Originally posted by Yamota

And lastly, on the "murder" bit... can't possibly agree more.  I'd LOVE to see an interesting MMO come out that isn't just about killing for XP and loot.  To use BW's usual "go-to" philosophy regarding their content:

The MOVIES weren't JUST about going and killing stuff, and fights didn't break out EVERYWHERE the characters went.  How often to Han and Chewie run into a building blasting everything in sight to go kill/spare some head honcho?  Hell, Jabba was a total dick and they STILL tried to resolve things peacefully...

I would love too, to have an MMORPG where diplomacy and cunning can be used instead of violence. That would put a whole new spin to leveling if you could manage to finish a quest by not resorting to violence but rather use your head.

Granted it was a single player game, but...

I remember you could play the first Fallout, and finish all the quests, with hardly a shot being fired.  I thought that was pretty cool.  I remember somebody calling it the "Dr. Who" path.  

The trick, however, is figuring out what the "clever" part would be.  It couldn't just be some simple thing that you could post on the interwebz so that everybody could just read it, click-click-click, and be done.

Originally posted by SBFord

 

OK before I tell you what I would score it as now, I want to remind you that this is MY score only, my PERSONAL score, not the score for MMORPG.com. Obviously, a lot of my co-workers will disagree with me which is cool and what makes working here so much fun.

OK.

I would give SWTOR a 6.5 as it stands today for many of the reasons I mentioned above. I say that with the caveat that that score will undoubtedly rise as the game matures and as more patches are applied. SWTOR has a boatload of potential. I hope that potential can be realized.

I'd like to sincerely thank you for actually answering the question.  You have no idea how often the writers on this site come off as TOR-sponsored drones rather than actual human beings sharing their opinions and/or reviews.

Originally posted by VoIgore

Originally posted by SBFord

I would give SWTOR a 6.5 as it stands today for many of the reasons I mentioned above.

See, now we talk!

Too bad that these scorings of a blockbuster title never make it into the major articles onto the mainpage. Got my drift?

Perhaps mmorpg.com should also have down grading system,not that they would ever down grade swtor.

This system could be available to the members of this site.

Originally posted by lalartu

both of you guys keep saying that it's Star Wars, but in reality, it doesn't feel like Star Wars at all.

It has light sabers and the special abilities are referred to as "force", but that's where it ends.

None of the loveable Star Wars characters/features/humour is in this title. 

It's an empty shell with light sabers and very strict instructions on how it's meant to be played. Veer off the course and get punished by the ever-present banhammer.

We should just refer to this as Light Sabers Online instead as I think this title has definitely put all those other great Star Wars games to shame

 

I just had to highlist that part of your post because evidentally you have no clue what you're talking about. This is Star Wars: The OLD Republic. It is set a couple thousand years before the most noteable characters even existed.

SW:TOR is a great game and I disagree with everything Suzie said.

I don't get the whole "mass murderer" argument.

You're just as much of a murderer in this game as you are in any other MMO. Just because an NPC talks to you about killing those sand people as opposed to presenting you with some quest text doesn't change the fact that you still have to kill those sand people.

It's actually even worse in this game if you think about it. During beta, I played a jedi knight to about level 35 or so. On Tatooine, I must have killed hundreds of sand people. If Anakin Skywalker began his path to the dark side by killing those dozen or so sand people, then by all rights, my jedi knight should have been a sith lord by then. Hell, I've killed so many Black Sun thugs, space pirates and various other NPCs and animals that I would be tried for war crimes in any civilized country. Yet in this game, I am still able to not turn to the dark side.

Edit: Oh and do we really need yet another SWTOR article?

Originally posted by khartman2005

None of the loveable Star Wars characters/features/humour is in this title. 

 

I just had to highlist that part of your post because evidentally you have no clue what you're talking about. This is Star Wars: The OLD Republic. It is set a couple thousand years before the most noteable characters even existed.

SW:TOR is a great game and I disagree with everything Suzie said.

Actually it's not set "a couple of thousand" but 3-4 thousands years before.  This however doesn't change the fact that there are "None of the loveable Star Wars characters/features/humour is in this title. "   

The comment refers to the fact that BioWare chose to set the game in a time when none of the star wars characters could be present.  Furthermore, BioWare chose not to use any of the iconic Star Wars races despite the fact that they ARE actually present.  You cannot play a Wookie, Trandoshan, Jawa, Gamorrean, Hutt, Rodian, Ewok or even (the much hated) Gungan.  I believe that for the person quoted, the persons and races of star wars are such an integral part of the star wars experience that their lack makes for a disappointing game in itself.

To further complicate matters, instead of giving the game a unique setting, BioWare has instead taken a little known setting and has tried to COPY the setting of the films.  The republic and empire - right down to the logos - in TOR have been made to match the rebellion and empire of the stars wars films virtually identically.  Even the spaceships look similar with imperial ships looking like star destroyers and tie-fighters and republic vessels looking like X-Wings and Y-Wings.  Additionally, BioWare has basically cloned the personalities of the characters from the Star Wars films, right down to the outfits they wear.  

It seems like total waste to be playing a clone of Han Solo or a clone of Luke Skywalker that is trying to do the same things to save a clone of the Rebellion from the clone of the Empire led by the clone of the Empreror.

Instead of wasting all the effort creating clones, they could have just given us the option of playing Han Solo in the current timeline.   At least we know and like Han Solo rather than playing a random character who looks and acts exactly like Han Solo while we think "boy, this character is trying really hard to be Han Solo!".

Anyhow.. at least that's how i interpreted the part you quoted. 

Originally posted by precious328

The voice work was an innovative touch to gaming. However, SWTOR isn't a MMORPG. It's a gigantic KoTOR Co'op game that you have to pay monthly for. Bottom line.

 

Comments like this baffle me. How is SWTOR any different from WoW or LotRO in MMO terms? You group up occasionally in all of these games but most of the content is completed solo. I've actually done far more grouping with other players in SWTOR than I ever did in WoW, LotRO, STO, CoX, or Rift -- but then, these are probably not MMORPGs either, right?

Bioware never said they was going to make the next greatest thing since chocoloate but everyone else did including the media.

Originally posted by tmr819

Originally posted by precious328

The voice work was an innovative touch to gaming. However, SWTOR isn't a MMORPG. It's a gigantic KoTOR Co'op game that you have to pay monthly for. Bottom line.

 

Comments like this baffle me. How is SWTOR any different from WoW or LotRO in MMO terms? You group up occasionally in all of these games but most of the content is completed solo. I've actually done far more grouping with other players in SWTOR than I ever did in WoW, LotRO, STO, CoX, or Rift -- but then, these are probably not MMORPGs either, right?

Lotro is now soloable due to the buff they give you now, WoW is soloable now but wasnt in vanilla. never played the others you mentioned so cannot comment, SWtor is just to easy, soloable from the start no encouragement to group up except for Flashpoints and Heroics.  I play an MMO to adventure with like wise players, if I wanted to play solo i'd just stick with Skyrim, NWN etc.  I had all intentions of sticking with SWtoR, but unfortunately its just lacking, guilds are pointless, content is limited, exploration is limited, to much downtime and always hitting the EU players, need i go on.  I'd like to see the old school where MMO's made you work for what you wanted, where I felt rewarded for my efforts, where an MMO was an MMO and required team effort to get through content. none of this soloing crap.

Few comments:

1 Overall - see the sticky in the general SWTOR forums here where several features that developers said would be in game are not...

2. big ones for me were

a. companions can never leave u - there was a time in early beta when companions would behave more like those in Mass Effect / Dragon Age etc, where some would leave you if they disagreed with your choices. ( NOTE - this was taken out of the game )

b. companion leveling up - there was a feature where you could level your companions yourself. ( this was also removed )

c. special "features" of light side / dark side choices - there were abilities that you would get given your drift toward the dark side / not. ( also removed )

In addition to that, the ohh so linear game-play to me was a great step back in MMOs, what did I hope for ? WoW in spaace with lightsabres... instead we got a stripped down linear WoW and stripped down "unique features" to TOR.

Hopefully we can see some of this ressurrected in future updates...

Originally posted by moosecatlol

Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by SBFord

Originally posted by moosecatlol



The only thing that companions do that is innovative is take the work out of crafting, next up, companions that play the game for you.

LOL! Best. Comment. Ever.

:)

 

 

That guy almost sounds like he enjoys sitting in front of a forge, staring at a percentage bar going from 0% to 100% for 27 times in a row before he can continue playing the game. There are some of us who enjoys playing the game for the whole time logged in, that's why this is the first mmorpg where I actually keep my crafting skills up to date.

 

And yes the companions are a lot of fun since they dont feel like just another DOT pet like in most other mmorpgs!

 

What comes to VO's and story, I love them, but I really see only 2 unique stories in this game. One for your chosen class per faction, having to run all the same other leveling content with no choise over the path you want to take at any time kinda narrows the uniqueness to only one time per faction, even if there is 4 unique main stories on both sides. This game should've had 2 different paths per planet and a couple of more off-planet ways to level besides PvP and space minigame.

 

Overall a great and a fun game, never had this much fun playing a mmorpg with friends before, lolling at eachothers dialog choises, doing HC's, flashpoints, zerging normal quests, something that is usually penalized in other games (grouping) with less XP and rewards (in TOR you get actually more) + it's fun to do dialog together, something that is missing completely in other mmorpgs.

That's something that I don't understand about games in general is where ever there is crafting, there is a crafting cast bar. Is there any purpose to this?

On the other hand, any skill that was required to gather materials in a competitive enviorment is lost on the concept of having your "Companions" doing it for you. Gathering can be one of the most cut-throat experiences out there, even more so than pvp in some cases.

Also having gathering nodes helps stimulate the economy in a way, because there is only so much of a certain gathering node that can spawn in a world. Where as having everyone's "Companions" off gathering materials makes those materials lose value. From what I understand, the only valuable crafting materials comes from raiding, and a long cooldown from an npc request.

My question is: What is it that crafters really want out of a games crafting? A rewarding crafting system like SWG's?

 

Also from what I've been reading on the SWTOR forums, players often don't find a solid use for crafted items in a raid enviornment, any truth to this?

I guess at this point I'm starting to derail the thread into a topic about crafting, I should go make breakfast or something.

 

Are you talking about the gathering missions? They take so long at higher levels and costs so much that I dont see a problem here. It's more just for raising the skill, you cant really mass produce anything unless you go and gather stuff your self. I'm not saying it's the most interesting system, it's quite "light" crafting, but talking about it as what it is, I think this companion stuff is the best approach. For me at least, I dont look for HC complex crafting.

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by SBFord

Originally posted by moosecatlol



The only thing that companions do that is innovative is take the work out of crafting, next up, companions that play the game for you.

LOL! Best. Comment. Ever.

:)

 

 

That guy almost sounds like he enjoys sitting in front of a forge, staring at a percentage bar going from 0% to 100% for 27 times in a row before he can continue playing the game. There are some of us who enjoys playing the game for the whole time logged in, that's why this is the first mmorpg where I actually keep my crafting skills up to date.

...

Because all MMO crafting is clicking "craft" and waiting for the progress bar.

Apparently you've never played EQ2, Vanguard, SWG, or UO.

There use to be a time when crafting actually meant something, and took dedication and skill to do well at, and of course the reward was actually creating useful things. These days crafting is a side-show mechanic that everyone and their mother is expected to pick up and muddle their way through with little effort.

But we are not talking about EQ2, Vanguard, SWG or UO. We are talking about TOR and the crafting it has, and IMO the companion approach works very well within that system.

City of Heroes minus incredible variety during character creation plus light sabers. Worst. Game. Ever. The end.

I like the game, but they need to reign in the RNG for pvp bags and reverse engineering. Its starting to become a deal breaker for me.

"The fact that it’s Star Wars shouldn’t automatically determine SWTOR’s success. Yes, the Star Wars movie series is awesome, at least through Return of the Jedi. But the series lost a lot of appeal when they released those other three. I won’t even deign to name them. All I really need to say is Jar Jar Binks and you get the point."



Game. Set. Match.

Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by SBFord

Originally posted by moosecatlol



The only thing that companions do that is innovative is take the work out of crafting, next up, companions that play the game for you.

LOL! Best. Comment. Ever.

:)

 

 

That guy almost sounds like he enjoys sitting in front of a forge, staring at a percentage bar going from 0% to 100% for 27 times in a row before he can continue playing the game. There are some of us who enjoys playing the game for the whole time logged in, that's why this is the first mmorpg where I actually keep my crafting skills up to date.

...

Because all MMO crafting is clicking "craft" and waiting for the progress bar.

Apparently you've never played EQ2, Vanguard, SWG, or UO.

There use to be a time when crafting actually meant something, and took dedication and skill to do well at, and of course the reward was actually creating useful things. These days crafting is a side-show mechanic that everyone and their mother is expected to pick up and muddle their way through with little effort.

 

But we are not talking about EQ2, Vanguard, SWG or UO. We are talking about TOR and the crafting it has, and IMO the companion approach works very well within that system.

That may be true but I still prefer crafting that takes some degree of skill instead of click and wait.

I hear alot about the fact that it is not star wars... And they are right. But it is better than starwars. This is shit that good ol' George would have never thought of.

To be honest Star wars is so fucking worn out it is a refreshing change. And I would almost go as far as to call The star wars films non-canon. This is a much better use of the universe than the movies ever had been.

Other than Main questlines (which should always be V/O in ANY game) the bulk of the V/O content is good for basically ONE go-around per side, possibly 2. After that its nothing more than an annoyance you have to spacebar through.

Voiceovers are an albatross which will kill this game. That and the awful awful awful endgame.

Originally posted by arieste

Originally posted by khartman2005

None of the loveable Star Wars characters/features/humour is in this title. 

 

I just had to highlist that part of your post because evidentally you have no clue what you're talking about. This is Star Wars: The OLD Republic. It is set a couple thousand years before the most noteable characters even existed.

SW:TOR is a great game and I disagree with everything Suzie said.

Actually it's not set "a couple of thousand" but 3-4 thousands years before.  This however doesn't change the fact that there are "None of the loveable Star Wars characters/features/humour is in this title. "   

 

The comment refers to the fact that BioWare chose to set the game in a time when none of the star wars characters could be present.  Furthermore, BioWare chose not to use any of the iconic Star Wars races despite the fact that they ARE actually present.  You cannot play a Wookie, Trandoshan, Jawa, Gamorrean, Hutt, Rodian, Ewok or even (the much hated) Gungan.  I believe that for the person quoted, the persons and races of star wars are such an integral part of the star wars experience that their lack makes for a disappointing game in itself.

 

To further complicate matters, instead of giving the game a unique setting, BioWare has instead taken a little known setting and has tried to COPY the setting of the films.  The republic and empire - right down to the logos - in TOR have been made to match the rebellion and empire of the stars wars films virtually identically.  Even the spaceships look similar with imperial ships looking like star destroyers and tie-fighters and republic vessels looking like X-Wings and Y-Wings.  Additionally, BioWare has basically cloned the personalities of the characters from the Star Wars films, right down to the outfits they wear.  

 

It seems like total waste to be playing a clone of Han Solo or a clone of Luke Skywalker that is trying to do the same things to save a clone of the Rebellion from the clone of the Empire led by the clone of the Empreror.

 

Instead of wasting all the effort creating clones, they could have just given us the option of playing Han Solo in the current timeline.   At least we know and like Han Solo rather than playing a random character who looks and acts exactly like Han Solo while we think "boy, this character is trying really hard to be Han Solo!".

 

Anyhow.. at least that's how i interpreted the part you quoted. 

 

 

 

I agree with the majority of this, especially the part in red. If they had made more playable races, like Kel Dor, or Mon Calamari, it would've been cool. Their lack of playable races disturbs me. I don't think making Wookies a playable race is a good idea though, there would be a lot of Troopers without arms. It does suck that they clone a lot of the iconic Star Wars characters, especially in the Trailers..and it gets old fast. Hopefully this game will get better in time. It is a good game..it just needs a bit of tweaking.

May the pizza be with you, Always.

Just pointing out nonsense when I see it. Compaing 1-10 Rating to Letter Grades does not get very far. As an F is like 60% or less, making 1-6 Failures and not given, and then 70-75% should be given to most games. And 10 = A, 9 = B  = Failure. 10s are flawless, not happening.

For me this game feels quite Star Wars enough :) and this is coming from someone who played two pen and paper games, more than one SWCG, the videogames from floppy drives on up, have all those guides to planets/alien species/droids etc books. Star Wars dictionary, additional Star Wars Fiction, action figures from first makes on up, Legos, etc...

For some reason, I feel like most "this is not Star Wars enough" folks don't have a very strong Star Wars grasp. You learn a good deal from reading all of the pen and paper sourcebooks alone :) Character creation obviously sucks though, and does not contribute to the Star Wars feel.