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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: Good Cop, Bad Cop – SWTOR

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211 posts found
  alkarionlog

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/09
Posts: 1078

1/30/12 11:20:55 AM#41
Originally posted by SBFord
Originally posted by moosecatlol

The only thing that companions do that is innovative is take the work out of crafting, next up, companions that play the game for you.

LOL! Best. Comment. Ever.

:)

even though the comment is nice and all :)

 

grand phantasya already did that, sprites (even though when you summon then they jsut give you a buff and loot items) craft your items and they are auto bots too, just pay for CS items, go to sleep and let him do all lvling thing and loot.

 

just saying even that bioware copied from anotehr game :), so yes guys and gals, this game have nothing new to give us. but hey at least they could pull of the pay a monthly fee to play a SP game :)

FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.

  Robsolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/06
Posts: 4048

Let go of my ears, I know what I'm doing!

1/30/12 11:30:49 AM#42

I see the value in most of the points brought up in the article.  However, while I'd agree with Suzie about the VO being a bit overdone, I wouldn't say that it makes the mission to be the "same thing" as any quest in any other game, any more than pulling a lever at a die-casting shop is the same as pulling a lever to start the gas chamber at Auschwitz.


For one(and this also speaks to the "murderer" comment), the VO often doesn't just start and end with talking with the QG, or even be just for the beginning and end of the mission.  Quite often you are given a choice(s) DURING that mission; whether it's sparing the life of the target, or choosing a more/less merciful way of completing it. 


It's true that many sidequests are as Suzie stated; last night some dork at the base asks for 10 ship parts.  Clear the mobs, click on the things, turn it in to get your reward and a good butt smooching, and you're done, just like any other game.  But along with it I got a mission to kill a boss, and after bringing him to his knees, I had the option to capture him (DARK side!) or to kill him outright (LIGHT side!).  This makes all the difference in the world to someone who cares why they are doing the mission, and it's quite a difference between that and the old alternative:  do the mission or don't.


Personally, I don't see, if someone can't appreciate that difference, or at least even SEE the difference, why they would ever want to play a role playing game at all.


Again, I agree that they are overused and/or suffer from being all clumped into a hub where it seems like you have 10 minutes of VO to get through for 3-4 missions in a row... and sometimes there's so much of it, it all runs together and you can't quite remember why you're doing what and for who...


...but it's still better 3-4 missions worth of text totally devoid of choices.  For me, those tend to run together in much the same way.


And lastly, on the "murder" bit... can't possibly agree more.  I'd LOVE to see an interesting MMO come out that isn't just about killing for XP and loot.  To use BW's usual "go-to" philosophy regarding their content:


The MOVIES weren't JUST about going and killing stuff, and fights didn't break out EVERYWHERE the characters went.  How often to Han and Chewie run into a building blasting everything in sight to go kill/spare some head honcho?  Hell, Jabba was a total dick and they STILL tried to resolve things peacefully...


  moosecatlol

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/25/10
Posts: 1189

1/30/12 11:34:38 AM#43
Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by SBFord


Originally posted by moosecatlol



The only thing that companions do that is innovative is take the work out of crafting, next up, companions that play the game for you.

LOL! Best. Comment. Ever.


:)



 

 


That guy almost sounds like he enjoys sitting in front of a forge, staring at a percentage bar going from 0% to 100% for 27 times in a row before he can continue playing the game. There are some of us who enjoys playing the game for the whole time logged in, that's why this is the first mmorpg where I actually keep my crafting skills up to date.


 


And yes the companions are a lot of fun since they dont feel like just another DOT pet like in most other mmorpgs!


 


What comes to VO's and story, I love them, but I really see only 2 unique stories in this game. One for your chosen class per faction, having to run all the same other leveling content with no choise over the path you want to take at any time kinda narrows the uniqueness to only one time per faction, even if there is 4 unique main stories on both sides. This game should've had 2 different paths per planet and a couple of more off-planet ways to level besides PvP and space minigame.


 


Overall a great and a fun game, never had this much fun playing a mmorpg with friends before, lolling at eachothers dialog choises, doing HC's, flashpoints, zerging normal quests, something that is usually penalized in other games (grouping) with less XP and rewards (in TOR you get actually more) + it's fun to do dialog together, something that is missing completely in other mmorpgs.

That's something that I don't understand about games in general is where ever there is crafting, there is a crafting cast bar. Is there any purpose to this?

On the other hand, any skill that was required to gather materials in a competitive enviorment is lost on the concept of having your "Companions" doing it for you. Gathering can be one of the most cut-throat experiences out there, even more so than pvp in some cases.

Also having gathering nodes helps stimulate the economy in a way, because there is only so much of a certain gathering node that can spawn in a world. Where as having everyone's "Companions" off gathering materials makes those materials lose value. From what I understand, the only valuable crafting materials comes from raiding, and a long cooldown from an npc request.

My question is: What is it that crafters really want out of a games crafting? A rewarding crafting system like SWG's?

 

Also from what I've been reading on the SWTOR forums, players often don't find a solid use for crafted items in a raid enviornment, any truth to this?

I guess at this point I'm starting to derail the thread into a topic about crafting, I should go make breakfast or something.

 

  theniffrig

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/07
Posts: 352

Ooh, they have the internet on computers now.

1/30/12 11:36:01 AM#44

Wait! The same Suzie Ford who gave the game 8/10 in this article:


http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/feature/5947/The-Staff-Roundtable-Review.html


Playing "bad cop" now eh? Hmm...


Cause, if i was to give a game an 8/10 about a month ago, I wouldn't feel like I'd be justified in writing an article where I have to play the "bad cop" and bash the game I obviously liked so much to give it an 8/10.


Shouldn't have fired Danny Wojcicki.


 


  SBFord

Associate Editor - News Manager

Joined: 6/28/10
Posts: 14229

 
OP  1/30/12 11:38:24 AM#45
Originally posted by theniffrig

Wait! The same Suzie Ford who gave the game 8/10 in this article:


http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/feature/5947/The-Staff-Roundtable-Review.html


Playing "bad cop" now eh? Hmm...


Cause, if i was to give a game an 8/10 about a month ago, I wouldn't feel like I'd be justified in writing an article where I have to play the "bad cop" and bash the game I obviously liked so much to give it an 8/10.


Shouldn't have fired Danny Wojcicki.


 

Aw c'mon. I gave it an 8/10 after only 5 days playing and with a lot of hesitation initially. It's not a bad game by any stretch. It's just a game that, for me anyway, got very old, very fast for the above-mentioned reasons.

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

  eddieg50

Elite Member

Joined: 6/22/05
Posts: 1548

1/30/12 11:45:53 AM#46

The main thing that TOR has that others dont is stellar story and voice overs (conan had an excellent 20 lvls of Tortage, why do u think people feel that Tortage is the only good thing about Conan, because of the story and voice overs), These 2 things bring TOR to the forfront of all MMO's and simply make it more engaging and immesive and now for the most important part FUN.


  theniffrig

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/07
Posts: 352

Ooh, they have the internet on computers now.

1/30/12 11:46:09 AM#47

Originally posted by SBFord


I gave it an 8/10 after only 5 days playing


 


This is what's wrong with people giving opinions about games when they've hardly played them. If reviewers held off for about a month and then gave a review of the game they might give a more informed opinion that will better help sway the views of their readers.


  Ceridith

Novice Member

Joined: 11/24/09
Posts: 3001

The more you hype an upcoming game in your mind, the more it will fail to meet your expectations.

1/30/12 11:46:17 AM#48
Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by SBFord


Originally posted by moosecatlol



The only thing that companions do that is innovative is take the work out of crafting, next up, companions that play the game for you.

LOL! Best. Comment. Ever.


:)



 

 


That guy almost sounds like he enjoys sitting in front of a forge, staring at a percentage bar going from 0% to 100% for 27 times in a row before he can continue playing the game. There are some of us who enjoys playing the game for the whole time logged in, that's why this is the first mmorpg where I actually keep my crafting skills up to date.


...

Because all MMO crafting is clicking "craft" and waiting for the progress bar.

Apparently you've never played EQ2, Vanguard, SWG, or UO.

There use to be a time when crafting actually meant something, and took dedication and skill to do well at, and of course the reward was actually creating useful things. These days crafting is a side-show mechanic that everyone and their mother is expected to pick up and muddle their way through with little effort.

  AdamTM

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/05
Posts: 1395

I'M PUNCHING YOUR SALAD!!!!

1/30/12 11:46:36 AM#49
Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Originally posted by Tardcore

I think this article format is an excelent idea, and feel this first attempt brought up some very relevent criticisms about SWTOR. However it all becomes farce when I look to the right of the page see the big




8.7








near perfect rating. How could a game have such noteworthy flaws yet still recive such a steller rating?








 











 




 



8.7 is a solid "B" effort. Not even "B+", just "B". Not exactly a "near perfect rating".

On what scale?

this one?

10 - A

9 - B

8 - C

7- D

6- E

5 - F

4- G

3 - H

2 - I

1 - J 

 

You are quickly running out of letters there with G-J being imaginary grades

  Robsolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/06
Posts: 4048

Let go of my ears, I know what I'm doing!

1/30/12 11:48:07 AM#50

Originally posted by moosecatlol



That's something that I don't understand about games in general is where ever there is crafting, there is a crafting cast bar. Is there any purpose to this?


On the other hand, any skill that was required to gather materials in a competitive enviorment is lost on the concept of having your "Companions" doing it for you. Gathering can be one of the most cut-throat experiences out there, even more so than pvp in some cases.


Also having gathering nodes helps stimulate the economy in a way, because there is only so much of a certain gathering node that can spawn in a world. Where as having everyone's "Companions" off gathering materials makes those materials lose value. From what I understand, the only valuable crafting materials comes from raiding, and a long cooldown from an npc request.


My question is: What is it that crafters really want out of a games crafting? A rewarding crafting system like SWG's?


 


Also from what I've been reading on the SWTOR forums, players often don't find a solid use for crafted items in a raid enviornment, any truth to this?


I guess at this point I'm starting to derail the thread into a topic about crafting, I should go make breakfast or something.


 



 


Just to make sure you understand:  There ARE gathering nodes in the world, and they are by far the best way to gather materials.  On the PvP front, you're right in that your crew member can gather while you keep an eye out for enemy players.


Having your crew "quest" for mats is expensive, and costs you the absence of that crew member.  If you got all your mats by crew quests, you probably wouldn't profit at all from crafted gear.  Or at least nowhere near as much.


Last but not least, there IS some serious money management required in this game, unlike most other MMO's.  Skill training gets very expensive in higher levels, and don't forget you DO have to equip at least 2 characters; yours and at least one companion.  And quest rewards are adequate, at best.  I usually pick commendations every time.


  SBFord

Associate Editor - News Manager

Joined: 6/28/10
Posts: 14229

 
OP  1/30/12 11:53:44 AM#51
Originally posted by theniffrig

Originally posted by SBFord


I gave it an 8/10 after only 5 days playing


 

This is what's wrong with people giving opinions about games when they've hardly played them. If reviewers held off for about a month and then gave a review of the game they might give a more informed opinion that will better help sway the views of their readers.

The article was probably misleading in its title. It probably should have been called "First Impressions Review Roundtable" so as not to confuse it with Mike Bitton's official MMORPG.com review posted later. My 8/10 was definitely a 1st impressions review score.

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

  Volgore

Tipster

Joined: 6/15/08
Posts: 2100

Posts deleted: 12589457

1/30/12 11:54:16 AM#52

Originally posted by SBFord


Originally posted by theniffrig


Wait! The same Suzie Ford who gave the game 8/10 in this article:




http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/feature/5947/The-Staff-Roundtable-Review.html




Playing "bad cop" now eh? Hmm...




Cause, if i was to give a game an 8/10 about a month ago, I wouldn't feel like I'd be justified in writing an article where I have to play the "bad cop" and bash the game I obviously liked so much to give it an 8/10.




Shouldn't have fired Danny Wojcicki.




 



Aw c'mon. I gave it an 8/10 after only 5 days playing and with a lot of hesitation initially. It's not a bad game by any stretch. It's just a game that, for me anyway, got very old, very fast for the above-mentioned reasons.



 


That's why professionals don't give like "final scores" after just 5 days of playing it.


Why not publishing an update article with your current impressions and score then?


You guys/girls here are always quick when it comes to fire out the high scores and stir the hype (and by now every ready should know why) -why not writing an article stating that your mind has changed after a month and regain some reader's trust?


  toddze

Novice Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 2203

I am not a hater, I call it like I see it.

1/30/12 11:54:25 AM#53

once upon a time mmo's were in a seperate category from other games. Now they are just online RPG's with a shelf life of a normall run of the mill RPG.

Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI

  arieste

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3311

1/30/12 12:00:33 PM#54
Originally posted by SBFord
Originally posted by theniffrig

Originally posted by SBFord


I gave it an 8/10 after only 5 days playing


 

This is what's wrong with people giving opinions about games when they've hardly played them. If reviewers held off for about a month and then gave a review of the game they might give a more informed opinion that will better help sway the views of their readers.

The article was probably misleading in its title. It probably should have been called "First Impressions Review Roundtable" so as not to confuse it with Mike Bitton's official MMORPG.com review posted later. My 8/10 was definitely a 1st impressions review score.

ok, so what would you score it at NOW?

"I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

- Raph Koster

Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2
Currently Playing: EQ2, Firefall

  wraith808

Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/07
Posts: 11

"In my dreams, I always do it right."

1/30/12 12:02:15 PM#55

Originally posted by theniffrig




Originally posted by SBFord







I gave it an 8/10 after only 5 days playing






 




This is what's wrong with people giving opinions about games when they've hardly played them. If reviewers held off for about a month and then gave a review of the game they might give a more informed opinion that will better help sway the views of their readers.





 


OMG This!  At one point, they stopped doing this with MMOs, giving impressions with no scores after short periods of time.  I guess the money from the big players changed them back to doing this.


Personally, I like it.  I still play it pretty compulsively, and its about the story.  And that's helped by the multiple perspectives, and the ease of leveling, as I'm not in a rush to get to 50.  PvP isn't the best- but it's fun!  Overworld PvP is pretty non-existent so far in my leveling (my highest is 33), so meh on that.  Animations on some of the alternate skills make them feel very different and inferior in some cases (Sith Juggernaut vs Jedi Guardian being the most obvious case to me- Juggernaut > Guardian all day long), and Space Combat is nowhere near deep enough (though the Freelancer feel has a good start to it, the missions don't exploit that, especially when being limited to one area), and there are a lot of other problems with it.  And to counter one of the bits about the class quests, you can go in an instance with other players in your group... just not of the same class or you get separated.  So if you're doing them all by yourself, you have no one to blame but yourself (though the server imbalances sort of suck...)


But I'm enjoying it, and I continue to, so considering this is at launch, and none of this is insurmountable given time and investment, I give it a thumbs up.


  Candomble

Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/11
Posts: 167

1/30/12 12:03:43 PM#56



Originally posted by SBFord



I actually totally agree on the amount of content. There are few SP RPGs that come close. I have no argument with the content, just get tired of voice overs REALLY fast.











 




Really? Last saturday morning (EU time), while SWTOR servers were down, I went to play a little of my former MMO - Age of Conan (to check some of the later patches stuff there).




The first time I went to "talk" to a NPC it felt so... its hard to describe... strange and incomplete? Well the entire conversation can be simple, superficial, whatever you want to call it; the quest can be simply to kill 10 rats, but it feels so much better with VO... 




I am willing to try some of the upcoming MMO titles, but I will have some problems adjusting to mute NPCs again.




 




About the world feeling empty or populated... more a matter of server than anything else. Playing on Legoins of Letow; in "prime time" you have around 100 to 150 players in each planet and +250 in the fleet. You see a lot of people everywhere. I have a couple of chars in "standard" population servers, and yes, they are quite empty. Bioware should review server population issue fast. Some server merges are needed.




Plus, I don't remember any other MMO with so much group quests as this one and looking at the fact that it is around 2 months old I think it also brings a fair amount of flashpoints. So it feels more MMO  than many of the underpopulated MMOs that you can find out there and it has at your disposal several chances for you to work in group. In the end its up to you.




 




To me the real big issue with SWTOR will start once I reach level cap in several chars (playing around with 5 chars, none at level cap). I am almost sure that I won't be in the mood for the "classical" grind model of "endgame". Probably I will get bored fast at that point. For now, I am having fun and enjoying a slow ride until lvl 50.





 

  Castillle

Forum Bunny

Joined: 10/24/10
Posts: 2682

1/30/12 12:07:16 PM#57

Ill be bad cop. 

If you dont play SWTOR, what will happen to the P2P movement?  Theyll all turn into B2P, cash shop filled monstrosities that we call...Pay2Win.

How many developers do you think can resist not filling their cash shop with stuff?  How many publishers are willing to not grill the dev group to add more sources of income? 

So come on give in and play SWTOR to save the payment scheme.

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  wizyy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/05
Posts: 636

1/30/12 12:11:31 PM#58

Some people can truly judge a game in way less time than others.

I USUALLY don't need even a few days into any MMO to see if it's good enough (except when I'm highly excited about it, like I was about AoC back then). 

Therefore, I tend to believe those who aren't biased and overexcited, and many are in this case of SWTOR. Way too many Star Wars fans who need more time to see that this game is really a huge disappointment.

Danny Wojicky wasn't biased. And gave an honest review. Shouldn't have been fired.

  Gel214th

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/07
Posts: 172

1/30/12 12:11:39 PM#59

Some of the more "controversial" elements for me is the ridiculous Travel Time through zones in this game, and the firm decision to not allow Respecing of Advance Classes at lower levels, or at all. 

Both contribute to massive time sinks for players.

I just hav enot been able to get into the groove of SWTOR. It simply feels like an "old" game sitting among much newer offerings from the new World of Warcraft, Rift, Champions Online...to the forthcoming games announced such as TSW and Guild Wars 2.

Yeah I find the voiced over quests cool, but even with all that I'm just not feeling the game. ANd I really...really wanted to like it. I bought the damn collector's edition. So I REALLY want to like this game. And it just isn't doing it for me.

I look at leveling alts with extreme dread...and the reason I feel the need to level Alts so early on is that I haven't found an Advance Class I feel comfortable with. 

In my view it's quite a mess :-\

7.5/10 is what I would give SWTOR in its current state.

  UtukuMoon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/03/11
Posts: 1109

1/30/12 12:13:22 PM#60







Originally posted by Yamota







Nice article but I dont agree with the sentiment that just because they did not say they would be innovative then it is OK that they are not. In a highly competetive and saturated genre like MMORPG all games should strive to be innovative, specially one with such a huge budget. One which, imo, was squandered on voice acting.








They should have just made the class story lines with voice overs and the rest of the Kill X and Deliver Y quests could have been text because I believe most people are spacing through those anyway. 








With the money saved from that they could have added some innovative world PvP conflict or atleast some kind of dynamic PvE quest gimmicks. Anything beside these same static world quests which we have seen repeated the last 10 years.








Rift atleast tried to be innovative. SW:TOR didn't even bother to try. And no, I dont see voice acting as innovative. Throwing away good money on hiring actors to read from a script is not innovative, it is just plain wasteful.















 








No, they just made comments like"every mmo has been a waste of time up untill this point"meaning untill swtor everyone of us who played mmos has wasted our time.




BioWare sure talked a good one lol,that about it though


As for the 8.7 mmorpg score,that should be obvious.


I will find the link of the dev actually saying those exact words.






 


 











 




 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8ymgFyzbDo

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