Originally posted by Valua

FPS style drop in/drop out PvP with creatable server type Most MMO's? World of Warcraft.

Fully realized alternative underwater combat. Again, just because it's underwater doesn't mean it's innovative, druid cat form, in the underwater wow area, can't remember what it's called. 

Wrong on both counts, btw

God's gift to mmos ofcourse not. A great game you bet.

Originally posted by Master10K

I find it quite sad how often that people like the OP feel the need, the compulsion, to come on the GW2 forums and berate the game and its community because some other games failed them in some way. People who follow GW2 don't refer to it as the "2nd Coming" only you do, you who feels so threathened by the game's existence that you have to make a thread like this. It will be those people that will try their hardest to bash the game upon release, which is why once the game is released I won't even waste my time on these forums for a while. Even if the game lives up to the majority of people expectations, it will be people like the OP and fans of other games that will openly bash GW2, even when there won't be much to bash it for.

I find it funny that many of the GW2 defenders here, that decry anyone who proposes GW2 might not bad a s good as advertised, are the same names I've seen bashing TOR far before it was released. Doing the same things they now are arguing against. Cycle of my game vs yours-which is kind of weird. Never saw the need to even comment on a game i dislike or have no plans to play. With that said, I do think GW2 will offer a very different, maybe even unique gaming experience and commend them for trying something far different than the latest games have. Now they have to survive the flamewar that moves from the TOR threads to the GW2 threads-though fought by mostly the same people. Hopefully, some good info about the game will trickle through it to help people decide if the want to play.

Originally posted by Valua

Innovation is not invention.

Creating the radio is an invention.  Creating a car is an invention.  Putting a radio in a car for the first time is an innovation.

So tired of people quibbling about what constitutes innovation or thinking that something has to be 100% new in order to count.  Take the downed state from Borderlands, tweak it and put it in an MMO for the first time, that's an innovation.

Dynamic events have never been done before.  They're an evolution on PQs from WAR, but they innovate by making them the focus of the open world content instead of a sideshow, making them chain in different directions on success/failure, making them chain in space to new areas, making them trigger off a variety of different things, and being fully cooperative.  They're a truly amazing concept for MMOs.

Honestly, I don't even think this game is overhyped at all.  To me, if GW2 was just dynamic events, B2P, a "massive" amount of content (said to be bigger than all of GW1 combined, including expansions) and waiting until its totally finished before releasing it, that right there is a 10.  Everything else (and there's a lot) is just icing on the cake.

Dictionary definition - something new or different introduced

 

Nothing new has been introduced with Guild Wars 2.

So having no  healing class and by thus eliminating the holy trinity that has been forever plaguing the mmorps world is not new?

i beg to differ.

treating underwater combat as diffreent school and thus giving each player and mobs different skill-set for ground and water is not new? correct me if i am wrong, but i am not aware of any mmorpg or game that treated underwater combat as its "own" thing.  i have  seen underwater skills in some games (perfect world comes to mind, also by the way they had a weekly night for a pvp/pve area underwater. and it was so much fun...)
 
 anyhow again i beg to differ.

and since gw1 is not an mmorpg, we can take some points from it also can we?

so no 15%$ sub, not an f2p mmorpg.

a "buy to play mmorpg" , that is also not new in your opinion?

you seem to be wanting more bashing even though you say either wise.

and from the line about comparing gw2 and other mmoorps. i would like to assume that you played swtor and got burned, or your a fanboy.

either way, you seem to be "forgetting" things that no mmorpg has done before.

cheers.

more.... sigh

lets talk pvp, as in pv was designed from before day one as a DIFFERENT part of the game.

and in not talking about "lets have some areans that people blood-bath each other so we can say we have pvp"

im talking about creating a FULL pvp toon that will never set foot in pve lands, and from day one you can start pvp and have fun without having to get to level 80 because you start fully maxed?

again. from day start to pvp with a pvp toon that forever will be placed on the pvp realm.if i am not mistaken that has also not been done before.

do you even understand how much power is that to pvp people that just want to pvp and never be bothered with the pve scene.?

just look at gw pvp still going after all these years... now think that with gw2.
 

Originally posted by BadSpock

I predict GW2 will have a ton of box sales and then subs will fall of the face of the Earth after the first free month.

Oh wait...

 

There will be server status threads and population counts and all the BS we see with WoW/TOR on a daily basis.

In the end there will be plenty of people on these very forums who bash the game and say it fails or failed and troll every thread on the topic like they currently do in all the TOR threads. You know who you are!

Somehow believing that they have the right and are some how more right in their opinon than everyone else is and by GOD will they make sure we know their opinion... again and again and again and again...

In the end there will be fanbois who defend the game like their mother's name that all seem to disappear from the forums after the game is released because they either A) love the game and don't post anymore B) ashamed they fell for it again

In the end...

Nothing will change, life will go on, some people will have a new game they'll be playing and loving, others will buy and quit playing after a month/week, and MMORPG.com will continue on, with it's forum community hyping the NEXT big thing and bashing everything else.

 

How does a B2P title "fail"?

By not releasing?

when game finally launches a lot of players will vanish from here so even if the game receive more bashing than any other mmo, it doesn't matter i will be playing or doing RL stuff , so who cares about it

Nothing is really innovative and there are no inventions if we really want to deconstruct things.

EVERYTHING is based upon something else down to the atoms (possible further).

If a person says SWToRs dialouge is innovative then so are GW2s DE's.

Both take old concepts and improve upon them a lot and implement them in game changing ways for the current MMO climate. (altough past 50 in ToR it reverts back to wow afaik)

I don't care if GW2 is innovative or not since everyone and their mother seems to have different definitions of it so it's rather pointless if it is or isn't.

Originally posted by Valua

Fully realized alternative underwater combat. Again, just because it's underwater doesn't mean it's innovative, druid cat form, in the underwater wow area, can't remember what it's called. 

 

This I will argue with because it is fundamentally different enough in GW2 to be innovative. In WoW a class could change skillsets by transforming while in GW2 your skills themselves change when you go underwater to gain new effects that can affect the axis of opponents making them sink or float and nearly all your skills become different under water to make sense(your weap skills just change though).

Skills adapt to feel like they belong underwater... You won't be casting hands that grapple people from the ground instead the skill will look and act slightly different to feel right underwater.

Originally posted by Valua

FPS style drop in/drop out PvP with creatable server type Most MMO's? World of Warcraft.

?  Really, you can do custom server types in WoW?  I missed it, if that's so.  Certainly not true in MOST MMOs though, no idea where you got that idea.

Fully realized alternative underwater combat. Again, just because it's underwater doesn't mean it's innovative, druid cat form, in the underwater wow area, can't remember what it's called. 

... sort of the same type of technology, but totally different application.  Creating a different underwater style combat system with more 3D combat effects and new conditions such as rising/sinking.... well, never mind.  It impresses ME, but we'll leave this alone for now.

AAA B2P Global Agenda

Hmmm.  Probably should have specified game that is designed to be that way.  Global Agenda shifted to that because what they wanted to be, failed, rather than being B2P purposefully. ;)

Instant access to max level PvP characters Ultima Online, Ever Quest (I read something about EQ a while ago.)

... reeeeeally?  I looked around a little for this, couldn't find evidence.  You might be right, but I didn't see it.  How do you in UO/EQ create max level fully powered characters for PvP?

Downed state. Most FPS MMO's? APB 

APB isn't an MMORPG.  It's an MMOFPS.  That's like saying that anything done in the FPS genre counts as an advance in the RPG genre.  (For that matter, Global Agenda isn't either).  Also, some time internet browsing didn't bring up anything about a downed state.  Hmmm.  This also needs further documentation. :T

I could add more, but I'll keep the list small so you don't have to spend so much time. :)  I'll let Cali59 mention the subtleties of dynamic events, he needs a 'dynamic events' hat or something.

 

Originally posted by BadSpock

snip

And I imagine you and 80% of the posters on this forum will stay here until the site's administrator just decides to quit, because with such an outlook on the evolution of the MMORPG genre you simply deserve to be disappointed. 

Originally posted by Valua

1.) This game will recieve more bashing than any other MMO in the history of the genre. It will have more people raging than Vanguard. It will have more haters than World of Warcraft. Why? Because it will not live up to the hype, it simply cannot, no game can. 

2.) People will regret calling it "innovative," again simply because it is not. All the things that this game is said to have have been done before, maybe on a smaller scale, but still done before. Therefore it is not innovative. 

3.) The game will be good, not gods gift to the world, but good. It will have a strong player base, just not as large as what some people are predicting (more than World of Warcraft, really? No. It will do as well as Guild Wars 1, maybe a little better.)

 

I'm not bashing the game at all, I think it will be very good. But I'm pissed off with every single MMO being compared with it right now, the game isn't even released yet, you cannot compare a game to something you've never played. Yes, you've seen the videos, but I also saw videos of Age of Conan/Vanguard which made those games look like the second coming. 

To conclude, you can't compare, or rate, a game you've never played (or only played an hour of.) I realise that this website is mostly full with Guild Wars 2 fantatics, but seriously, wait until the game is about before bashing another game or because it is not as good as Guild Wars 2 (which is an invalid opinion as you do not know.) 

 

These are my predictions, my opinions. Free of biased reviewing. Rant over.

 

 

 

Halo lived up to expectations

Uncharted usually surpasses expectations

Gears of WAR usually exceeds expectations

ME1 & ME2 were better than I had hoped especially ME2 since it was consolized.

Skyrim had tons of hope and expectations and I think it met 90% of them

I think WOW far exceeded anyone wildest dreams

Dragon Age 1 met expectations while Dragon Age 2 fell short

Deus EX 3 met expectations even though alot of long time fans like me thought for sure we would be let down. 

Etc............

I think GW2 is one of those games like Diablo 3 that will meet 90% of the fans expecations imo.

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by BadSpock

In the end there will be plenty of people on these very forums who bash the game and say it fails or failed and troll every thread on the topic like they currently do in all the TOR threads. You know who you are!

Somehow believing that they have the right and are some how more right in their opinon than everyone else is and by GOD will they make sure we know their opinion... again and again and again and again...

In the end there will be fanbois who defend the game like their mother's name that all seem to disappear from the forums after the game is released because they either A) love the game and don't post anymore B) ashamed they fell for it again

How does a B2P title "fail"?

By not releasing?

Did you read my post?

Originally posted by Alot

Originally posted by BadSpock

snip

And I imagine you and 80% of the posters on this forum will stay here until the site's administrator just decides to quit, because with such an outlook on the evolution of the MMORPG genre you simply deserve to be disappointed. 

I've come to terms with that.

The world is getting more stupid every day it seems, and I'm only getting older.

I have high hopes for GW2, if I were to draw up a list of the things I don't like about the "modern" theme park MMO, and how I'd fix them, I could put that list side by side with GW2 and there would be a LOT of overlap.

But is it enough? We shall see.

I have, however, without a doubt completely lost all faith in the integrity of 99% of the posters on this website.

Logic and reason have no place on MMORPG.com anymore, if they ever did.

Perhaps even more sad, is that there is really no where else to go and SOMETIMES there are still some great threads and posters here.

It's taken me 6 pages to realize this entire debate is pointless (and I'm kind of ashamed). The OP's interpretation of "innovation" is so restrictively narrow, that it defies logic.

By these rationales, the telephone was not innovative because long range communication already existed in the form of the telegraph. The automobile is just a fancy horse. TV is just radio with pictures - both already existed.

I see lots of innovation (new ideas) in GW2. I've never seen underwater combat done like it is in GW2. You can maybe tear out all the component parts, and say they've already existed, but the underwater combat in it's current form is not like anything out there.

That is innovation.

Originally posted by Size-Twelve

It's taken me 6 pages to realize this entire debate is pointless (and I'm kind of ashamed). The OP's interpretation of "innovation" is so restrictively narrow, that it defies logic.

By these rationales, the telephone was not innovative because long range communication already existed in the form of the telegraph. The automobile is just a fancy horse. TV is just radio with pictures - both already existed.

 

I see lots of innovation (new ideas) in GW2. I've never seen underwater combat done like it is in GW2. You can maybe tear out all the component parts, and say they've already existed, but the underwater combat in it's current form is not like anything I've ever seen.

That is innovation.

Like I said, PvP was invented by cavemen who decided they both wanted the same woman.

(Yes, I realize they had fights BEFORE then, but those weren't players.  Everybody knows dinosaurs are NPCs. :T )

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by Size-Twelve

It's taken me 6 pages to realize this entire debate is pointless (and I'm kind of ashamed). The OP's interpretation of "innovation" is so restrictively narrow, that it defies logic.

By these rationales, the telephone was not innovative because long range communication already existed in the form of the telegraph. The automobile is just a fancy horse. TV is just radio with pictures - both already existed.

 

I see lots of innovation (new ideas) in GW2. I've never seen underwater combat done like it is in GW2. You can maybe tear out all the component parts, and say they've already existed, but the underwater combat in it's current form is not like anything I've ever seen.

That is innovation.

Like I said, PvP was invented by cavemen who decided they both wanted the same woman.

(Yes, I realize they had fights BEFORE then, but those weren't players.  Everybody knows dinosaurs are NPCs. :T )

haha

that is a subject by itself. as gw1 has the best pvp in just about any mmorpgs game to date imo.

not about how much xp you grind, or how many raids you been to get that t6 armor or what not.

and not how many times you can spam your firebolt ober skill (not taking fotm and imba builds - RAO etc)

just timeing, timeing, timeing

and not even having 50 skills and you bar.

8x8x2 is all you need for good pvp.

Originally posted by Valua

great. I would really like you to tell me the names of these games even if they're not the first to do so.

 

Dynamic events. - Warhammer, World of Wacraft, Rift.

Personal story. - Champions Online, City of Heroes (if we go very broadly then every single MMO that people have RP'ed in.)

PvP. Almost every single MMO.

Dodging. Dragon Nest, Vindictus, Terra, Continent of the Ninth and many more.

Public quests did not replace questing

NO. If anything it's closer to Warhammer's tomb of knowledge, but instead of simply recording your statistics and adding lore to read, it helps create the out come of events that take place with in the home zone. The personal story also creates a background for your character which has a very prominent role in early game, but at the same time help create unique player experiences. An example would be as a charr you would choose your legion, now naturally the charr are an extremely cut-throat race, where as picking Blood legion you may have to kill your father to ascend to leadership in your Warband, or if you choose to be a female charr, you will deal with variances of lingering discrimination from the days of Flame Legion.

Sure if you pick either poverity or wealth as a human, you will still end up saving farms from burrower-worms, and you'll still end up fighting the shatterer at one point or another, but the way that you create your character will offer you unique side events along your journey to help ensure the freshness of creating a new character, even if that character is of the same race.

I really hope you're not comparing that to City of Heroes'  morality system, that when boiled down is nothing more than a simple daily system that allows you to obtain high end rewards without having farm task force missions. Honestly I don't know what you're going on about in Champions Online, hopefully you're reffering to a rather new feature as I haven't played this game recently, but from what I remember Champions Online was extremely lacking in the character story development, in the fact that there was none.

Also if you didn't realize yet, dodging is nothing more than ANet building upon their previous games' ability to allow characters to dodge projectiles and AoE by simply redirecting their movement. It's nothing super innovative or new, and I doubt that anyone is saying that it is.

I think the issue is that you're misunderstanding the hype over this game, what people are excited about is that many poor elements of game design that have been streamlined by fear in this genre, are finally getting removed from a AAA title, things like the Dead-horse trinity, Questing and Quest hubs, Gear Treadmills, Gear based PVP, and the fact that all this quality does not require a subscription fee. After all, in today's time it's hard not to get excited about saving money.

Might I ask that you take some time and educate yourself on what this game is about, instead of basing your judgements on preconcieved notions from people who are unwilling to do the same?

OP, have you considered that Innovative use of something someone else invented is Innovative?

It's about how GW2 is doing things; who cares that DAOC pioneered 3 realm rvr?

Originally posted by Valua

Originally posted by TwoPiArrrr

The real difference is that thousands of people have played it, and most of them agree with the hype.

As did those who played The Old Republic, Vanguard, Aion, Age of Conan etc, etc. 

 

The developers only let them play what they want to be played. 

 

I don't think this game is in Closed Beta yet either, so I don't think the majority of the game has been even touched upon.

 So you think ArenaNet are liars? You have anything to base that on except that you managed to think it? I can think the moon will drop on your head tomorrow, but that won't make it happen, or will it?

must be rough likimg TOR.