Originally posted by alacres

Originally posted by bossalinie
"Rise up everyone and quit playing what you enjoy and what fits you to save me..."

Am I doing it right?

No. Try actually reading and comprehending the thread and then reply.

 

OP, I commend and agree with the sentiment of your thread, but I'm thinking your points will be swooshing over the heads of most people that come to it. Reading isn't a strong suit, in the US at least.

Ah yes, the "I'm smarter than everyone else and therefore have better taste" argument.  A classic, certainly.

Originally posted by Strayfe

Originally posted by bossalinie
"Rise up everyone and quit playing what you enjoy and what fits you to save me..."

Am I doing it right?

I didn't say quit playing it.  I am not so naive that I believe anyone will magically wake up and change their opinion.  Instead, I made this post to get fans of SWTOR to explain to me one thing, and one thing only.

"As a fan of SWTOR, do you feel that your playstyle and games that suit you should be the only games being made?"

That's the attitude of SWTOR fanboys, who don't realize that their fun comes (indirectly) at the expense of others, and then wonder why those others are flaming their game on the forums.

This makes no sense.  How do we control what games are made except by not playing the ones you don't think deserve to be played?

Wait...didn't 95% of the MMORPGs out there suck before TOR came along? I don't think that will change regardless of TORs success or failure.

Originally posted by Strayfe

Originally posted by bossalinie
"Rise up everyone and quit playing what you enjoy and what fits you to save me..."

Am I doing it right?

I didn't say quit playing it.  I am not so naive that I believe anyone will magically wake up and change their opinion.  Instead, I made this post to get fans of SWTOR to explain to me one thing, and one thing only.

"As a fan of SWTOR, do you feel that your playstyle and games that suit you should be the only games being made?"

That's the attitude of SWTOR fanboys, who don't realize that their fun comes (indirectly) at the expense of others, and then wonder why those others are flaming their game on the forums.

Nice post, and I agree completely that having the same one item on the menu since 2004 is incredibly frustrating in a genre that could have grown in so many interesting ways. It's been a sad seven plus years of watching the entire industry wallow in mediocrity as they scrambled to pump out clunky clones that not only failed to advance the genre but also failed to offer any new experience.

The only possible tiny exception has been watching WARs public quests evolve into Rifts invasions/rifts which evolved further into what we're seeing with GW2s event system. But that is one small aspect in games that by and large play the same and offer the same experiences (not counting GW2 as I have no experience with it and so far all the evidence seems to suggest it won't be the exact same old thing). 

Not to mention that if these bland and shallow little theme parks actually had some well funded competition their quality would most likely improve as a result. Which one would assume these themepark fans would probably like.

I could be wrong of course, they do seem to eat up any slick new clone as long as it's WoW with one new bullet point gimmick tacked on.

So many peple are quick to insert 'If it's not broken, don't fix it' into any debate casting a negative light on their game of choice when it becomes accused of offering the same old stale assortment of basic systems. How about if it's not broken, don't try and produce a cheap knock off of it and expect different results than the others in a long line of mediocre clones?

Anyway, there at least seem to be ripples on the pond as developers seem to be realising offering the same old thing that was offered 7 years ago isn't going to break any records, or as one of the Pathfinder devs put it, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. . While they may be small ripples, games like ArcheAge (http://www.archeage.com/en), Pathfinder (https://goblinworks.com/) and possibly even GW2 appear to be trying a different approach.

It's a glimmer of hope at least for an industry that's been on creative 'pause' since WoWs success.

---

Originally posted by Strayfe
"As a fan of SWTOR, do you feel that your playstyle and games that suit you should be the only games being made?"
That's the attitude of SWTOR fanboys, who don't realize that their fun comes (indirectly) at the expense of others, and then wonder why those others are flaming their game on the forums.

---

Show me ONE forum member that think the only types of mmos being made should be SWTOR. I'll give you a hint: there aren't any. I think a lot of this stuff exists only in your mind.

well then go and support a sandbox mmo so they will have the money to make an aaa game instead of just being a forum version of this:

the hot dog guy is never going to succed if people don't buy his hot dogs

Originally posted by smh_alot

Originally posted by Strayfe

Originally posted by bossalinie
"Rise up everyone and quit playing what you enjoy and what fits you to save me..."

Am I doing it right?

I didn't say quit playing it.  I am not so naive that I believe anyone will magically wake up and change their opinion.  Instead, I made this post to get fans of SWTOR to explain to me one thing, and one thing only.

"As a fan of SWTOR, do you feel that your playstyle and games that suit you should be the only games being made?"

That's the attitude of SWTOR fanboys, who don't realize that their fun comes (indirectly) at the expense of others, and then wonder why those others are flaming their game on the forums.

 

That's a simple one. Most people enjoying TOR or other themepark MMO's like LotrO, Aion, Rift, WoW etc will say 'no'.

 

Seems to me you're the one with the problem bc you feel that everyone enjoying themepark MMO's should feel guilty about it. So, here's a question back: as an anti TOR/themepark person (which I assume is the case based on your OP? correct me if I'm wrong), do you feel that your playstyle and games that suit you should be the only games being made?

It's clear from reading his post that the answer is no, he doesn't feel that way.  Fact is, the gold standard is themeparks right now. I enjoy both stylings myself, however, he has a point.  It's clearly stated. Themeparks are king and have been, yet there are a lot of gamers out there that don't have a place to go, and SWTOR is not the answer for them.  They may have wanted it to be, and became angry that another hopeful title was not what they wanted.  Each of these titles coming out is the same thing, and as they succeed as this one has, it will be even longer until a company grows a pair and takes a shot on game styles they like.  I personally am glad you are enjoying the game, but it's less that tact to respond as you did, to someone that is upset at the state of the genre now. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean others don't. 

Couldnt agree more with OP, by the way i just preordered mini-TERA-game today, see you around standard monkey-thinkers.

Originally posted by Valkaern

Anyway, there at least seem to be ripples on the pond as developers seem to be realising offering the same old thing that was offered 7 years ago isn't going to break any records, or as one of the Pathfinder devs put it, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. . While they may be small ripples, games like ArcheAge (http://www.archeage.com/en), Pathfinder (https://goblinworks.com/) and possibly even GW2 appear to be trying a different approach.

It's a glimmer of hope at least for an industry that's been on creative 'pause' since WoWs success.

Originally posted by Davirok

Couldnt agree more with OP, by the way i just preordered mini-TERA-game today, see you around standard monkey-thinkers.

No.

A lack of success means less investors in the industry.  There is no such thing as a successful MMO being bad for the industry.  For instance, people run at the mouth about WoW being bad for the industry... the only way this industry has so many investors and new games popping up is because of WoWs success.

It's sad how poorly people actually understand how industry works.  

Sure i would like more choices, but anyone that thinks a success is bad for the industry, is just too opinionated to see clearly.

I see a lot of folks saying how great a sandbox game would be, and i always say the same thing, how do you or anyone know?

We have never had one. Not a modern one at any rate. Not a one since the good old days. Until someone makes one, we will never know.

And no, it is not a gamer problem, or people that like certain type games, we just have not had a "good" game made with open world, period. Each and every one has had major problems, from bugs to just horrible games, with terrible launches.

I sure hope that some day a decent example comes along, then we will see how an open world game does. Until then, it is just guessing that that type of game would make any difference at all in the end.

And for sure it is not the fault nor an excuse to get all heated up at the gamers that want to play a decent game, no matter what type it is.

A success bad for the industry? Naw,  just for certain gamers, that are tired of what the Dev's are making is all.

Originally posted by Davirok

Couldnt agree more with OP, by the way i just preordered mini-TERA-game today, see you around standard monkey-thinkers.

Having played the Korean version I can tell you that aside from the combat differences the game is basically a themepark like TOR.   Gorgeous game though, can't wait until the NA launch.  Welcome to the monkey clan.

I don't like the way the game has turned out.....

But this is just, in the words of Charles Barkley, "tuurrrible"

Most people will be looking at second quarter numbers, knowing launches are always hyped.  Actually, it's the second quarter or so where you can start to develop strong opinions about a game.  It's been around for a few months, the hype has worn off, how does it stack up?

World of Warcraft did this, and had a stronger second quarter when it launched.  People were addicted, they told friends, the content stayed fresh, etc.  They then became the soulless leviathan that every MMO gamer hated (but most, like a heroin addiction or a homophobic televangelist, were loving it in secret.)

After the first month, they will see a sub drop.  That's inevitable.  The question is how they react to it.

Spot on OP. I have written numerous articles for another gaming site that saw this coming two years ago. The next 5-10 years will be mediocre success after mediocre success of ultra casual crap fest games.

TOR being successful will not hurt the genre. I think it's a good game that needs a few systems to make it a great game. When i first heard about the game and how it was gonna be more themepark than sandbox, i really didn't care that much. I was a lost pre-cu SWG drifter that has played many games, WOW being the most, so i was use to that type of gameplay.

Now since i have been playing TOR for over a month now, i stil think it's a good game, but i can clearly see some of the drawbacks and lack of certain systems that do affect the overall gameplay.

I just recieved a email from Bioware, wanting my feedback on how i think the game is doing and such. pretty sure most of you that are playing the game got that email as well. I thought this was a good chance to give some suggestions on what i think would make the game even better than it is.

PVE, class story and those quests are honestly for me the best ever. The planets are nice and big, but really don't bring the community together like they should. Those big cantina's should be a place for coming together and socializing with others on that server and having a place to hang out other than grouping up for just combat. I think they should add a entertainer profession, that could give out small stat increase's by watching dance's or playing music. Make those places come alive on all those planets.

I would also get rid of server types. Who needs all those different servers. You want to RP,  PVE, PVP, that can be accomplished on one server.

For PVP, i would add the pvp system that pre-cu SWG had, the overt/covert system. I would still keep the instanced battegrounds for obtaining commendations to get pvp gear. I would have all the ranking systems and such. For open world pvp though, SWG system would be perfect. I would have it where you couldn't get pvp gear at all. I would give out pvp points, where if enough accumilated, you could go to a vendor and buy new titles and non stat SW things that wouldn't affect combat. New speeders and vehicles, at-st's and stuff like that.

I would make bases spawn on random planets, that needed to be won/held for a certain time. Whichever faction won and held the bases when time was up, that faction would get a slight stat increase and a lower vendor cost on all item's. When the bases respawned they would be in a totally different location on random planets again.

For faction imbalance, whichever faction had less people, i would spawn tough elite NPC's to even things out. The more actual players joined, those NPC's would start to disappear.

These are just a few things, i think, would make TOR a much better mmorpg and i don't think it would take a whole lot for Bioware to implement.

[mod edit] Failure does not encourage variety. If SW:Tor failed then there would be very little to no money being invested into MMO's the money would be invested somewhere else showing more profit (movies, tv, gold, bonds etc.) In fact If SW:Tor does well this will bring more investors to MMO's willing to take a chance on something new/different.

   The OP should really think it through from a investors stand point maybe even research investnebrt trends rather then make blanket doom/gloom statesments because SW:Tor is not the sandbox game he wanted. 

I agree with the op.  I think the more corporate the genre becomes with stock options.investors ect, the less of a commitment a developers has to the actual player. The sad part about this is people keep  buying the games because of the "brand name" and not the actual packaged content.