Regardless of how one would invest in an MMO (Kickstart or not), I would look for one backed by a well known developer in the gaming world. Sure it seems shallow, but nothing else I feel would guarentee that the people behind said game were dedicated and skilled at their work than knowing that ahead of time. Not only that but developers (and engineers in general) are very proud skilled workers, and when their name is on the front of something like that I feel like you will get 125% of their effort on said project. And I'm not talking about people like John Smedley or Richard Garriot, I'm talking more like Markus Persson.

Originally posted by Majinash

Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

My requirement would be that Kickstarter finally begins accepting non-US projects. I am totally boycotting it because of that and I'm sure many more people would do so if they knew this fact.

At the moment, Kickstarter is the place where the world funds American bright ideas and creativity. The rest of the world does not have the right to be creative or original.. and yet they do accept payments from outside the US. I find this policy completely outrageous.

Like the american bright idea to start a site called Kickstarter... if only someone had some kind of idea for something similar, that would serve an area outside the US.

 

Sarcasm aside, I find your point perfectly valid, a fine reason not to donate.  However you seem like you think this is some horrible slant at the entire world.  Think about the goals of that program and it really makes quite a lot of sense the way it is.

There are other cowdfunding sites out there, such as Indiegogo which is fully international and there is no editorial hipster BS and you can repost your projects for continuous support... which  would be better suited for a long-term project such as mmorpg development... and its a full year OLDER than Kickstarter. So Kickstarter basically stole the idea from Indiegogo and some other similar sites. But Kickstarter is "hip" at the moment and Boingboing is shilling for it so...

Please explain to me how Indiegogo can accept international projects and everything works cool through paypal or other monetary channels while Kickstarter maintains that it is impossible to do so? They lie. Or they simply don't care. They are a bunch of arrogant hipsters who dictate to the world what is cool and what is not through their hipster editorial policies.

Other crowdfunding sites give you freedom - post your project and it sinks or swims on its own merit and your promotion. Kickstarter is big brother telling you what is supposed to be hip.

Originally posted by Meltdown

Regardless of how one would invest in an MMO (Kickstart or not), I would look for one backed by a well known developer in the gaming world. Sure it seems shallow, but nothing else I feel would guarentee that the people behind said game were dedicated and skilled at their work than knowing that ahead of time. Not only that but developers (and engineers in general) are very proud skilled workers, and when their name is on the front of something like that I feel like you will get 125% of their effort on said project. And I'm not talking about people like John Smedley or Richard Garriot, I'm talking more like Markus Persson.

I'd never donate to any project that is led by a well known developer.

Why should i as a consumer pay for the game that i will later need to buy and if they are already well known why do i need to pay for their investment?

Originally posted by Vegetto

 

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Originally posted by AdamTM

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Originally posted by Cuathon

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Originally posted by AdamTM

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Originally posted by Cuathon

I don't understand why you guys can't just man up and say you wouldn't ever donate on kickstarter?

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I would never donate on kickstarter.
Poll is here:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/340513/POLL-Would-you-invest-in-an-MMORPG-startup-project.html

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I know you wouldn't. I was talking to people who made a giant ass obfuscation post instead of just telling the truth.

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Actually when i think about it there is -one- situation where i could see myself donating.
If the game had a playable Alpha/Beta and I would be able to play the alpha if i donate.
 
Essentially the Overgrowth model.
But then it wouldn't be a donation.

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Ahh, Mortal? :D

I once pre-ordered a game ($10 i think) called The Chronicle. The dev team had big studios, solid pro's, some amazing little fly over demo's, great screenshots and solid financial information and company reports. They had a model of fast-track developing several MMO's at once, based on their engine. Company was called MMO Centre, PC Gamer or someone did an article on their upcoming title 'Africa' even.

The place folded, no games existed, just enough stuff to showcase. That was a company with millions, so now i'm super-sceptical :)

There is always risk but at least if you get something like an alpha you can at least mitigate the feeling of complete loss.

Else its just really gambling.

Kickstarter campaigns are mostly slot machines, you donate 10$ just to see the campaign fail anyways.

Most gamers don't have disposable income for that kind of shit. And if they do, they rather spend it on a new game or a sub.

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by Cuathon

I don't understand why you guys can't just man up and say you wouldn't ever donate on kickstarter?

I would never donate on kickstarter.

Poll is here:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/340513/POLL-Would-you-invest-in-an-MMORPG-startup-project.html

Yea sorry about that, I failed to see that other thread created an hour before mine. DOH!

Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

My requirement would be that Kickstarter finally begins accepting non-US projects. I am totally boycotting it because of that and I'm sure many more people would do so if they knew this fact.

At the moment, Kickstarter is the place where the world funds American bright ideas and creativity. The rest of the world does not have the right to be creative or original.. and yet they do accept payments from outside the US. I find this policy completely outrageous.

The second requirement would be that they stop screening projects according to their taste. I've seen many great projects rejected becuse the dozen or so hipsters that comprise their editorial staff don't find them "cool, rad or ironic" enough.

I've studied crowdfunding and Kickstarter really is "bad guy" of the bunch. They are WoW of internet crowdfunding scene and alot of people pitching dolars to legitimately help out new promising projects (which is cool) do not know some darker aspects of the story.

That is ridiculous. I hate kickstarter, ever since a 19 year old girl who was interested in cookie baking and trinket making denied my startup idea for a business which would ridiculously help indie developers create great looking video games for extremely cheap.

Yep...they hire 19 year old volunteers from the kickstarter community to judge types of projects they have no interest or knowledge in.

I asked her to explain why in a short paragraph, and she ignored me like a little spoiled kid on facebook would.

It's great to know that the future of adult business is judged excluslively by ignorant 19 year old prissy girls who aren't interested in video games and can't grasp the definition of "indie developers" let alone any real idea.

If I were to ever ask for funding for my MMORPG, it would be on a professionally created website with tons of information about the game, videos/screenshots or even playable demos, and an enormous committment to the game's official forum and heavy heavy involvement with the community within.

Kickstarter takes a large % of all funds, and they force you to use Amazon which also takes a large % of all funds. Leaving you with twice as large a % less and IMO it's all far too much. They don't deserve so much money, even if what they're doing is great. You have to realize the ridiculous amount of money they must get each day through hundreds of projects fully funded and beyond.

If you want to do your fans a favor, you don't do it through Kickstarter. You use ALL of their money to the game, not only a % of it.

Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

Originally posted by Majinash

Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

My requirement would be that Kickstarter finally begins accepting non-US projects. I am totally boycotting it because of that and I'm sure many more people would do so if they knew this fact.

At the moment, Kickstarter is the place where the world funds American bright ideas and creativity. The rest of the world does not have the right to be creative or original.. and yet they do accept payments from outside the US. I find this policy completely outrageous.

Like the american bright idea to start a site called Kickstarter... if only someone had some kind of idea for something similar, that would serve an area outside the US.

 

Sarcasm aside, I find your point perfectly valid, a fine reason not to donate.  However you seem like you think this is some horrible slant at the entire world.  Think about the goals of that program and it really makes quite a lot of sense the way it is.

There are other cowdfunding sites out there, such as Indiegogo which is fully international and there is no editorial hipster BS and you can repost your projects for continuous support... which  would be better suited for a long-term project such as mmorpg development... and its a full year OLDER than Kickstarter. So Kickstarter basically stole the idea from Indiegogo and some other similar sites. But Kickstarter is "hip" at the moment and Boingboing is shilling for it so...

Please explain to me how Indiegogo can accept international projects and everything works cool through paypal or other monetary channels while Kickstarter maintains that it is impossible to do so? They lie. Or they simply don't care. They are a bunch of arrogant hipsters who dictate to the world what is cool and what is not through their hipster editorial policies.

Other crowdfunding sites give you freedom - post your project and it sinks or swims on its own merit and your promotion. Kickstarter is big brother telling you what is supposed to be hip.

Wow thanks, that's great to hear!

"there is no editorial hipster BS and you can repost your projects for continuous support.."

Thank you. Thank you. I love you now <3.

Seriously, I couldn't have put that in better words myself. "Editorial Hipster BS" is exactly what it is.

I cannot believe my startup business that would have been 100x bigger than REINER'S TILESET for indie developers was denied because a 19 year old girl basically said it's not baking cookies or making trinkets so she thinks it's dumb.

To be honest, I really think some of you are BSing your way around the reality: You would never donate to a project.

Some of the ridiculous requirements such as being entirely funded and backed by a major company or legendary game developer (why do they need your donations then?) make it clear that what people are really saying is they would never donate.

It's okay to say you'd never donate. You don't have to pretend, lol.

In other words, a lot of people here would only donate if the game developer didn't need their donations.

Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn

To be honest, I really think some of you are BSing your way around the reality: You would never donate to a project.

 

Some of the ridiculous requirements such as being entirely funded and backed by a major company or legendary game developer (why do they need your donations then?) make it clear that what people are really saying is they would never donate.

It's okay to say you'd never donate. You don't have to pretend, lol.

 

 

In other words, a lot of people here would only donate if the game developer didn't need their donations.

I made 10 posts saying the same thing. Copycat :P

Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn

To be honest, I really think some of you are BSing your way around the reality: You would never donate to a project.

 

Some of the ridiculous requirements such as being entirely funded and backed by a major company or legendary game developer (why do they need your donations then?) make it clear that what people are really saying is they would never donate.

It's okay to say you'd never donate. You don't have to pretend, lol.

 

 

In other words, a lot of people here would only donate if the game developer didn't need their donations.

Are we talking donating or investing? I pledged $200 to the "players buying Ryzom" fund. However, they were outbid by the current company so it never went through.

Other than that donation "no" I would not donate a large amount of money. Would I invest? "yes" if it looked like it was a good investment (meaning money well spent on a good team that had its act together) and if it was a something I believed in. But we are not talking huge amounts here as for the most part, video games are "crappy" investments, especially mmo's.

Fickle players, so much that can go wrong, so much money and pushing release dates only to have a few issues at launch, get flamed on forums and then the players go elsewhere.

Very bad idea. I won't invest in a MMO. It is risky and the return is not that great.

If i want to PLAY a MMO, i just have to look into the market and find one i like. If there is none that i like, i will go play something else.

It is a BAD idea to mix a hobby with investment.

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by Meltdown

Regardless of how one would invest in an MMO (Kickstart or not), I would look for one backed by a well known developer in the gaming world. Sure it seems shallow, but nothing else I feel would guarentee that the people behind said game were dedicated and skilled at their work than knowing that ahead of time. Not only that but developers (and engineers in general) are very proud skilled workers, and when their name is on the front of something like that I feel like you will get 125% of their effort on said project. And I'm not talking about people like John Smedley or Richard Garriot, I'm talking more like Markus Persson.

I'd never donate to any project that is led by a well known developer.

Why should i as a consumer pay for the game that i will later need to buy and if they are already well known why do i need to pay for their investment?

Umm.. if you would never as a consumer ever invest into a game I guess any reason for wanting to wouldn't make any sense to you regardless, so I won't take much from your response, just a clarification. I am referring to something more similar to buying a game in Alpha similar to how Markus Persson did Minecraft, you buy into the game early (investing) to support the game and hopefully get more out of it (promise of all future updates for free). So I am both purchasing and investing at the same time, not what you suggest.

I wouldn't invest in any MMO, period. Kickstart or otherwise. All around bad business imo.

Kickstarter is NOT an investment... it's a donation system.

I didn't realize I had to make it clear that Kickstarter is a website where people Donate, not a method in which you Invest for eventual profitable returns.

My bad. I guess.

Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn

Kickstarter is NOT an investment... it's a donation system.

I didn't realize I had to make it clear that Kickstarter is a website where people Donate, not a method in which you Invest for eventual profitable returns.

My bad. I guess.

Then why does your thread title say investing?

There is only one requirement for me to donate to something like that. I would need to have more money then I knew what to do with. 

Originally posted by grunty

Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn

Kickstarter is NOT an investment... it's a donation system.

I didn't realize I had to make it clear that Kickstarter is a website where people Donate, not a method in which you Invest for eventual profitable returns.

My bad. I guess.

Then why does your thread title say investing?

Because I used the word loosely and was extremely tired neglecting my own sleep when I created the thread, lol. Thanks for pointing that out, every time I glossed over my title I missed that word.

What's sad is that everyone apparently read the TITLE and responded, and didn't take the time to read the OP which makes it very clear it is about kickstarter.com type of websites. As always, people need to learn2read and stop being so lazy. I should have known better though, as many many people ALWAYS read only the title.

I honestly don't know what I was thinking. Whoops!

As I said in the other related thread

I like the idea but it concerns me a little that other developers might take advantage of this?

I trust Double Fine (have played their games) and in this case they were completely upfront and honest about what we may be spending our money on... (It could be a complete disaster... but we still get to see how it is made!)

However, would I trust Pyro? or Funcom? or anyone linked to SOE? or EA? or ... well let's face it there are dozens of names that could go here...

Because I can see some of the less scrupulous and well... less talented developers seeing this as a way to raise quick cash and maybe a way out of their financial worries (EA and Vigil and WH40K:DMO for example?)

Not all of these companies are as up-front and this is a potential way to take advantage of fanboi-ism.