Originally posted by TJixlee

Originally posted by Enosh

well then go and support a sandbox mmo so they will have the money to make an aaa game instead of just being a forum version of this:

the hot dog guy is never going to succed if people don't buy his hot dogs

this is perfect. read this and close thread. lol

HAHA! So true.

Originally posted by Gylfi

Well if the WoW model failed in business sort of way, publishers would think that you gotta take risks to make profit in the MMO industry, they would think that players do want new weird virtual worlds, so they would have invested in a game like Mortal Online, instead of leaving Star Vault's people alone in their incompetence(some say, personally i like the game as it is), it would be more polished, and then more people would play, and it would be more succesful than it is.

Assuming that people go play sandbox games, if they have a TOR kind of polish and hype and sex appeal.

You do realize how player support has effected the indie sandbox genre right? Look at the post below, then tell me in this genre indie's have a chance... Eve is a very good example, when it released it was in horrible shape, almost a disaster. Due to support the game grew and today it is one of the more polished well-rounded games on the market. Players don't have that type of patience today, meaning these indies such as SV, have no hope in ever reaching the heights that EVE has.

IF TOR, with all the content it launched with can't please these folks how will an indie ever be able to? This type of thing hurts the chances for something different far more than TOR ever will. Gamers seek complete polished games, and will not wait around (paying) for it to happen.

Originally posted by superniceguy

No it is definately not worrth it ATM

I do not think it is not worth it, I know it is not worth it ATM.

SWTOR is just too lacking to be worth it. Hopefully they will add more and make it more worthwhile, but they have not shown anything yet that is coming that is worthwhile

Originally posted by pierth

OP, you can't teach people to have higher standards.

So true! People flock to whatever is popular, not to mention there has been no good mmos out there since WoW. This is just a desperation thing to keep their mmo addiction satisfied until the next best thing arrives. Innovation and quality be damned! ;)

Since the Video Game industry is apart of the entertainment industry, there is one rule and one rule only.

Go where the money is.

Simple as that, end of story. People are going to reminisce in the "good ol' hot dog days", but in reality they are stuck because only a SMALL majority want hot dogs. You are asking investors to take an unnecessary risk and throw their money back at something. This is risky buisness, and we all know that risky buisness doesn't fly unless there is true potential in something.

MMORPGs will allways stay the same unless a developer can prove otherwise, until then all major budget MMOs will be directed toward what HAS WORKED.

Haters gonna hate, but it is true and you can make all the analogies you want, people follow the money.

There is nothing to argue about - lately seen a few days in the media, a documention about our economy:

RIDICULOUS!

Can you imagine that ALMOST EVERYTHING is made/created not to last, no, to break? Our economy only WORKS if something breaks and you have to get a new one. Is it the date on our food - the fridge - BEST EXAMPLE your printer - even the cheap clothing from h&m which rips of literally after half a year - and even hardware.

With the exception that SWToR does not earn anything from updating for free. They do not sell a full package of content, yes, because they want to bind customers, they want to bind you for their games. So does every marketing-wh*re these days: "Bind customers or die."

So the conclusion is: A perfect product, which would last forever is DAMAGING our economy. And this mindset is SICK and has to STOP!

Worldwide!

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Originally posted by 4bsolute
There is nothing to argue about - lately seen a few days in the media, a documention about our economy:
RIDICULOUS!
Can you imagine that ALMOST EVERYTHING is made/created not to last, no, to break? Our economy only WORKS if something breaks and you have to get a new one. Is it the date on our food - the fridge - BEST EXAMPLE your printer - even the cheap clothing from h&m which rips of literally after half a year - and even hardware.
With the exception that SWToR does not earn anything from updating for free. They do not sell a full package of content, yes, because they want to bind customers, they want to bind you for their games. So does every marketing-wh*re these days: "Bind customers or die."
So the conclusion is: A perfect product, which would last forever is DAMAGING our economy. And this mindset is SICK and has to STOP!
Worldwide!

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Originally posted by nachofoot

Originally posted by Dredphyre

Let's apply the OP's logic to other industries, shall we?

 

"A successful rocket launch by NASA will be bad for the space industry"

"A successful comic book release will be bad for Marvel/D.C."

"A successful board game release will be bad for Hasbro"

 

 

This is the sort of innane logic we're left with in this country: If something is successful, it's a failure.

 

 

 

No...

 

What the op is saying is more like:

"A successful gas-guzzler will be bad for the car industry"

"A successful bank bailout will be bad for the economy"

"A successful WoW-clone will be bad for future innovation"

What you are doing is taking opinion and suggesting it is more than just an opinion.  The truth is that some people like chocolate and some like vanilla.  What you are saying is that vanilla is bad as a fact.

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Originally posted by wrekognize
Look at the music/movie industry. Everything in our society is turning into a complete lack of creativity. If you want something different and creative, you must turn to talented indy musicians/movie makers, and sadly MMOs.  It's just like the good bands. They are out there, but you have to search hard for them.  So Minecraft is one I hear is good. Doesn't look like my type of game. So I turned to Linkrealms. 
...

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Originally posted by TJixlee

Originally posted by Enosh

well then go and support a sandbox mmo so they will have the money to make an aaa game instead of just being a forum version of this:

the hot dog guy is never going to succed if people don't buy his hot dogs

this is perfect. read this and close thread. lol

Spot on! LOL close this thread. A picture is indeed worth a 1000 words and this really shows exactly what happens with every MMO release by some minority that is never happy to see that others are having fun on something they dont like.

If I had to describe MMORPG.com in one picture it would probably be that actually.

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by wrekognize
Look at the music/movie industry. Everything in our society is turning into a complete lack of creativity. If you want something different and creative, you must turn to talented indy musicians/movie makers, and sadly MMOs.  It's just like the good bands. They are out there, but you have to search hard for them.  So Minecraft is one I hear is good. Doesn't look like my type of game. So I turned to Linkrealms. 
...

---

Many people in the 70s lamented the lack of creativity and mindless drivel coming out of their radios and 8 track tapes using the 60s as an example of when things were better. In the 80's many people lamented the lack of creativity and mindless drivel coming out of their radios, tape players and finally, cd players using the 70s as an example of when things were good. In the 90s...well, you get the idea. Movies, same thing. Ditto for television and if video games were a major industry in the 70s, the same thing would apply to video games.

 

Maybe people complained from the 60s to the 70s and so on.  But the ideas were new and fresh every 10 years. Today, main stream music is a copy of things that have already been done before.  Similar to how MMO companies in the late 90s could be free with what they created.  Now everything is a copy of what was successful.  Which is exactly why today musicians try to copy one another, because it's successful.

My point is still valid. There are still those who are not so popular, making creative products. They are hard to find, but they are there.

Bah.  I still have faith that this game will fail.  Here is why:

a) Who wants to spend all there time chatting with Star Wars nerds?  No one.

b) self resurrection  (lol what is the point of even playing something this easy?)

c) kill 10 jawas.

Originally posted by sullivanj69

Bah.  I still have faith that this game will fail.  Here is why:

a) Who wants to spend all there time chatting with Star Wars nerds?  No one.

b) self resurrection  (lol what is the point of even playing something this easy?)

c) kill 10 jawas.

Ass of a few days ago apparently there were 1.7million people and growing with each copy being sold so eah I think it will do just fine. If you thought corpse runs and other stuff like that were fun and that people want to be punished for making mistakes then you sir are completely out of your mind.

Originally posted by i_own_u

Since the Video Game industry is apart of the entertainment industry, there is one rule and one rule only.

Go where the money is.

But if we all were atheletes and porn stars, who would take care of all the other stuff?

Cash Rules Everything Around Me.. True, but despite what they teach us at a young age, we can't all be millionaires. The system isn't built that way..

The people at the top of these corps, the decision makers, have no invested emotion or interest in the product themselves rather than how much can they earn from them.. Since they have little or no experience in the things they are standing to "represent" they take the easy way out and just "look at what made the next man money"..

That basically takes little effort, little understanding and more of "just do what they did"..  Before WoW showed us that MMO's COULD make lots of money, these CEO's and VP's wanted nothing to do with them.. Hell i'm sure some of them even predicted them to just die off eventually..

Hell, I still remember EA declaring that they would never make a video game based on MMA.. EVER... Well, THQ proved that an MMA game could make money and behold "EA SPORTS MMA"..

Originally posted by alacres

Originally posted by bossalinie
"Rise up everyone and quit playing what you enjoy and what fits you to save me..."

Am I doing it right?

No. Try actually reading and comprehending the thread and then reply.

 

OP, I commend and agree with the sentiment of your thread, but I'm thinking your points will be swooshing over the heads of most people that come to it. Reading isn't a strong suit, in the US at least.

^ This. Reading really isn't a strong suit of a lot of the current generation of gamers, so it appears by seeing a lot of the jiberish that has preceeded me.

I commend the OP for stating what needs to be said.

Originally posted by Strayfe

Just like somebody once had the temerity to create a hamburger stand when everyone loved hot dogs, they became successful.  Nobody will take that plunge anymore.

Going to have to disagree with you on that point. Every few years someone will take that "plunge" and that's how new ideas catch on and the whole cycle starts over. It happens in every industry and with every product. So don't lose faith in that regard.

As for the overall point of the thread, i'm not sure that even a failed SWTOR would be a real benefit to the genre. If that happened it might just mean investors wouldn't spend as much on any MMO's in the future, be they themeparks or sandboxes.

Originally posted by Fenrir767

Originally posted by sullivanj69

Bah.  I still have faith that this game will fail.  Here is why:

a) Who wants to spend all there time chatting with Star Wars nerds?  No one.

b) self resurrection  (lol what is the point of even playing something this easy?)

c) kill 10 jawas.

Ass of a few days ago apparently there were 1.7million people and growing with each copy being sold so eah I think it will do just fine. If you thought corpse runs and other stuff like that were fun and that people want to be punished for making mistakes then you sir are completely out of your mind.

Some people prefer the reset button the console provided. Some people prefer the challenge. Sadly, I'm guessing most people fall under pressing reset.

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Originally posted by wrekognize

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Originally posted by lizardbones
 

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Originally posted by wrekognize
Look at the music/movie industry. Everything in our society is turning into a complete lack of creativity. If you want something different and creative, you must turn to talented indy musicians/movie makers, and sadly MMOs.  It's just like the good bands. They are out there, but you have to search hard for them.  So Minecraft is one I hear is good. Doesn't look like my type of game. So I turned to Linkrealms. 
...

---

Many people in the 70s lamented the lack of creativity and mindless drivel coming out of their radios and 8 track tapes using the 60s as an example of when things were better. In the 80's many people lamented the lack of creativity and mindless drivel coming out of their radios, tape players and finally, cd players using the 70s as an example of when things were good. In the 90s...well, you get the idea. Movies, same thing. Ditto for television and if video games were a major industry in the 70s, the same thing would apply to video games.

 

---

Maybe people complained from the 60s to the 70s and so on.  But the ideas were new and fresh every 10 years. Today, main stream music is a copy of things that have already been done before.  Similar to how MMO companies in the late 90s could be free with what they created.  Now everything is a copy of what was successful.  Which is exactly why today musicians try to copy one another, because it's successful.
My point is still valid. There are still those who are not so popular, making creative products. They are hard to find, but they are there.

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Originally posted by Fenrir767

Originally posted by sullivanj69

Bah.  I still have faith that this game will fail.  Here is why:

a) Who wants to spend all there time chatting with Star Wars nerds?  No one.

b) self resurrection  (lol what is the point of even playing something this easy?)

c) kill 10 jawas.

Ass of a few days ago apparently there were 1.7million people and growing with each copy being sold so eah I think it will do just fine. If you thought corpse runs and other stuff like that were fun and that people want to be punished for making mistakes then you sir are completely out of your mind.

Of course, what was i thinking?  Maybe they should make a game that can just play itself so that you never have to even consider losing.  I remember a time when it was possible to lose video games.  These days might as well just watch a damn movie as opposed to playing 90% of what is released.

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by wrekognize

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Originally posted by lizardbones
 

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Originally posted by wrekognize
Look at the music/movie industry. Everything in our society is turning into a complete lack of creativity. If you want something different and creative, you must turn to talented indy musicians/movie makers, and sadly MMOs.  It's just like the good bands. They are out there, but you have to search hard for them.  So Minecraft is one I hear is good. Doesn't look like my type of game. So I turned to Linkrealms. 
...

---

Many people in the 70s lamented the lack of creativity and mindless drivel coming out of their radios and 8 track tapes using the 60s as an example of when things were better. In the 80's many people lamented the lack of creativity and mindless drivel coming out of their radios, tape players and finally, cd players using the 70s as an example of when things were good. In the 90s...well, you get the idea. Movies, same thing. Ditto for television and if video games were a major industry in the 70s, the same thing would apply to video games.

 

---

Maybe people complained from the 60s to the 70s and so on.  But the ideas were new and fresh every 10 years. Today, main stream music is a copy of things that have already been done before.  Similar to how MMO companies in the late 90s could be free with what they created.  Now everything is a copy of what was successful.  Which is exactly why today musicians try to copy one another, because it's successful.
My point is still valid. There are still those who are not so popular, making creative products. They are hard to find, but they are there.

---

It's not any different now than it was in the 70s, or 60s. The musicians in the 60s took what they heard in the 50s, filtered it through their brains and made something a little different. That's what's happening now. Everything in music is a variation of something heard before it, with (sometimes) a personal touch.

Video games aren't any different. Everything is a variation of something seen before. People go on about how MMORPG are innovative and creative, but the only new thing they added was more people playing the same game. Everything else was a variation of stuff that already existed.

TOR is a variation of stuff that's already existed. So was every MMORPG since the first one. Better graphics, more people, less people, whatever, still just variations of ideas that already existed. The MMORPG that come out after this will be variations on stuff that is being done now. Some will add more new stuff, some will add less.

In 10 years people will was nostalgic about the 'good ole days' and how there's no innovation and how nothing new ever gets made. Even that isn't new...it's just a variation of a theme that never seems to go away.

There is no impending doom, the sky is not falling...this is just how the world works.

 

Ah. You basically just agreed with what i'm saying. Right now MMOs are stuck in the themepark "variation". One day a big gaming company (bethesda?) will break that mold and make sandbox variation and maybe we'll have 10 years of sandboxs.

Still have my fingers crossed that this "MMO" will fail. I could have picked any MMO since WoW to fail but I picked this one because of the IP and the amount of money they spent on it.