Originally posted by k-damage

I admit I'm having more and more a super hard time playing my alts (lvl 27 IA, lvl 20 inqui)...

I can't even find the will to finish my main (lvl43). I don't know what happenned down the road, I was really excited by this game the first day, but now I'm on the total opposite fence ..

And I subbed for 3 monthes :s

I lost my will to continue even with a single character I played during the free month that I brought up to lvl44 but then one night just stopped logging in... I completely lost interest.

Originally posted by baphamet

this thread is a fail, this game has the best replayablity i have ever seen in any mmorpg.

yeah you have to do some of the same things again but name me an mmo where you do all different stuff with each new character you make.

the trolls on this forum still amaze me.

So trolls amaze you yet your own ignorance doesn't? Splendid

You go through the story in TOR and its done. Nothing more to do. No endgame content. I grew sick and tired of doing the exact same thing on every mission and I skipped all of the annoying cutscenes that were merely adding to the pain. Rift is way more fun to play - at least you can join at will any group at the rifts and at least it has some degree of dynamism - when I opened the map to look at all the tears and all the action I was really mindblown. Compare that to the dead map in TOR where everyone is idling by with an exclamation mark ready to disgorge their voiceacted spiel on you...i would gladly give those up for a better overall experience.

For a project with this much of a budget and this much money put into it, its a massive fail. The story was interesting but once it ended - grind and boredom.

Originally posted by gestalt11

There was some debate before the game released about how replayable the game is, ie. by my definition how fresh and interesting a second or third character is.

 

I have played 4 characters past level 20 on the same faction.  I have played to characters past level 30 and one past level 40.

 

The replaybability is terrible especially if your first character was a stealth class that can skip fights.  Every single character will wind up doing the exact same quests in the same area almsot 90% of the content will be shared extactly the same.  The only 10% difference is the class quests of which you will do roughly 1-2 per level after leve 15 o 16.

 

If you solo the game and stealth past some fight you must do almost every single quests that exists.  If you solo and don't skip you will need to do about 90% of the quests.

Obviously if you grind instances you may do less or possibly none at all.

 

The only variation that exists is in light/dark side choices/companion reactions.  And in the end simply by playing one light side and one dark side you have basically seen all there is to see except the small portion of quests that is the class quest (which is far too slow to develop to justify griding through the same quests a third time).  Compaion reaction is novel and all but in the end only matter from a roleplaying perspective anyway as gifts is the way to go if you have seen it all before.  And frankly that is extremely meager picking unless you are really into the role play part.

Are you rolling new toons that do the same thing? Kind of seems like it....

Originally posted by Vedra

This is exactly why my roommate played the game for only two weeks with three characters before being done with the game and letting my try it for the remainder of his free month before canceling.

Unbelievable when I think back to the Everquest days and where my friends and I were at the two week point from starting the game.

 

I remember what I was doing two weeks from starting EQ.  Still hopelessly getting lost in zones, running from trains in Blackburrow, and smashing my head against my desk because of the incredibly long load times due to my slow computer.  It was magical, though I think that may have had alot to do with the novelty of online gaming at the time.

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by kartool

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by kartool

So, the OP is basically complaining about how all themepark MMO's are designed? There is variation with the class quest, but I really don't understand the complaint about having to repeat quests on alts. Did you expect each character to have a completely different series of quests? Point me to a single MMO that's done that and I'll buy that this is really a valid complaint.

You're not unhappy with TOR, you're unhappy with the current state of themepark MMO's.

did you just decide to skip all the other posts in this thread?  MULTIPLE posts pointing out how WoW AT LAUNCH! has completely different series of quests for at the least 6 characters, 3 per faction.  That's on questing alone.

You completely missed my point which brings your reading skills into question. I'll reiterate just for you elocke, ALL themepark MMO's these days are linear and alts are forced down the same leveling paths. The complaint shouldn't just be about TOR. It should be about the genre in general. Pointing out a flaw in TOR that exists in all other themeparks and acting like it's something new is disingenious. Is that any clearer for you?

I could go on about how so many people seem to forget the xp gaps in vanilla you had to fill by grinding mobs to get to the next quest area, or the fact that you had to do most of the content anyway to get to end game on each character but I won't bother because you know WoW did it all perfect from day one, right?

 

So your real issue is just with us picking on SWTOR to bring this up?  Even though...this HAS been brought up with Rift, AoC, Aion, CO, STO, etc....so, you have no point except to show us that you seem to be againt any negative opinion about SWTOR.  That's just odd.

No, my point is simply that this is the direction the MMO genre has gone. You even seem to agree with me - as I stated same as you almost all big MMO's released since WoW have done the same thing.

TOR has problems, end game needs work and the travel time sink really needs to be addressed. The leveling content in the game is more than acceptable at this point and is comparable if not better than many MMO's release in the last 5 years in my opinon. It's a weak complaint about the game for anyone who has played a AAA MMO since WoW was released.

I'd pay extra to be able to level to 50 soley on my class quest, so I could be done with the game. Ah, clever MMO developers.

The focus on reroll was one of the reasons I personaly skipped this game. I never roll alts, accept to use them for a special funktion like Mules, and if the game has crafting I might make a pure crafting TOON, if I cant do it on my main. Reason for this has nothing to do with the Level grind. I see my self as my persona ingame, its my personal representation inside the game, I get to know people on my main charecter, It represents Me inside the game world. I have never understood the reason for rolling alts accept on other servers, I might be on RP, PvP and PVE server but in the end I pick one server were I think the comunity is the best. I find no satisfaction getting all schizofrenic and spliting myself into diffrent personaleties. Unless they serve a purpose like in EvE if I want to spy on an enemy CORP.

Rerolling to experince more content is alien to me, It feels totaly Usless and a waste of time, But the more I read about this game it feels like that is what BIOWare wants people to be doing. I call that stupid game design and totaly puts me of the product....

There is always one class you prefer above all ells, and yes down the road 6months to 1 year into the game I might have more then one charecter to max level, on diffrent servers, but it has never been a main goal to get new charecters to max level, it comes way down the list on things I want to be doing inside the game..Even if the story is Awsome I always feel disconected with alts. I can spend hours in the charecter generator to get my primary toon just the way I want him ( and from what I can see charecter creater in SWTOR is mediocer and lackluster at best).  I think Bioware really missed out on what MMO players really want with this game.. 

Ps I never play female toons either, I cant conect to a female avatar.. feels wierd and wrong...

Originally posted by Zlayer77

The focus on reroll was one of the reasons I personaly skipped this game. I never roll alts, accept to use them for a special funktion like Mules, and if the game has crafting I might make a pure crafting TOON, if I cant do it on my main. Reason for this has nothing to do with the Level grind. I see my self as my persona ingame, its my personal representation inside the game, I get to know people on my main charecter, It represents Me inside the game world. I have never understood the reason for rolling alts accept on other servers, I might be on RP, PvP and PVE server but in the end I pick one server were I think the comunity is the best. I find no satisfaction getting all schizofrenic and spliting myself into diffrent personaleties. Unless they server a purpose like in EvE if I want to spy on an enemy CORP.

Rerolling to experince more content is alien to me, It feels totaly Usless and a waste of time, But the more I read about this game if feels like that is what BIOWare wants people to be doing. I call that stupid game design and otaly puts me personaly of the product....

There is always one class you prefer above all ells, and yes down the road 6months to 1 year into the game I might have more then one charecter to max level, on diffrent servers, but it has never been a main goal to get new charecters to max level, it comes way down the list on things I want to be doing inside the game..Even if the story is Awsome I always feel disconected with alts. I can spend hours in the charecter generator to get my primary toon just the way I want him ( and from what I can see charecter creater in SWTOR is mediocer and lackluster at best).  I think Bioware really missed out on what MMO players really want with this game.. 

you would be surprised perhaps how many others are much the same,  and there are only really 4 choices, 3 if you limit yourself to either imperial or republic..  not that you'd want to do each of them in any case, i think many will look at the different, or not so different, classes and choose one and probably stick with that class, reaching end game, which is undeveloped at the moment regardless of claims to the contrary ( SW:TOR isnt a suitable game for the PvP enthusiast imo) and the flashpoints are only repeatable so many times before terminal boredom sets in..

i think this will be a game where players max out whichever class they like and do the content, and then move on until new content is released, i don't see this being a game where people are subbed to it for long period of time

Originally posted by dimasok

Originally posted by baphamet

this thread is a fail, this game has the best replayablity i have ever seen in any mmorpg.

yeah you have to do some of the same things again but name me an mmo where you do all different stuff with each new character you make.

the trolls on this forum still amaze me.

So trolls amaze you yet your own ignorance doesn't? Splendid

You go through the story in TOR and its done. Nothing more to do. No endgame content. I grew sick and tired of doing the exact same thing on every mission and I skipped all of the annoying cutscenes that were merely adding to the pain. Rift is way more fun to play - at least you can join at will any group at the rifts and at least it has some degree of dynamism - when I opened the map to look at all the tears and all the action I was really mindblown. Compare that to the dead map in TOR where everyone is idling by with an exclamation mark ready to disgorge their voiceacted spiel on you...i would gladly give those up for a better overall experience.

For a project with this much of a budget and this much money put into it, its a massive fail. The story was interesting but once it ended - grind and boredom.

Originally posted by Phry

you would be surprised perhaps how many others are much the same,  and there are only really 4 choices, 3 if you limit yourself to either imperial or republic..  not that you'd want to do each of them in any case, i think many will look at the different, or not so different, classes and choose one and probably stick with that class, reaching end game, which is undeveloped at the moment regardless of claims to the contrary ( SW:TOR isnt a suitable game for the PvP enthusiast imo) and the flashpoints are only repeatable so many times before terminal boredom sets in..

i think this will be a game where players max out whichever class they like and do the content, and then move on until new content is released, i don't see this being a game where people are subbed to it for long period of time

This , this is the center theme for any mmo games . The sucess of MMORPG revolves around PVP, thats just a fact , if  their pvp totally shallow  or plain sucks u just might just forget it . I love the idea tat low level players able to random pvp with fellow high levers by being buffed on their stat , but somehow swtor lacks something deep with their pvp .

I'm feeling the same way. Is it possible to just do the main story quests if you have full rest xp though? I can't stand doing the same side quest again.

I lost interest with this game sometime during beta testing.  I didn't even need to hit level cap to see what was going to happen.  When the game went live and I hit level 50, I couldn't help but feel like I beat the game and when you beat a game, well, you no longer feel the urge to continue playing beyond that point.  Sure, there are a few repeatable activities to do; but, really, how many times can you do the same thing over and over?

Another thing that rubbed me the wrong way was the attitude we were getting from the developers during beta, often times they would flat out lie to our faces then perform a coverup when they got caught.  Like with the whole match color to chest situation, man if that didn't scream red flag.

Their major focus during development was on the game being fully voiced; but, even that was a sham.  Tell me who didn't spend half of their time reading through waves of text while listening to some alien jargon, that's basically just the same sound wave repeating itself.  Oh and lets not forget how every close has this same set of filler phrasis that they convienently throw into almost every dialogue scene.  You think it's amusing at first; but, after you've heard your character say the same exact lines 100 times, you get tired of it.

They cut corners making this game and you can really see it glaring through all the smoke they created when it launched.  The most obvious being the horrible performance ratings we have been seeing from it.  It's like it never left beta.  I still remember people back then going, oh it hasn't been optimized yet, when it goes live it will run so much better.  It runs exactly the same!  lol

It's clear to me that they would have been better off just making this a single player game.  Trying to trick people into subing for a game while they wait for expansions is nothing but a shady gimick that's a sad reminder of where MMO's have gone in the last decade.  You're basically paying to wait for something you already paid for and the added fun of repeatable content with friends, whoopie!  It's as fun as watching Episode I: The Phantom Menace with your friends 180 times in one month; but, wouldn't you feel mighty and accomplished in the end?

I didnt expect to lvl more then 2 toons. One on Empire and one on Republic side. But I cant even get my BH through Dromund Kaas.

I loved Hutta, but I loathe Dromund Kaas with the never ending hiking on that always dark planet.  And that city, although it looks cool, has a very annoying layout and no taxi service connection to the rest of the planet. Ironically on a planet where you get to fed ex way too much.

I so wish they made Bounty Hunter and Smuggler chosable for both factions. They were the only classes I was really interested in. From those 2 classes I only like Bounty Hunter in terms of gameplay. The Smugglers cover mechanics are just bad. It feels very artificial having to look for spots that the devs decided are good cover. I was hoping for a cover system that makes use of line of sight. Fighting from cover with the mobs standing behind you looks so silly lol.

I think the focus on story makes this game seem even more like a single-player RPG than most themepark MMOs.  Of course, they aren't really all that different - most other themepark MMOs make feeble attempts at stories in their one-off and series-type text quests.  SWTOR did a much better job of storytelling than most of them.

Unfortunately, all stories must end.  Because SWTOR focused so much on the story, I think it's much more noticeable when that story ends.  The sudden change in gameplay is so noticeable, in fact, it's almost jarring.  And once that story ends, you're left with nothing but the same instance-oriented gear grind found in most other games.

I don't usually play through the story in most single-player RPGs more than once.  The same goes for SWTOR.

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Originally posted by Matt_UK

I don't get this argument. We can forgive Bioware because this is a game just starting out? Are you saying they shouldn't have learned anything from all those other games you mentioned? Surely the point of any genre is to improve with every new release not start again at the same point ad infinitum?

In terms of content?  Hell yeah they should be "forgiven" for not having multiple zones for every level during the questing process.  You're kidding, right?  No game in the history of MMOs has ever been released with tons of alternative content available at every level of the process unless it was a specific design choice by the game, in which case we probably aren't talking about a themepark game anyway.  

WoW didn't have it.

Lotro didn't have it.

Aion didn't have it.

Conan didn't have it.  

Rift STILL doesn't have it.

But we're gonna trash TOR for not releasing with enough alternative levelling zones because they should have learned from all the others who have never done it?  Silly argument.

You missed the point. I can't be bothered to explain.

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Originally posted by Matt_UK

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Originally posted by elocke

  

Again.  No.  Now I'm only basing this off of my own experience with multiple characters in both LOTRO and WoW.  With WoW, vanilla I could STILL level up more than 2 characters and not see one identical quest if I so chose.  In Lotro, it's a little less "large" but I remember skipping lone lands completely on my RK and then skipping most of North Downs on my hunter.  I remember skipping Evendim on my LM, and so on.  

Sorry man, that's just not true about either WoW or Lotro.  I played both games for years, including Vanilla WoW just after launch.  There is simply no way you could play WoW all the way through a second time without re-doing quests.  Unless you levelled up strictly through dungeon runs, which you can also do in TOR for the most part.  

As for Lotro, yeah, you can skip parts of some sections, and there is overlap with North Downs and Lone Lands.  But you have a lot of redundancy in that game as well, just as much as ToR.  And remember, we're talking about launch content, not content as it currently is.  At launch, or shortly after when Evendim came in, you had some leeway between North Downs and Lonelands and that was about it.  Evendim gave you a little more variety when it was released, but you still had to basically do the same zones in the same order.  You had the option of skipping certain quest hubs, just like you do in TOR, and moving onto the next zone.  

Again, I'm with you 100% on wanting to see more alternate levelling paths for TOR.  I don't think anyone wouldn't want that.  And Bioware has said they will bring that in future updates.  All I'm saying is that it's unfair to rail on TOR for not having alternative options in terms of choosing zones when games like Lotro and Rift didn't have them either at launch.  Hell, Rift still doesn't.  

 

 

How come you played all these games and didn't like any of them? Was it some kind of bet?

What are you talking about?  I played WoW for 5 years.  Loved it.  I played Lotro for 2 years.  Loved it.  Just got bored of both of them after a while, as many people do in MMOs.  I'm just explaining that neither of those games gave you a ton of levelling options at launch, either.  

 

Lighten up, it was a joke. Stop feeling the need to explain yourself.

As for ToR, after going back to Balmorra with my Sentinel (after already doing it with my Sorcerer ten levels lower) and now sent back to Nar Shaddaa for more of the endless generic warehouses and tunnels, i'm unsubbing.

Replay value? It isn't even interesting once through.

TOR COMBAT IS SO EXCITING!!!!

NOTE THE COMPLEX MOVEMENTS AND ANIMATIONS!! WOW!!

This alone should make this game replayable for YEARS to come!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpxEr4b1kFE&feature=related

Originally posted by Raijukin

TOR COMBAT IS SO EXCITING!!!!

NOTE THE COMPLEX MOVEMENTS AND ANIMATIONS!! WOW!!

This alone should make this game replayable for YEARS to come!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpxEr4b1kFE&feature=related

 Someone farming a low lvl boss in the open world who out levels it so much it can hardly hit him. Yep a fair and unbiased example right here.

 Just want to add, i have noticed even from a lot of people who hated the game that combat was one of its strong points.

Originally posted by namelessbob

I just don't even understand the OPs original post as he played WoW. That game was horrible on its replayability. Atleast the main storyline changes for every character in SWTOR. I mean honestly SWTOR is leaps and bounds and years ahead of WoW. Not sure if OP is serious or not.

 I agree. WOW had such a bland leveling experience. I don't see how anyone can think that those long paragraphs of text with lifeless NPCs was interesting, but to each his own. As for me, I prefer NPCs with personalities that I can actually interact with. If we took away the class storyline then yes, alt rolling would be just like every other MMO out there.The class storyline itself guarentees that unless you're rolling the same class, your experience will be different. All my characters have been Empire(Bounty Hunter,Sith Warrior,Sith Inquisitor) and I've been having a blast with the three toons I've created. Each character has a different personality to them along with different companions with their own agenda.

As long as quests remain an integral part of the MMO experience I don't see text based quest giving making a comback.

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by gestalt11

There was some debate before the game released about how replayable the game is, ie. by my definition how fresh and interesting a second or third character is.

 

I have played 4 characters past level 20 on the same faction.  I have played to characters past level 30 and one past level 40.

 

The replaybability is terrible especially if your first character was a stealth class that can skip fights.  Every single character will wind up doing the exact same quests in the same area almsot 90% of the content will be shared extactly the same.  The only 10% difference is the class quests of which you will do roughly 1-2 per level after leve 15 o 16.

 

If you solo the game and stealth past some fight you must do almost every single quests that exists.  If you solo and don't skip you will need to do about 90% of the quests.

Obviously if you grind instances you may do less or possibly none at all.

 

The only variation that exists is in light/dark side choices/companion reactions.  And in the end simply by playing one light side and one dark side you have basically seen all there is to see except the small portion of quests that is the class quest (which is far too slow to develop to justify griding through the same quests a third time).  Compaion reaction is novel and all but in the end only matter from a roleplaying perspective anyway as gifts is the way to go if you have seen it all before.  And frankly that is extremely meager picking unless you are really into the role play part.

so much for the 200 hours of unique gameplay per class they promised us http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-29-ea-200-hours-of-play-per-swtor-class

same thing I found as well though I'm an alt aholic in MMOs and this was the worst alt experience I have had in this type of game.

Worst  "alt" experience in an MMO?  Seriously?  How many otehr MMO's have you played?