Originally posted by Moaky07

I dont understand why if the OP was going to make alts, at least one of them wasnt the opposite faction.

 

That would open ya up to the opposite sides flashpoints.

 

Oh well....maybe a RP thing with them. Although I prefer being the good guy, and spend more time on my republic chars, I still get my empire kick on as well.

 I also have two republic characters

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by DJJazzy

So you repeat quests and that makes it different than all of the other mmos how?

the fact that they designed the planets to be so linear so phased so uninspired you have no desire to actually go through them multiple times/

Right because all other MMO content is so insprired?

I think the point is that the PVE leveling path is very linear, with few alternative paths due to lack of redundant content. (One big reason WoW was such a success was that even in Vanilla, there was plenty of redundancy, which allowed you to chart a leveling path through different combinations of zones that allowed you to have fresh content for a number of alts before you had seen almost everything). Also, as noted, the world zones in SWTOR are just incredibly "blah". In good MMOs, the zones will be "cool" enough that you want to play through them more than once. Not the case for many people here with TOR.

Of course, there is also the matter of the "distinct, class based story lines". Many were led to believe that there was over a hundred hours (or even two hundred hours) of story content unique to each class, but that just is not the case. Much of the story content is shared by the other classes of the same faction and the amount that is actually unique to a class is fairly sparse. So, even though you might have 20 hours of new story for an alternate class, you have way too much in the way of "re-runs", which for many make subsequent alt experiences feel like retreads. (This also really highlights how  linear the game is. Any illusion of meaningful choice goes out the window when you play an alt and realize that the non-class specific content plays out the same, even if you make very different choices).

It's nice to have alternatives to leveling, like PVE and the space mini-game, as well as the small group instances, but in my own experience, these were all pretty lackluster and were not up to par with even mediocre MMORPG competition. If the developers were relying on these things to extend the game experience and enhance replayability, they should have done a much better job with the design and implimentation.

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by DJJazzy

So you repeat quests and that makes it different than all of the other mmos how?

the fact that they designed the planets to be so linear so phased so uninspired you have no desire to actually go through them multiple times/

I felt the same way in WoW. It is no different. Perhaps games like EVE are diferent, they are, but most of the themepark mmos are made exactly the same. 

Only thing I can think of here is that people get conversation fatigue. In other games you just click and go but in SWTOR, even if just spacebarring, it will take a lot longer to get the actual quest.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by DJJazzy

So you repeat quests and that makes it different than all of the other mmos how?

the fact that they designed the planets to be so linear so phased so uninspired you have no desire to actually go through them multiple times/

Right because all other MMO content is so insprired?

I have never ever played a AAA mmo that had this much of a bland planet design or had such heavily phased linear zones. It does'nt take much to make it show the dev's put some work into the zones and I don't get the feeling in this game at all

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by DJJazzy

Originally posted by Distopia

At 40, I've not done more than 5 (maybe less) side-quests (non-class) through my journey thus far. Haven't done a single FP either, I have plenty of content left for a second play-through. Did this on purpose BTW as I wanted to save content for a second play-through if I was bored once I hit cap.

One thing I do wish was that pvp gave more experience. It's quite a grind if you try to level just by pvping.

Yeah it's taking a while, a little over a month leveling this way, as I've been switching it up between PVP, daily quests (PVP/space) and doing class quests. I have no complaints about it though, I've had fun.

Class quests will give roughly 10-15% of an xp bar per level.  Doing the rest via repeatables is an incredible grind without PvP.  You would need to grind the same two flashpoint 4-5 time per level for probably about 3 levels.

Doing it via PvP would be an incredible grind for people who do not think SWTOR PvP is very good or who do not like PvP at all.

Isn't it claimed by most people that SWTOR's main selling point is that its a great PvE game?

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by DJJazzy

So you repeat quests and that makes it different than all of the other mmos how?

the fact that they designed the planets to be so linear so phased so uninspired you have no desire to actually go through them multiple times/

Right because all other MMO content is so insprired?

I have never ever played a AAA mmo that had this bland planet design or had such heavily phased linear zones. It does'nt take much to make it show the dev's put some work into the zones and I don't get the feeling in this game at all

I completely disagree, to me TOR's planets actually look as though an artist designed them, compared to so many games that use copy and pasted terrain over and over again.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by DJJazzy

So you repeat quests and that makes it different than all of the other mmos how?

the fact that they designed the planets to be so linear so phased so uninspired you have no desire to actually go through them multiple times/

Right because all other MMO content is so insprired?

I have never ever played a AAA mmo that had this bland planet design or had such heavily phased linear zones. It does'nt take much to make it show the dev's put some work into the zones and I don't get the feeling in this game at all

I completely disagree, to me TOR's planets actually look as though an artist designed them, compared to so many games that use copy and pasted terrain over and over again.

differn't strokes I guess but I found myself so uninterested in balmorra I actually couldn't even get past the planet on my sith sorc and the fact there was never more than 40 people on the planet didn't help

I just hit the wall with TOR and not sure if i'll resub for another month. The reason, apart from all the problems mentioned above, is that my 34th level Jedi Sentinel is now on Balmorra, a planet my Sith Sorcerer completed all the quests on at 23rd. I arrived by shuttle in the familiar Bugtown and my heart sank, and the first few quests were killing bugs (the same type of quests my Sith had ended with on Balmorra and it was a grind first time around). Ok so now i'm fighting the Imps, and i'm 11 levels higher, but the quests, mobs and areas are all essentially the same. I couldn't believe it. How boring.

It's mmo groundhog day and it's the worst example of lazy development i've ever seen in an mmo.

Originally posted by sanosukex

differn't strokes I guess but I found myself so uninterested in balmorra I actually couldn't even get past the planet on my sith sorc

It's even worse when you end up going back with a Rep character 11 levels later. I felt like cutting my throat... lol.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by DJJazzy

So you repeat quests and that makes it different than all of the other mmos how?

the fact that they designed the planets to be so linear so phased so uninspired you have no desire to actually go through them multiple times/

Right because all other MMO content is so insprired?

Actually yes.

There are zones in many MMOs that many people find extremely likeable and inspiring.  The Shire in LOTRO is great example, but there are a number of others.  I rarely got that feeling in any SWTOR zone.  And zome planets people down right hate, like Taris.

The only thing I particularly like about any of the SWTOR zones besides Hoth which I somewhat like for no particular reason, is the datacron hunting.

I bet you a beer you could get a pretty good list going if you made a thread of MMORPG zone people found inspiring and  I bet you, you would get double the results from LOTRO, WOW, and Vanguard that you did from SWTOR.  Or least if you did it a year from when all the fanbois have lost their ardor.

Originally posted by Matt_UK

I just hit the wall with TOR and not sure if i'll resub for another month. The reason, apart from all the problems mentioned above, is that my 34th level Jedi Sentinel is now on Balmorra, a planet my Sith Sorcerer completed all the quests on at 23rd. I arrived by shuttle in the familiar Bugtown and my heart sank, and the first few quests were killing bugs (the same type of quests my Sith had ended with on Balmorra and it was a grind first time around). Ok so now i'm fighting the Imps, and i'm 11 levels higher, but the quests, mobs and areas are all essentially the same. I couldn't believe it. How boring.

It's mmo groundhog day and it's the worst example of lazy development i've ever seen in an mmo.

Well I actually agree with this. Although when I went back to Taris on my Imperial it did feel quite a bit different than when I went through on my republic character. So maybe it's only Balmorra that they did this with.

Around level 20 or so I quit doing quests except the class quests. I ran a lot of PvP,FPs, and space missions. Got to about 42 that way...

I tried leveling alts, but lvl 10s werent welcome or very useful in PvP and space missions...well..yeah...

There are a lot of quests available though, you could probably do a few alts and not do all the quests. Light/side dark side choices can make the same quests mildly different.

Either way there is content for alts. I personally wasn't motivated to do it though.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by DJJazzy

So you repeat quests and that makes it different than all of the other mmos how?

the fact that they designed the planets to be so linear so phased so uninspired you have no desire to actually go through them multiple times/

Right because all other MMO content is so insprired?

Almost all other mmos have better zone design. Rift was very well designed, and LOTRO is pratically epic in scale compared to the dirt quarries that make up most of ToR.

Originally posted by gestalt11

Originally posted by udon

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by udon

 

The game has many times more replayability than any other MMO I have played on release day.  If you don't want to do the quests over again than don't.  Do instances, group quests, space combat or PVP and you will level quickly doing any of those.  And if all that isn't enough go play the other faction and get a 100% new set of quests.

Honestly what more would it have taken to keep you from complaining?  Because I have a hard time seeing any game company releasing a new MMO with more content than what SW:TOR has today.  It's hands above what EQ2, WoW, LOTR, etc. had at launch.

its not always about just the content.. its about making the content that's their enjoyable ot play through many times.. to me the planets were just so dull, boring, and so heavily phased going through them multiple times felt like a chore. 

I have played a large number of MMO's on launch day and for me anyways SW:TOR is the first one that I accually was able to level mulitple toons though the content without giving up halfway though the second toon.  I have 2 level 50's and 2 mid 20's right now, all empire and am still enjoying the experience.  Although I will say that I am spending a lot more time doing instances, PVP and space combat on my 20's so I can pick and choose what planets I spend time on.  

Some planets I like a lot more than others but I am also pretty sure if someone did a poll of favorite planets the results would be pretty even so I'm not going to hold it against Bioware for trying to make the planets feel different.

Dude, in order to "pick and choose what planet I do".  You have to literally grind an ass ton of non-quest stuff.  Each planet is roughly 3-5 levels (although quesh is very brief in comparison).

PvP in SWTOR is awful, IMO.  Also many people do not even like PvP in general.  Acting like that is a sufficient answer is BS.

Anyone claiming they are doing significantly leveling through space combat is doing tons and tons of missions.  The repeatables do not give the same xp as the initial mission.  There are only about 6 unique missions by level 35.  Completely one space mission the first time give similar XP to 1 quest.  1 quest.

In addition to that, I did all the space mission on my character so the progression I mentioned in my first post is with Space Combat in cluded but not grinded.  And grinding space missions is terrible xp.

 

In SWTOR when you first leave Dromund Kass on your class quest you given a fake choice between two planets to continue your class quest.  One planet is a level 16 quest the other planet is a level 20 quest.  There is no choice they just give you two quests to make it appear as if it worked like KOTOR games.  Then they completely discard the BS illusion after that and your class quest is completely linear is both appearance and function rather than just function.

 

Anyone not griding instances and mostly leveling by quests. Is not skipping any planet.  And griding instances IS NOT A FRESH  experience.

 

The only way you can make this fantasy work is by claiming that grinding the same thing over and over = replayability.  Its BS.

 

 

If you do all the group quests on a planet that will equal about one extra level.  Those are repeatable daily but lets just say you do them once.  The space missions even if you only do the dailies will be a full extra level at lower levels and about half a level at higher ones repeatable daily.  Every planet has a flashpoint instance around the same level that if you do can easily make near a whole level.  Even without PVP you could easily skip every other planet in this game and just go to the planet to complete you class quest (1-2 hours max if you at the high end of the level content).  All that isn't even looking at PVP which even if all you do is the daily quests will be a significant amount of XP.

People who complain about SW:TOR not having enough content are just to lazy to look for it or want it handed to them on a nice dungeon finder interface.  I played EQ2 day 1 and finding content from 1-50 solo was impossible.  Duengons were a grind that you had to do for if you were lucky 10% of a level every time the timers could be reset and there was no PVP queue or XP.  Newer theampark MMO's have plently of solo content but SW:TOR still has them all beat for at launch content by a mile IMO.

Sandbox MMO's are a different story but since SW:TOR isn't a sandbox and never has pretended to want to be a sandbox comparing them to each other would be like comparing Skyrim to Modern Warfare.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by sanosukex

snip

I have never ever played a AAA mmo that had this bland planet design or had such heavily phased linear zones. It does'nt take much to make it show the dev's put some work into the zones and I don't get the feeling in this game at all

I completely disagree, to me TOR's planets actually look as though an artist designed them, compared to so many games that use copy and pasted terrain over and over again.

I agree with you here.  I think the zones are really well designed.  However, the npcs and mobs inside them are a bit too stagnant for my taste however.  This is not a dealbreaker for me by any stretch, but it is something that I would like to see improved.  More life to the world would be great.

To respond to the OP.  I'm on my 4th alt right now.  On my first char, I almost had to skip entire planets because I was outleveling content.  I skipped most of the bonus content.  I also skipped most of Alderaan, Nar Shadaa Belsavis and a lot of Hoth.  Now on my alts, I won't skip these planets, I will skip those that I've already done.  There's so much content that for me, it's going to take at least 2 alts (probably 3) to see it all.  This is in 1 faction only.  It will take another 2-3 chars to see all the content in the other faction.

Originally posted by Matt_UK

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by DJJazzy

So you repeat quests and that makes it different than all of the other mmos how?

the fact that they designed the planets to be so linear so phased so uninspired you have no desire to actually go through them multiple times/

Right because all other MMO content is so insprired?

 

Almost all other mmos have better zone design. Rift was very well designed, and LOTRO is pratically epic in scale compared to the dirt quarries that make up most of ToR.

Hmm, I thought Rift felt pretty corridor like as well. I agree about LotRO though.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by DJJazzy

So you repeat quests and that makes it different than all of the other mmos how?

the fact that they designed the planets to be so linear so phased so uninspired you have no desire to actually go through them multiple times/

Right because all other MMO content is so insprired?

I have never ever played a AAA mmo that had this bland planet design or had such heavily phased linear zones. It does'nt take much to make it show the dev's put some work into the zones and I don't get the feeling in this game at all

I completely disagree, to me TOR's planets actually look as though an artist designed them, compared to so many games that use copy and pasted terrain over and over again.

Some of the look of parts of the planets are good.  I rather like the background mountains on Aldaraan.  But the feel of the zones is often pretty meh.

There is a reason people talk about "look and feel" of an application.  I don't find the "look" of SWTOR zone to be bad (I am sure some do as its highly subjective) but the feel starts to get INCREDIBLY bland.  Painfully so.

Seriously by the time I did dromund kaas the 3rd time I could have written a bot to do it all for me and that would be able to play every other persons character on the server and that bot would have behaved 90% to same as most players simply because there are no real options outside of datacron hunting strange paths.

Originally posted by DJJazzy

Originally posted by Matt_UK

I just hit the wall with TOR and not sure if i'll resub for another month. The reason, apart from all the problems mentioned above, is that my 34th level Jedi Sentinel is now on Balmorra, a planet my Sith Sorcerer completed all the quests on at 23rd. I arrived by shuttle in the familiar Bugtown and my heart sank, and the first few quests were killing bugs (the same type of quests my Sith had ended with on Balmorra and it was a grind first time around). Ok so now i'm fighting the Imps, and i'm 11 levels higher, but the quests, mobs and areas are all essentially the same. I couldn't believe it. How boring.

It's mmo groundhog day and it's the worst example of lazy development i've ever seen in an mmo.

Well I actually agree with this. Although when I went back to Taris on my Imperial it did feel quite a bit different than when I went through on my republic character. So maybe it's only Balmorra that they did this with.

The best planets are the ones split into two, like Tatooine, where you can actually bump into other factions. On Balmorra I felt like I was in an alternate universe, and i'm still not sure how the republic map relates to the imp map, it's almost like a different time zone, it felt very weird.

Originally posted by DJJazzy

Originally posted by Matt_UK

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by DJJazzy

So you repeat quests and that makes it different than all of the other mmos how?

the fact that they designed the planets to be so linear so phased so uninspired you have no desire to actually go through them multiple times/

Right because all other MMO content is so insprired?

 

Almost all other mmos have better zone design. Rift was very well designed, and LOTRO is pratically epic in scale compared to the dirt quarries that make up most of ToR.

Hmm, I thought Rift felt pretty corridor like as well. I agree about LotRO though.

Yeah I agree, corridors, but nice looking corridors.