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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: Good Cop, Bad Cop – SWTOR

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211 posts found
  Whiskey_Sam

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/13/12
Posts: 266

Nemo me impune lacessit.

1/30/12 6:18:48 PM#121

That was more like good cop, middle of the road cop.


___________________________
Have flask; will travel.

  Lateris

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/05
Posts: 1797

~perspective~

1/30/12 6:35:11 PM#122

Tweak the ini file.

  jimmyjoint

Novice Member

Joined: 8/16/04
Posts: 1

1/30/12 6:48:26 PM#123

+1 for Suzie



also its not Star Wars. Star Wars is the first 3 movies (New Hope, Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi). Any other "SW" story created in different ages are just simple sci-fi with some stolen SW element

  onilis

Novice Member

Joined: 9/17/08
Posts: 15

1/30/12 6:58:27 PM#124

Why is it always when someone says they hate 1,2 and 3 that its always JarJar's fault? I always saw the way adult Anaken was portrayed as the thing that killed it for me. I want to just say it was Hayden Christensen's fault all together. 1 was an ok movie and had left the story with such potential to grow out to be as epic a series as 4,5 and 6.











 




 

  Dredphyre

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/10
Posts: 609

fanboi of truth

1/30/12 7:08:16 PM#125
Originally posted by Zekiah
Originally posted by Dredphyre

Originally posted by mrputts

I hear alot about the fact that it is not star wars... And they are right.




 




 



 

First of all, it is FAR from a 'fact'.  This game feels more like Star Wars than SWG ever did, and is on par with the excellent KOTOR series. So yeah, this IS Star Wars.

Hmm, so how does the space on rails or the stationary, in limbo "fighting" NPCs fit into Star Wars?

Ah yes, the rhetorical fallacy of cherry picking in attempt to prove a point.  Well, let's see. How does the best representation of Coruscant in a video game NOT fit into Star Wars? How does the the best recreation of Tatooine, Hoth, Ilum, Corellia ever seen in a video game NOT fit into Star Wars? How does great alien voice acting, with all the strange dialog, NOT make this Star Wars? How does the battles between Light Side Forces and Dark Side Forces NOT make this Star Wars? How about those choices we have for land vehicles...that CERTAINLY isn't Star Wars, is it? How about all those strange creatures we see, some recognizable from the movies, some new but fitting...NOT Star Wars either? Or how about BioWare's intrinsic, complete understanding of the Star Wars military-industrial paradigm, and its impact on the ridiculous scale of things that are built within the world? Nope, BW doesn't understand Star Wars at all (/sarcasm).

Compare this to SWG pathetic planet of Corellia, LOL. Coronet, the supposed capital of one of the most important planets in the SW universe, was what? ten building that you couldn't enter? What a joke.  How long did it take SOE to give us one land vehicle? LOL.  Now I enjoyed SWG...I had a Master Creature Handler decimated by the NGE.  But SWG never captured Star Wars Universe well at all.

There are many things to criticize about SWTOR.  That it doesn't capture Star Wars Universe isn't on that list. Period.

  Hrimnir

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1019

1/30/12 7:15:44 PM#126

I dont know if its been mentioned, but suzie was 100% wrong about her claim that bioware "Bioware never trumpeted SWTOR as the next great leap forward in MMO gaming in the history of mankind".


They did EXACTLY that in many of their promotional videos.  Unfortunately im at work so i can use youtube and link the video, but if neccessary i will come back and post it to prove just how wrong she was.


"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

  Moirae

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/19/06
Posts: 2553

1/30/12 7:58:31 PM#127

Suzie did NOT win this one. Sorry. I happen to love this game. And so do alot of other people. 

 

As for bugs.. it's an MMO, what did you expect? 

 

Bioware never said they were rewriting the genre. What they are offering is engrossing and interesting gameplay. For the first time ever, I actually care what goes on in the virtual world around me. And I love the choices during conversations (pay attention, not all choices are good, light, and neutral, some are just different levels of light or different levels of dark). 

 

No, they aren't offering everything yet. But no MMO ever does. THIS MMO has done something no other game ever did in the first month of release... give the players more content.

  Jairoe03

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/09
Posts: 715

1/30/12 8:26:12 PM#128


Originally posted by Moirae
Suzie did NOT win this one. Sorry. I happen to love this game. And so do alot of other people. 
 
As for bugs.. it's an MMO, what did you expect? 
 
Bioware never said they were rewriting the genre. What they are offering is engrossing and interesting gameplay. For the first time ever, I actually care what goes on in the virtual world around me. And I love the choices during conversations (pay attention, not all choices are good, light, and neutral, some are just different levels of light or different levels of dark). 
 
No, they aren't offering everything yet. But no MMO ever does. THIS MMO has done something no other game ever did in the first month of release... give the players more content.


I think when you got Good Cop's side kinda agreeing with Bad Cop's on certain aspects of the game, it doesn't really look good for Good Cop. Suzie almost won hands down but its in the game itself and it kind of shows based on the commentary that the game is purely of Star Wars fans. Its brand new now, but wait until Guild Wars 2, Secret World, Diablo 3 and other more innovative attempts at video games come about. This game will quickly subside into a mediocrity.


And really that's almost the risk you run by playing it too safe. While other people out there are taking risks, trying out new things, if you're going to stick too close to what has worked in the past (and a few years past, not even recently because there's many qualms in SWTOR I have that I had with WoW pre-Cataclysm class mechanic changes etc., but retained in this game i.e. buying each Skill with their Skill rank, grey items, near same craft system as any other game, same type of instanced PvP etc.). Even the combat system isn't changed from what, 7 years ago, simple presses of hotkeys etc. Frankly I'm tired of the large amount of moves you do acquire and don't use because you're specifically talent specced for Move A, B, C and D only. Couldn't even provide a different progression system outside of the talent trees that everyone loves to abuse aside from flipping it upside down and confusing me for 5 minutes.


Ultimately I agree with Suzie, voice acting is great at first, but after so much start to feel like a cheap trick. It does add more flavor then lets say quest text but like Adam even said, it doesn't make any leaps in any direction. I can see people putting a little more weight on voice acting in the future and working on their story (hire better writers and designers?) but this game has little much to offer that hasn't been done 5,6,7 years ago which IMO is rather pathetic especially for someone with a reputation as good as Bioware's.

  NameWasTaken

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/06
Posts: 139

1/30/12 8:34:27 PM#129

I wouldn't say I'm disappointed... more like out right BORED with the game! Yet another MMORPG click to target button masher. I'm off to play something a little more interesting, like Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.


  Drakxii

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/08
Posts: 599

1/30/12 8:47:26 PM#130

 



Originally posted by Moirae
No, they aren't offering everything yet. But no MMO ever does. THIS MMO has done something no other game ever did in the first month of release... give the players more content.

 


Which they had been working for nearly a year... so yeah...
 

Also Adam you list the number one thing wrong wrong with the MMO Genre.
"This is a genre based primarily on one thing: levelling up. You doll the experience up, give it a nice shade of lipstick, add in a sparkler or two to take the attention of slightly "simpler" people, but it is still the same old experience: create a character, skill to the max level, have a crisis about what you are doing with your life, and repeat."

Not until the wave of crappy WoW clones did I ever get the feeling that an MMO was all about leveling up to max. In EQ, SWG, and yes even WoW I would go places not because I had to or that there was a quest there but because I wanted to see what was there, or do something outside of questing and grinding. But not ONCE in SWTOR did I ever do that, because there wasn't anything really interesting to find.

I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.

  Kalmarth

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 455

1/30/12 9:31:03 PM#131

So much hate towards a game, I guess alot of people were really hoping this was going to be the most amazing thing on Earth and now feel burnt.

I'm loving playing ToR, moving slowly through the story, playing with Friends and my wife, lots and lots of fun.

Is it any of the buzz words, Innovative, mold breaking, WoW killer, probably not, is it fun, yep.

Haters got to hate.

I'm looking forward to seeing the game progress and become something amazing, like WoW did and EQ and many many other games, sure it took time but I still hear people tell storys of EQ the eairly days or Vanilla WoW.

 

  Rampage9799

Novice Member

Joined: 8/24/07
Posts: 34

1/30/12 10:00:41 PM#132

Suzie all games arent for everyone , and this one seems like its not your "cup of tea". Its ok you dont have to like it.

Also as far as Companion AI goes , you have the ability to control your "pet" rather well. I use M4 with my DPS Commando and i almost never have problems.

And on the voice over quests they give you an option to spacebar thru the whole thing so really whats there to complain about in that situation?

I just got to 41 and havent played any illium pvp battles but i looking foward to them.

 

this game is fun and still has the "new car smell" to it. So far im really impressed and ive played almost every big MMO that has come out since 98' (including a few korean ones).

  fiontar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3679

1/30/12 10:04:39 PM#133

If you read the pro-TOR POV as being sarcastic, which is a very, very easy shift to make, then the entire peice is brilliant. Economics may have forced many gaming sites to slap high ratings numbers on this mediocre game, but when you actually ready what is said, it's easy to see that many of the writers actually understand the reality of TOR.


The key is in the very first point/counterpoint about morality of character actions in an MMO. Yeah, Bioware gives us their morality choices as part of a non-branching story, with dark side or light side points as a reward for following the proper script. However, my 100% light side Jedi is still a Mass Murderer, with most quests offering no alternative path to "slaughter 10 thugs, or murder 12 Empirial sympathizers, just because".


Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

  User Deleted
1/30/12 10:13:52 PM#134

For years on this very site. Editors and visitors alike, expressed a desire for innovation in the MMO.

 

They finally get innovation, and what do they do.... they whine and complain that its not just like every other MMO ever done.

 

Why do the people that dislike this game insist on holding on to this vitriolic, foaming at the mouth rage, like a rabid pit bull?

 

Move on, get a life. Leave those of us that enjoy SWTOR alone.

 

  Souldrainer

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/06
Posts: 1878

1/30/12 10:43:14 PM#135

I did not find this article enlightenting or insightful, but at least it's well written.  Then again, I can't expect to be enlightened by someone who thinks the RMT AH in Diablo 3 will even be usable by someone who isn't a gold farmer.


Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

1/30/12 10:48:52 PM#136
Originally posted by Kalmarth

So much hate towards a game, I guess alot of people were really hoping this was going to be the most amazing thing on Earth and now feel burnt.

It's true. A lot of people, myself included, have been really looking forward to not only a good Star Wars MMO but also a BioWare MMO. BioWare + Star Wars has been a winning formula in the past, right? Knights of the Old Republic is a great game, even by today's standards.

Personally, I feel let down. The game, with the exception of voice overs, is too generic, too uninspiring and way too linear. I kid you not, SWTOR made me miss WoW and it actually led me to resubscribe. Something I thought that I would never do.

- No cool races. We basically have different color humans.

- Completely static worlds.I hate to bring up WoW but the phasing that it uses goes a long way to visually present you with quest progression. It's not even that. There are no day/night cycles. The mobs in SWTOR just kind of hang out in one spot waiting for you to slaughter them. The animals just stand there and never interact with one another. Going back to my WoW example, I was in Hyjal the other day doing one of those Firelands Invaision dailies and I noticed that as I was fighting a mob, it was being hit with rocks off the screen. So I pan around, and it's a little squirrel throwing stuff at the mob I was fighting. I have played WoW on and off since it was launched and I thought that I saw and heard it all, when it comes to that game, but when I saw that little squirrel helping me fight off one of the invaders, I thought to myself "Wow, that is fucking cool!"

- The absolute reliance on companions, who are nothing more than glorified pets that also craft for you, makes me feel weak. My highest character in SWTOR is a level 43 sith sorcerer. He has a "Lord" title. He is suppose to be one of the strongest sith in the empire... and he gets his butt handed to him by some random space pirate boss if Khem Val in not there to get punched in the face.

- PvP is a complete clusterfuck. There is also no meaningful world PvP, even on PvP servers. Farming for PvP gear is a complete nightmare.

- Choice is nothing but an illusion. Yes, you have about 3 different ways to reply to an NPC but they all lead to the same outcome, unless you refuse the quest. Going back to that "mass murderer" point from the article, 99% of the time, you cannot resolve the mission peacefully. If the NPC tells you that you have to save the moisture farm from the sand people, you can't go reason with them. No matter what you choose you will still have to kill them. The only thing that you really have a choice in is what alignment gear you can get.

- The game is filled with "kill x" quests. I remember a developer interview a while ago, before the game launched claiming that there are almost no "kill x" quests. The very first thing you do is a "kill x" quest when you start the game! And don't even get me started on the bonus objectives. Stage 1: kill 25 Black Sun thugs. Stage 2: kill 40 Black Sun thugs. Stage 3: click on 6 glowies. Stage 4: kill the Black Sun thug boss

- Traveling between planets is an absolute nightmare! Run to the spaceport. Run to the elvator. Click on the button. Load into the hangar. Run to your ship. Click on the door. Load into your ship. Run to the navigation console. Listen to that stupid droid. Pick your destination. Run back to the door. Listen to that stupid droid. Click on the door. Load into the hangar. Run to the elevator. Click on the button. Load into the spaceport. Run outside.

- The UI is a travesty. I'm not even going to say anything about addons but not only can you not move it around and resize it, you can't even have more than 2 windows open at the same time.

I'm not even bringing up bugs, I expect an MMO to be buggy at release but there are a lot of design issues that make me wonder if the people working on the game actually bothered to check out other MMOs. I mean, BioWare pretty much declared their love for WoW and stated that their mission was to make SWTOR similar. But in all of their years of development, how hard was it to create a WoW account, play the game and see what makes WoW a good MMO?

Sorry for the rant but this game really, really, really disappointed me.

  StoneRoses2

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/26/12
Posts: 21

1/30/12 10:57:15 PM#137
Originally posted by Keogh

For years on this very site. Editors and visitors alike, expressed a desire for innovation in the MMO.

 

They finally get innovation, and what do they do.... they whine and complain that its not just like every other MMO ever done.

 

Why do the people that dislike this game insist on holding on to this vitriolic, foaming at the mouth rage, like a rabid pit bull?

 

Move on, get a life. Leave those of us that enjoy SWTOR alone.

 

Perfect perfect! Thank you!

Keep in mind even the old mmos lost their flare, but people will not admit that that. They want to keep you thinking that it was there all along. Why every fucking MMO now is like dragging around a dead fucking horse waling at it because it's not like AO, UO, EQ, or DAOC.

I can't wait to see the responses for GW2, TSW, Archage, Tera. It will never be enough or the end.

  osc8r

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/30/06
Posts: 701

1/30/12 11:01:02 PM#138



Originally posted by Keogh



For years on this very site. Editors and visitors alike, expressed a desire for innovation in the MMO.


They finally get innovation, and what do they do.... they whine and complain that its not just like every other MMO ever done.


Move on, get a life. Leave those of us that enjoy SWTOR alone.



Innovation?? Please tell me where it's at in SWTOR. Voice overs aren't innovation, as they have already been done before. And as the editor pointed out, apart from the main story quest, the voiceovers bring nothing new and fail to hide the boring fedex and kill quests.


Everything else is a copy and paste from every other MMO. Linear progression, static NPC's, kill quests, stale instanced pvp, limited skill trees, class pidgeon holing, lifeless endgame consisting gear gear/dungeon grinding blah blah blah.


Sp please to tell me where all this innovation is, as I seem to haved missed it.



 

  StoneRoses2

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/26/12
Posts: 21

1/30/12 11:06:34 PM#139
Originally posted by osc8r

Originally posted by Keogh

For years on this very site. Editors and visitors alike, expressed a desire for innovation in the MMO.


They finally get innovation, and what do they do.... they whine and complain that its not just like every other MMO ever done.


Move on, get a life. Leave those of us that enjoy SWTOR alone.


Innovation? lol. Please tell me where it's at in SWTOR. Voice overs aren't innovation, as they have already been done before.


Everything else is a copy and paste from every other MMO. Static NPC's, kill quests, limited skill trees, instanced PVP grinds, blah blah blah.


Feel free to tell me where all this innovation is, as I seem to haved missed it.


 

Innovation is making better or more effective product!

Taking ideas from other MMOs Copying & Paste or recycling is nothing new, Industry Standards. Perfect example look at the Automotive Industry.

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

1/30/12 11:42:12 PM#140
Originally posted by StoneRoses
Originally posted by osc8r

Originally posted by Keogh

For years on this very site. Editors and visitors alike, expressed a desire for innovation in the MMO.


They finally get innovation, and what do they do.... they whine and complain that its not just like every other MMO ever done.


Move on, get a life. Leave those of us that enjoy SWTOR alone.


Innovation? lol. Please tell me where it's at in SWTOR. Voice overs aren't innovation, as they have already been done before.


Everything else is a copy and paste from every other MMO. Static NPC's, kill quests, limited skill trees, instanced PVP grinds, blah blah blah.


Feel free to tell me where all this innovation is, as I seem to haved missed it.


 

Innovation is making better or more effective product!

Taking ideas from other MMOs Copying & Paste or recycling is nothing new, Industry Standards. Perfect example look at the Automotive Industry.

SWTOR is neither a better nor a more effective product!

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