I had no plan to play SW:TOR, I knew it was not what I was looking for. My 9 years old tried it a little in betas and wanted it for christmas. He really like the Star Wars universe, more than myself as I don't really care about this franchise, he has LEGOs, games, knows more the movies lines than myself too. (Recently, made him watched Spaceballs hehe)

Still, after 2 weeks in the free months he asked me one thing that surprised me really: Dad, can I play something else?

It was his gift, I was ready to fork over a 3 months subs just for his own enjoyement, and yet he asked me to play something else. (Compared to a game like Rift, where I took a 6 month sub, he was sad that I did not renew) When I asked him, why he doesn't want to play it anymore? Simple answer: It's just not fun.

I did try it for myself but all my opinions on it have already been debated to death, no point in going there again. 

1. I would have liked a design that wasn't creatively bankrupt, with some SIGNIFICANT innovations.

2. I would have liked open world PvP in the vicinity of what they promised, instead of the blatant lie of what's actually there.

3. An engine that could handle more than 12 people in close proximity on a high-end rig.

4. Something other than 100% vertical gear progression as the entirety of the end-game experience.

5. All the voice-over work and presentation of the side-quests should have been dedicated to the class stories instead, and then the side-quests themselves would be presented like the INCREDIBLY bland combat-filler bullshit tasks that they really are.

6. A meaningful Space Combat implementation. Ideally, a free roaming space segment - complete with PvP combat. I can't think of a more obvious avenue of success than this - and any engine should be able to handle ~24-48 ships in proximity with a black starry background and a colorful nebula texture.

7. Responsive combat system.

8. A less complicated/mess gear customization system.

9. Worlds/planets with ambient sounds and a soul - rather than dreary linear open spaces.

10. Weather system and a day/night cycle.

11.  A proper "auction house" with up-to-date functionality.

12. Etc.

I enjoy it for what it is, a game. So I'm subbing for awhile, im level 28 now and finally got my speeder.

One of the biggest things for me was the huge amount of instancing, it completely killed my immersion.  I remember playing Wow on day 1 after the servers went live, and just walking around marvelling at how huge the world was.  I did not have that feeling at all in this game.  I also felt that with that, the "epic" mounts were just far too easy to obtain.  Epics in general in this game seem to drop from the sky.  I am still enjoying the game, and waiting for them to fix several nagging bugs (pvp dailies not counting anyone?).  I still can't see them maintaing a huge amount of subs in the coming months, but maybe that will change.  I too will be watching TSW closely.

Originally posted by DKLond

1. I would have liked a design that wasn't creatively bankrupt, with some SIGNIFICANT innovations.

2. I would have liked open world PvP in the vicinity of what they promised, instead of the blatant lie of what's actually there.

3. An engine that could handle more than 12 people in close proximity on a high-end rig.

4. Something other than 100% vertical gear progression as the entirety of the end-game experience.

5. All the voice-over work and presentation of the side-quests should have been dedicated to the class stories instead, and then the side-quests themselves would be presented like the INCREDIBLY bland combat-filler bullshit tasks that they really are.

6. A meaningful Space Combat implementation. Ideally, a free roaming space segment - complete with PvP combat. I can't think of a more obvious avenue of success than this - and any engine should be able to handle ~24-48 ships in proximity with a black starry background and a colorful nebula texture.

7. Responsive combat system.

8. A less complicated/mess gear customization system.

9. Worlds/planets with ambient sounds and a soul - rather than dreary linear open spaces.

10. Weather system and a day/night cycle.

11.  A proper "auction house" with up-to-date functionality.

This.  Sadly, this is yet another mediocre loot treadmill in an ocean of bad-to-mediocre loot treadmills.

I eagerly await the next shallow, vapid game that hits the market with the exact same endgame that suffers the exact same fate*.  It's almost like MMO developers are gluttons for failure.

*Expect this game to experience the exact same subscription loss as Rift in a similar to slightly elongated timeline.

The only thing that would retain me would be meaningful World PvP. This tiny instanced / huttball bs is insulting. It really is.

I wouldn't midn the state of the game if the developers had Indy-like funding. But BioWare had the financial backing to make the ultimate game that appealed to everyone. They didn't do that. They made the most simple MMO I've ever experienced that literally has zero sustain.

Originally posted by Charas

It's hard to single out just one thing or a couple.

Generally I just find the game boring both in PvE/PvP and not addictive or immersive. I'm still having a little fun farming WZs but I can't stomach more than an hour/day of that.

Had the game been a hybrid clone of WoW and SWG, instead of just WoW, I surely would've played longer.

I would have liked the game to have more of a sandbox/open world design instead of this streamlined, abusively instanced stuff we have now.

 

^^This.  Exactly how I feel and what I've been doing as well.  I log on on my 3rd alt, he's 26 try to quest a bit but it gets old considering I've seen 90% of the side quests already.  So I try to run FPs, can't find a group running the specific FP I need.  /sigh  So I try space battles...that's good for about 5 minutes and then boredom and loneliness set in.  Next, I'm left with WZs, which like you said, I can stand for about an hour before I log off.  

Game needs more free roam aspects, more sandbox elements as well as more incentives and addictive mechanics.  Seriously, what is the point of grinding 60 valor levels if you aren't rewarded for anything at each or every other level?  You aren't even rewarded until 60 and even then you have to rely on RNG to get said reward.  Pretty bad system if you ask me.  

Originally posted by DKLond

1. I would have liked a design that wasn't creatively bankrupt, with some SIGNIFICANT innovations.

2. I would have liked open world PvP in the vicinity of what they promised, instead of the blatant lie of what's actually there.

3. An engine that could handle more than 12 people in close proximity on a high-end rig.

4. Something other than 100% vertical gear progression as the entirety of the end-game experience.

5. All the voice-over work and presentation of the side-quests should have been dedicated to the class stories instead, and then the side-quests themselves would be presented like the INCREDIBLY bland combat-filler bullshit tasks that they really are.

6. A meaningful Space Combat implementation. Ideally, a free roaming space segment - complete with PvP combat. I can't think of a more obvious avenue of success than this - and any engine should be able to handle ~24-48 ships in proximity with a black starry background and a colorful nebula texture.

7. Responsive combat system.

8. A less complicated/mess gear customization system.

9. Worlds/planets with ambient sounds and a soul - rather than dreary linear open spaces.

10. Weather system and a day/night cycle.

11.  A proper "auction house" with up-to-date functionality.

12. Etc.

All of this, plus a more appealing art direction as I think almost everything their art department did is utterly uninspired, uncool, and unattractive.

Star Wars as an MMORPG is just not meant to be a straight up themepark.  Single player Star Wars games do that already... Star Wars fans want to live in this galaxy far far away.  A Themepark/Sandbox hybrid theory should have been worked at early design stages imho.

Honestly, I could go on about how this game is NOT the Star Wars MMORPG I was looking for...

Originally posted by DarkPony

Meaningful world pvp at every level and on every world.

That implies a few things:

Factions not being so separated by herding them through paralel areas on shared worlds but adding incentives to actually enter enemy territory other than just datacrons.

A small valor or commendation award for kills in your level range regardless of quests or location.

A more severe penalty to dying.

More incentives to be on those worlds at level 50, rather than in instances or picking your nose at the fleet.

Less lethal npc guards in towns and hubs and adding minor raiding incentives to them. (But mechanics should prevent towns and hubs from being "captured" for longer than a reasonably short time).

 

 

The problem is this wouldn't work for pve servers so it wil probably never happen. V_V

 

Yep, agree with the above.

PVP is the deal-breaker for me:  world pvp and end-game pvp and warzone pvp is simply not good enough.

After level capping a juggernaut and getting a few alts to the 15-20 range I just couldn't play anymore. Haven't played in about two weeks now.

Questing, levelling and story really are very good, but without some meaningful pvp then WOW is simply more fun pvp-wise.

Btw, I am not some hardcore Darkfall pvper or wow arena junkie; I just like some world pvp from time to time, decent and varied battlegrounds and a sense that I can do all this fairly casually. STWOR offers 99% huttball, a dull pvp grind and almost zero world pvp in any meaningful sense.

A  shame really.

I have 9 months worth of timecards, too lol. Will tinker with a few alts a couple of hours a week while those months run down but for now...

...been playing Civ 5, Skyrim and Saints Row the Third instead.

My next mmorpg will be a sandbox one or one with a clear pvp focus.

Regards

Melmoth

Originally posted by Voiidiin

I am curious what would have kept you (those who quit) paying for a sub with SWTOR. Personally i am sticking with this game until The Secret World is released, maybe longer if things shape up and the game gets better. 

There are plenty of issues with SWTOR but i feel they are minor to holding me in game.

If you guys could try and keep this civil and not make it into a flame fest, it would be appreciated, there is a way you can post and not come across as hyped up and angry.

I'm not quitting yet as there is plenty of content, and I like content,  but I can imagine what will lead to that if it doesn't change.

the Devs churning out content, voiceovers and cinematics at a rate we can consume is unrealistic. Having more open world, guild oriented, faction oriented, sandboxy, if you will, tools will retain me for the longhaul.

I may have been able to stick with it despite the huge laundry list of issues had the game been B2P. I enjoyed certain aspects but not enough of them are viable to warrant a monthly fee.

I'm sticking with it. It's not perfect, it needs some work but I am still enjoying it. My only real gripe is the space combat. If only they could bolt on something more freeform and expansive, well, maybe in time but it's not a big of a problem for me to unsub. Have had a week or so when I was really bored of it and was playing other things and generaly thought that was it. But have come back with avengence over the last few weeks.

open free roaming space flight/combat. even if combat was restricted to the outer edges of the galaxy i would be fine with that.

open worlds instead of this rat maze instances full of unscalable walls.

original classes, insted of copy/paste from WoW.

high rez textures.

meaningful pvp with a few worlds dedicated to group objectives and territory control.

Originally posted by DKLond

1. I would have liked a design that wasn't creatively bankrupt, with some SIGNIFICANT innovations.

2. I would have liked open world PvP in the vicinity of what they promised, instead of the blatant lie of what's actually there.

3. An engine that could handle more than 12 people in close proximity on a high-end rig.

4. Something other than 100% vertical gear progression as the entirety of the end-game experience.

5. All the voice-over work and presentation of the side-quests should have been dedicated to the class stories instead, and then the side-quests themselves would be presented like the INCREDIBLY bland combat-filler bullshit tasks that they really are.

6. A meaningful Space Combat implementation. Ideally, a free roaming space segment - complete with PvP combat. I can't think of a more obvious avenue of success than this - and any engine should be able to handle ~24-48 ships in proximity with a black starry background and a colorful nebula texture.

7. Responsive combat system.

8. A less complicated/mess gear customization system.

9. Worlds/planets with ambient sounds and a soul - rather than dreary linear open spaces.

10. Weather system and a day/night cycle.

11.  A proper "auction house" with up-to-date functionality.

12. Etc.

All the above along with....

The ingame graphics that were advertised on the offical site and every developer video that Bioware  claimed to be a UI bug until almost a month after launch when they told the truth about the game engine not being able to handle it.

The worst designed armor sets in any MMO to date.

The most boring combat encounters of any MMO to date.

As others have posted above, its not any one thing that makes SWTOR a failure, just so many little ones.

The boring and repetitive combat

uninteresting skill trees.

Lack of balance between classes and roles.

More sandbox features, there are so many planets and sights but you just grind through them to end up visiting 1 planet for world PvP and the fleet which is a carbon copy on each side. 

Any kind of sense of exploration, adventure, etc.  Since it is a story driven game the story basically ends and the end game is a RNG grind with little variety. 

Themeparks in general are not built for retention in my opinion. 

Pretty much everything thats been said already, i got a BH to 43 in my 3rd week, would log on try and do some quests, get bored, que for WZ's get bored, go to fleet try finding a group for a FP and get bored waiting..

More open worlds where both sides are together, in my time leveling to 43 i think the only rebs i bumped into was all of 3-4 and the first was not till late 30s and that to me is really really lame. The worlds just feel dead, you hardly see anyone even your own faction, the maps are to enclosed, it just didnt feel alive to me at all.

Really sad becasue it could have been such a good game, im nether a themepark or sandbox guy i like abit of both but for the life of me i can not understand why devs cant see whats sitting right infront of there face when it comes to some sandbox elements in a game, this is star WARS, there should have been more war - territory control or some sort can keep people playing your game for years if its setup right and the best thing is once its setup theres no need for more dev time.

Edit: Also having a game look like it is in the screenshots and vids would be nice, a game engine that runs ALOT better and skills that work when i hit the button when i need them lol.

I got invited to the closed beta, and played only a couple of weeks. Then quit. I didn't even want to play it when it was free! I figure, like all MMO's, that I'll revisit in a year or so, the game might have changed.

What stopped me was the complete lack of immersion. I like to "live in a virtual world", playing a role that I pick. I want an open, virtual, living world to play in. Doesn't have to be sandbox. The two specific problems that stopped me were:

1) the worlds appeared to be dead. No living creatures, no wind, no weather, no seasons, no NPC's living in the world. Dead.

2) crafting. Once, I got backed into a corner, and couldn't move more than a couple feet without getting attacked. What to do? I know! Send out my henchman to magically get past the enemies 3 feet away, to do some crafting! Complete and utter lack of realism or immersion.

SWTOR looks like a pretty good single-player game like the other BioWare titles, and I'll approach it that way. Not as an MMO to role-play in a cool world, but as a single-player story game, to play, finish, and discard.

Combat was boring and repetitive.

More smuggling and flying around in my freighter would have kept me more interested.