Valve should sue Blizzard bec ause they are using DOTA in its map... lol Blizzard is fkn greedy... get over it wow makers we are tired of your shit

So funny people talking about Blizzard being greedy.  This isnt a suit for monetary action.  Blizzard is not suing Valve for money, a portion of their company, or even to trademark the name DoTA themselves.  If Blizzard wins the only thing that happens is that Valve doesnt get to have the name on trademark.  No money exchanges hands.  Its obvious that the name has meaning to the modder community and to Blizzard as well, but neither of them own it.  Now Valve is trying to take over the name and capitalize on it, for their own monetary benefit.  

Is it really that difficult to think of a name for your game without trying to take advantage of others work?

Would the game play any differently or ruin your enjoyment of it if the name isn't trademarked?

If anyone is being greedy it is obviously Valve.

Just so everybody knows, DotA was developed and popularized by three main guys.



Eul originally created and developed DotA. When the WCIII:Frozen Throne came out Eul abandoned DotA and a bunch of fans took it upon themselves to develop the map with the new tools in the expansion. While at this point there were many independent developers, one rose above the rest: Guinsoo.



Guinsoo's version, DotA: Allstars became the most popular format of the map by far and helped propel DotA to new levels of fame. Guinsoo did a lot of work expanding the game and organizing the community of DotA players which up until then had basically just been "the first 9 guys to join my custom game."



Guinsoo eventually stopped developing DotA: Allstars and directly handed the map off to Icefrog, the most recent developer. Icefrog did a bunch of work on his own and continued to foster the DotA community until 2009 when he quit. A year afterward the community's biggest gathering point, dota-allstars.com, shut down permanently. While people still play DotA, Icefrog's departure was essentially the death knell of the game.



These three: Eul, Guinsoo, and Icefrog were *THE* developers of DotA as it is today. Where are they now? Eul and Icefrog both work for Valve, and Guinsoo founded Riot games to create the super successful League of Legends based on the DotA formula. Unless Guinsoo doesn't want them to use the name DotA I think Eul and Icefrog have every right to use it now that they have a big time publishing deal--especially because EUL IS THE ONE WHO CREATED THE GAME AND NAMED IT DOTA IN THE FIRST PLACE.



If the question is "Who really owns the name 'DotA'?" I think it's pretty clear: the guys who made it, not the owners of the system they developed it within.

Originally posted by Deadlyne

So funny people talking about Blizzard being greedy.  This isnt a suit for monetary action.  Blizzard is not suing Valve for money, a portion of their company, or even to trademark the name DoTA themselves. 

It's simple. If Valve wins Blizzard will be unable to call their game "Blizzard DOTA". Not that much? Nope. Call it "Blizzard MOBA" for example and a good portion of people will be like "wtf is this?". Look at the Blizzard statements. There is no such words like "we want it to be free" or something. They are only talking that DOTA associated with Blizzard ("DOTA mark has become firmly associated in the mind of consumers with Blizzard"). Why do you think they will allow some modders to use it on other than Blizzard game engines? That will be the same "DOTA mark has become firmly associated in the mind of consumers with Blizzard" sue. Plus i'm almost sure that if they win Blizzard will trademark DotA instantly after that.

Valve has the right to trademark DotA because it's hired two of three DotA developers. While Blizzard in my opinion just wants to use something that doesn't belong to them. And that commie idea "it belongs to the community" is a BS (all you moneys belong to humanity).

Originally posted by IceAge

Yes, they never care! They never care to provide to IceFrog every tools he need. They never care to promote DOTA ! They never care to hold and promote championship's of DOTA! They never care to fund championship's ( and because of this, IceFrog won some big money ) ! They never care to re-configure their servers to hold more players to battle in DOTA over battle.net ! They never care about VALVE DOTA, when they announced it. They never care about the community now, when they are fighting to keep the DOTA name free of use.

Right..

 

After IceFrog quited DotA development in 2009 any development of DotA stopped. I wonder where were Blizzard? Probably they were just waiting to take it over for free and make that Blizzard DOTA. Because of DotA Blizzard sold lots of WC3 copies. So practically all that small twicks they made was just because they cared about their own game not about DotA devs, who developed it for 6 years (2003-2009) for free. One of the most popurar mod ever. For example Valve hired Counter-Strike devs after just about an year. And CS did for HL exactly the same thing that DotA did for WC3.

To be fair, Eul is given way more credit then he deserves.

All he really did was remake AoS and it spinoffs into a WC3 verision. He literally only made two version which one was a utter failure. 

DotA was not made by one person but many different mod creators over the course of its life time. It was created by the community itself.

Originally posted by Hycoo

Just so everybody knows, DotA was developed and popularized by three main guys.







Eul originally created and developed DotA. When the WCIII:Frozen Throne came out Eul abandoned DotA and a bunch of fans took it upon themselves to develop the map with the new tools in the expansion. While at this point there were many independent developers, one rose above the rest: Guinsoo.







Guinsoo's version, DotA: Allstars became the most popular format of the map by far and helped propel DotA to new levels of fame. Guinsoo did a lot of work expanding the game and organizing the community of DotA players which up until then had basically just been "the first 9 guys to join my custom game."







Guinsoo eventually stopped developing DotA: Allstars and directly handed the map off to Icefrog, the most recent developer. Icefrog did a bunch of work on his own and continued to foster the DotA community until 2009 when he quit. A year afterward the community's biggest gathering point, dota-allstars.com, shut down permanently. While people still play DotA, Icefrog's departure was essentially the death knell of the game.







These three: Eul, Guinsoo, and Icefrog were *THE* developers of DotA as it is today. Where are they now? Eul and Icefrog both work for Valve, and Guinsoo founded Riot games to create the super successful League of Legends based on the DotA formula. Unless Guinsoo doesn't want them to use the name DotA I think Eul and Icefrog have every right to use it now that they have a big time publishing deal--especially because EUL IS THE ONE WHO CREATED THE GAME AND NAMED IT DOTA IN THE FIRST PLACE.







If the question is "Who really owns the name 'DotA'?" I think it's pretty clear: the guys who made it, not the owners of the system they developed it within.

 

But didn't those guys accept the terms of use of the editor? Didn't they? If they did, they are legally bound by it. Is it right? I don't know but legally speaking they agreed to the terms of the WC3 editor when they created DOTA.

I can't believe all the anti-Blizzard people trying to crucify them for this.   The guys who made the DOTA formula do not deserve to keep the rights, sorry.   They used WC3 to make the idea in the first place.  They used Blizzards code and Blizzards art to make DOTA.  Would it be okay if I used SW:TOR to make my own MMO?  Just changed a couple things, give it a different name like SPACE FIGHTER 3000 and then later when a big name developer sees my little "Mod"  they hire me and we try to copyright SPACE FIGHTER 3000 even though I made it using someone elses hardwork?

You hate Blizzard so much for what reason?  Did they force you to buy their games?  Did they sign a contract with you that said they promised to never change any of their games unless you approve?  Seriously, the worst thing they have done is make hugely popular games that others try to immitate  Then they get the flak for a genre being stale when they had nothing to do with the developers and shareholders of other companies trying to clone their product simply because they want money.

Valve should have tried for the copyright when they started making their game, not wait until its finished so they can piss and moan about it and use the rabid ferver of the players waiting for DOTA2 to help legitimize their claim.

Stop fighting "the man" and supporting every single indie guy because its the cool thing to do.  Try looking at the facts and realize they used someone elses code and art to make their idea and now they want to profit from it.

Originally posted by niceguy3978

 

Don't accuse people of being tools, and then turn around and show that you don't understand what is actually going on.  Blizzard is not trying to trademark anything.  They are trying to keep valve from trademarking DOTA.  If valve successfully trademarks DOTA then nobody else will be able to use DOTA in their title.  Once again, Blizzard isn't trying to trademark DOTA if they wanted to do that, they could have done it 8 years ago, but they chose not to.  Now Valve wants to trademark DOTA and Blizzard is trying to stop them.

How stupid can you be to think Blizzard is doing this for anyone else's sake but their own.

If you think Blizzard isnt going to somehow try to bank solely on the "DotA" name then your ignorance is absurd. Even if they dont  try to trademark the name "DotA" as their own, atleast before preventing Valve from claiming the name. Just they havent done it yet because there was no legal way to prove DotA was their creation, what is the bet they will push the trademark envelope once their Blizzard DotA comes out?. Even if they dont do it at this point in time, they obviously want to ride on the coattails on the word "DotA" alone to hike up the box-sales of whatever MOBA / DotA based game they want to sell without having to pay royalties to Valve or Eul or IceFrog, you know the "creators" of DotA. Its as simple as that, only thing being that Valve got the original modders / creators of the DotA maps on their team and have invested a good deal of money on bringing up the DotA community to par in the recent past while Blizzard did nothing for DotA for more than half a decade other than sitting their ass on it and cashing in on the War3 sales due to the popularity of a fan-made mod while focusing developing / publicity efforts on WoW.

This is Exactly like (Im sure someone must have mentioned this already) the creators of C++ claiming trademark infringement BS over software titles created using the programming language, oh yea not for themselves but for the sake of the "community" of modders, developers or whatever random Joe they think of. Ridiculous isnt it? You would easily be able to see this if you have the quotient to figure things out you know.

As for that guy pushing the ToS/EULA BS over the War3 editor issue, the matter here isnt about Valve, IceFrog or Eul trying to copy Warcraft3 characters or lore, pixel to pixel or word to word. Nor are they using Blizzard's redundant War3 game engine to create DotA 2. If Blizzard tries to work the ToS angle then they are going to end up eating crow. The name DotA and the genre of MOBA games that it popularised is NOTHING related to RTS styled War3 game plan or the editor or anything the ToS covers. Its the intellectual property of a few people who can claim ownership based on factors that also arent covered by the ToS blanket. I would really like to see Blizzard push this angle, it would be hilarious to see this blow up in their face. But sadly you dont seem to understand the IP safeguards that are in place so you can make such self-righteous comments, but Blizzard would definitely know its safer to work the "war3 platform" angle in their favour rather than risk pulling ToS into the picture which could undermine their claim from the get go.

Gone is the company who made Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne and Diablo 2, its now just a bunch of greed motivated shumcks who want to nickel and dime the players any and every way possible. Company sponsored RMT market for D3 is sure working wonders for the game and company all, aye?

If makes me wonder though, in case WoW wasnt bleeding subs so badly off late, would Blizzard still have pulled this fit over DotA?

This community is impossible..

Blizzard is only out for one thing, to prevent a trademark. If blizzard wins this NO ONE will notice a damn bit of difference. However if valve wins there may be a difference, NO ONE can use the term DOTA to represent any product without consent or a hefty checkbook.

That said, people saying the creators of the MAP(it isn't even considered a mod) should have rights to this really should read the EULA. THEY AGREED ALL THEIR IDEAS and CREATIONS TO BLIZZARD WHILE USING THEIR TOOLS. They have absolutely no claim and there is no fighting that. If you think otherwise you're a fool, welcome to the real world.

Don't sign a contract if you don't agree to the terms.

Blizzard is evil that's all these anti blizzard people can think, hell blizzard could cure cancer and these people would twist it into something negative.

i'm sure Valve has the best interest of gamers in their heart...i'm sure they aren't doing this  out of greed at all  /s

Originally posted by RainBringer

There are just too many tools in this thread who are running their mouth without knowing anything even remotely close to what Blizzard are planning here, some even speaking on the company's behalf like self entitled PR pricks. What are the odds many here dont even know what DotA stands for or have even seen the game map leave alone play it, but are commenting on it like they know every last detail down to the legality of the matter regarding trademark infringement?

 

Here is a simple example for all those simple minded people:

Think about the children's book series, Harry Potter. After its release, there has been a whole array of fanfiction centered on that storybook setting, even some fiction that do not use any of the notable JK Rowling characters and some that do not use any chracters or trademarked terms from the original stories at all.

Now in case someone wrote a fanfiction called "101-ways to cook chicken" using the storybook's setting but without using Any characters, terms, trademarked names, etc and then went on to publish Another book called "102-ways to cook chicken" BASED on the popularity of the previous fanfiction using a whole new setting, lore and characters that had nothing to do with Harry potter series. 

So now do you think JW Rowling has the rights to sue this guy for "stealing" something he created using a storyline that was involved with her books at one point but who's final content is nothing similar to the books she wrote? Think and think again before answering. The guy who wrote the fanfiction here is IceFrog, the new publishers for his book are Valve and the JK Rowling who is trying to monopolize anything that it can touch is Blizzard here.

 

The fact is DotA was never a RTS game that War3 was, the game that Blizzard created or intended to make and own. It never had any features that is associated with any RTS game, ie army control, resources generation and management, kill objectives or quest plots, etc. The only thing that even remotely attaches it to War3 is that DotA was a whole new kind of game made using that editor, something that Blizzard played absolutely NO role in. Now they want to claim this title for "Themselves" because they will sooner or later publish a Blizzard-Dota and trademark that name for themselves and the momentum it will gather among gamers with that name alone. Anyone who think Blizzard will not monopolize the DotA trademark is either lying to themselves or are fools. They are the good guys here? That joke isnt even remotely funny, they just want to make money even if its at IceFrog's, Eul's or Valve's expense (not Guinsoo because he played the wise businessman card and made his own game from the DotA concept to earn him those dollars that Blizzard cant get its grubby paws on. ie LoL).

 

So whats next, Blizzard is going to trademark all the popular War3 usermade maps? LOAP,  arena champions, The black road, 3-corris, Defiance, Resident evil themed survival maps, Vampirism and everything else? Maybe not yet since it wont get them enough money, but when it gets popular enough they might just claim it to be their own creation, name and all.

 

Gotta love it when people call out tools and dont even read the legal documents themselves.

Valve is attempting to trademark the DotA name. They are attempting to seal DotA with Valve and essentially give them right to sue or make money off the name.

Blizzard filed an opposition to this. Blizzard didn't file for a trademark themselves. They basically are arguing that Valve doesn't have right to trademark the name and that Blizzard can be damaged by this action.

People really need to stop hating on Blizzard blindly. Valve is doing the underhanded thing here. Nobody has to file for a trademark and then people can use the term. Yes, I read the entire opposition document Blizzard filed. No where in there is Blizzard stating they will trademark the name or that it already belongs to them.

To sum it up; Blizzard is saying that the DotA name is too closely associated with Blizzard's property and that Valve lacks the right or history associated with the mark for them to take it and in taking it, it will damage Blizzard.

Originally posted by RainBringer

Originally posted by niceguy3978

 

Don't accuse people of being tools, and then turn around and show that you don't understand what is actually going on.  Blizzard is not trying to trademark anything.  They are trying to keep valve from trademarking DOTA.  If valve successfully trademarks DOTA then nobody else will be able to use DOTA in their title.  Once again, Blizzard isn't trying to trademark DOTA if they wanted to do that, they could have done it 8 years ago, but they chose not to.  Now Valve wants to trademark DOTA and Blizzard is trying to stop them.

How stupid can you be to think Blizzard is doing this for anyone else's sake but their own. And I'm sure Valve has a pure and good reason to trademark the name? Really?

 

If you think Blizzard isnt going to somehow try to bank solely on the "DotA" name then your ignorance is absurd. Even if they dont  try to trademark the name "DotA" as their own, atleast before preventing Valve from claiming the name. Just they havent done it yet because there was no legal way to prove DotA was their creation As with Valve., what is the bet they will push the trademark envelope once their Blizzard DotA comes out?. Even if they dont do it at this point in time, they obviously want to ride on the coattails on the word "DotA" alone to hike up the box-sales of whatever MOBA / DotA based game they want to sell without having to pay royalties to Valve or Eul or IceFrog, you know the "creators" of DotA Guinsoo, one of the creators BEFORE IceFrog transferred all his ownership and rights of DotA to Blizzard, imagine that.. Its as simple as that, only thing being that Valve got the original modders / creators of the DotA maps on their team No, they dont. IceFrog is an inherited owner and without paperwork backing it, has nothing and have invested a good deal of money on bringing up the DotA community to par in the recent past while Blizzard did nothing for DotA Aside from, you know, advertising it and supporting it in BNet and Blizzcon and granting whatever permissions fansites and tournaments asked for for more than half a decade other than sitting their ass on it and cashing in on the War3 sales due to the popularity of a fan-made mod while focusing developing / publicity efforts on WoW.

 

This is Exactly like (Im sure someone must have mentioned this already) the creators of C++ claiming trademark infringement BS over software titles created using the programming language, oh yea not for themselves but for the sake of the "community" of modders, developers or whatever random Joe they think of. Ridiculous isnt it? You would easily be able to see this if you have the quotient to figure things out you know. Kinda nothing like this, but keep going, fun read.

 

As for that guy pushing the ToS/EULA BS over the War3 editor issue, the matter here isnt about Valve, IceFrog or Eul trying to copy Warcraft3 characters or lore, pixel to pixel or word to word. Nor are they using Blizzard's redundant War3 game engine to create DotA 2. If Blizzard tries to work the ToS angle then they are going to end up eating crow. The name DotA and the genre of MOBA games that it popularised is NOTHING related to RTS styled War3 game plan or the editor or anything the ToS covers. Its the intellectual property of a few people who can claim ownership based on factors that also arent covered by the ToS blanket Of which Guinsoo and Pendragon (both assiciated with DotA before IceFrog) gave all their rights to DotA to Blizzard.. I would really like to see Blizzard push this angle, it would be hilarious to see this blow up in their face. But sadly you dont seem to understand the IP safeguards that are in place so you can make such self-righteous comments, but Blizzard would definitely know its safer to work the "war3 platform" angle in their favour rather than risk pulling ToS into the picture which could undermine their claim from the get go.

 

Gone is the company who made Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne and Diablo 2, its now just a bunch of greed motivated shumcks who want to nickel and dime the players any and every way possible. Company sponsored RMT market for D3 is sure working wonders for the game and company all, aye?

If makes me wonder though, in case WoW wasnt bleeding subs so badly off late, would Blizzard still have pulled this fit over DotA Yes, Valve is the greedy one here.?

 

You cant be serious. If you are, I might feel sorry for you in another life. Otherwise, keep the good laughs coming.

Originally posted by Loke666

Meh, I never got this American idea hat you should sue people for as many things as possible (like spilling hot coffee in your own lap and crap), I hope Blizzard loses this one.

 

 

i dont understand whats the deal with all the sueings either.... theres a saying in my country that goes "evil weeds never die", so i guess ill never trip and fall at work to become millionaire with a tight sueing :(

Blizzard is as greedy as it always was and the main reason why they want to prevent that is to claim the rights for the name themselves.

A right that Valve has since the original creator of Dota is working with them on that title.

Other than that, most of the mods had in their descriptions "like dota", instead of being named like that.

Should Bioware now start suing people left and right since tons of mods were created with their aurora tool that was included in neverwinter nights 12 years ago too?

Ridicoulos.

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Originally posted by expresso
If Valve win no one can use the term DOTA in their game without the risk of getting sued by Valve.
If Blizzard win the term DOTA is free for any one to use in any context.
Who are the bad guys?

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You guys make no sense you cannot trademark a name/word that made it in the public domain. You cannot trade mark "movie" and ask all movie makers to get you your copyright share each time they want to sell a movie, its just absurd. If they allow to TM "Dota" then the guys that took this decision are at fault, its neither Blizzard, neither Valve decision to decide if the word "dota" can be trade marked or not, and probably not even a court can decide it either tbh. There is an institution to take this decision. And in my opinion neither Valve neither Bliz have anything to say in this decision.

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Originally posted by Requiamer

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Originally posted by expresso
If Valve win no one can use the term DOTA in their game without the risk of getting sued by Valve.
If Blizzard win the term DOTA is free for any one to use in any context.
Who are the bad guys?

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You guys make no sense you cannot trademark a name/word that made it in the public domain. You cannot trade mark "movie" and ask all movie makers to get you your copyright share each time they want to sell a movie, its just absurd. If they allow to TM "Dota" then the guys that took this decision are at fault, its neither Blizzard, neither Valve decision to decide if the word "dota" can be trade marked or not, and probably not even a court can decide it either tbh. There is an institution to take this decision. And in my opinion neither Valve neither Bliz have anything to say in this decision.

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This is ridiciouls ... DOTA was never blizzard it was made by a community that made an amazing add-on. Valve picked it up and is now capitilzing on and Blizzard is pissed. Shoulda, woulda coulda Blizz good job, more law suits that are not needed...

Originally posted by Trocco71600

This is ridiciouls ... DOTA was never blizzard it was made by a community that made an amazing add-on. Valve picked it up and is now capitilzing on and Blizzard is pissed. Shoulda, woulda coulda Blizz good job, more law suits that are not needed...

To me it kinda depends if the guys behind DOTA is okay with th whole thing or not, not if Blizzard is it.

That the name is tied in with warcraft means nothing here, morally is the 3 persons who created DOTA and made it into what it is the one who should have the rights, not Blizzard or Valve.

If Valve pay them it is fine, if not they should not be able to trademark anything at all. In fact even making the game is wrong in that case. But as usual is the media only focusing on the corporations, not the people who actually created DOTA.