterate on space.  SWG was a big pile of garbage, but space was really fun.

lol yea swg was a big  pile of garbage with MUCH better crafting, player cities, politics, 36+ professions you could mix and match.. you could actually sit in a chair!!  10x deeper space system with multiperson ships, space professions, and much more.  a sandbox world that knocks the snot out of this lifeless linear crap that a 5 year old could play, i could go on and  on.

the only thing swtor has going for it especially in regards to vs swg... is graphics and cutscenes.. thats literally it.

I would bet your one of these wow gamers that have never played something like daoc, swg, eq, or planetside and u seriously just dont know what your missing

 

Viking,

I agree! Well maybe the age of sanbox is dying? I dont think so. Archeage is looking to be a good contender for million of subcribers but, it might fail becouse of its eastern afluence. What we need is a game where you decide your character and your story and not let developers chose your role before you even began playing the game.

Crafting??? I like to think of making a sandwich as an example. When you want sa good sandwich you head out  on the journey to buy quality ingredients, make the perfect combo and enjoy. Today, you drive down to subway, tell them whay you want,pay and your done.

I hope not!  I love sandbox MMO, and agree wish SWTOR was one. 

Why would eastern influence make a game fail?  I am eagerly anticipating the US release of ArcheAge.  Looks to be very close to what Im looking for, I hope the execution is as well as the concept.

Originally posted by AcmeGamer

Originally posted by Robsolf

Originally posted by AcmeGamer

Originally posted by matraque

What would you like to see added next?

I personally would like to see them iterate on space.  SWG was a big pile of garbage, but space was really fun.

 

             Even if I don't consider it a success myself due to how badly it was done, I'll consider it successful when they are out of the red as far as how much they've invested in this game. Then even if I don't think it was done well I will have to concede that they have been successful regardless of my opinion. So ask again once I see that they've recovered the total cost for this monster and are in the black, and then I can ramble on about how many things they should or could still do right to fix this game and not make it no better then the rating you give SWG.

 

It's refreshing to see someone that doesn't like the game:

-be polite about it.

-not make a bunch of crap up about how the servers are all dead and guilds have lost 80% of their players.

Thank you!

Back to the OP.  Yes... Space would be good.  Anything that involves your ship being something more than storage space and a rest XP instance.  I like the space missions more than most people, but they get dull and repetitive.

Next... REAL social hubs.  Right now, the game just seems like a collection of battlefronts and war zones.  Take a game like LotRO, where you have the gloom and despair of Dark Delvings, and you have... the Prancing Pony, the Party Tree in Hobbiton, etc..  Those contrasts don't really exist in TOR, IMO.

 

   I've wanted to see good debate about the game for months but honestly between those who just hate it for being Star Wars and those who are so fanatical about liking it just because it is Star Wars, it has been pretty impossible to have talks about the game.

 

  I truly wanted to love the game myself, other wise I'd not have bothered to purchase the $150.00 collectors edition nor two of the $80.00 versions for family members. There is just soo much wrong with this game mechanically speaking, graphically, UI, bug wise etc to shake a stick at. In my opinion their first serious error was purchasing the crappy HeroEngine software from Simutronics.

 

 I'd love to see them get a handle on the bugs, make the worlds more life like, say like LotROs is. Space Combat for me is a write off since they really need to start from the begining and design a whole new space combat system. I don't think their current mechanics support it honestly. I don't think they built the infrastructure to support a true space mmorpg. So anything that they do do, is going to come off as rather bandaid like, if that makes sense. 

 

 Who knows, I'd love to be pleasantly surprised in six months to see this game go a long way from where it is currently. I just know that currently once my 90 days reoccuring sub ends in April, that I'll stop playing. I will keep tabs on it like I do every game that I've ever played, in the hope for improvement to draw me back. I'd been really wanting to invest my free time in a science fiction mmorpg as a good change of pace from fantasy for some years. I love fantasy worlds but a good scfi game world would be nice. 

I really have to agree with all your points here.  Though I am not as upset as some and I never wished the game to fail from the begining like some.

I was never a Star Wars fan until a few weeks ago I haven't even seen any of the movies until a buddy of mine came over and showed me episodes 1 and 2 and I thought those were horrible!

I played in the beta enjoyed how fluid the game was and wanted to give Bioware my money knowing they produce some quality games and that's why I bought the game when it went live.  I was hesistant I didn't get the early start but I did enjoy the way they told the story.  Sure it got old I played 2 characters to 50 and 2 well into the 30's and after seeing the same planets over and over it felt just like any other game at that point.

I had about 4 friends follow me into the game and we had fun but for what the game does right it also has things it does wrong and I know it's Biowares first MMO and I really do hope for the die hard fans out there they fix some of the issues.  The one thing I don't understand is why people are "accepting" the issues the game has you're paying money for the company to keep the game going you need to voice your concerns on issues over and over again.

I played the game for 2 months, but I played it knowing it felt more to me like a multiplayer RPG and not an MMO.  The game isn't terrible by todays standards at all (although some of the bugs are insane like I still don't believe they fixed looting in normal mode operations).  I feel that they will eventually get some of the things that are wrong right but I also feel it may take them to long to fix it and I also feel that some of the things they just won't be able to fix like the space combat system.

To everyone who enjoys the game keep on enjoying it but don't blindly defend the game because you don't like when people have/had issues with it.  Voice your concerns and help make the game better, you pay money to play the game and you should have a better experience with less bugs!

Originally posted by darkhalf357x

Originally posted by o2jpl

Originally posted by VikingLegion

Originally posted by matraque

What would you like to see added next?

I personally would like to see them iterate on space.  SWG was a big pile of garbage, but space was really fun.

lol yea swg was a big  pile of garbage with MUCH better crafting, player cities, politics, 36+ professions you could mix and match.. you could actually sit in a chair!!  10x deeper space system with multiperson ships, space professions, and much more.  a sandbox world that knocks the snot out of this lifeless linear crap that a 5 year old could play, i could go on and  on.

the only thing swtor has going for it especially in regards to vs swg... is graphics and cutscenes.. thats literally it.

I would bet your one of these wow gamers that have never played something like daoc, swg, eq, or planetside and u seriously just dont know what your missing

 

Viking,

I agree! Well maybe the age of sanbox is dying? I dont think so. Archeage is looking to be a good contender for million of subcribers but, it might fail becouse of its eastern afluence. What we need is a game where you decide your character and your story and not let developers chose your role before you even began playing the game.

Crafting??? I like to think of making a sandwich as an example. When you want sa good sandwich you head out  on the journey to buy quality ingredients, make the perfect combo and enjoy. Today, you drive down to subway, tell them whay you want,pay and your done.

I hope not!  I love sandbox MMO, and agree wish SWTOR was one. 

Why would eastern influence make a game fail?  I am eagerly anticipating the US release of ArcheAge.  Looks to be very close to what Im looking for, I hope the execution is as well as the concept.

[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/21.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]

Perhaps I should have been clear. The game itself will not fail however it might fail to reach millions of subcribers. I'm confident (not sure how confident) that there is some player bias towards eastern mmos and extensive crafting scares away nimble minded.

E: in NA

I'm sorry, but how do you consider it to be a success this soon? I've been waiting for this game to launch for three years and to be completely honest at this point I'm really disapointed. I may be guilty of having expectations that were too high, but the BioWare/LA isn't completely off the hook IMO. 

My first character was a Marauder that has seen everything but HM Soa. It's a fun character to play, when I'm in an Operation, but outside of that there is nothing fun/unique to do. I've since made several alts, 41 Sniper, 32 Operative, 28 Assassin, 21 Powertech and 19 Mercenary. I lost interest in the storyline on my Marauder in the early 40's, the only quests I actually listened to were the class quests. On my Sniper I lost interest before even earning access to my ship. 

IMO, they spent too much time on the voice acting and not enough time on the actual interface, mechanics or items. The UI, from a mechanical standpoint is too clumsy and counterproductive. Only being able to have two panes open at any given time is about as agrivating as it gets in a game. Having one window disapear when you speak with a vendor is frustrating. The Market Place's "required" tabs is ridiculous when I just want to work for one specific thing. I'm happy they atleast fixed autosort in the banks. 

Game mechanics are still broken. On my Marauder, it's always fun hitting Smash, watching the CD reset and the Rage be removed only to be knocked back 1.5 seconds later and have the effect actually happen 20meters from where I pressed it. On my Sniper, I love keeping the high ground in Huttball, only to have Take Cover jump me down to the bottom level and STILL not have LOS on my target. The Take Cover mechanic in theory is a cool idea, but considering I have my own cover item, STOP making my character hop 30m to take cover behind a sandbag. There are dozens of broken, overthought(or under-thought) mechanics that need to be fixed. 

Too many load screens. I understand the idea behind having to get on an elevator to get to your ship at a city, but having to get on an elevator, run down a corridor, get in another elevator, run 50m to your ship only to have yet another load screen is ridiculous. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt with the load times. I just hope they fix the memory leaks.

The only reason I'm still playing is because I'm sick and tired of WoW and I paid for 6 months. At the rate they're going with bug and mechanics fixes, 6 months isn't enough time for them to keep my subscription money coming. 

I'm already looking forward to Titan and GW2 next.

I wouldn't call SWTOR an obvious success. It's initially a success in that it sold a lot of copies, but the success of an MMO depends entirely on whether there is retention, and since SWTOR has only been out for a little over a month, it's too soon to call it a success. From my own personal view, the servers are a lot less active on key play nights (Friday and Saturday nights, weekend days), with more than 75% hovering around Standard pop during those times. It's a far cry from the Heavy a nd Full I've seen from the first two weeks. The "new" servers? Never saw them above Light. I suspect SWTOR will drop to ~200k active subs come month 3 and never get any higher than that. Successful for most MMOs, sure, but not one that cost $200 million and needing 1 million active subs for a couple of years to break even.

I can't call it a success because I can still barely believe those numbers, any chatbox I go most people have played SW:TOR and then quit, even my real friends have and people still playing complain servers feel empty. I don't know how they could have retained 1.7m of 2m. I've probably almost talked to 300k who dropped it. 

Originally posted by ragz45

 

Go play vanguard and see just how good crafting can actually be.  Just because most mmo's fail to make crafting interesting, doesn't mean they all do.

(crafting in SWG was also great, but he can't exactly go try that out)

Some people also really didn't like the Vanguard crafting... It was too complex for some.

I don't really think you can label an MMORPG as an "obvious success" until it passes the test of time.  SWTOR was clearly intended to bring in subscriber revenue for a longish time period.  If it wasn't, it would have been easier to just make a single player game.

So even if the game makes back its investment...I don't think you can really call it a success until it succeeds in its original intent of bringing in long-term sub revenue.

Originally posted by montin

Originally posted by matraque

What would you like to see added next?

I personally would like to see them iterate on space.  SWG was a big pile of garbage, but space was really fun.

You clearly never played SWG when it was released. It was a much better game than SWTOR which quite frankly I found to be boring and quit playing before my first month was up. Which is a first for me as I like to get my monies worth from a game even if I'm not overly enjoying it.

 

Anyway; I hope SWTOR does well and I wish the players all the fun they can muster in what is basically a single player game. As for me, I'll go back to playing a real mmorpg (Rift). And maybe in a couple of years I'll return to SWTOR like I have just done to the f2p STO and find it actually enjoyable as I'm now so finding STO.

I beta tested SWG.  The game released broken with absolutly nothing to do.

Title should read.

Now that SWTOR is obviously a success at copying wow