Forums and posts - thousands of them so I thought I would toss my op in the mix.

Bioware - I am a 66 year old retired game designer (PnP). I looked forward to the new SWTOR, played a couple Betas, bought the DDE and am now playing. I want to congratulate you on a job well done. Are there some problems and bugs? Sure - just like EVERY OTHER MMO EVER LAUNCHED! I still like and have fun because the positive aspects of the game outweigh the negatives - by far - for me. Others who have different opinions state them, often, repeatedly, loudly and range from plain disappointment (normal) to outraged quitting obscenity. Puzzled as to why anyone would go thru so much time and effort, again repeatedly, to bash a simple video game, but have decided that it is simply some form of human nature.

Just as 'NEWS' organizations give priority to horrifying and 'bad' news, so do review organizations do the same. What works for the reputable news works for the new guys on the block as well. I decided to post instead of playing right now cause I have to go walk the dogs first. Then I will resume my game being a very lucky retired person who can play as much as I like.

And I like playing SWTOR. I have 3 characters, Jedi Knight, Smuggler and a new Trooper. Have some Empire characters I am looking forward to playing. I know the bug fixes and updates are coming, not really worried. So once again, well done Bioware and I am enjoying the game.

Nice friendly post about the game.  Good to see.   I'm currently enjoying the game as well.  I think Bioware did a nice job with the story lines.  Do I think I'll play this game long term?  Probably not.  My husband and I just bought 60 day time cards, after that, we'll see.

It is not human nature to put the game down and a lot of negative comments are not to 'bash' the game. But to warn others away.

I am part of this forum to communicate with fellow hobbyists. Part of this is the exchanging of opinions and information.

Mine being: If you want a good PvE game buy it if you want a good PvP game take your money elsewhere. If you want ingenuity, graphics, gameplay, polish, fewer bugs wait for their patches in 3-6 months and check it out again.

I know that 90% of my Guild mates would not enjoy this game (PvP Guild) and have advised them to stay clear, for now. On this forums I simply advise fellow PvP'ers caution there is exceptionally little.

Originally posted by garry

Forums and posts - thousands of them so I thought I would toss my op in the mix.

 

Bioware - I am a 66 year old retired game designer (PnP). I looked forward to the new SWTOR, played a couple Betas, bought the DDE and am now playing. I want to congratulate you on a job well done. Are there some problems and bugs? Sure - just like EVERY OTHER MMO EVER LAUNCHED! I still like and have fun because the positive aspects of the game outweigh the negatives - by far - for me. Others who have different opinions state them, often, repeatedly, loudly and range from plain disappointment (normal) to outraged quitting obscenity. Puzzled as to why anyone would go thru so much time and effort, again repeatedly, to bash a simple video game, but have decided that it is simply some form of human nature.

 

Just as 'NEWS' organizations give priority to horrifying and 'bad' news, so do review organizations do the same. What works for the reputable news works for the new guys on the block as well. I decided to post instead of playing right now cause I have to go walk the dogs first. Then I will resume my game being a very lucky retired person who can play as much as I like.

 

And I like playing SWTOR. I have 3 characters, Jedi Knight, Smuggler and a new Trooper. Have some Empire characters I am looking forward to playing. I know the bug fixes and updates are coming, not really worried. So once again, well done Bioware and I am enjoying the game.

I think it is good you enjoy the game, as well as your hobby.  I also like the fact you decided to post something positive.   (. . . and here comes the 'but')   But I can also understand why some folks were let down.  While i wont stick up for those simply lashing out angrily, I will say there is the possibility that many players were hoping for an open world and more innovative gameplay to go along with the story.  

Those players are being negative because they are disappointed, and perhaps like some disappointed parent, they are calling one of their children a loser.  That child (swtor for the ultra-casual) may in fact be a loser, but it did finish high school and does deserve credit for trying.  

I hope SWTOR makes good and eventually opens up their world.  I can only imagine the pressure of timing a product just right, especially a triple A mmorpg title.  So in the good spirit of the OP, I wish Bioware luck in bettering their product, and congratulate them on accomplishing a major project.

Originally posted by Durray

On this forums I simply advise fellow PvP'ers caution there is exceptionally little.

I don't know about exceptionally little... seems to be right on par with the standard PvP for theme park MMO's.  3 Warzones (Battlegrounds) with more on the way, that can be done from level 10 and up. There's worlds like Alderaan with overlapping Empire/Republic  areas for plenty of pvp on pvp servers, not to mention an area that is specifically for FFA PvP and will flag you whether on a pvp server or not.

There a planet in the later levels that is entirely for pvp as far as I've been told. I'm sure there's some pve objectives thrown in, too, but meh. 

Seems fine to me.  I can't see how a pvper couldn't roll on a pvp server and find a load of it.

But I'm more into pve with some pvp on the side, so I guess it wouldn't matter as much to me. Either way, "exceptionally little" seems to be an exaggeration.

Originally posted by Durray

It is not human nature to put the game down and a lot of negative comments are not to 'bash' the game. But to warn others away.

I am part of this forum to communicate with fellow hobbyists. Part of this is the exchanging of opinions and information.

Mine being: If you want a good PvE game buy it if you want a good PvP game take your money elsewhere. If you want ingenuity, graphics, gameplay, polish, fewer bugs wait for their patches in 3-6 months and check it out again.

I know that 90% of my Guild mates would not enjoy this game (PvP Guild) and have advised them to stay clear, for now. On this forums I simply advise fellow PvP'ers caution there is exceptionally little.

Reality check, it is, and forum history of certain individuals reveals that. 90% of the guild I was in felt completely the opposite and are having a great time in game.

I am sorry but I don't approve of the original posters message though, of course, he has every right to make it.

I don't think the problems of this game can just be corrected by 'bug fixes' and 'updates'. I think they require a major systemic overhaul fo the game. By congratulating Bioware now, you reinforce a mindset in the company that may  think everything can be solved by superficial and cosmetic tweaks, and that they need not invest time and resources in making a better game, either by correcting this one or making new ones in the future,

On a higher level, your approval encourages designers to think they can get away by palming off limited, restricted, unimaginative, 'smaller' games on purchasers and subscribers - many of whom are children - while charging not just the same but extortionately more.

What's worse, you're a game designer yourself - so you say - so you know that these issues are real - and that you should know better.

OP, if you are as old as you say, let me clear it up for you this way. This game is the Edsel of the gaming world.

Like you, many drove the car around and enjoyed it, but it was still a tragic mistake. It was said, like this game, to be the right game for the wrong time. This game would have been epic, in 2005-07, today...meh.

the thing is

Praises are boring

Bashings are amusing

Well written and well said. 

In the end, the ONLY thing that matters about a game, is whether or not we have fun. I understand some people had their excpectations dashed, and did not like the end result.

I love it. Sure, there are some things I would change, that is true of every MMORPG I play. Sure, I wish it were better recieved by folks on this site, not that it matters to me.

If the game were taken from me tomorrow, I would feel I got my money's worth of entertainment out of it. Like you, having fun.

"Puzzled as to why anyone would go thru so much time and effort, again repeatedly, to bash a simple video game, but have decided that it is simply some form of human nature. "

  Because people feel like they were duped, IF BW started giving money back to disatisfied customers you would see the seething lake of hatred dry up. THAT is what it comes down to, the "Industry" pulled another fast one on the gaming community another WAR on us. You should understand that, you saw the same thing going on as we all did. Remember EA Louse and the hatchet job EA /BW pulled on the guy? Turns out he was right , in his three paragraphs he wrote on SWTOR he described the game to a "T". Why the hatchet job?

  It's guys like you I don't understand. You made PnPer games , you should know better. You should be able to understand the difference between a quality game and thrown together crap. IF the game is freakin' great why are you taking the time away from it? Why aren't you on the official forums sharing game knowledge? NO instead you are here trying to defend a bad game. Opinion? Nope fact . On every technical metric one would use TOR scores low, that's a fact, that is how one dtermines if a game is "Good" or " Bad". YOU can like a bad game BUT that doesn't make it good.

  No amount of manufactured "Fan" support is going to change that this game is bad. IF the game was so great there would far fewer people singing it's praises outside the game and it's official forums.

Originally posted by garry

Forums and posts - thousands of them so I thought I would toss my op in the mix.

 

Bioware - I am a 66 year old retired game designer (PnP). I looked forward to the new SWTOR, played a couple Betas, bought the DDE and am now playing. I want to congratulate you on a job well done. Are there some problems and bugs? Sure - just like EVERY OTHER MMO EVER LAUNCHED! I still like and have fun because the positive aspects of the game outweigh the negatives - by far - for me. Others who have different opinions state them, often, repeatedly, loudly and range from plain disappointment (normal) to outraged quitting obscenity. Puzzled as to why anyone would go thru so much time and effort, again repeatedly, to bash a simple video game, but have decided that it is simply some form of human nature.

 

Just as 'NEWS' organizations give priority to horrifying and 'bad' news, so do review organizations do the same. What works for the reputable news works for the new guys on the block as well. I decided to post instead of playing right now cause I have to go walk the dogs first. Then I will resume my game being a very lucky retired person who can play as much as I like.

 

And I like playing SWTOR. I have 3 characters, Jedi Knight, Smuggler and a new Trooper. Have some Empire characters I am looking forward to playing. I know the bug fixes and updates are coming, not really worried. So once again, well done Bioware and I am enjoying the game.

Good post, Thanks.

Originally posted by Theodwulf

 No amount of manufactured "Fan" support is going to change that this game is bad. IF the game was so great there would far fewer people singing it's praises outside the game and it's official forums.

Oh so cynical. Lots of players like the game. Obviously 1.7 million thought the game was good enough to keep playing for an additional month.

If you go over to IGN and look at the user comments about SWTOR on there, most people love the game. This forum is just full of burnt out MMO players who didnt want more of the same, which is all that SWTOR ever promised. There are a lot of MMO newbies playing SWTOR that just love the Star Wars IP and dont care that there is no significant difference to any other MMO out there, or that the game is a themepark and not a sandbox.

What people on this forum need to realise is that they are not the majority by any stretch of the imagination. The games they love are lucky to have more than 100k subscribers. Why should Bioware cater to that when they can get 1.7 million with a themepark?

Originally posted by Theodwulf

"Puzzled as to why anyone would go thru so much time and effort, again repeatedly, to bash a simple video game, but have decided that it is simply some form of human nature. "

 

  Because people feel like they were duped, IF BW started giving money back to disatisfied customers you would see the seething lake of hatred dry up. THAT is what it comes down to, the "Industry" pulled another fast one on the gaming community another WAR on us. You should understand that, you saw the same thing going on as we all did. Remember EA Louse and the hatchet job EA /BW pulled on the guy? Turns out he was right , in his three paragraphs he wrote on SWTOR he described the game to a "T". Why the hatchet job?

 

  It's guys like you I don't understand. You made PnPer games , you should know better. You should be able to understand the difference between a quality game and thrown together crap. IF the game is freakin' great why are you taking the time away from it? Why aren't you on the official forums sharing game knowledge? NO instead you are here trying to defend a bad game. Opinion? Nope fact . On every technical metric one would use TOR scores low, that's a fact, that is how one dtermines if a game is "Good" or " Bad". YOU can like a bad game BUT that doesn't make it good.

 

  No amount of manufactured "Fan" support is going to change that this game is bad. IF the game was so great there would far fewer people singing it's praises outside the game and it's official forums.

+1 

good post , the only think I am dissapointed in is the Space game, but knowing bioware it will come and the sooner the better LOL. good job poster and Bioware

Originally posted by Gajari

Originally posted by Durray

On this forums I simply advise fellow PvP'ers caution there is exceptionally little.

I don't know about exceptionally little... seems to be right on par with the standard PvP for theme park MMO's.  3 Warzones (Battlegrounds) with more on the way, that can be done from level 10 and up. There's worlds like Alderaan with overlapping Empire/Republic  areas for plenty of pvp on pvp servers, not to mention an area that is specifically for FFA PvP and will flag you whether on a pvp server or not.

There a planet in the later levels that is entirely for pvp as far as I've been told. I'm sure there's some pve objectives thrown in, too, but meh. 

Seems fine to me.  I can't see how a pvper couldn't roll on a pvp server and find a load of it.

But I'm more into pve with some pvp on the side, so I guess it wouldn't matter as much to me. Either way, "exceptionally little" seems to be an exaggeration.

Personally I do not think it is an exaggeration. I suppose it is what you compare it to. I came from Aion which has massive open world PvP going on around 18 hours a day, 9 abyss fortress, 4 Balaurea fortresses (sieging around twice a day) and now battle grounds I think its around 6. I do not really like battlegrounds, too confined and dull so am unsure of exact number.

This is my mind was not enough PvP for a AAA MMO. Most of the community thought so and they are now adding even more PvP content in 3.0! I was tired of what I saw as 'limited' PvP and wanted to try something new.

I traded all of that for 3 battle grounds, Ilum being broken and 0 world PvP. I view Aion PvP level as below par, SWTOR is definately exceptionally little. If anything I am being too kind with those words. PvP is in a desperate state. I look forward to resubbing when they fix it, though it has potential.

Well, I'm still playing the game. I still have all 8 classes to get through their personal stories + raise companion affection for their quests, and then I'd like to run through all of the FP's and operations at least once on the hardest difficulty. So yeah, I still have several months of game time left.

With that said, I wish Bioware would have been more up front about their game while hyping it up. They said this game would be like KOTOR 3-9 when fans asked why make a MMORPG instead of a KOTOR 3 SPG. They gave the impression that there'd be 200 hours of "class" story, but instead it's mostly a bunch of side quests that I absolutely loathe in MMORPGs. I started playing MMORPGs when everyone grouped up and mob grinded for hours. Was it boring? Sure, but at least I could socialize while grinding and the group cooperation to tackle mobs higher than you for the best xp was fun. When soloing through the hundreds upon hundreds of side quests, it just makes me want to do something else with my time.

This is why other than my first Empire and Republic character, which I'm running through all the quests, I'm mob grinding. At least through mob grinding I'm not having to run back and forth and I can see the world at my own pace, not the pace the quests are setting me on. I actually enjoy the game more doing it this way.

Oh well, SWTOR probably won't be my "home" MMORPG the way DAoC and SWG was, but at least it will provide me with some entertainment until future MMORPG's release.

Oh, one more thing I miss is an open world. When I'm playing through the planets, I miss the open world that WoW has, where you can run anywhere in the world without getting a loading screen, with the exception of instances and crossing over to another continent. I didn't play WoW for long, because I don't like quest driven games, but the memory of that experience is a good one.

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by Theodwulf

 No amount of manufactured "Fan" support is going to change that this game is bad. IF the game was so great there would far fewer people singing it's praises outside the game and it's official forums.

Oh so cynical. Lots of players like the game. Obviously 1.7 million thought the game was good enough to keep playing for an additional month.

If you go over to IGN and look at the user comments about SWTOR on there, most people love the game. This forum is just full of burnt out MMO players who didnt want more of the same, which is all that SWTOR ever promised. There are a lot of MMO newbies playing SWTOR that just love the Star Wars IP and dont care that there is no significant difference to any other MMO out there, or that the game is a themepark and not a sandbox.

What people on this forum need to realise is that they are not the majority by any stretch of the imagination. The games they love are lucky to have more than 100k subscribers. Why should Bioware cater to that when they can get 1.7 million with a themepark?

Yup

I agree.

I dont like the game much myself but only a fool would think that catering to my taste and not the masses is a good business strategy.

1.7 million is nothing to scoff at. I believe BW expected more but I am sure they are happy with that.  Bad or Good is personal taste and nothing more. If myself and 100k others say its Bad, but 1.7 million say its Good and continue to sub then who is right?

My take on it is that its shallow and uninspired for a MMO, but works very well for a Co Op or CoRPG type game. And many many people seem to like it that way. Its the era of the casual gamer, the days of spending 2 weeks getting from level 44-45 are over, the dawn of 1-50 in 2 days played has arrived.

Not that I am happy with it, just realistic enough to know thats the future of big sub MMO's

Originally posted by Theodwulf

"Puzzled as to why anyone would go thru so much time and effort, again repeatedly, to bash a simple video game, but have decided that it is simply some form of human nature. "

 

  Because people feel like they were duped, IF BW started giving money back to disatisfied customers you would see the seething lake of hatred dry up. THAT is what it comes down to, the "Industry" pulled another fast one on the gaming community another WAR on us.

How many times do you have to be duped before you realise that no MMO is ever going to be what the hype makes it out to be? It's been happening for years and it's still a surprise? Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me....

I'd be willing to bet that the OP had realistic expectations of TOR. I know I did and I had a blast with it too, for what it was.

It was never, ever going to live up to the hype. Caveat emptor -  there's a reason why that phrase is in Latin...

Originally posted by Gibbonici

[snip]Caveat emptor -  there's a reason why that phrase is in Latin...[snip]

...What?