Originally posted by Fareas

 

Well GW2 seems pretty neat in the department of not getting bored. If i get bored of doing DEs I can go do some personal story, if I get bored of that I can do WvWvW and then if I get bored of that I can do competitive PvP all of those are doable after the tutorial so I'm not stuck reaching X part in the game to actually do what I want to do. There's also crafting and mini games.

GW2 looks like a few different games stapled in 1 awesome package. I have to appreciate that it's trying to make all crowds happy.

Well I too commend them for trying to step out of the box, that deserves my attention as an MMO fan in and of itself.

 As a gamer I think the fact they are trying to fill so many gaps shows gonads (sorry lack of a better family friendly term.)

I"m only saying as with any advertising, selective viewing, company hype,  etc.. Take it with some level of acknowledgment that it may not be as good as it sounds or seems.

People will go over this game with a fine tooth comb, no matter what it offers there is bound to be something it won't, and that's what will be focused on by the players at large. Just look at TOR, so many focus not on what the game offers they focus on what it doesn't, that's just the way "player critics" work.

"Guild Wars 2 will be bigger than World of Warcraft"

What is so magical about World of Warcraft?  What makes its numbers unbeatable?  League of Legends already has more players than WoW (15 million).

WoW came along at the right time with a very accessible formula which took off in an unprecedented way.  But that was in 2004.  It's seeing a decline in subscribers, it's shooting itself in the foot somewhat with its Panda expansion.  It's still costly to play with the subscription still being offputting to some.  Other companies have tried to go head to head against WoW and failed, due to lack of content, lack of polish, or even simply that with subscription games, a new game has to be so much better than WoW in order to convince people to give up their progress and switch, and convince their friends to switch too.

GW2 is not as cheap as LoL, but it's still cheaper than WoW.  It doesn't have a subscription.  It looks better than WoW.  It's getting rid of the tired quest model.  It's got e-sport PVP and a publisher with a very real Asian presence.  They're taking the time to polish it to a high shine and provide a massive amount of content after 7 years of games not being able to do that.  It's got an IP which sold almost 2 million copies of the core game in the first year.

I'm not saying that it WILL be bigger than WoW, but I see no reason why it would be completely unreasonable that it COULD be bigger than WoW.

 

"Guild Wars 2 will change the way we play MMOs"

GW2's open world is all about cooperation.  Unlike other games that all but actively discourage you from interacting with other people, GW2 passively brings people together.  Other people can never hurt you or compete with you in any way.  Events scale up with more people so they're more chaotic and fun, and also more rewarding.  This is a game that makes you WANT to see other people, not just ignore them, avoid them, or at best group with them for one quest before disbanding.

GW2 also won't have instanced raiding.  Instead of having your 3x a week raid night and the rest of your time devoted to farming to prepare for that, GW2 is all about doing whatever you want to do, whether it be exploring, PVE, PVP, crafting, minigames, whatever.

It's also B2P, so people won't feel locked into a subscription or that they NEED to get their money's worth every month.

 

As far as it being the second coming, I don't know who has said that, and honestly I don't care if anyone did.  ArenaNet has been very open about what to expect with GW2 and there's been a mountain of demo footage that has backed that up (5 zones, starts of 3 personal stories, 7 of 8 classes, all the races, 3 cities, a structured PVP map, journalists have played two dungeons, other stuff like crafting, traits, achievements, etc).  We haven't seen everything, but everything we've seen has backed up their statements.  They do want to make the #1 MMO and they're taking the time to iterate and polish it until it's quality, not just functional.  True GW2 fans will not be disappointed at all in the game when it does get released.

Oh you silly little fanatic.

This is exactly the reason I posted here, because of deluded people like yourself. 

LoL has 15 million players because it is free to make an account, but only a fraction play. Runescape actually has 90 million accounts, but again only a fraction of that number play on a regular basis. Why so many players? Because they are free. Don't compare them to World of Warcraft or Guild Wars 2.

Mists of Pandaria will bring many of those that left World of Warcraft back, mark my words, it's a PvP expansion, something the WoW community has been wanting for years. Then Pokemon style battle's with monsters, something millions of people have wanted for years. So, don't look at Pandaria as a hinderence to WoW. Trust me.

B2P isn't innovation, it's been done countless times before. Most single player games with only aspects do this, you might say that they are no MMO's, but neither is Guild Wars1. It's a lobby game, just like the only aspect of Call of Duty. 

Yes, Arenanet won't care how many people are actively playing the game as long as they sell millions of boxes, but we, as players, care don't we? We want to see the gave thrive? We want to be on servers full of players? I do anyway. 

Being able to do what you want, when you want, also isn't innovation. Sandbox games have done it for years. Vanguard is my prime expample of sandpark, which also has no instances. 

Everything everyone has mentioned to me here as "innovation" has been corrected by me, well, in my term of the word innovation anyway, the English dictionary definition. 

Those who fall to the hype of this game will be sorely dissapointed. As would any gamer, for any game, that had the ammount of hype this game does.

YOU will be dissapointed when this game doesn't meet up to your every expectation. 

Originally posted by Valua

 

YOU will be dissapointed when this game doesn't meet up to your every expectation. 

 

 

 

 

And what if it does meet every one of my expectations? Will you come back to eat some crow?

Originally posted by Distopia

Well I too commend them for trying to step out of the box, that deserves my attention as an MMO fan in and of itself.

 As a gamer I think the fact they are trying to fill so many gaps shows gonads (sorry lack of a better family friendly term.)

I"m only saying as with any advertising, selective viewing, company hype,  etc.. Take it with some level of acknowledgment that it may not be as good as it sounds or seems.

This is the way I look at it.

GW1 is a highly divisive game.  There are a lot of people who would rather grate their eyeballs off with a cheese grater, than play it some more, even without having a subscription.

... and I will acknowledge it could really be improved, and if you look at it as an MMO, it is horrible (It's not an MMO though, thankfully. :P ).

The fact that they're doing a lot of the same design features that I enjoyed from GW1, then sticking it in an MMORPG... well...

... unless they actually backslide, and make GW2 worse than GW1 (With more money, more staffing, and a lot more time to develop it), I should be able to enjoy it, at minimum for all the reasons I enjoyed GW1. :)

Seriously, the vast majority of my gameplay in GW1?  PvP.  I just like the whole 'not having to grind your ass off to be able to fight in PvP without dying due to gear disparity' angle. :)

Well, I like a lot of things, and barring some catastrophic failure on their part, I'm not sure why what I want wouldn't be delivered.  I'm not asking for much to love the game, I just want a game that caters to my taste.

Being an excellent game on top of it would just be the 50 pound cherry on my banana split. :)

To imply that nothing new has been introduced here is sort of delusional, unless you mean in the context of, "nothing has been released, therefore how can anything have been introduced", sort of way. I find it hard to take this thread seriously.

Right off the top of my head I think of the underwater breathing apparatus, and a special set of skills and weapons for fighting underwater. Nothing like this has ever been done.

The ability to tie your own soundtracks to events in the game has NEVER been done before.

The catapults in WvWvW can fire at such a distance, that the developers had to add special code so you could see the fireballs incoming in the distance. Both the distance traveled, and the code that allows it could be considered innovative.

 

There are so many other innovative aspects to this game. If you want to get bogged down in semantics go ahead. You're wrong either way.

There are some other reasonable arguments in the OP, but lack of innovation is just something you can't pin on GW2.

Again, the things you mentioned have already been done before in MMO's, yes, maybe to a lesser extent, but still done before. 

Guild Wars is all about revolutionising, not innovation.

Originally posted by Valua

To imply that nothing new has been introduced here is sort of delusional, unless you mean in the context of, "nothing has been released, therefore how can anything have been introduced", sort of way. I find it hard to take this thread seriously.

Right off the top of my head I think of the underwater breathing apparatus, and a special set of skills and weapons for fighting underwater. Nothing like this has ever been done.

The ability to tie your own soundtracks to events in the game has NEVER been done before.

The catapults in WvWvW can fire at such a distance, that the developers had to add special code so you could see the fireballs incoming in the distance. Both the distance traveled, and the code that allows it could be considered innovative.

 

There are so many other innovative aspects to this game. If you want to get bogged down in semantics go ahead. You're wrong either way.

There are some other reasonable arguments in the OP, but lack of innovation is just something you can't pin on GW2.

 

Again, the things you mentioned have already been done before in MMO's, yes, maybe to a lesser extent, but still done before. 

 

Guild Wars is all about revolutionising, not innovation.

Were they introduced successfully? Yes or no?

This is the way I look at it.

GW1 is a highly divisive game.  There are a lot of people who would rather grate their eyeballs off with a cheese grater, than play it some more, even without having a subscription.

... and I will acknowledge it could really be improved, and if you look at it as an MMO, it is horrible (It's not an MMO though, thankfully. :P ).

The fact that they're doing a lot of the same design features that I enjoyed from GW1, then sticking it in an MMORPG... well...

... unless they actually backslide, and make GW2 worse than GW1 (With more money, more staffing, and a lot more time to develop it), I should be able to enjoy it, at minimum for all the reasons I enjoyed GW1. :)

Seriously, the vast majority of my gameplay in GW1?  PvP.  I just like the whole 'not having to grind your ass off to be able to fight in PvP without dying due to gear disparity' angle. :)

Well, I like a lot of things, and barring some catastrophic failure on their part, I'm not sure why what I want wouldn't be delivered.  I'm not asking for much to love the game, I just want a game that caters to my taste.

Being an excellent game on top of it would just be the 50 pound cherry on my banana split. :)

This! 

I didn't care much for Guild Wars 1 myself, enjoyed a little casual PvP every now and then, so I don't have any doubt that I will find Guild Wars 2 a better game.

I just don't think that it will be God's gift to MMO gamers, like some in this thread clearly do.

Were they introduced successfully? Yes or no?

Introducing something successfully does not qualify for Innovation, again revolutionising.

And how would I know if the features were introduced successfully or not, I haven't played the game.

And what if it does meet every one of my expectations? Will you come back to eat some crow?

Yes.

Originally posted by Valua

Being able to do what you want, when you want, also isn't innovation. Sandbox games have done it for years. Vanguard is my prime expample of sandpark, which also has no instances. 

 

Mmm, actually Vanguard makes it a lot harder to do what you want, when you want.  Long travel times, gear disparity for PvP, meaningful levels.... stuff like that gets in the way.  In fact, I was under the impression that the fact you CAN'T do what you want, that you have to earn the hell out of it first, was one of the attractions for Vanguard. :P  (That's what you call a design decision)

... oh.  ... and one of the problems with playing Vanguard is... well, you're playing Vanguard.  ALl my friends who played it basically abandoned it while weeping about how poorly programmed it was. :T

If GW2 ends up being a shitty bugridden mess, you can come back and laugh at us all for having high hopes.  Until then, we can all laugh at Vanguard. ;)

Originally posted by Valua

Again, the things you mentioned have already been done before in MMO's, yes, maybe to a lesser extent, but still done before. 

 

Guild Wars is all about revolutionising, not innovation.

??  Really?  I actually don't know of another MMORPG that replaces all your combat skills with a seperate set of underwater skills.  Which MMORPG was this, anyway?  Genuinely curious, because that game should get kudos for doing it.

Originally posted by Valua

And what if it does meet every one of my expectations? Will you come back to eat some crow?

 

Yes.

Recorded for reference

I'll even supply some salt and pepper for you.

Originally posted by Master10K

I find it quite sad how often that people like the OP feel the need, the compulsion, to come on the GW2 forums and berate the game and its community because some other games failed them in some way. People who follow GW2 don't refer to it as the "2nd Coming" only you do, you who feels so threathened by the game's existence that you have to make a thread like this. It will be those people that will try their hardest to bash the game upon release, which is why once the game is released I won't even waste my time on these forums for a while. Even if the game lives up to the majority of people expectations, it will be people like the OP and fans of other games that will openly bash GW2, even when there won't be much to bash it for.

I agree, and actually... while I wasn't really excited about this game in the least, the good information that keeps flowing from the forums, especially people like you an Cali, have really peaked my interest. I'm at the point now that I will be getting the game and giving it a go. 

So to the original poster, not everyone is overly hyped. Up until recently, I didn't even plan on taking a look at this. After reading and reading and reading some more, I can say that I will be getting it now. I'm not super hyped, but with everything I've heard and read, I can't deny that it deserves a go. 

I think most gamers are so pissed at the game that they are currently playing, they become angry that there is a game that people are excited for...lol

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by Valua

Again, the things you mentioned have already been done before in MMO's, yes, maybe to a lesser extent, but still done before. 

 

Guild Wars is all about revolutionising, not innovation.

??  Really?  I actually don't know of another MMORPG that replaces all your combat skills with a seperate set of underwater skills.  Which MMORPG was this, anyway?  Genuinely curious, because that game should get kudos for doing it.

He or she has the term innovate mixed up, as do a lot of people. Those people seem to think innovation means invention.

Did GW2 invent any of their features? No but there is quite a bit of innovation (which can mean improvement upon what is already the standard).

Innovation is the creation of better or more effective products, processes, services, technologies, or ideas that are accepted by markets, governments, and society. Innovation differs from invention in that innovation refers to the use of a new idea or method, whereas invention refers more directly to the creation of the idea or method itself.

I agree, particularly regarding the dynamic quests.  I think alot of people are having expectations that they will bring about this huge, unpredictable world where something new is always happening.

But in reality, there's only so many ways you can code these things to play out, and sooner or later, a player will have "seen it all", or "seen all they WANT to see".  And at that point it will feel every bit as linear as any themepark game.  But it's all a matter of how long it can fool you into believing that it's a game where "anything can happen".  Seems Skyrim had that... at least for a little while.

I'm still hopeful.  I mean, it's B2P.  If all you get out of it is about a month of play, that's as much as any single player game, and at the same price.

Mmm, actually Vanguard makes it a lot harder to do what you want, when you want.  Long travel times, gear disparity for PvP, meaningful levels.... stuff like that gets in the way.  In fact, I was under the impression that the fact you CAN'T do what you want, that you have to earn the hell out of it first, was one of the attractions for Vanguard. :P  (That's what you call a design decision)

... oh.  ... and one of the problems with playing Vanguard is... well, you're playing Vanguard.  ALl my friends who played it basically abandoned it while weeping about how poorly programmed it was. :T

If GW2 ends up being a shitty bugridden mess, you can come back and laugh at us all for having high hopes.  Until then, we can all laugh at Vanguard. ;)

Don't get my wrong, I don't particually like Vanguard, but the person above did say Guild Wars 2 was innovative due to lack of instancing and being able to do what you want, when you want. 

You still get to do what you want when you want in Vanguard, you just have to travel a bit, like in real life (I would love map travelling in real life though, but for some reason I don't like it in games, spoils my immersion.)

But on the topic of Vanguard, I remember it having hype on the same level as Guild Wars 2, maybe that is another reason why I don't trust hype of this level? 

Like I said earlier, I've avoided much of the hype surrounding Guild Wars 2 which means it can only be better than I expected, if it's worse, then it's as good as Vanguard.

I agree, and actually... while I wasn't really excited about this game in the least, the good information that keeps flowing from the forums, especially people like you an Cali, have really peaked my interest. I'm at the point now that I will be getting the game and giving it a go. 

 

So to the original poster, not everyone is overly hyped. Up until recently, I didn't even plan on taking a look at this. After reading and reading and reading some more, I can say that I will be getting it now. I'm not super hyped, but with everything I've heard and read, I can't deny that it deserves a go. 

 

I think most gamers are so pissed at the game that they are currently playing, they become angry that there is a game that people are excited for...lol

My agenda all along, to get people interested in Guild Wars 2.

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by Valua

Again, the things you mentioned have already been done before in MMO's, yes, maybe to a lesser extent, but still done before. 

 

Guild Wars is all about revolutionising, not innovation.

??  Really?  I actually don't know of another MMORPG that replaces all your combat skills with a seperate set of underwater skills.  Which MMORPG was this, anyway?  Genuinely curious, because that game should get kudos for doing it.

World of Warcraft. 

Druid class.

Animal forms. 

Just because it's not underwater doesn't mean it's not the same. But I suppose it might, because it's Guild Wars 2.

Originally posted by Valua

Yes, you've seen the videos, but I also saw videos of Age of Conan/Vanguard which made those games look like the second coming. 

 

IMO vanguard WAS the second coming - of everquest.  By game design it was the best sandbox there was.  If not for the buggy coding it would be king.  At this point the bugs are fixed, but its too late.  It will never get enough subscribers back to be able to afford new content.  So sad.

He or she has the term innovate mixed up, as do a lot of people. Those people seem to think innovation means invention.

Did GW2 invent any of their features? No but there is quite a bit of innovation (which can mean improvement upon what is already the standard).

Innovation is the creation of better or more effective products, processes, services, technologies, or ideas that are accepted by markets, governments, and society. Innovation differs from invention in that innovation refers to the use of a new idea or method, whereas invention refers more directly to the creation of the idea or method itself.

Innovation - the act of starting something for the first time; introducing something new.