The game has enough to hold me for a few months still at least.  We'll see what those bring and I'll see then.

Originally posted by olepi

1) the worlds appeared to be dead. No living creatures, no wind, no weather, no seasons, no NPC's living in the world. Dead.

While I'd agree that "NPC's living in the world" are sparse, at least given the size of the worlds, it's entirely wrong to say they don't exist.

There is weather.  I take it you never got to Hoth, Dromund Kaas, or Tatooine.  Still, I'd agree that there should be more of it.  I'd say that of most MMO's.

Only one MMO that I know of has seasons.-Ryzom.

But back to the whole "living world" thing, which is a common criticism, I wouldn't say it's unwarranted.  But I do think that people miss out on alot of things.  If you stop for a bit and take a look around, you catch alot more going on.  My last visit to Ord Mantell was the first time(after months of playing) I noticed that shuttles were being blasted out of the sky.  Seems like I see something new every time I stay in one spot for more than 30 seconds.

I think there's one big contributing factor to this sentiment though, and that's audio.  Audio just seems extremely buggy in busy places.  ambient effects boom in and vanish in unnatural ways; things like speeders go quiet abruptly and  inexplicably as you pass through different areas.  In short, I think there are sounds that simply aren't triggering when they should, and so you have alot of "miming" going on.

I never found a class that fit for me, so that was the major sticking point.

I personally would have been happier with less MMO in the game and more..say Co-RPG. I would have probably played through each classes story if there was less Fedex and kill 10 mob quests.

Short answer:nothing, it's too old hat to keep me interested.

Originally posted by baritone3k

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by DeaconX

Originally posted by DKLond

1. I would have liked a design that wasn't creatively bankrupt, with some SIGNIFICANT innovations.

2. I would have liked open world PvP in the vicinity of what they promised, instead of the blatant lie of what's actually there.

3. An engine that could handle more than 12 people in close proximity on a high-end rig.

4. Something other than 100% vertical gear progression as the entirety of the end-game experience.

5. All the voice-over work and presentation of the side-quests should have been dedicated to the class stories instead, and then the side-quests themselves would be presented like the INCREDIBLY bland combat-filler bullshit tasks that they really are.

6. A meaningful Space Combat implementation. Ideally, a free roaming space segment - complete with PvP combat. I can't think of a more obvious avenue of success than this - and any engine should be able to handle ~24-48 ships in proximity with a black starry background and a colorful nebula texture.

7. Responsive combat system.

8. A less complicated/mess gear customization system.

9. Worlds/planets with ambient sounds and a soul - rather than dreary linear open spaces.

10. Weather system and a day/night cycle.

11.  A proper "auction house" with up-to-date functionality.

12. Etc.

All of this, plus a more appealing art direction as I think almost everything their art department did is utterly uninspired, uncool, and unattractive.

Star Wars as an MMORPG is just not meant to be a straight up themepark.  Single player Star Wars games do that already... Star Wars fans want to live in this galaxy far far away.  A Themepark/Sandbox hybrid theory should have been worked at early design stages imho.

Honestly, I could go on about how this game is NOT the Star Wars MMORPG I was looking for...

Says who?  You?  You are now the only word to come to what is appropriate in Star Wars games? 

Sorry, I disagree... as do many others.

Anyways, sandbox games are not a populat breed.  The only one that has shown any success is EvE.  And, even then it's a love v. hate relationship with that game.  Personally, I think it's an Excell spreadsheet with a gaming GUI attached to it.  But, I'm not going to state my dislike on it is the end-all-be-all opinion.  Unlike you, I understand that people have games that they like and dislike. 

My opinion is just that... mine.  Your opinion is just that... yours.  Neither of us speaks for what should or should not be.  Yet, you did, and you were called out on it.

Methinks this guy didn't read the thread's title. It speficially asks for people's reasons for not subbing.

This is exactly what was requested. No one is trying to shove thier preferences down anyone else's throat.

Methinks you didn't read DeaconX's post.  Because that is what he exactly did.

No one is forbidding me from giving my opinion.  Which, I was correcting DeaconX for his statements that he thinks that he knows whats best for SWTOR.

No ability delay. I played for a week and never came back.

i feel your pain jd, the last thing i ever want to see are those raghouls.

But to the op, the huge load screens were a major turn off, i like to trade and 50 items per char then a huge wait to log another alt just became too annoying, i enjoyed the story lines but as soon as i tried to group or pvp my abilities were a joke and so delayed it wasnt fun to play.

Also as a healer i like helping people out a heal here a buff there but i was running around this huge new mmo and was like where is everyone? just felt wierd to see so few people.

I guess if they can sort the ability delay whilst grouping and increase the amount 1 char can use on the gtn i would try it again.

Originally posted by baritone3k

6. Load Screen/Instancing - Why is it that once it takes me an instant to get from Hoth to Ilum but takes a combined minute or so of loading screens to get from my ship to the planets themselves? I press the travel button on Ilum from Hoth - 2 extremes of the knock universe and the starts lengthen to represent hyperspace then a picture of Ilum is there and I can step out of my ship and be in Ilum space. But then I have to load screens for each section.

 

There ya go. A wall of text.

I will edit it after I post it.

Forgive me if your question is a rhetorical question and not a technical one, because I aim to answer it technically.

The reality(of the game) is that by clicking to go to a planet, you haven't done squat to travel, as far as the game is concerned.  Your ship's galactic map is essentially a remarkably pretty dropdown menu with all the planets and space missions listed.  By clicking on the travel button, you are just selecting the option in the dropdown list, and when you click on your door, you're clicking the "OK" button.  This is when the system starts loading the planet/space mission.

The thing to understand is, there's a point in which you have to load something.  It may seem more "game matching" to have that occur when you make your selection on the map.  But would having a load screen occur as you select your planet be any better than where it's at, now?  How annoying would it be to choose the wrong planet by accident and have to wait, then pick the right one and wait, again?

Originally posted by Robsolf

Originally posted by olepi

1) the worlds appeared to be dead. No living creatures, no wind, no weather, no seasons, no NPC's living in the world. Dead.

While I'd agree that "NPC's living in the world" are sparse, at least given the size of the worlds, it's entirely wrong to say they don't exist.

There is weather.  I take it you never got to Hoth, Dromund Kaas, or Tatooine.  Still, I'd agree that there should be more of it.  I'd say that of most MMO's.

Only one MMO that I know of has seasons.-Ryzom.

But back to the whole "living world" thing, which is a common criticism, I wouldn't say it's unwarranted.  But I do think that people miss out on alot of things.  If you stop for a bit and take a look around, you catch alot more going on.  My last visit to Ord Mantell was the first time(after months of playing) I noticed that shuttles were being blasted out of the sky.  Seems like I see something new every time I stay in one spot for more than 30 seconds.

I think there's one big contributing factor to this sentiment though, and that's audio.  Audio just seems extremely buggy in busy places.  ambient effects boom in and vanish in unnatural ways; things like speeders go quiet abruptly and  inexplicably as you pass through different areas.  In short, I think there are sounds that simply aren't triggering when they should, and so you have alot of "miming" going on.

audio has issues everywhere sometimes npc conversations will follow you to 3 rooms away. Ambient noises dissapearing  or just stopping for no reason.. many are just missing.  the big thing is there is a lot of space in many areas and even if theres few npcs not doing anything like most mmos at least in most mmos you see a lot of people around.. in most mmos the main towns are packed with people you see tons of people in many of the zones as well. Here i see a semi-decent amount in the fleet but hardly anyone running around in many areas I have traveled. All this together creates a huge sense of the lifeless game world so its just not 1 single thing for me its a combination of all these things.

For me it came down to game mechanics and the way the game was designed. When I played one of the open betas I thought this game would be enough to hold me untill GW2 came out(was expecting that sometime in March or April at the time). I knew from the getgo that this game was not the type I would normally play (themepark on mega rails, very linear, quest based advancement), however, the game was constructed very well and I still think well made for what it is and I was enjoying the story and the story missions.

The reason I quit and did not resub was very simple - Boredom. The quests get stale after a while - there is very little interaction on a social level within the context of the game - and pvp while enjoyable overall was very poorly thought out for long term. So in short without a complete redesign of the game(which I do not expect) there is nothing they could do to hold me as a customer.

Originally posted by Robsolf

Originally posted by olepi

1) the worlds appeared to be dead. No living creatures, no wind, no weather, no seasons, no NPC's living in the world. Dead.

While I'd agree that "NPC's living in the world" are sparse, at least given the size of the worlds, it's entirely wrong to say they don't exist.

There is weather.  I take it you never got to Hoth, Dromund Kaas, or Tatooine.  Still, I'd agree that there should be more of it.  I'd say that of most MMO's.

Only one MMO that I know of has seasons.-Ryzom.

But back to the whole "living world" thing, which is a common criticism, I wouldn't say it's unwarranted.  But I do think that people miss out on alot of things.  If you stop for a bit and take a look around, you catch alot more going on.  My last visit to Ord Mantell was the first time(after months of playing) I noticed that shuttles were being blasted out of the sky.  Seems like I see something new every time I stay in one spot for more than 30 seconds.

I think there's one big contributing factor to this sentiment though, and that's audio.  Audio just seems extremely buggy in busy places.  ambient effects boom in and vanish in unnatural ways; things like speeders go quiet abruptly and  inexplicably as you pass through different areas.  In short, I think there are sounds that simply aren't triggering when they should, and so you have alot of "miming" going on.

I return to my favorite youtube clip. Whoever posted it is my hero.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3Rrk6lgi24

From 1:20 to 2:10, though the whole thing is a good indication of what I mean. This sort of thing is simply unacceptable, you can't have npc's stuck in mid-action like that, it looks unnatural and.. frankly.. plain stupid. And things like that happen everywhere you go.

The weather you talk of is again just a static place holder, it isn't weather changes per-se, it's a location that has been told to show rain or snow. Again, it's like a painting, it's set up to look like something and that something will never change no matter how long you stand around looking at it.

I remember seeing those shuttles being blasted too and while I thought for a moment, "Wow, cool..", I was then distracted by the row of four troops with a commander silently walking up and down, motioning as if he's telling them something, or giving some sort of rousing speech. But it was all silence.

It's like they've put these things in the game, the commander, the npc's outside the Jedi Temple, but forgot or didn't have time to apply animations and sounds to them. I'm hoping that in the future they'll have finally got around to doing so and the world will finally look like a world, but I'm not holding my breath...

Honestly nothing.  Played the class I wanted to see the story of and frankly enjoyed it to a point.  Would never play through again as it would bore me to tears though.  The worlds are dead, community fragmented and you get to the top so quick that other than a buggy operation and some rather lackluster pvp there is nothing to do.  Honestly it was one of the best single player games I have played in a long while but the MMO part was less than adequate. 

Originally posted by UsualSuspect

I return to my favorite youtube clip. Whoever posted it is my hero.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3Rrk6lgi24

From 1:20 to 2:10, though the whole thing is a good indication of what I mean. This sort of thing is simply unacceptable, you can't have npc's stuck in mid-action like that, it looks unnatural and.. frankly.. plain stupid. And things like that happen everywhere you go.

The weather you talk of is again just a static place holder, it isn't weather changes per-se, it's a location that has been told to show rain or snow. Again, it's like a painting, it's set up to look like something and that something will never change no matter how long you stand around looking at it.

I remember seeing those shuttles being blasted too and while I thought for a moment, "Wow, cool..", I was then distracted by the row of four troops with a commander silently walking up and down, motioning as if he's telling them something, or giving some sort of rousing speech. But it was all silence.

It's like they've put these things in the game, the commander, the npc's outside the Jedi Temple, but forgot or didn't have time to apply animations and sounds to them. I'm hoping that in the future they'll have finally got around to doing so and the world will finally look like a world, but I'm not holding my breath...

I wouldn't argue with the evidence, and I'd agree that that's pretty lame.  AND, I'd bet you're right as to your conclusions as to the WHY.  But for ME, it's not worth quitting over.  The longer it remains that way, however, the more embarrassing and inept it will look.

My experience with the weather conditions is that they aren't static.  The amount of change from moment to moment isn't really enough, IMO.  But my point to the post I was quoting was that there ARE things in the game that they were saying WERE NOT there.

Originally posted by Robsolf

I wouldn't argue with the evidence, and I'd agree that that's pretty lame.  AND, I'd bet you're right as to your conclusions as to the WHY.  But for ME, it's not worth quitting over.  The longer it remains that way, however, the more embarrassing and inept it will look.

My experience with the weather conditions is that they aren't static.  The amount of change from moment to moment isn't really enough, IMO.  But my point to the post I was quoting was that there ARE things in the game that they were saying WERE NOT there.

please show me where weather is not static every place I have seen rain it is always raining in that same spot

Two things would have retained me: 1, less teenagers in the game ( I mean it.) 2, better cc mechanisms & cooldowns.

I want to do two things in a game...craft & pvp. That's it. Whatever else I do is just gravy.

A dungeon finder with relatively short wait times would have secured my subscription for a month.  I won't return until this is implemented, but I predict major issues. 

1) two dps per tank/healer pair is much too low If they wanted to correct some of the problems from WOW they would make 6 man flashpoints.

2) I do not think they want to or can implement cross server group finding in the next year.  This will only extend wait times for a dungeon finder.

A polished, full 3D multiplayer space combat could possibly get me back, but not right away.  I'll wait to see how there implementation is.

I don't think there is much of anything they can do to get me motivated for PVP.  I only ranked to about 25, mostly after hitting 50.  I hated the random champion ger in bags.  Lotteries are bad and so it's better to just make everyone go through the same amount of effort to get those rewards.  Their Ilum fiasco should have resulted in full rollbacks for everyone and capped daily valor gains in world PVP.  They did neither and haven't shown an inclination to understanding the problems they have created or how to fix them.

I will be watching what they do in the next 6 months, but I will not take anything on faith.  I'll wait until there has been adequate time to evaluate additions.  I loved leveling my main.  My alt got to around level 37 before I decided to quit.  That experience wasn't nearly as fun as 90% of the quests were identical to my first go around.  I'd rather try out other games than pay a subscription to level alts.

If it was part of the post-WoW MMORPGs coming out instead of being firmly attached to the WoW era of MMORPG design.  I'm just not that interested in playing a game that twisted the Star Wars lore and pretzled it into the WoW formula.

Originally posted by Alders

I may have been able to stick with it despite the huge laundry list of issues had the game been B2P. I enjoyed certain aspects but not enough of them are viable to warrant a monthly fee.

I 100% would have continued if it was B2P.  Expectations are far lower and I won't resent paying a subscription if I barely play or just level alts. 

I'd prefer a model where I pay for content I want.  If I just want to level characters, then the box price pays for it.  If I want to run level 50 instances I can pay to unlock them.  If I want to unlock PVP I pay for that.  The unlock fees can be monthly or one time, depending on the game.  Obviously such a model is more complicated for the server and to a lesser extend the engine.  You should pay for what you use rather than having everyone pay the same price each month.

NO world sharding(aka No cor 1, cor 14, cor 129, etc..) and any four of the following:
 
1.  Non Cliche storylines.
2.  Immersive worlds.
3. Good racing minigame.
4. Unique quests.
5. Same non force classes on both sides
6. Freeroam mission based space combat.
7. Better and interesting skill trees. (Each tree should provide a unique gameplay)
8. Multiple leveling paths.
9. Customizable starships.
10. More iconic races.
11. UI that didn't suck
12. All flashpoints being about story.
13. Crafting that wasn't pointless
14. Companion kits.
15. More social content. Fishing, swimming, drinking, etc...

Originally posted by Drakxii

NO world sharding(aka No cor 1, cor 14, cor 129, etc..) and any four of the following:
 
1.  Non Cliche storylines.
2.  Immersive worlds.
3. Good racing minigame.
4. Unique quests.
5. Same non force classes on both sides
6. Freeroam mission based space combat.
7. Better and interesting skill trees. (Each tree should provide a unique gameplay)
8. Multiple leveling paths.
9. Customizable starships.
10. More iconic races.
11. UI that didn't suck
12. All flashpoints being about story.
13. Crafting that wasn't pointless
14. Companion kits.
15. More social content. Fishing, swimming, drinking, etc...

agree with everything but your NO 1 .. cliche storylines are the essense of star wars itself.

Originally posted by precious328

The only thing that would retain me would be meaningful World PvP. This tiny instanced / huttball bs is insulting. It really is.

I wouldn't midn the state of the game if the developers had Indy-like funding. But BioWare had the financial backing to make the ultimate game that appealed to everyone. They didn't do that. They made the most simple MMO I've ever experienced that literally has zero sustain.

Yeah, Bioware really needs to open up the financial books, and show how this game was funded.  Right now it sounds like 150 mill spent on shiny voices, 48 mill spent on marketing, and maybe 2 mill tops on the actual game.

As for what I would have liked:

1.)  Better grouping options leveling up.  Leveling up really is a solo, or maybe at best one additional person affair. 

2.)  Better polish.  When I say that I mean, to give just three examples:

2a.)  One quest for example, telling the truth gives you 50 dark side points, whereas lying and being an accessory to murder gives you 100 light side points.  Huh?

2b.)  In one of your class quests as an Inquisitor, there's an option for a double bladed lightsaber.  Only problem?  Sorcerers can't use a double bladed lightsaber.  Were they that lazy?

2c.)  You are to travel to the secret cult camp, so secret it has public transport!  They should've moved that to later levels, where people had speeders of their own and made it genuinenly secret.

2d.)  World boss:  If you can find him, you can have a good fight.  This was a great idea for a way to encourage grouping, develop a storyline, and pit you off against him with a great group.

3.  Worlds with more life.  Right now, there isn't a lot of immersion.  And, a lot of the caves/compounds on different worlds are basically the same art.  Make each world come alive with its own flavor.

4.)  A PvP system that encourages players to go to different worlds held by the adversary.

5.)  A more in-depth econ featuring different and more varied tiers of parts crafted, to encourage people doing econ together.