Would you play a MMO where everybody got the same amount of loot on raids, whether that be tokens or an item or two. The only rule here is everybody is equally rewarded.

Would that be a viable endgame you would want to be a part of? If no then why not?

This would of course be the death of raidpoint systems and elitism for starters.

nothing can kill elitism. NOTHING. and yea everything should be equal.

No. I don't think everyone should get a piece of loot. If this was the case, then everyone would be decked out in a single weekend.

The "elitism" excuse is getting old. If we just gave everyone what they wanted, the game would have that much less sustain and drive. I thought this argument would stop after the easy players finally got their SWTOR.

Look no matter if we have the same gear or not. I am just better. I am the elite. It's not a bad thing to be elite. Elite is a dirty word these days because so many people are completely inept. It's society's fault I'm afraid. You parents bought into the media brainswashing, and raised you to think you are deserving or even entitled to being treated as if you are Mommy's little special man by the entire world. Well guess what? Some of you people just aren't good. No amount of nerfs or gear will ever put you on par with the "Elites". Face it and go play Hello Kitty Online.

Originally posted by precious328

No. I don't think everyone should get a piece of loot. If this was the case, then everyone would be decked out in a single weekend.

 

The "elitism" excuse is getting old. If we just gave everyone what they wanted, the game would have that much less sustain and drive. I thought this argument would stop after the easy players finally got their SWTOR.

What about tokens.. 1 token pr raid then nobody would be decked out in one weekend. Another way would be to give everybody random loot. That would increase the incentive to redo the raid

Originally posted by Starpower

Originally posted by precious328

No. I don't think everyone should get a piece of loot. If this was the case, then everyone would be decked out in a single weekend.

 

The "elitism" excuse is getting old. If we just gave everyone what they wanted, the game would have that much less sustain and drive. I thought this argument would stop after the easy players finally got their SWTOR.

What about tokens.. 1 token pr raid then nobody would be decked out in one weekend. Another way would be to give everybody random loot. That would increase the incentive to redo the raid

Raids are dumb. Get rid of them. Problem solved.

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Look no matter if we have the same gear or not. I am just better. I am the elite. It's not a bad thing to be elite. Elite is a dirty word these days because so many people are completely inept. It's society's fault I'm afraid. You parents bought into the media brainswashing, and raised you to think you are deserving or even entitled to being treated as if you are Mommy's little special man by the entire world. Well guess what? Some of you people just aren't good. No amount of nerfs or gear will ever put you on par with the "Elites". Face it and go play Hello Kitty Online.

And some of us don't want to be elite via gear. Elite in MMOs=

Originally posted by Cuathon

Originally posted by Starpower

Originally posted by precious328

No. I don't think everyone should get a piece of loot. If this was the case, then everyone would be decked out in a single weekend.

 

The "elitism" excuse is getting old. If we just gave everyone what they wanted, the game would have that much less sustain and drive. I thought this argument would stop after the easy players finally got their SWTOR.

What about tokens.. 1 token pr raid then nobody would be decked out in one weekend. Another way would be to give everybody random loot. That would increase the incentive to redo the raid

Raids are dumb. Get rid of them. Problem solved.

I kinda agree with Cuathon here. Making a more compelling reason to do epic quests than the gear hamster wheel would solve the problem a lot better than putting a band-aid on bad game design.

Everyone agree with me today.

I say: "World what wrong? Where catch?"

Originally posted by precious328

No. I don't think everyone should get a piece of loot. If this was the case, then everyone would be decked out in a single weekend.

(I.E. See WoW)

Yes, however it won't work with the current paradigm of MMOs. The problem is... well, it's complicated. It starts with leveling. Currently, levels in MMOs are too important. You quite literally level out of content, effectively erecting a wall behind you as you go through the game. Eventually, you make it to the level cap and find that all that content you went through as you levelled is now insignificant... you overpower it so badly that going back to it has no challenge, there's no fun anymore. So you need to be entertained somehow while you're at cap... and that's where the treadmill starts. You start running the level cap dungeons to get gear to get into the first tier of raids. When you gear enough you move to the next tier and start the gear grind again. Once you gear enough there... well, rinse, repeat ad infinitum. Every time you progress even to the next tier that wall continues to get erected behind you... the early raids become trivilalized.

So... they need to keep you in challenging content as much as possible without boring you so greatly that you give up. Hence, RNG gear drops. Instead of everyone rightfully earning a reward for their accomplishments you find your reward becomes nothing more than a roll of the dice for a useful piece to even drop... then if it does there's yet another roll of the dice to hope you get that one piece. As a result, you run the same raids over and over, the treadmill lasts longer and longer, but thanks to tuning the RNG you get to move on before you give up completely.

This is why with the current paradigm having everyone get a piece they need won't work... they'll run out of pieces before the next release, and with the walls erected behind them there's nothing for them to do.

Now... let's change the paradigm the way GW2 is. Instead of walls being erected behind you as you level, if you decide to go back to lower level areas you'll find that you've been "side-kicked" down... basically reduced in power to the point that, even though you'll still have an easier time than someone "at level", you'll still find the lower level areas challenging. This includes the lower level dungeons, especially the "explorable mode" (think Hard Mode) dungeons. What this means is that every dungeon, and every path in the dungeon (each dungeon has at least three different explorable mode paths in them with different bosses to beat) will always remain a challenge no matter your level. Plus, there's not going to be the gear treadmill in GW2... you won't have tiers of gear that replace tiers of gear that replace tiers of gear at max level. You'll also be able to transfer the stats of any gear you like to any other piece, giving the look you like.

What's this all mean? Well, all dungeons are always significant, and all rewards from all dungeons will always be significant. You can be at level 80, run a level 30 dungeon, enjoy the challenge, collect your token (that everyone gets if succcessful) and get a piece of gear you like, and that gear will be perfectly viable for your character. In this paradigm, an emphatic YES to the OPs question... everyone should be rewarded for their efforts running these dungeons.

You just need the right style of game for that to work in.

It doesn't add any flavor to a mmo if everybody got the same loot.

however i have seen a couple concepts that can help people get something on every raid just for being there

like specific raid points redeemable for certain items.. maybe not as good as the raid drops but still good enough.

and raid points storable for more future purchase of more powerful items.

Loot treadmills don't need to be in every single MMO on the market. The only kind of raid I want to be involved in is attacking an enemy's city/town or defending the ramparts of my own humble castle of awesomeness.

i would play a game if everyone got whatever the same IF the focus of loot was toned down to the fact that player skill > loot

In Ultima i used to be able to massacre people with a store bought viking sword/shield against their Katana of Vanquishing and plate of invunerablilty ...this was all due to skill. (well and deadly poisoning helped lol)

Of course even back then only ONE godlike weapon usually dropped off 'raid' monsters (before people figured out cheap ways to kill Balrons/Ancient Wyrms) but then nowadays greed is everything and if everyone got something it might cut down on ninjaing/drama and leaving raids after you get what wanted.

Best loot should come from tradeskills and epic personal quests..i would be happy if raid bosses only dropped tradeskill items...i mean its a little lame that every giant evil monster carries a backpack full of exciting weapons and armor...by far better if you can bring an empty vial and fill it up with dead monsters blood or snag an eyeball to imbue a sword with when you get back to the local arcane wizard store or whatever.

there are just way too many magic weapons etc!!!!!!!  seriously HOW many magic swords do you as a hero really need to replace? lol imagine any fantasy film if the hero kept stopping to upgrade to a new sword because it made his pinky finger feel stronger... Magic items are WAY too trivial now

I like the idea, but I don't think it would work. Right now, MMO economics function like a free market democracy. If everyone gets the same in dungeons and raids this will shift toward communism. It could work, but I doubt it.

Originally posted by JohnnyBravol

I like the idea, but I don't think it would work. Right now, MMO economics function like a free market democracy. If everyone gets the same in dungeons and raids this will shift toward communism. It could work, but I doubt it.

It could work if gear wasn't such a big deal in a game.. think about a fps game for example.. mostly skill based and everybody can get access to the same weapons (gear) easily.

If a mmo was based on skill for the most part and gear had little effect except in clutch situations.. then it wouldn't matter if everybody got the same stuff.

What about instead of everyone getting a drop you don't allow better gear from drops just better looking gear. So, say I could purchase or craft gear that is every bit as good as what is dropped. If I want I get the prestige of showing off the dropped gear when I "earn it". Personally I'm tired of raids but grinders are gonna grind and giving them bragging rites is enough to keep them happy. Everyone is equally rewarded for the way they want to play and those who want to feel elite have a way of doing that too. 

Originally posted by precious328

No. I don't think everyone should get a piece of loot. If this was the case, then everyone would be decked out in a single weekend.

 

The "elitism" excuse is getting old. If we just gave everyone what they wanted, the game would have that much less sustain and drive. I thought this argument would stop after the easy players finally got their SWTOR.

Not if you do it right.

Let's use WOW as an example. There are 17 slots for equipment (that is if you wield two weapons, or a weapon and a shield). If you can only raid once a week (more or less the norm) and if you get 1 upgrade per week. Then it takes 17 weeks .. more than 4 month to fully equiped. This is NOT counting getting better pieces.

IMHO, that is too SLOW.

I feel everyone should be rewarded equally.  It's not fair for a player to dedicate all that time and effort to just never get lucky.

I also think that it should be a slower process.  MMOs now are zipping past so quickly that people are getting bored too easily.  Slow things down.  Getting a boss kill should be a fight, it should be an effort and should come with a great rewarding feeling of accomplishment, same with gaining any level in a game or achievement.