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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » A successful SWTOR is bad for the industry

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250 posts found
  ananda

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/08/09
Posts: 43

2/02/12 3:44:35 PM#141

Hm...

So, basically what you like is a niche game. Most other people like something different from you, and so game developers, understandably, caters to the majority in order to make the most profit.

I think it's not that people don't like choice or variety, only in MMORPG industry. It's that the majority of people are getting sufficient variety to suit their taste.

As an analogy, I like reading fantasy novels. To someone who only like other genre, every new fantasy novel that comes out would seem like a clone of all previous ones. But to the fans, each are refreshing and fun enough. And asking these fans to stop reading those books so more writers would write about the niche genre that you like is not going to work.

I don't think your only option is to go to the extreme of making your own game. In theory, in a free market I believe the solution is to pay a premium to get what you like. If you can't get the economics of scale on your side, simply offer to pay more in order to make it worth the development team's time to make the game that you like. So perhaps indicate to the developers that there would be a significant number of people who would like to play a different kind of game, willing to pay extra ($50 per month or something like that). If you are not willing to pay the premium...well, you can always try to evangelize your kind of game and get more fans on your side. Other than that, tough, no one is saying the world is fair.

  kalinis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 1444

2/02/12 3:49:59 PM#142

Saying a succesful big budget game is bad for the industry is ridiculous. if u want companies to spend money making mmo's every mmo succes no matter the style, thempark vs sandbox, or sandpark is good for the mmo industry.

If a company can spend 200 million as has been speculated and make a profit u will see more companies willing to spend and take a chance on big budget mmo's which is only good for gamers as a whole.

It means eventually a company will make your galaxies 2 type game or big budget sandbox that players seem to want. Not all companies are going to go the route of tor. 

They will all go there own way and do there own things , sure most games copy mechanics but how many advance have been made in fps, or fighter game or even sports games mechanics. The truth is not alot, most games use the same style of mechanics as alot of games in there genre.

Tors success means big name companies with big budgets will continue to dip there toe into the mmo market and make there style of game and eventually some of them will make those big game changes so many here yearn for. 

so no tor's success is not bad for the industry anymore then the success of eve of  gw 2 or secret world will be bad for the genre.

  Wankyudo

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/04
Posts: 145

2/02/12 4:10:49 PM#143

I started reading this, and then I simply got a headache.

 

Just another "This game is wrong, it must die," thread, with absolute garbage reasoning.  And OP calls the people playing it selfish because they enjoy it? PAH.  He's selfish because he doesn't want others to like it.

  Raven

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 1985

"Only the dead have seen the end of war" Plato

2/02/12 4:19:56 PM#144

I cant wait until GW2 and TSW releases so the bitching and whining moves to the newest thing, its always the same thing.

"bla bla bla < insert currently hyped mmo name >  will be better bla bla bla < insert recently released mmo name > is bad we want more of X type"

It has been like this since WoW I doubt it will change at any point.

  Ruwin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/19/06
Posts: 90

2/02/12 4:36:19 PM#145

I like SwToR and can see the potential the game has for the next few years. I also am a person that has loved sandbox mmos in the past. My life has changed and I dont have the time I used to to sit down for hours on end to play a game. SwToR allows me to play when I'm able and not feel useless.

Would I have liked swtor to be swg2 ..... sure, am I endlessly disappointed....no.

I still would like to see a game that is an actual living breathing world that allows me to live within it. I would prefer scifi because i am sick of trolls and elves. There are game companies out there still making new styles and such but no one and I repeat no one has made anything innovative in the genre since the mmo market first began.

Some day someone will get the whole living breathing world thing and make a game that is truly that. Unti then I will enjoy playing swtor because at present it is what I enjoy.

I do sort of see what your saying op.

 

:)

 

 

 

 

  Dredphyre

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/10
Posts: 609

fanboi of truth

2/02/12 4:49:15 PM#146

Let's apply the OP's logic to other industries, shall we?

 

"A successful rocket launch by NASA will be bad for the space industry"

"A successful comic book release will be bad for Marvel/D.C."

"A successful board game release will be bad for Hasbro"

 

 

This is the sort of innane logic we're left with in this country: If something is successful, it's a failure.

 

 

  Votan

Novice Member

Joined: 10/04/04
Posts: 290

2/02/12 5:31:05 PM#147

Bad for the industry not really the video game business is not much different than TV and the movies.  How many pawn shows are on tv now since Pawn Stars was so successful?  How many CSI's, NCI's, Law and Order shows do you have?   Most of the time the orginal show is the one with the biggest audience and the rest are trying to take some share of that market.

 

What SWTOR is doing is carving out its section of the WoW market.  I know some are going to say its nothing like WoW, blah, blah but it really offers the same core game with some twist.  Bioware never claimed it to be something new and genre changing so I am really shocked by the shear volume of hate on most forums(it is not just here it is every game forum).  All this shows there is still a market for these type of games, but not remotely close to the orginals success. 

 

For me I realized a long time ago they are not making MMO's for me anymore, it was a hard thing for me to accept but it is the truth.  For many who are really hyped up for GW2 I think they are going to be even more disappointed than they were with SWTOR. 

  ananda

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/08/09
Posts: 43

2/02/12 7:54:47 PM#148
Originally posted by Dredphyre

Let's apply the OP's logic to other industries, shall we?

 

"A successful rocket launch by NASA will be bad for the space industry"

"A successful comic book release will be bad for Marvel/D.C."

"A successful board game release will be bad for Hasbro"

 

 

This is the sort of innane logic we're left with in this country: If something is successful, it's a failure.

 

 

You are not applying it correctly, I think. It is more "A successful conventional chemical-fuel rocket launch by NASA will be bad for the space industry, because now other types of propulsion technology (solar sails, nuclear, etc) will not get any serious look or funding by the higher ups since the old method still works well enough. A failure here may encourage more innovation/experimentation in the search for a next generation rocket engines and be better for the industry as a whole in the long run". As morbid as that sounds, I think he has a point there.

Of course, the other view points mentioned before, that a major failure will simply leave us with no funding whatsoever for anyone in the industry, is possible as well. I don't know enough about the investment climate in the mmo industry (or space industry) to say which is more likely.

Not sure if the point applies for comic or board games, since I'm not familiar with them, is anyone hurting for variety there? I may be able to make the same argument if there are.

  NaughtyP

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 795

2/02/12 8:10:51 PM#149

I used to think SWTOR needed to do badly... but then I start to think of the list of upcoming MMOs. It really is going to be interesting. There are a lot of new games in early development that are vaslty different from the standard games on the market, but even the ones coming out this year are going to change things up a lot. I'm starting to see things in a more positive light now when it comes to the MMO genre, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the success or failure of SWTOR.

Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  Skuz

Novice Member

Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1038

"If you can''t laugh at yourself there''s always someone around to show you how it''s done!"

2/02/12 8:19:26 PM#150

This kind of ass-backwards thinking is something I've even be guilty of subscribing to myself at times, but it simply doesn't hold water, successful things do not hold back other things from being successful, if it has enough of the right stuff to be successful it will create it's own market.

Foo Fighters are successful, does their success stop other bands from becoming successful?...

Star Trek was successful (for most of it's lifetime anyway) didn't stop Stargate etc...

Pizza is successful, doesn't stop people eating Indian meals...

The more you leave the secluded mind-space of the rabid MMO- "fan" the less sound the convulted logic that got you there looks, it's all about perspective & when you sink into thinking like the OP, you've lost that perspective.

  gw1228

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/10
Posts: 94

2/02/12 8:47:37 PM#151

This reminds me when Warhammer Online AOR came out and had a successful launch and then WOW expansion came out

and wiped it clean.  Well EA get ready to experience this again because later this year Guild Wars 2 is coming out.  Now if an "expansion" can wipe out Warhammer online that requires a montly fee  what will Guild Wars 2 do to SWTOR....Guild Wars 2 looks like a much better online experience than SWTOR and it's F2Play.....

  Palladin

Novice Member

Joined: 11/25/10
Posts: 434

2/02/12 9:02:36 PM#152

I think SWTOR is at it's peak I don't think it will attract any more players than it has now and many have already started getting bored and are leaving.

 

I think the number one biggest attraction for this game was slapping the Star Wars Logo  on it the lock in the fanatical cult following Star Wars has.

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  Archeonus

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/10
Posts: 14

2/02/12 10:24:22 PM#153

Who knows?  People want a new environment to play in other than a fantasy setting.

 

I, however, prefer the fantasy setting as indicated by the series below.

Love Guild Wars? Final Fantasy? Harry Potter? Lord of the Rings?
Here is an excerpt from the new series:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/79738399/Archeon-and-the-Virgo-Moon-Excerpt

  RedKatana

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/11
Posts: 212

2/02/12 10:29:18 PM#154

This goes to the OP:

   If you don't like Star Wars and don't want people to play it then don't make Star Wars threads....either your thread is good or bad for Star Wars you are pretty much advertising it. I'm tired of SWTOR threads floating all around the forum.

  Odinthedark1

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/11
Posts: 338

"A fool learns from his own mistakes, a wise man learns from the mistakes of others."

2/02/12 11:15:56 PM#155

All of you whining about this post, he never said SWTOR was a bad game, he simply stated that by it being a succes ur stuck with clones, even if its good it will eventually get boring, what then? all ur left to do is move to another clone...thats the point hes trying to convey and i fully agree, its about time they started using their own imaginations to make games rather thenbasing it of another...i can safely say ive conquered WoW in these past 4 years and now have an 85 of each class, it may be fun but its lost its flare y'know, its about time for sumthin new...and yet wherever i look the games will be WoW clones, ill spend a month if that playing them and eventually ending up straight back to WoW....what the industry needs is a game to steal us away and not temporarily give us a vacation from the big tycoons known as rift, WoW, and swtor.

  Dayzon

Novice Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 55

2/02/12 11:26:47 PM#156

I'm not worried. Investors know  copycats will never outperform the originals.

  Souldrainer

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/06
Posts: 1878

2/03/12 12:38:46 AM#157
Originally posted by Enosh

well then go and support a sandbox mmo so they will have the money to make an aaa game instead of just being a forum version of this:

the hot dog guy is never going to succed if people don't buy his hot dogs

... and people won't buy his hotdogs when his hotdogs suck and three giants are making awesome handburgers as we speak.  Anyway, competition of SWTOR vs Rift vs WOW is a big win for MMO players, because we are going to see three game companies go to war with each other in order to win us over.  When that happens, gamers end up with better products.

Pandaria is going to be a great expansion.  Why?  Because it HAS TO BE!  SWTOR's first expansion will fix a ton of flaws and add a lot of high quality features.  Why?  Because Pandaria won't suck, so they have to step it up.  Trion will need to maintain pace and keep churning out good content.... again, because they have to.

 

 

I would *love* to see a triple A sandbox come out and compete with Minecraft though, because not everybody loves block pushing, and hey... Sandboxes do need to step it up quite a bit, or they will die...

 

But OP, you are sadly mistaken if you think that a sudden "miraculous" failure of SWTOR will do anything for the industry except give Trion and Blizzard more breathing room. 

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  nachofoot

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/24/07
Posts: 118

2/03/12 12:51:01 AM#158
Originally posted by Dredphyre

Let's apply the OP's logic to other industries, shall we?

 

"A successful rocket launch by NASA will be bad for the space industry"

"A successful comic book release will be bad for Marvel/D.C."

"A successful board game release will be bad for Hasbro"

 

 

This is the sort of innane logic we're left with in this country: If something is successful, it's a failure.

 

 

 

No...

 

What the op is saying is more like:

"A successful gas-guzzler will be bad for the car industry"

"A successful bank bailout will be bad for the economy"

"A successful WoW-clone will be bad for future innovation"

  Souldrainer

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/06
Posts: 1878

2/03/12 1:09:05 AM#159
Originally posted by nachofoot
Originally posted by Dredphyre

Let's apply the OP's logic to other industries, shall we?

 

"A successful rocket launch by NASA will be bad for the space industry"

"A successful comic book release will be bad for Marvel/D.C."

"A successful board game release will be bad for Hasbro"

 

 

This is the sort of innane logic we're left with in this country: If something is successful, it's a failure.

 

 

 

No...

 

What the op is saying is more like:

"A successful gas-guzzler will be bad for the car industry"

"A successful bank bailout will be bad for the economy"

"A successful WoW-clone will be bad for future innovation"

Not seeing the bank bailout connection.  The rest of it, I totally understand the ideas, but it has proven largely untrue.  Both gas guzzlers and hybrid cars are growing in popularity these days.  Rift and Minecraft both released in proximity to each other, and both did quite well.  Dredphyre's post makes sense.  The success of one type of game does not inherently block out other types of games from succeeding.  If it did, the only games any of us would be playing right now would be Super Mario Bros 3 clones.

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  Sanisar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/19/09
Posts: 19

2/03/12 1:15:17 AM#160
Originally posted by Souldrainer
Originally posted by nachofoot
Originally posted by Dredphyre

Let's apply the OP's logic to other industries, shall we?

 

"A successful rocket launch by NASA will be bad for the space industry"

"A successful comic book release will be bad for Marvel/D.C."

"A successful board game release will be bad for Hasbro"

 

 

This is the sort of innane logic we're left with in this country: If something is successful, it's a failure.

 

 

 

No...

 

What the op is saying is more like:

"A successful gas-guzzler will be bad for the car industry"

"A successful bank bailout will be bad for the economy"

"A successful WoW-clone will be bad for future innovation"

Not seeing the bank bailout connection.  The rest of it, I totally understand the ideas, but it has proven largely untrue.  Both gas guzzlers and hybrid cars are growing in popularity these days.  Rift and Minecraft both released in proximity to each other, and both did quite well.  Dredphyre's post makes sense.  The success of one type of game does not inherently block out other types of games from succeeding.  If it did, the only games any of us would be playing right now would be Super Mario Bros 3 clones.

The point you are missing is that MMOs cost tens if not hundred of millions of dollars to develop.  If Nintendo games cost that much to develop then there would have been like 2 of them and the second would have been a Mario clone.

It's not about what the market will bear, it's about what investors feel confident in investing in.  Currently the only MMO's that can reap anywhere near the level of funding to produce any semblance of quality are themepark clones.  The rational behind this is twofold: investors don't truly understand the market or its' potential and sandbox games are percieved to be more likely to fail (even thought the vast majority of themepark clones also fail).

The issue/concern of the OP is highly relevant.  If the analogies are confusing to you then don't use them.  The MMO market is not directly comparable to the vast majority of other markets.

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