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World of Darkness

World of Darkness 

General Discussion  » Will World of Darkness be Sandbox or Something Else?

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59 posts found
  nerovipus32

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2710

10/18/11 8:52:25 AM#41
Originally posted by czekoskwigel
Originally posted by Moirae
Originally posted by czekoskwigel

i'll start worrying about it in 5 years, which that time this vaporware title may be in an early alpha stage.

From the sounds of it, its been in development for several years. Likely still a couple more to finish, but I doubt it will be five years.

They've talked about the theory of it for a while, but all they've had to show is some pre-rendered fabric demonstration.  What you have is a decent IP and a company who has had moderate success convincing people that spreadsheets are fun (EVE online)... nothign more, yet people are already drooling and calling this the savior of mmo gaming.

And you are already criticizing it without knowing anything about the game.

  User Deleted
10/18/11 9:01:14 AM#42
Originally posted by Moirae
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Moirae
Originally posted by afhn2110
Originally posted by Moirae
Originally posted by afhn2110

 

 

 

I think it is pretty much nailed on it will have some form of open, ffa pvp, just like their other title does. They seem to be hinting at open pvp combined with losing your humanity and potential permadeath. Hence a system that is both more free and open than and also more restrictive (in a way) then current mmos.

 

If someone runs around pking people at random for no reason then they will be a candidate for losing their humanity and ultimately for blood hunt and PD.

 

 

 

The problem is that I've been playing VTM about as long as I've been playing MMO's. I hope its more than that. Losing characters mean nothing to players, and if it is a player run world where the Prince can be a player like they have been hinting at, that relies on the player being online, not losing interest in being Prince, and  the pk'r not being about just log out when he gets hunted. Abuse of this system could run rampant.

 

Given that this is by far the best pnp game in the world (IMO), not implementing this correctly could completely destroy it, and tick everyone off.

MMORPG players though do care when their character is permanently erased. Hell they cry if they have items or gold taken off them, let alone a character.

 

If someone is a repeated nonsensical pker and he just logs off, er well then he is deprived of the character and the game.

 

As for the Prince part, someone who gets bored is not going to last at the top. Politcal mechanics may be abused from time to time but that is part of the fun. Games with no tyrants and with no ability for the players to be tyrants are neither open or dynamic.

 

There will no doubt be pkers, people with low humanity ratings and "bad" princes. But I'm pretty sure that's part of what CCP are hoping for in the first place.

  Moirae

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/19/06
Posts: 2575

10/18/11 9:11:13 AM#43
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Moirae
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Moirae
Originally posted by afhn2110
Originally posted by Moirae
Originally posted by afhn2110

 

 

 

I think it is pretty much nailed on it will have some form of open, ffa pvp, just like their other title does. They seem to be hinting at open pvp combined with losing your humanity and potential permadeath. Hence a system that is both more free and open than and also more restrictive (in a way) then current mmos.

 

If someone runs around pking people at random for no reason then they will be a candidate for losing their humanity and ultimately for blood hunt and PD.

 

 

 

The problem is that I've been playing VTM about as long as I've been playing MMO's. I hope its more than that. Losing characters mean nothing to players, and if it is a player run world where the Prince can be a player like they have been hinting at, that relies on the player being online, not losing interest in being Prince, and  the pk'r not being about just log out when he gets hunted. Abuse of this system could run rampant.

 

Given that this is by far the best pnp game in the world (IMO), not implementing this correctly could completely destroy it, and tick everyone off.

MMORPG players though do care when their character is permanently erased. Hell they cry if they have items or gold taken off them, let alone a character.

 Not if they are pk'rs. 

If someone is a repeated nonsensical pker and he just logs off, er well then he is deprived of the character and the game.

 Only if they allow that mechanic.

As for the Prince part, someone who gets bored is not going to last at the top. Politcal mechanics may be abused from time to time but that is part of the fun. Games with no tyrants and with no ability for the players to be tyrants are neither open or dynamic.

 Not really. If the person is never around to actually use the mechanic to remove them from the position, then how will it be handled? Unfortunately that question has yet to be answered. And probably won't be for along time yet.

There will no doubt be pkers, people with low humanity ratings and "bad" princes. But I'm pretty sure that's part of what CCP are hoping for in the first place.

We will see.

 

  Moirae

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/19/06
Posts: 2575

10/18/11 9:15:28 AM#44

As to the "casual" thing, every single game out there including the upcoming SWTOR is a casual player game. Enough already. Its time to give something to those that are actually more dedicated and stop babying everything down. Let everyone else have ONE game that isn't meant for baby's, children and people with no time to play.

  User Deleted
10/18/11 9:15:51 AM#45
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Mari2k

If it goes pure sandbox it will flop.

I hope it will be a hybrid to give causual players a chance.

jesus! isn't there enough casual themepark mmo's for the casual audience..you want every game to be made for you!

this game will be a big success as WOD has a big cult following. THIS GAME IS NOT FOR YOU!!!!

Irony. How does being a hypocrite work out for you?

Some games are apparently more untouchable than others.

  KalTheo

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/06
Posts: 66

10/18/11 9:22:26 AM#46
Originally posted by czekoskwigel

i'll start worrying about it in 5 years, which by that time this vaporware title may be in an early alpha stage.

People have been to the CCP offices and played it under an NDA.  By my observation, CCP only invites smoking hot gamer chicks to their offices...

  Joliust

Novice Member

Joined: 6/08/05
Posts: 1338

10/18/11 9:42:24 AM#47


Originally posted by Moirae
As to the "casual" thing, every single game out there including the upcoming SWTOR is a casual player game. Enough already. Its time to give something to those that are actually more dedicated and stop babying everything down. Let everyone else have ONE game that isn't meant for baby's, children and people with no time to play.

I don't think it is too hard to make the game fun for both types of players. You can give casuals something that doesn't require being online all the time, and give hardcore's things that require a lot of activity. Allow the two to interact but not compete. Both will be happy.

Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.

  User Deleted
10/18/11 9:47:43 AM#48
Originally posted by Moirae
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Moirae
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Moirae
Originally posted by afhn2110
Originally posted by Moirae
Originally posted by afhn2110

 

 

 


 

 

MMORPG players though do care when their character is permanently erased. Hell they cry if they have items or gold taken off them, let alone a character.

 Not if they are pk'rs. 

Yes, even pk'rs care if they are playing a progression based game. You see if a game has extremely short progression metrics then pk'rs wouldn't give a damn about losing their characters. If however there is a "time sink" inherent in the system then having your character wiped out every time you go on a mindless rampage would indeed be an issue. Hence the reason it would work. That's coming from the perspective of a pk'r.

 

Mechanics like PD working in tandem with a rating system would indeed "make people think twice", so long as the game has some form of progression metric.

 

If someone is a repeated nonsensical pker and he just logs off, er well then he is deprived of the character and the game.

 Only if they allow that mechanic.

I think I must have missed something here. Which part are you worried about? Eitherway chracter deprivation is being applied to the repeat offender and as such the system would be working as intended.

 

As for the Prince part, someone who gets bored is not going to last at the top. Politcal mechanics may be abused from time to time but that is part of the fun. Games with no tyrants and with no ability for the players to be tyrants are neither open or dynamic.

 Not really. If the person is never around to actually use the mechanic to remove them from the position, then how will it be handled? Unfortunately that question has yet to be answered. And probably won't be for along time yet.

So you think CCP would put a mechanic in place that would mean a prince could just go perma AFK and break the entire game system? I can't see it.

 

There will no doubt be pkers, people with low humanity ratings and "bad" princes. But I'm pretty sure that's part of what CCP are hoping for in the first place.

We will see.

Indeed, time will tell, but going on CCP's track record and what they have said thus far about WoD then it does look increasingly likely that the game will go in that direction. But it is impossible to tell with 100% certainty.

 

In all honesty it seems a bit pointless worrying about the mechanics at the moment given what little information we know and the fact we can only really go on the track record of the company (EVE) to try and ascertain what sort of base mechanics WoD will have. For what it's worth, CCP are one of the few companies in the market I would have any faith in whatsoever to develop this kind of game.

 

  Omnifish

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/16/11
Posts: 608

I'll kick your a**e so hard, you could build a swimming pool in the footprint!

10/18/11 9:47:57 AM#49
Originally posted by Joliust

 


Originally posted by osmunda
"The World of Darkness MMO will focus on player politics and social interaction amongst the thousands of online players. The game is set in a world run by immortal vampires who live amongst humans, controlling everything, even if mortals aren’t aware of their secret wars and their boundless appetites. " - Russel Bailey
 
http://geek-news.mtv.com/2011/08/16/vampire-the-masquerade-celebrates-20th-anniversary-in-new-orleans-with-world-of-darkness/
"Is X a sandbox?" is always one of the most difficult questions, since people frequently disagree on what it takes to be a "sandbox" . That being said, between the quote above and CCP's track record,I would certainly say they are going to work to involve alot of sandbox features.


 

This.

I don't think it will be a sandbox in some peoples context, however, I don't think there will be linear quest lines - lvling areas. I think there will be tools to allow you to play your game the way you want. I think it will be more about social and tactics than just grinding and combat.

I think it will be fun. I think we will be waiting a long long time for the game too come out also. :-p

Sounds a bit SWG to me.  I can't wait to build my blood farm!!! :P

This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  Moirae

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/19/06
Posts: 2575

10/18/11 10:07:20 AM#50
Originally posted by Joliust

 


Originally posted by Moirae
As to the "casual" thing, every single game out there including the upcoming SWTOR is a casual player game. Enough already. Its time to give something to those that are actually more dedicated and stop babying everything down. Let everyone else have ONE game that isn't meant for baby's, children and people with no time to play.


 

I don't think it is too hard to make the game fun for both types of players. You can give casuals something that doesn't require being online all the time, and give hardcore's things that require a lot of activity. Allow the two to interact but not compete. Both will be happy.

In other words, the exact same thing we have in other game. Give raiding to the hardcore, and everything else to the casuals so both things suck. No, sorry, that is not right. Frankly, raiding sucks, and I'm sick of everything being casual friendly. 

  Madimorga

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 1990

10/18/11 10:15:32 AM#51
Originally posted by hcosmin

It can't be a pure sandbox since it's based on a tabletop RPG and it needs to fit in an existing and elaborate setting. Given the audience it also needs to be immersive and probably even roleplay friendly. For that you'd have to tell a story not just throw the player in a sandbox.

Hopefully it is varried and gives players choice and all that but a pure sandbox ? WoD vampires have allegiances to ancient organisations, they don't all make their own "corps". They don't give a damn about money and the economy and will certainly not go out in the mountains to mine rocks all day or haul things for a few coins or any of that.

What it should retain from EvE is the focus on politics and backstabbing. But the bulk of EvE just dosen't fit.

 

I have to agree with you on this.  But maybe that's because I'm already having nightmares about a Goonpire swarm cornering the blood bank market.

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein

  Joliust

Novice Member

Joined: 6/08/05
Posts: 1338

10/18/11 11:21:38 AM#52


Originally posted by Moirae


Originally posted by Joliust
 



Originally posted by Moirae
As to the "casual" thing, every single game out there including the upcoming SWTOR is a casual player game. Enough already. Its time to give something to those that are actually more dedicated and stop babying everything down. Let everyone else have ONE game that isn't meant for baby's, children and people with no time to play.



 
I don't think it is too hard to make the game fun for both types of players. You can give casuals something that doesn't require being online all the time, and give hardcore's things that require a lot of activity. Allow the two to interact but not compete. Both will be happy.


In other words, the exact same thing we have in other game. Give raiding to the hardcore, and everything else to the casuals so both things suck. No, sorry, that is not right. Frankly, raiding sucks, and I'm sick of everything being casual friendly. 

You just contradicted yourself. Also that was not what I meant in other words. There very few games where casual players cannot find a meaningful role in the game. In fact the new trend to have end level raiding is the first time casuals were ever forced out of gameplay. So in a big way games today are far less casual friendly than before. I absolutely detest raiding and refuse to participate in it so it doesn't matter to me.

Now if you are talking about solo vs group friendly, then I agree.

Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.

  Moaky07

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/24/07
Posts: 2199

MMO sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry.

10/18/11 11:20:50 PM#53
Originally posted by Lanfea

information about world of darkness given by white wolf / ccp during the grand masquerade:

 

  • The producers stated their philosophy in making this MMO was "human interaction". They feel that is limited in the current crop of MMO's and their biggest weakness.
  • They are trying to emulate the feel of LARPing more then EVE or any other game system with this MMO
  • There will be a general CCP run metaplot that develops over time but the main metaplots will be left for the players to drive forward.
  • Incarna is actually considered a prototype, the rendering engine that will ship with the MMO will be much more advanced.
  • Everyone starts as a mortal, becoming kindred is optional and can not be forced on you. You can play he entire game as a mortal only.
  • There will be final death for both mortals and kindred.
  • PvP will be more limited in some ways, yet more open in others then any other current MMO.
  • There will be cities (plural) and communication between them (the various kindred and clans) will be encouraged/possible.
  • Caitiff will NOT be in on release. They discussed it internally and couldn't find a way to make them work in a way they liked.
  • Casual players will find the game accessible but hard core players will have a much deeper experience and more rewards/benefits.
  • Considering some kind of web site access interface for the MMO
  • NO day/night cycle, only night.
  • Humanity is a stat is game and one use is to address griefers. The more you cause issues for other players, break the masq, etc the more you can loose humanity and once it gets too low other players (and NPCs?) can attack you (implied even if you flag yourself non-pvp).
  • Griefers will suffer both in game and if serious enough out of game penalties (ie account banning)
  • Helps to make friends and not enemies in game as you can not get to the top of the food chain without networking and having friends to assist you.
  • Players will have havens.
  • Players can climb the ladder and get to Prince levels of power and run a city
  • Can get to Prince level power without killing a single thing, all done via networking, politics and friendships
  • ONLY kindred on release of game, no were's, mages, etc. However those other supernaturals may be used in a NPC fashion or/and their lore appear in game.
  • MMO character sheet very similar to the V:tM PnP character sheet.
  • Character names over the avatars head by default turned off, but can turn them on.
  • Game world/environment will change over time; real in game consequences for player actions.
  • Diablerie and related game mechanics from the PnP game is "under heavy discussion" no decision as of now.
  • Dynamic NPC missions/World events
  • One world server, no shards/instancing.
  • Torpor in game but not used as in PnP game, used as a mechanic to explain why a kindred did not die/final death
  • They are aware the WoD is a adult setting and the devs are going to not shy away from gore, blood and nudity. However such will have a reason and not adult content for the sake of adult content.
  • Seemed to imply your personal haven is where its open season, as gratuitous as you wish, full nudity for example. 
  • Public nudity (by players) will be limited to prevent griefers and non-RPers from breaking immersion.  
  • Hinted consensual PvP fight to the (final) death will be a feature between players.
  • CCP Chris said in his opinion SW:ToR isn't a MMO, it is a SP game that has a MP element as the game isn't player driven.
  • To go up the food chain you NEED support from other players, impossible to do it alone.
  • The different cities will be different sizes (and I assume looks as well)
  • Using software called Cerberus for real time translation in game via text chatting. CCP Chris said 5 languages (didn't state which however) on release.

Nice of you to list the features.

True death will be something in a MMO game. Some folks will complain after losing a high level char due to lag etc. I cant imagine a bigger rush though for a PvP gamer.

 

Full nudity? That will sell a few extra boxes alone. hah Teens and some pervy older guys. Bonus if they allow the guys playing females to choose the curtain design. Double bonus if white guys dont feel like they got shortchanged in the game as well as in real life.

 

One server, and they mention trying to keep griefing in check. Yep, Nicheville I would have to imagine. Griefers are like parasites to MMO companies....they suck the life right out of their work.

 

You would think companies would learn their lesson about open world forced PvP. Hopefully the game gives sandboxers a place with an actual avatar, and they enjoy it. I know some have complained about that in EVE.

 

I am just seeing a few bad signs already. Oh well, was just checking out forum cause folks talk about this game on site. Hope it turns out like you people want. Got no dog in this show.

Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  SirBalin

Warmonger

Joined: 11/22/06
Posts: 1016

10/18/11 11:39:08 PM#54

I am passionatly in love with this game already!!

Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"

  xxpigxx

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/06
Posts: 412

10/22/11 6:25:04 PM#55

Sounds good, though I have never got into the WoD thing.  I guess I have a few years to catch up.

 

lol

 

I assume by personal havens, they mean player housing?

  Moirae

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/19/06
Posts: 2575

10/22/11 6:45:56 PM#56
Originally posted by xxpigxx

Sounds good, though I have never got into the WoD thing.  I guess I have a few years to catch up.

 

lol

 

I assume by personal havens, they mean player housing?

Yes, but that isn't quite right. Its not just "a house" in vampire. Haven is exactly what it says. A haven from the outside world. That normally means heavy fortification that gets heavier as the vampire ages and gains more money to protect the vampire from any invasion. There's also a place normally a place safe from the sun that you couldn't find unless you knew it was there. On the outside, it would look like a perfectly normal house, apartment, condo, etc. On the inside, if you know what you're looking for, you'll find the vampire well protected from the outside world. Unless you're really insane, incredibly stupid, or lacking in mental capacity in some way, you do NOT want to break into a vampire haven. Especially if its a Sabbat vampire. 

 

We are introducing an old friend of my husbands to vampire right away. Vampire is something you generally passionately love, or it is something you could care less for (though I don't think I've ever met anyone that actually hated it). There really isn't much in between. 

  xxpigxx

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/06
Posts: 412

10/22/11 9:23:00 PM#57

Well, I just acquired V: TM, so we will see how it goes

 

  Gylfi

Novice Member

Joined: 7/06/06
Posts: 681

2/03/12 11:11:36 AM#58

i like the sound of it so far. Politics, power, control. That's all awesome.

I only hope the game will not feature the usual linear story of quests that follow you from map to map in a sequence in and out of levelling. Cause that's just incompatible with a sandbox game.

  Moirae

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/19/06
Posts: 2575

2/03/12 6:23:02 PM#59
Originally posted by Gylfi

i like the sound of it so far. Politics, power, control. That's all awesome.

I only hope the game will not feature the usual linear story of quests that follow you from map to map in a sequence in and out of levelling. Cause that's just incompatible with a sandbox game.

Check out my website for a list of what the MMO is currently offering. From the sounds of it, this is going to really be a massive sandbox game. Players are even going to be able to be Princes. 

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