Originally posted by smh_alot

Originally posted by Zefire

My friend there are games that u play for years and u dont get bored and there are games that u play a month and thats it.

Take for example dota.7 years now and my friends still play it.

Diablo they still play it.

Starcraft 1 and 2 they still play it.

Wow they still f play it.

What seperates a GAME from a game is it's replayability and it's awesome gameplay feel.

Swtor offers only cutscenes which in my opinion is not in my game list but in my movies list.

For people who enjoy bad graphics crap gameplay bad music scores lifeless worlds and singleplayer games with monthly fees with ridiculous  gamebreaker bugs then this is a game for u.

 

That was the last money ea and bioware took from me.Simply because they ruined an ip along with the stupid lucas

 

This is only partially true. Because it represents only SOME gamers. There are enough gamers who played Diablo and SC1/2, etc, liked it and after 1-2 months when they were done with it, stopped playing them and moved on. Also, there are gamers who don't see TOR like you do at all, and don't see it as a waste of the IP or bad gameplay or 'ridiculous gamebreaker bugs' compared to other MMO's, but find it an entertaining, fun MMO. If that's not how you feel about it, sure, that sucks for you. But it'd be a mistake to think that it applies to all gamers.

I call them masochists

Originally posted by Zefire

Originally posted by smh_alot

Originally posted by Zefire

My friend there are games that u play for years and u dont get bored and there are games that u play a month and thats it.

Take for example dota.7 years now and my friends still play it.

Diablo they still play it.

Starcraft 1 and 2 they still play it.

Wow they still f play it.

What seperates a GAME from a game is it's replayability and it's awesome gameplay feel.

Swtor offers only cutscenes which in my opinion is not in my game list but in my movies list.

For people who enjoy bad graphics crap gameplay bad music scores lifeless worlds and singleplayer games with monthly fees with ridiculous  gamebreaker bugs then this is a game for u.

 

That was the last money ea and bioware took from me.Simply because they ruined an ip along with the stupid lucas

 

This is only partially true. Because it represents only SOME gamers. There are enough gamers who played Diablo and SC1/2, etc, liked it and after 1-2 months when they were done with it, stopped playing them and moved on. Also, there are gamers who don't see TOR like you do at all, and don't see it as a waste of the IP or bad gameplay or 'ridiculous gamebreaker bugs' compared to other MMO's, but find it an entertaining, fun MMO. If that's not how you feel about it, sure, that sucks for you. But it'd be a mistake to think that it applies to all gamers.

I call them masochists

Originally posted by smh_alot

Originally posted by Zefire

Originally posted by smh_alot

Originally posted by Zefire

My friend there are games that u play for years and u dont get bored and there are games that u play a month and thats it.

Take for example dota.7 years now and my friends still play it.

Diablo they still play it.

Starcraft 1 and 2 they still play it.

Wow they still f play it.

What seperates a GAME from a game is it's replayability and it's awesome gameplay feel.

Swtor offers only cutscenes which in my opinion is not in my game list but in my movies list.

For people who enjoy bad graphics crap gameplay bad music scores lifeless worlds and singleplayer games with monthly fees with ridiculous  gamebreaker bugs then this is a game for u.

 

That was the last money ea and bioware took from me.Simply because they ruined an ip along with the stupid lucas

 

This is only partially true. Because it represents only SOME gamers. There are enough gamers who played Diablo and SC1/2, etc, liked it and after 1-2 months when they were done with it, stopped playing them and moved on. Also, there are gamers who don't see TOR like you do at all, and don't see it as a waste of the IP or bad gameplay or 'ridiculous gamebreaker bugs' compared to other MMO's, but find it an entertaining, fun MMO. If that's not how you feel about it, sure, that sucks for you. But it'd be a mistake to think that it applies to all gamers.

I call them masochists

 

And there's probably also people who regard gamers playing Diablo, SC, DOTA or WoW for years as masochists -_-

 

Seriously though, simply accept the fact that you got disappointed that TOR wasn't what you'd dreamed of it to be, but that for other people it did fit what they were looking for in an MMORPG, and that their entertainment value of TOR was very satisfactory. You might not like to play golf or watch the Olympics or listen to jazz fusion, but to other people that might be heaven. Different people, different tastes.

There is good jazz music and bad jazz music

People who like certain things know how to seperate good quality versus crap quality.

Would u play golf with a crap button and a crap ball on a crap stage/place?If you were a golf fanatic u wouldnt because u know how good golf play feels.

What the OP is saying is that it isn't HIM, it's you.  This is just psychology.  It's completely irrelevant whether the game is bad on an absolute level or if it's all relative to the player.  Complaining about it not 'fitting' with expectations is valid in either case.

But if someone likes the game, or is trying to like the game, or trying to convince themselves the game is good when it's not, they might see complaints and have to look for some reason why everyone they disagree with is wrong without having to argue any points with them. 

In truth, they are bothered not just by the complaining, but by the very idea that people don't like what they like, and that maybe they like a bad game, or worse yet, they don't even like it and are afraid to face it.  If they didn't fear the idea that the game is the problem, then why post, why not just go and play the game and have fun and avoid forum opinions?

Originally posted by Zefire

There is good jazz music and bad jazz music

People who like certain things know how to seperate good quality versus crap quality.

Would u play golf with a crap button and a crap ball on a crap stage/place?If you were a golf fanatic u wouldnt because u know how good golf play feels.

Originally posted by adam_nox

What the OP is saying is that it isn't HIM, it's you. This is just psychology. It's completely irrelevant whether the game is bad on an absolute level or if it's all relative to the player. Complaining about it not 'fitting' with expectations is valid in either case.

But if someone likes the game, or is trying to like the game, or trying to convince themselves the game is good when it's not, they might see complaints and have to look for some reason why everyone they disagree with is wrong without having to argue any points with them.

In truth, they are bothered not just by the complaining, but by the very idea that people don't like what they like, and that maybe they like a bad game, or worse yet, they don't even like it and are afraid to face it. If they didn't fear the idea that the game is the problem, then why post, why not just go and play the game and have fun and avoid forum opinions?

Got a good laugh here.

Yes, nostalgia is a real thing.  Nothing will ever be as great as the first game that hooked you, but's it's not like I can't enjoy Skyrim because it wasn't Final Fantasy, or Oblivion, or whatever.

Also the arguments you make about what makes an MMO make you look like you have been playing them for a few years tops starting with WoW and ending with clones of WoW.  You should apply for a job on one of these cookie-cutter craptastic MMOs, they all have the same mindset.  MMOs are the most versatile platform a developer could wish for, people (understandably) rage when a genre with so much potential and a studio with so much time/money put out a complete turd like TOR.

Of course the mechanics are old and dated.  Developers need to learn to stop cloning the same exact systems from game to game, no amount of story will make up for stale mechanics.  Even older console RPGs (like FF) changed battle systems every iteration to stay fresh; it never seemed to hurt their sales.

Stop apologizing for professional developers.  Telling them it's ok to sell mediocrity is part of the problem.  They don't need you to apologize for them, they need you to honestly criticize the things you dislike so they (and future developers) can honestly try to improve the genre.

Yes, I'm nostalgic about older games.  But I also recognize quality, imagination, and innovation in design and implementation and TOR has none of the above.

Originally posted by Tenebroso
SWTOR is what it is. I repeat: SWTOR is what it is. You should read it again. SWTOR in its current form bothers you because...you expect something out of a game that can't give you what you need. What you need is to be content and excited about an MMO again, like you were with your first one before you got bored of it. My friends, that feeling will never come back. It is human nature, to get bored and to move on to other things. The thing itself that you once loved and now you don't, is not to blame here. You simply have gotten burned out from MMOs all together, chasing a feeling and a thrill that will never be back, because you have leveled a toon before, and the core elements of an MMO, in order to be an MMO, never change. It is like kissing your first girl, making your first high volume sale, buying your first car, surviving your first public speech. After a while, things just get old. You make a toon, cast spells and swing a weapon at a mob, quest etc...which MMO doesn't have this? Maybe this is what you are bored with? And when an MMO is made which doesn't have all that, will it be an MMO? So, could it be that really this isn't about SWTOR, but actually you trying to make SWTOR what it can never be for you? Truth hurts. Remember: "Situations, don't make the man. They reveal him, to himself" -Socrates Now flame away :-)

/sigh... another predictable poster claiming that SWTOR is disliked by some because of 'burnout'... projecting all it's failures on to the player. This silly notion, which is really just an effort to rationalise others not sharing the posters point of view, has to stop.

It's just a weak tactic that dismisses others PoV without having to look at the points they are making and recognising they might be valid and you might have to adjust how you see this thing.

God forbid some don't like it because it's just pretty... boring.

I actually like themeparks (as well as sandboxes... I just like fun games), but SWTOR just isn't a good themepark- It's a limited, narrow, childish, hand holding, unimaginative, unambitious, and derivative example of a themepark.

All your thread is doing here is inviting posters to list again all their reasons for not liking this game.

Originally posted by I_Return

I agree with the op, I want a deep thought out  game with care taking in each aspect of it;s design. I want pvp to have meaningful rewards (land ownership / seiging), I want to be awe struck with a horizon that can be reached and quests that last months. You are right Op, it is me.

It is also me.

Originally posted by Tenebroso
SWTOR is what it is. I repeat: SWTOR is what it is. You should read it again. SWTOR in its current form bothers you because...you expect something out of a game that can't give you what you need. What you need is to be content and excited about an MMO again, like you were with your first one before you got bored of it. My friends, that feeling will never come back. It is human nature, to get bored and to move on to other things. The thing itself that you once loved and now you don't, is not to blame here. You simply have gotten burned out from MMOs all together, chasing a feeling and a thrill that will never be back, because you have leveled a toon before, and the core elements of an MMO, in order to be an MMO, never change. It is like kissing your first girl, making your first high volume sale, buying your first car, surviving your first public speech. After a while, things just get old. You make a toon, cast spells and swing a weapon at a mob, quest etc...which MMO doesn't have this? Maybe this is what you are bored with? And when an MMO is made which doesn't have all that, will it be an MMO? So, could it be that really this isn't about SWTOR, but actually you trying to make SWTOR what it can never be for you? Truth hurts. Remember: "Situations, don't make the man. They reveal him, to himself" -Socrates Now flame away :-)

Then why is it that I can go back to EQ1,Vanguard, or Rift and have tons more fun than in ToR?

ToR is a poorly made "MMO" in its current state.When as many people are expressing their dissatisfaction as there are then its not really a 'its you' thing..

Originally posted by Zefire

There is good jazz music and bad jazz music

People who like certain things know how to seperate good quality versus crap quality.

Indeed.

Can you imagine, in that jazz conversation, one guy saying to another, 'if you don't like what I like it's because you no longer like jazz'.

It really is a silly way to try and protect an opinion about a game.

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Originally posted by psyknx

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Originally posted by Chieftan

Get a  life.

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Posts: 1195

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This is weird. When I was half awake this morning argueing this very point with myself.

AGREE: On the one hand I think they've made a pretty solid game, it probably is my fault I overplayed this genre. This would seem to explain why I find myself, less than 2 months in, increasingly reluctant to log into a game that really should tickle my G spots in all the right places.

DISAGREE: On the other hand, it is quite clearly marketed to an audience of people like me who enjoy this kind of game. I can't be held responsible for their lack of foresight that the gargantuan post-wow audience would be starting to get a pain in their arses with being spoonfed the same thing in different clothes. Furthermore, it's not the same as WOW (and preceeding games of the genre) were at the beginning, I dont remember nearly as many souless locales, environmental limitations and invisible walls. Part of the charm of the preceeding games of this genre was that, even if they were limited and themeparky, they felt open, alive, like there was life in every sea-shell and your roaming options were next to limitless. There are far too many big and small things here that do the opposite to make it 'my fault' I and many others are not enjoying it as much as we 'should'.

Originally posted by Tenebroso
SWTOR is what it is. I repeat: SWTOR is what it is. You should read it again. SWTOR in its current form bothers you because...you expect something out of a game that can't give you what you need. What you need is to be content and excited about an MMO again, like you were with your first one before you got bored of it. My friends, that feeling will never come back. It is human nature, to get bored and to move on to other things. The thing itself that you once loved and now you don't, is not to blame here. You simply have gotten burned out from MMOs all together, chasing a feeling and a thrill that will never be back, because you have leveled a toon before, and the core elements of an MMO, in order to be an MMO, never change. It is like kissing your first girl, making your first high volume sale, buying your first car, surviving your first public speech. After a while, things just get old. You make a toon, cast spells and swing a weapon at a mob, quest etc...which MMO doesn't have this? Maybe this is what you are bored with? And when an MMO is made which doesn't have all that, will it be an MMO? So, could it be that really this isn't about SWTOR, but actually you trying to make SWTOR what it can never be for you? Truth hurts. Remember: "Situations, don't make the man. They reveal him, to himself" -Socrates Now flame away :-)

Okay, except you're totally wrong!   Congratulations. 

I just started playing an older mmorpg and Im having a blast and have for several months now.  Its called Pirates of the Burning Sea.  I started with UO.  I've played plenty of WoW and experimented with others. 

The reason Im not pleased with Swtor is Ive played better games and I know what the industry can deliver.  Some movies I love, others I hate.  It has nothing to do with the fact Im still in love with my first movie and yearn for every movie to excite me as much. 

Your entire reasoning is flawed unfortunately.  The reason people are disatisfied with Swtor (if indeed they are) is because they've played better games, mmorpgs and otherwise and have come to expect better from the industry as a whole.  Even you could admit Swtor could have been much better.  Why?  Because you've probably seen far better.  We know it can be done.  It was not done here. 

Period. 

The fact the end-game is 100% crap is not my fault. The Champion Bag idea was horrible, PVP is generically not fun at 50 due to severe gear caps (people having top gear due to Ilum exploitation and BW refusing to roll them back). Servers are inbalanced, because for some reason they did not implement a faction balance similar to what Aion has. With that, as a Republic player I cannot go to Ilum and enjoy what it was created for as 40+ Empire players sit outside the Republic landing zone waiting for kills, Warzones are thus inbalanced as those players get ahead due to progression and us being the cause of their progression.

TL;DR - It is Bioware's fault, not ours.

Originally posted by Celusios

The fact the end-game is 100% crap is not my fault. The Champion Bag idea was horrible, PVP is generically not fun at 50 due to severe gear caps (people having top gear due to Ilum exploitation and BW refusing to roll them back). Servers are inbalanced, because for some reason they did not implement a faction balance similar to what Aion has. With that, as a Republic player I cannot go to Ilum and enjoy what it was created for as 40+ Empire players sit outside the Republic landing zone waiting for kills, Warzones are thus inbalanced as those players get ahead due to progression and us being the cause of their progression.

TL;DR - It is Bioware's fault, not ours.

This is my exact experience.

I would also like to add, if it wasnt for damn SWG and me being an absolute die hard reb, i would just roll sith and clearly have much more FUN. For some reason i just cant get into the "evil" side of video games. They even look cooler, have much better titles, and every single example of an accidental "mirroring imbalance" benefits the Empire and not the Republic..... on accident they say, complete oversight.

Then, the Ilum patch. It was made very, very clear on the PTR forum what would happen with the patch release. The exact scenario happened. Thousands of full battlemaster empire now. The are more Empire in full battlemaster than there are Republic *in total*. That is how bad the imbalance is. The Ilum patch allowed Empire to exploit for several days. Bioware was warned. Bioware apologized nicely, but refused to rollback or punish anyone. If you're curious, they are still "investigating"....................................................................................................................

Even the "fixes" they patch in, bringing servers down at midnight... pacific... every 3 days... then weekly maintenance, and very, very rarely do they "fix" what the servers were brought down for. Let me give you one example. The other night they applied a "fix". This lead to 2 straight days of the "loading screen" just randomly popping up anytime during gameplay. Yeah, you know. The screen that covers the whole screen while you load into a new world or zone? Many games have this, even WoW. Well, the worst part of it was, it didnt just pop up and sit there, it FLASHED. CONSTANTLY. Every few seconds. This is one example of a myriad of embarassing mistakes, i can list more but people just call me a trol and a hater.

I have never looked forward to a video game more and i knew it was themepark, not sandbox. Still, ive never been more dissapointed or felt more "fooled" in my life. The last year of hype, is what i consider false advertisement.

Originally posted by psyknx

Originally posted by Chieftan

Get a  life.

Posts: 1195

Joined: 5/16/05

Originally posted by Tenebroso
SWTOR is what it is. I repeat: SWTOR is what it is. You should read it again. SWTOR in its current form bothers you because...you expect something out of a game that can't give you what you need. What you need is to be content and excited about an MMO again, like you were with your first one before you got bored of it. My friends, that feeling will never come back. It is human nature, to get bored and to move on to other things. The thing itself that you once loved and now you don't, is not to blame here. You simply have gotten burned out from MMOs all together, chasing a feeling and a thrill that will never be back, because you have leveled a toon before, and the core elements of an MMO, in order to be an MMO, never change. It is like kissing your first girl, making your first high volume sale, buying your first car, surviving your first public speech. After a while, things just get old. You make a toon, cast spells and swing a weapon at a mob, quest etc...which MMO doesn't have this? Maybe this is what you are bored with? And when an MMO is made which doesn't have all that, will it be an MMO? So, could it be that really this isn't about SWTOR, but actually you trying to make SWTOR what it can never be for you? Truth hurts. Remember: "Situations, don't make the man. They reveal him, to himself" -Socrates Now flame away :-)

Your theory (and thats all it is) may apply to a few of the dissatisfied SWTOR players but certainly not all. I didnt get bored with SWTOR I simply found the entire experience uninspired, I never tried Rift and I only played WoW a short time as It didnt interest me. Infact before I got SWTOR I had not played an MMO in 10 months.

So I think your theory only applies to a small percentage of SWTOR players who have not subbed after their OOTB time expired.

Originally posted by tristanryan

Originally posted by Celusios

The fact the end-game is 100% crap is not my fault. The Champion Bag idea was horrible, PVP is generically not fun at 50 due to severe gear caps (people having top gear due to Ilum exploitation and BW refusing to roll them back). Servers are inbalanced, because for some reason they did not implement a faction balance similar to what Aion has. With that, as a Republic player I cannot go to Ilum and enjoy what it was created for as 40+ Empire players sit outside the Republic landing zone waiting for kills, Warzones are thus inbalanced as those players get ahead due to progression and us being the cause of their progression.

TL;DR - It is Bioware's fault, not ours.

 

This is my exact experience.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would also like to add, if it wasnt for damn SWG and me being an absolute die hard reb, i would just roll sith and clearly have much more FUN. For some reason i just cant get into the "evil" side of video games. They even look cooler, have much better titles, and every single example of an accidental "mirroring imbalance" benefits the Empire and not the Republic..... on accident they say, complete oversight.

Then, the Ilum patch. It was made very, very clear on the PTR forum what would happen with the patch release. The exact scenario happened. Thousands of full battlemaster empire now. The are more Empire in full battlemaster than there are Republic *in total*. That is how bad the imbalance is. The Ilum patch allowed Empire to exploit for several days. Bioware was warned. Bioware apologized nicely, but refused to rollback or punish anyone. If you're curious, they are still "investigating"....................................................................................................................

Even the "fixes" they patch in, bringing servers down at midnight... pacific... every 3 days... then weekly maintenance, and very, very rarely do they "fix" what the servers were brought down for. Let me give you one example. The other night they applied a "fix". This lead to 2 straight days of the "loading screen" just randomly popping up anytime during gameplay. Yeah, you know. The screen that covers the whole screen while you load into a new world or zone? Many games have this, even WoW. Well, the worst part of it was, it didnt just pop up and sit there, it FLASHED. CONSTANTLY. Every few seconds. This is one example of a myriad of embarassing mistakes, i can list more but people just call me a trol and a hater.

I have never looked forward to a video game more and i knew it was themepark, not sandbox. Still, ive never been more dissapointed or felt more "fooled" in my life. The last year of hype, is what i consider false advertisement.

Exactly. I myself based on the movies and what-not am a die hard Republic, or rather Jedi in general fan. Not to mention I don't like to play a video game cruel. I'd rather save a group of people than kill them all for no reason, in my playstyle. Sith would never fit me as a Light Side Sith still has to make those harsh decisions.