Sandbox requires a high degree of competence of designers.

Originally posted by BrokenSpoon

*spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar* *spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar*

- check quest log

- run to area

- clear area

- run back to npc quest giver

*spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar* *spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar*

- Recieve loot

boooo!!!!

/victory

Originally posted by BrokenSpoon

*spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar* *spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar*

- check quest log

- run to area

- clear area

- run back to npc quest giver

*spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar* *spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar*

- Recieve loot

boooo!!!!

It's a good thing they spent so much time and money on VOs and cut scenes...oh wait...

Originally posted by tixylix

What SWTOR has done is proved it can work in a sandbox MMO, the game doesn't have to be linear like what SWTOR is. I find the story elements of the gameplay to be completly irrelevant to how that game is designed. If you notice you speak to lots of NPCs out in the open and it locks you into a cutscene and no one can see what is happening in your cutscene unless they're grouped. It has no impact on the world and doesn't get in anyones way other than your character standing still with a speach bubble above your head. 

I see no reason why you couldn't have this in a game format of SWG Pre CU. The only difference in design would be instead of the worlds being one linear line, you could go to any planet you want at any time and do the content you want. This would mean that no area ever goes unplayed as people will always choose to do different content at different stages of their character progression. This would mean I could group with my friend if I've been playing for two years and he has only just started. It isn't even like you couldn't have linear quest stories because you could easily put that in a non linear game like what GTA or Skyrim has. 

The funny thing I find about SWTOR too is everything is done in mini dungeon phases which could easily be done in a sandbox game too. There is no reason for the game to be so linear what so ever because the story has no impact on the world. You'll constantly go into a phase and do content that would massively change the world and yet you run out and everything is the same. A lot of the time you've cleared out all the Mobs and that faction is sposed to be gone after the cutscene and you have to run back through them, killing them all again lol.

To me it just proves that the myth that Sandbox cannot have story content is a lie. 

Iwouldlovetoreplybutmyspacebarisbroken.

Originally posted by BrokenSpoon

*spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar* *spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar*

- check quest log

- run to area

- clear area

- run back to npc quest giver

*spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar* *spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar*

- Recieve loot

boooo!!!!

- insert DvD

-press play

*fast forward x16* *wiggle*

-end of Film

boooo!!!

same goes for Books.

-Open book

*skip x-1 pages*

-close book

If you intend to use a game in a way its not build for , you end up like you described. Maybe not your game?

Originally posted by LordRelic

Originally posted by kakasaki

Originally posted by Clocksimus

SWTOR is not a sandbox game.  What is this thread even about if the title  is already completely wrong.

This. Plus, in a well designed sandbox, the players drive the story so no need for a complex pre-determined storyline...

lol i love this saying " the Players drive the story"  soo do you walk around in an mmo and narate whats going on or something? i mean talking to yourself is a sign of insanity.... you do know that right?

 

Sandbox games are just an excuse for the dev team to cut corners and do no real thinking about the so called world they are trying to create.

 Let me familiarize you with "The players drive the story".....

      Lets just say I have a guild in a sandbox game. It is in-game religious guild of monk-pacifists.(Like Trapist monks and not kung-fu) We wear robes during ceremonies we create- sacrificing animals as events, players give sermons while the other monks sit around and listen. We never go to war and "Prophecy" in the center of towns cryptically through the /say or /yell channel. While not choosing any side of any war.. we can still decry the aggressors by donating armor we made to the righteous guild secretively. Donating swords would be off-limits because it only leads to more destruction. We make beer and place it on a vendor so that people can purchase it. The roleplay possibilities and stories are endless in this type of situation.

This is an example of "Players driving the story". The roleplay here is much more fun than quest hub grinding in my opinion and probably would be to many more people if they werent raised on games such as WoW and held such a narrow view of what sandboxes are all about.  But, the real challenge is not getting sandbox-naysayers such as yourself over to our side. The challenge is having more sandbox players embracing roleplay instead of playing current sandboxes as if they were Modern-Warfare.

Originally posted by xDayx

 

 Let me familiarize you with "The players drive the story".....

      Lets just say I have a guild in a sandbox game. It is in-game religious guild of monk-pacifists.(Like Trapist monks and not kung-fu) We wear robes during ceremonies we create- sacrificing animals as events, players give sermons while the other monks sit around and listen. We never go to war and "Prophecy" in the center of towns cryptically through the /say or /yell channel. While not choosing any side of any war.. we can still decry the aggressors by donating armor we made to the righteous guild secretively. Donating swords would be off-limits because it only leads to more destruction. We make beer and place it on a vendor so that people can purchase it. The roleplay possibilities and stories are endless in this type of situation.

This is an example of "Players driving the story". The roleplay here is much more fun than quest hub grinding in my opinion and probably would be to many more people if they werent raised on games such as WoW and held such a narrow view of what sandboxes are all about.  But, the real challenge is not getting sandbox-naysayers such as yourself over to our side. The challenge is having more sandbox players embracing roleplay instead of playing current sandboxes as if they were Modern-Warfare.

LOL .. i have to sit through "player created sermons"??? Kill me now.

None of this sound any fun. I would much rather to fight a boss with interesting mechanics. Do you realize why this kind of role-play never take off now?

Originally posted by BrokenSpoon

*spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar* *spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar*

- check quest log

- run to area

- clear area

- run back to npc quest giver

*spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar* *spacebar**spacebar**spacebar**spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar* *spacebar*

- Recieve loot

boooo!!!!

Why would anyone buy this game to do that? I don't get it..

IF you've ever played a bioware game, you'd know what to expect from TOR's story, if you've ever played a themepark you know what to expect from it's "end-game". Why then would you fly through the main course of the game, to reach an endgame that you've played over and over and over? On top of that due to past releases you should know the end-game will not be finished, within the first month of live service.

When I read this type of thing I can't help but feel the jokes on the poster, not bioware, they got your money, and you cut yourself short.

Originally posted by tixylix

What SWTOR has done is proved it can work in a sandbox MMO, the game doesn't have to be linear like what SWTOR is. I find the story elements of the gameplay to be completly irrelevant to how that game is designed. If you notice you speak to lots of NPCs out in the open and it locks you into a cutscene and no one can see what is happening in your cutscene unless they're grouped. It has no impact on the world and doesn't get in anyones way other than your character standing still with a speach bubble above your head. 

I see no reason why you couldn't have this in a game format of SWG Pre CU. The only difference in design would be instead of the worlds being one linear line, you could go to any planet you want at any time and do the content you want. This would mean that no area ever goes unplayed as people will always choose to do different content at different stages of their character progression. This would mean I could group with my friend if I've been playing for two years and he has only just started. It isn't even like you couldn't have linear quest stories because you could easily put that in a non linear game like what GTA or Skyrim has. 

The funny thing I find about SWTOR too is everything is done in mini dungeon phases which could easily be done in a sandbox game too. There is no reason for the game to be so linear what so ever because the story has no impact on the world. You'll constantly go into a phase and do content that would massively change the world and yet you run out and everything is the same. A lot of the time you've cleared out all the Mobs and that faction is sposed to be gone after the cutscene and you have to run back through them, killing them all again lol.

To me it just proves that the myth that Sandbox cannot have story content is a lie. 

i didnt read because your thread is wrong. swtor doesnt have a single ounce of sandbox as far as i could tell.. so i didnt read your post. sorry. fix the title and i will gladly read it.

Originally posted by grafh

Originally posted by tixylix

What SWTOR has done is proved it can work in a sandbox MMO, the game doesn't have to be linear like what SWTOR is. I find the story elements of the gameplay to be completly irrelevant to how that game is designed. If you notice you speak to lots of NPCs out in the open and it locks you into a cutscene and no one can see what is happening in your cutscene unless they're grouped. It has no impact on the world and doesn't get in anyones way other than your character standing still with a speach bubble above your head. 

I see no reason why you couldn't have this in a game format of SWG Pre CU. The only difference in design would be instead of the worlds being one linear line, you could go to any planet you want at any time and do the content you want. This would mean that no area ever goes unplayed as people will always choose to do different content at different stages of their character progression. This would mean I could group with my friend if I've been playing for two years and he has only just started. It isn't even like you couldn't have linear quest stories because you could easily put that in a non linear game like what GTA or Skyrim has. 

The funny thing I find about SWTOR too is everything is done in mini dungeon phases which could easily be done in a sandbox game too. There is no reason for the game to be so linear what so ever because the story has no impact on the world. You'll constantly go into a phase and do content that would massively change the world and yet you run out and everything is the same. A lot of the time you've cleared out all the Mobs and that faction is sposed to be gone after the cutscene and you have to run back through them, killing them all again lol.

To me it just proves that the myth that Sandbox cannot have story content is a lie. 

i didnt read because your thread is wrong. swtor doesnt have a single ounce of sandbox as far as i could tell.. so i didnt read your post. sorry. fix the title and i will gladly read it.

The OP doesnt claim that SWTOR is a sandbox. Learn to read pls.

He only says that the storytelling cutscenes could be used in a sandbox game too. For this he uses preCU SWG as sandbox example.

Originally posted by someforumguy

The OP doesnt claim that SWTOR is a sandbox. Learn to read pls.

He only says that the way the story cutscenes could be used in a sandbox game too.

 

He claims, the opening line I might add:

"What SWTOR has done is proved it can work in a sandbox MMO..."

Pretty conclusive don't you think?

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by grafh

Originally posted by tixylix

What SWTOR has done is proved it can work in a sandbox MMO, the game doesn't have to be linear like what SWTOR is. I find the story elements of the gameplay to be completly irrelevant to how that game is designed. If you notice you speak to lots of NPCs out in the open and it locks you into a cutscene and no one can see what is happening in your cutscene unless they're grouped. It has no impact on the world and doesn't get in anyones way other than your character standing still with a speach bubble above your head. 

I see no reason why you couldn't have this in a game format of SWG Pre CU. The only difference in design would be instead of the worlds being one linear line, you could go to any planet you want at any time and do the content you want. This would mean that no area ever goes unplayed as people will always choose to do different content at different stages of their character progression. This would mean I could group with my friend if I've been playing for two years and he has only just started. It isn't even like you couldn't have linear quest stories because you could easily put that in a non linear game like what GTA or Skyrim has. 

The funny thing I find about SWTOR too is everything is done in mini dungeon phases which could easily be done in a sandbox game too. There is no reason for the game to be so linear what so ever because the story has no impact on the world. You'll constantly go into a phase and do content that would massively change the world and yet you run out and everything is the same. A lot of the time you've cleared out all the Mobs and that faction is sposed to be gone after the cutscene and you have to run back through them, killing them all again lol.

To me it just proves that the myth that Sandbox cannot have story content is a lie. 

i didnt read because your thread is wrong. swtor doesnt have a single ounce of sandbox as far as i could tell.. so i didnt read your post. sorry. fix the title and i will gladly read it.

 

Lol, me too, the OP is clearly delusional or knows nothing about MMO's

The only thing happening here is that you all fail to read. He clearly writes that SWTOR is lineair and never claims it is a sandbox. He only claims that the way SWTOR uses storytelling (detached from the persistant world),  can also be used like that in a sandbox game.

Originally posted by DrinkFeck

Originally posted by someforumguy

The OP doesnt claim that SWTOR is a sandbox. Learn to read pls.

He only says that the way the story cutscenes could be used in a sandbox game too.

 

He claims, the opening line I might add:

"What SWTOR has done is proved it can work in a sandbox MMO..."

Pretty conclusive don't you think?

Yes, if you read further he explains how SWTOR showed that this kind of storytelling can be used in a sandbox game.

The sentence you quoted doesnt say that SWTOR is a sandbox at all. Again, learn to read lol.

Originally posted by RefMinor
Actually, I don't need to learn to read, however I chose not to based on the ludicrous nature of the title, having now read it I concede that it was just badly phrased and the OP was not saying that SWTOR is a sandbox. They were just expressing the opinion that the story in SWTOR is so irrelevant that even if you put it into a sandbox MMO it wouldn't actually fuck it up and would just become a minor irritant.

Lol I enjoyed that comeback :)

Originally posted by kakasaki

Originally posted by Clocksimus

SWTOR is not a sandbox game.  What is this thread even about if the title  is already completely wrong.

This. Plus, in a well designed sandbox, the players drive the story so no need for a complex pre-determined storyline...

I would like to see more tools in sandbox games for player created missions that can actually effect the world.

Originally posted by someforumguy

Originally posted by RefMinor
Actually, I don't need to learn to read, however I chose not to based on the ludicrous nature of the title, having now read it I concede that it was just badly phrased and the OP was not saying that SWTOR is a sandbox. They were just expressing the opinion that the story in SWTOR is so irrelevant that even if you put it into a sandbox MMO it wouldn't actually fuck it up and would just become a minor irritant.

Lol I enjoyed that comeback :)

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by kakasaki

Originally posted by Clocksimus

SWTOR is not a sandbox game.  What is this thread even about if the title  is already completely wrong.

This. Plus, in a well designed sandbox, the players drive the story so no need for a complex pre-determined storyline...

I would like to see more tools in sandbox games for player created missions that can actually effect the world.

That is basically what the OP means. Not specifically for content creation tools used by players, but more in general to be used in a sandbox environment (by dev or player).

I think that its a smart observation from the OP, just badly phrased like someone else mentioned.

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by kakasaki

Originally posted by Clocksimus

SWTOR is not a sandbox game.  What is this thread even about if the title  is already completely wrong.

This. Plus, in a well designed sandbox, the players drive the story so no need for a complex pre-determined storyline...

I would like to see more tools in sandbox games for player created missions that can actually effect the world.

I will take a professionally well crafted story to amateurish player created story any time any day. I used to play NVN & Dungeon Siege. 99.9% of the user created mod is crap. I don't think it will be any different in a MMO.