Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by Vegetto

Then again alot of the big name MMOs out and coming out are using existing FPS engines, such as Crytek, Unreal, Hero (RPG one).

Such as SWTOR, they bought Hero before it was complete, undocumented, uncommented, unoptimized and not for sale hahah. They just got some unfinished source code and adapted it, hence why SWTOR is..ahem...limited in ways, just feels like a damn mod to me lol.

But i think buying an engine license at some level then modding it is so much easier than somehow making one from scratch, i personally wouldn't be able to get my head around the scope of that.

The problem with engines like Cryengine or Unreal is that they are not natively made to run an MMO environment.

There is significant work in "modding" (i would even say -rewriting-) parts of the engine to handle it. If you do not have the technical know-how you will fail. People heavily underestimate the work that goes into that.

The solutions that these companies come up with are of course proprietary and not open source, so you will not even be able to benefit from their experience, or learn from their setup.

 

The problem usually is that most MMORPG frameworks do not sport very good graphics engines, and vice versa, good graphics engines do not sport a good MMORPG framework. Especially UDK and unreal 3 scales horribly with open worlds out of the box, its primarily an FPS engine. It has severe texture-streaming issues on large maps/zones.

Source for example can be used, but only with a lot of instancing (Vindictus).

Thats why most big companies either code their own engine or have to heavily mod an existing engine which you need significant knowledge of, a student or amateur should probably not touch it.

Which is why I've heard wonders about Hero Engine, which is surprisingly free now :O

I have to give props to the Hero Engine people. Their move to make it free (ish) is phenominal and a huge step forward in the gaming industry.

Unfortunately for a 2D MMORPG (what I'm making) the developers of Hero Engine told me I'm better off slitting my wrists than trying to make a 2D MMORPG with their engine. (Just kidding; they said it would be significantly easier to just go pure 2D and code it myself than to alter their code and pay for their source)

This all depends on how flexible Hero is.

In the sense of "how easy can it be modded without being a programmer with 10 years experience". I've seen what game design schools offer in programming classes, and what private schools offer in their programming classes, and those are not sufficient to scratch the surface of an engine like Hero.

If Hero out of the box is essentially "WoW Maker 2000" this gives us nothing. If its flexible enough to support different playstyles than tab-target for example or world-interaction with physics then yes we can talk about it being a step forward.

From your last line i expect the engine to be rather inflexible.

You know what? You're entirely right, I didn't even think about that.

Ewwwwwwww, Hero Engine? It's probably ewwww :P

I wouldn't be surprised if it was WoW Maker 2000 until you payed the ridiculous price for the source code, only to find out you're better off editing your own :P

I don't like other people's code...it's sooo....weird! The lack of my own formatting in their code annoys the hell outta me, lol...

For my money i would really want to call a lawyer to ask exactly what does:

'one that would only be created with help from fans' means legally

They give you the full lot, everything, for free. IF you get it through HeroCloud and give them 30% revenue, which isn't an issue for the vast majority.

Oooh, brave statement:

A server will be ...blah blah

...In the meantime, until you receive the confirmation email, please dive into the wiki and the forums to learn everything there is to know about the HeroEngine. The engine is the most powerful tool out there, but is also very complex. The engine can make any game you are capable of engineering. Please don't hesitate to contact me if you have any questions or issues..

WAIT A SECOND!!!

ok help me understand. This guy got $400,000 from people in 10 hours and is not legally obligated to do anything at all.

or a worst just create any random game.

do people get procedes from the sales?

what does 'feedback from fans' mean legally exactly?

oh man I wish I had thought of this....

Player housing like SWG

Sold and...soooollld

Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by Vegetto

Then again alot of the big name MMOs out and coming out are using existing FPS engines, such as Crytek, Unreal, Hero (RPG one).

Such as SWTOR, they bought Hero before it was complete, undocumented, uncommented, unoptimized and not for sale hahah. They just got some unfinished source code and adapted it, hence why SWTOR is..ahem...limited in ways, just feels like a damn mod to me lol.

But i think buying an engine license at some level then modding it is so much easier than somehow making one from scratch, i personally wouldn't be able to get my head around the scope of that.

The problem with engines like Cryengine or Unreal is that they are not natively made to run an MMO environment.

There is significant work in "modding" (i would even say -rewriting-) parts of the engine to handle it. If you do not have the technical know-how you will fail. People heavily underestimate the work that goes into that.

The solutions that these companies come up with are of course proprietary and not open source, so you will not even be able to benefit from their experience, or learn from their setup.

 

The problem usually is that most MMORPG frameworks do not sport very good graphics engines, and vice versa, good graphics engines do not sport a good MMORPG framework. Especially UDK and unreal 3 scales horribly with open worlds out of the box, its primarily an FPS engine. It has severe texture-streaming issues on large maps/zones.

Source for example can be used, but only with a lot of instancing (Vindictus).

Thats why most big companies either code their own engine or have to heavily mod an existing engine which you need significant knowledge of, a student or amateur should probably not touch it.

Which is why I've heard wonders about Hero Engine, which is surprisingly free now :O

I have to give props to the Hero Engine people. Their move to make it free (ish) is phenominal and a huge step forward in the gaming industry.

Unfortunately for a 2D MMORPG (what I'm making) the developers of Hero Engine told me I'm better off slitting my wrists than trying to make a 2D MMORPG with their engine. (Just kidding; they said it would be significantly easier to just go pure 2D and code it myself than to alter their code and pay for their source)

This all depends on how flexible Hero is.

In the sense of "how easy can it be modded without being a programmer with 10 years experience". I've seen what game design schools offer in programming classes, and what private schools offer in their programming classes, and those are not sufficient to scratch the surface of an engine like Hero.

If Hero out of the box is essentially "WoW Maker 2000" this gives us nothing. If its flexible enough to support different playstyles than tab-target for example or world-interaction with physics then yes we can talk about it being a step forward.

From your last line i expect the engine to be rather inflexible.

 

PS: Did you try Eclipse?

Eclipse = Ewwww????

 

From what I saw anyway. I deal in high resolution 2D graphics and Eclipse requires a maximum of a ridiculous like.... 64x64 sprites? Something laughable, and they have to fit inside that resolution so they can't be varying frame size variations.

I didn't look too much into it though, and heard it was open source.

My PS wasnt a suggestion, more of a question, since i was curious if someone tried it and actually has experience with the toolset.

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by Vegetto

Then again alot of the big name MMOs out and coming out are using existing FPS engines, such as Crytek, Unreal, Hero (RPG one).

Such as SWTOR, they bought Hero before it was complete, undocumented, uncommented, unoptimized and not for sale hahah. They just got some unfinished source code and adapted it, hence why SWTOR is..ahem...limited in ways, just feels like a damn mod to me lol.

But i think buying an engine license at some level then modding it is so much easier than somehow making one from scratch, i personally wouldn't be able to get my head around the scope of that.

The problem with engines like Cryengine or Unreal is that they are not natively made to run an MMO environment.

There is significant work in "modding" (i would even say -rewriting-) parts of the engine to handle it. If you do not have the technical know-how you will fail. People heavily underestimate the work that goes into that.

The solutions that these companies come up with are of course proprietary and not open source, so you will not even be able to benefit from their experience, or learn from their setup.

 

The problem usually is that most MMORPG frameworks do not sport very good graphics engines, and vice versa, good graphics engines do not sport a good MMORPG framework. Especially UDK and unreal 3 scales horribly with open worlds out of the box, its primarily an FPS engine. It has severe texture-streaming issues on large maps/zones.

Source for example can be used, but only with a lot of instancing (Vindictus).

Thats why most big companies either code their own engine or have to heavily mod an existing engine which you need significant knowledge of, a student or amateur should probably not touch it.

Which is why I've heard wonders about Hero Engine, which is surprisingly free now :O

I have to give props to the Hero Engine people. Their move to make it free (ish) is phenominal and a huge step forward in the gaming industry.

Unfortunately for a 2D MMORPG (what I'm making) the developers of Hero Engine told me I'm better off slitting my wrists than trying to make a 2D MMORPG with their engine. (Just kidding; they said it would be significantly easier to just go pure 2D and code it myself than to alter their code and pay for their source)

This all depends on how flexible Hero is.

In the sense of "how easy can it be modded without being a programmer with 10 years experience". I've seen what game design schools offer in programming classes, and what private schools offer in their programming classes, and those are not sufficient to scratch the surface of an engine like Hero.

If Hero out of the box is essentially "WoW Maker 2000" this gives us nothing. If its flexible enough to support different playstyles than tab-target for example or world-interaction with physics then yes we can talk about it being a step forward.

From your last line i expect the engine to be rather inflexible.

 

PS: Did you try Eclipse?

Eclipse = Ewwww????

 

From what I saw anyway. I deal in high resolution 2D graphics and Eclipse requires a maximum of a ridiculous like.... 64x64 sprites? Something laughable, and they have to fit inside that resolution so they can't be varying frame size variations.

I didn't look too much into it though, and heard it was open source.

My PS wasnt a suggestion, more of a question, since i was curious if someone tried it and actually has experience with the toolset.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by Vegetto

Then again alot of the big name MMOs out and coming out are using existing FPS engines, such as Crytek, Unreal, Hero (RPG one).

Such as SWTOR, they bought Hero before it was complete, undocumented, uncommented, unoptimized and not for sale hahah. They just got some unfinished source code and adapted it, hence why SWTOR is..ahem...limited in ways, just feels like a damn mod to me lol.

But i think buying an engine license at some level then modding it is so much easier than somehow making one from scratch, i personally wouldn't be able to get my head around the scope of that.

The problem with engines like Cryengine or Unreal is that they are not natively made to run an MMO environment.

There is significant work in "modding" (i would even say -rewriting-) parts of the engine to handle it. If you do not have the technical know-how you will fail. People heavily underestimate the work that goes into that.

The solutions that these companies come up with are of course proprietary and not open source, so you will not even be able to benefit from their experience, or learn from their setup.

 

The problem usually is that most MMORPG frameworks do not sport very good graphics engines, and vice versa, good graphics engines do not sport a good MMORPG framework. Especially UDK and unreal 3 scales horribly with open worlds out of the box, its primarily an FPS engine. It has severe texture-streaming issues on large maps/zones.

Source for example can be used, but only with a lot of instancing (Vindictus).

Thats why most big companies either code their own engine or have to heavily mod an existing engine which you need significant knowledge of, a student or amateur should probably not touch it.

Which is why I've heard wonders about Hero Engine, which is surprisingly free now :O

I have to give props to the Hero Engine people. Their move to make it free (ish) is phenominal and a huge step forward in the gaming industry.

Unfortunately for a 2D MMORPG (what I'm making) the developers of Hero Engine told me I'm better off slitting my wrists than trying to make a 2D MMORPG with their engine. (Just kidding; they said it would be significantly easier to just go pure 2D and code it myself than to alter their code and pay for their source)

This all depends on how flexible Hero is.

In the sense of "how easy can it be modded without being a programmer with 10 years experience". I've seen what game design schools offer in programming classes, and what private schools offer in their programming classes, and those are not sufficient to scratch the surface of an engine like Hero.

If Hero out of the box is essentially "WoW Maker 2000" this gives us nothing. If its flexible enough to support different playstyles than tab-target for example or world-interaction with physics then yes we can talk about it being a step forward.

From your last line i expect the engine to be rather inflexible.

 

PS: Did you try Eclipse?

Eclipse = Ewwww????

 

From what I saw anyway. I deal in high resolution 2D graphics and Eclipse requires a maximum of a ridiculous like.... 64x64 sprites? Something laughable, and they have to fit inside that resolution so they can't be varying frame size variations.

I didn't look too much into it though, and heard it was open source.

My PS wasnt a suggestion, more of a question, since i was curious if someone tried it and actually has experience with the toolset.

 

My friend has used it to make his game.

Eclipse, Elysium, Mirage, VBGore... an interesting set of tools to  play with but they've all become so dated that it's almost disappointing to try to use them.

Originally posted by Vegetto

Player housing like SWG

Sold and...soooollld

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

WAIT A SECOND!!!

ok help me understand. This guy got $400,000 from people in 10 hours and is not legally obligated to do anything at all.

or a worst just create any random game.

do people get procedes from the sales?

what does 'feedback from fans' mean legally exactly?

 

oh man I wish I had thought of this....