Originally posted by Warmaker

Back to me being more pertaining to the topic.

SWTOR is the primary, most high profile whipping boy for what's wrong with the MMORPG genre.  The answers are blatantly easy.

1.  Despite BioWare being one of the most popular developers in any game genre around, for all their reputation, they fear straying away from all the things WoW has done.  So... another WoW Clone, in a sea of WoW Clones.

2.  Limited PvP:  Heavily instanced based.  See my complaints about instanced vs old school open world PvP in one of my earlier posts.  The developers by design relegated PvP into a tiny, empty shoebox and stuffed it under the bed to be forgotten about.

3.  Excessive Single Player Focus:  Come on, NPCs that can fill out your party and craft gear for you too?  SWTOR continues the trend of destroying completely community interdependency and cohesiveness.  I say again, SWTOR is a SPRPG that requires an internet connection, nothing more.

4.  Lack of things to do outside combat.  Very plain and simple.

5.  Lastly, despite the time and outrageous amount of money SWTOR received for development, the only thing that positively stands out with the game is... voiceovers.  Yes, voiceovers, and lots of them.  Seriously?!?  After all that time and money, the only thing that stands out is voiceovers?  Instead of text telling you to skin 10 Jawas, a voice actor tells you to skin 10 Jawas?

 

How can SWTOR not be the poster child for what's wrong with MMORPGs?  You have developers with the name "BioWare," have ample time, and have the cash that 99% of other developers can only dream of getting, have the fabled "Star Wars" IP, and the end result is... SWTOR.

This. This. This.

Another thing that is annoying about SWTOR is the extreme typecasting.

Example: Every Smuggler must look and act just like Han Solo. It's just cheesy ;/

Originally posted by precious328

Originally posted by Warmaker

Back to me being more pertaining to the topic.

SWTOR is the primary, most high profile whipping boy for what's wrong with the MMORPG genre.  The answers are blatantly easy.

1.  Despite BioWare being one of the most popular developers in any game genre around, for all their reputation, they fear straying away from all the things WoW has done.  So... another WoW Clone, in a sea of WoW Clones.

2.  Limited PvP:  Heavily instanced based.  See my complaints about instanced vs old school open world PvP in one of my earlier posts.  The developers by design relegated PvP into a tiny, empty shoebox and stuffed it under the bed to be forgotten about.

3.  Excessive Single Player Focus:  Come on, NPCs that can fill out your party and craft gear for you too?  SWTOR continues the trend of destroying completely community interdependency and cohesiveness.  I say again, SWTOR is a SPRPG that requires an internet connection, nothing more.

4.  Lack of things to do outside combat.  Very plain and simple.

5.  Lastly, despite the time and outrageous amount of money SWTOR received for development, the only thing that positively stands out with the game is... voiceovers.  Yes, voiceovers, and lots of them.  Seriously?!?  After all that time and money, the only thing that stands out is voiceovers?  Instead of text telling you to skin 10 Jawas, a voice actor tells you to skin 10 Jawas?

 

How can SWTOR not be the poster child for what's wrong with MMORPGs?  You have developers with the name "BioWare," have ample time, and have the cash that 99% of other developers can only dream of getting, have the fabled "Star Wars" IP, and the end result is... SWTOR.

This. This. This.

Another thing that is annoying about SWTOR is the extreme typecasting.

Example: Every Smuggler must look and act just like Han Solo. It's just cheesy ;/

I would like to add that once the story ends there is little in the way of keeping me. Due to feeling like the game is over. In fact I never want to see story in an MMORPG again. Not as a main focus. I should be able to make my own story. THE PLAYERS SHOULD HAVE THE FREEDOM in an MMO to make thier own stories. Well in any game I want to pay a sub for...

Plus reasons 1, 2, and 4 lead to nothing wanting me to retain a subscription.

Agree with this is. SWTOR should be MISTER WHIPPING BOY.

Originally posted by stayontarget

Well the way I see it is SWG was buggy as hell yet people still played it,  kinda like SW:Tor in that regard.  People like the damnedest things.

SWG was popular before the MMO genre took off. WoW, however, set a huge financial precedent after just a few years post-launch. The profit they generated was toxic. LA / SOE wanted those number$ for SWG, so they had revamped the entire game to appeal to a more massive and less complex audience.

SWG-Sandbox didn't fail; SWG-Theme Park did.

Originally posted by Brenelael

This is exactly why I've given up on the genre for now. I like the journey more than the destination... always have. In new games it seems the journey 9 times out of 10 is a very narrow corridor funneling all players toward the end game. I couldn't give a rats ass about 'end game'. I'm hoping that ArcheAge coming from an Asian developer with a lot of sandbox elements will break this trend but I'm not holding my breath either. Lineage II was the last game I played that put the journey first but even that has been highly sped up with their F2P conversion. Hopefully the creator of the original Lineage and Lineage II Jake Song can recapture what I miss about MMOs with his new project ArcheAge.

 

Bren

The only games these days that provide anything nearing soem longevity are MUDs with small communities of 60-100 people. A lot more enjoyable than the trash dished up these days .... If you wnat an interesting read go look up "Citadel of Sorcery".

Their main aim is to re-introduce a challenging Quest based game; With it's roots based around developing charachters; The game has no endgame but has god like beings in the game from day one enter their lands and you are dead. Something that if they deliver should revolutionise the genre and provide some of us with a real game to play with content that is always unique with true charachter histories woven into every quest you ever get.

Look it up it will make you smile (just the concept will), the world is the size of the  Earth.

Originally posted by nilden

Originally posted by precious328

Originally posted by Warmaker

Back to me being more pertaining to the topic.

SWTOR is the primary, most high profile whipping boy for what's wrong with the MMORPG genre.  The answers are blatantly easy.

1.  Despite BioWare being one of the most popular developers in any game genre around, for all their reputation, they fear straying away from all the things WoW has done.  So... another WoW Clone, in a sea of WoW Clones.

2.  Limited PvP:  Heavily instanced based.  See my complaints about instanced vs old school open world PvP in one of my earlier posts.  The developers by design relegated PvP into a tiny, empty shoebox and stuffed it under the bed to be forgotten about.

3.  Excessive Single Player Focus:  Come on, NPCs that can fill out your party and craft gear for you too?  SWTOR continues the trend of destroying completely community interdependency and cohesiveness.  I say again, SWTOR is a SPRPG that requires an internet connection, nothing more.

4.  Lack of things to do outside combat.  Very plain and simple.

5.  Lastly, despite the time and outrageous amount of money SWTOR received for development, the only thing that positively stands out with the game is... voiceovers.  Yes, voiceovers, and lots of them.  Seriously?!?  After all that time and money, the only thing that stands out is voiceovers?  Instead of text telling you to skin 10 Jawas, a voice actor tells you to skin 10 Jawas?

 

How can SWTOR not be the poster child for what's wrong with MMORPGs?  You have developers with the name "BioWare," have ample time, and have the cash that 99% of other developers can only dream of getting, have the fabled "Star Wars" IP, and the end result is... SWTOR.

This. This. This.

Another thing that is annoying about SWTOR is the extreme typecasting.

Example: Every Smuggler must look and act just like Han Solo. It's just cheesy ;/

I would like to add that once the story ends there is little in the way of keeping me. Due to feeling like the game is over. In fact I never want to see story in an MMORPG again. Not as a main focus. I should be able to make my own story. THE PLAYERS SHOULD HAVE THE FREEDOM in an MMO to make thier own stories. Well in any game I want to pay a sub for...

Plus reasons 1, 2, and 4 lead to nothing wanting me to retain a subscription.

Agree with this is. SWTOR should be MISTER WHIPPING BOY.

I agree. I never felt like "me" in SWTOR.  It felt like a damn movie.

If a game must have questing, then it should be non-personal.

Originally posted by wormywyrm

Originally posted by precious328

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by precious328

Like I said before, if there is ever a AAA-funded sandbox MMO, the genre will change for the better.

And when I say sandbox, I'm not refering to these hardcore first-person pov games like Mortal Online. I'm talking about a game that is loaded with both content and player-driven content.

SWG... Also had the SW name and was still a failure in the eyes of the very devs who created it.

I think what you typed is absolutly BS the reason being that I once tried to get about 5 of my non mmo playing gamer friends into MMOs, I gave them all trial invites. They played for about a month n a half each and then unsubbed, Their reason? that there was too much crap to do and the game was too big. The Irony to it is they absoluty adore SKYRIM.

It's funny that you bring up SWG, because the game failed when it was revamped into a Theme Park. Regardless, old SWG is still one of the most talked about and missed MMOs to have ever been created.

As for your friends quitting because the game was too "complex", then your friends represent the problem in the genre - hold me hand and guide me type players who want everything as easy as possible.

+1!!

To precious328:

Also, SWG was not a failure in the eyes of the devs who made it (Raph Koster has said the opposite), nor was it a financial failure.  It probably could have been even more financially successful if not pushed to release sooner than it was ready.  Also it had a terrible marking campaign compared to AAA MMOs today.

Also, I would hang out with other friends I think these ones might have a bad influence on you.

Absolutely love excuses. SWG was revamped twice...TWICE. 

I never played NGE, but the CU, and remember searching the forums trying not to find a server full of lots with empty houses. 

Honesly, it's sad to say, but the NGE kept that game around longer than it was suppose to be. People want a AAA game of this style, without the AAA number of players to play it....

Originally posted by bossalinie

Originally posted by wormywyrm

Originally posted by precious328

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by precious328

Like I said before, if there is ever a AAA-funded sandbox MMO, the genre will change for the better.

And when I say sandbox, I'm not refering to these hardcore first-person pov games like Mortal Online. I'm talking about a game that is loaded with both content and player-driven content.

SWG... Also had the SW name and was still a failure in the eyes of the very devs who created it.

I think what you typed is absolutly BS the reason being that I once tried to get about 5 of my non mmo playing gamer friends into MMOs, I gave them all trial invites. They played for about a month n a half each and then unsubbed, Their reason? that there was too much crap to do and the game was too big. The Irony to it is they absoluty adore SKYRIM.

It's funny that you bring up SWG, because the game failed when it was revamped into a Theme Park. Regardless, old SWG is still one of the most talked about and missed MMOs to have ever been created.

As for your friends quitting because the game was too "complex", then your friends represent the problem in the genre - hold me hand and guide me type players who want everything as easy as possible.

+1!!

To precious328:

Also, SWG was not a failure in the eyes of the devs who made it (Raph Koster has said the opposite), nor was it a financial failure.  It probably could have been even more financially successful if not pushed to release sooner than it was ready.  Also it had a terrible marking campaign compared to AAA MMOs today.

Also, I would hang out with other friends I think these ones might have a bad influence on you.

Absolutely love excuses. SWG was revamped twice...TWICE. 

I never played NGE, but the CU, and remember searching the forums trying not to find a server full of lots with empty houses. 

Honesly, it's sad to say, but the NGE kept that game around longer than it was suppose to be. People want a AAA game of this style, without the AAA number of players to play it....

It wasn't revamped twice. lol. They just changed the combat.

The NGE was a COMPLETE REHASH of almost every aspect of the game. Once the game was dumbed to the point where it was just stupid, people started leaving.

Moreover, SWG had many players during the non-NGE days. They have even said this.

Originally posted by bossalinie

Absolutely love excuses. SWG was revamped twice...TWICE. 

I never played NGE, but the CU, and remember searching the forums trying not to find a server full of lots with empty houses. 

Honesly, it's sad to say, but the NGE kept that game around longer than it was suppose to be. People want a AAA game of this style, without the AAA number of players to play it....

This post confuses me, what are you saying exactly?  That NGE improved SWG and and increased the # players playing it?  Because even smed has admitted since then that it was a huge mistake, and the statistics show that population decreased dramatically after NGE.  So I am not even sure what you are arguing here.

Since SWG sucked so bad I figured it would be blown away in every area by SWTOR. Compare space, crafting, housing, pvp, mounts and UI. SWG is the clear winner in every case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnJv026BsbU Jump to Lightspeed

The 10 species available to players include: Human, Twi'lek, Zabrak, Wookiee, Trandoshan, Rodian, Mon Calamari, Bothan, Sullustan and Ithorian.

A range of playable species are available for the player to choose from, including Human, Chiss, Cyborg, Miraluka, Mirialan. Rattataki, Sith Pureblood, Twi'lek, and Zabrak.

Now mind you SWG sucked so bad that jump was only an emote and I mean come on how does SWTOR not do those better?

http://youtu.be/wBw3lkiXxRs

Originally posted by nilden

Since SWG sucked so bad I figured it would be blown away in every area by SWTOR. Compare space, crafting, housing, pvp, mounts and UI. SWG is the clear winner in every case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnJv026BsbU Jump to Lightspeed

The 10 species available to players include: Human, Twi'lek, Zabrak, Wookiee, Trandoshan, Rodian, Mon Calamari, Bothan, Sullustan and Ithorian.

A range of playable species are available for the player to choose from, including Human, Chiss, Cyborg, Miraluka, Mirialan. Rattataki, Sith Pureblood, Twi'lek, and Zabrak.

Now mind you SWG sucked so bad that jump was only an emote and I mean come on how does SWTOR not do those better?

 

Space combat they are working on. Crafting is subjective personally I like TORs better, Houses became a ghost town from what I hear in SWG, SWG had PvP?, SWTOR has mounts I don't see what your getting and and they are adding UI customizatoin in 1.2. As for spieces in SWG over 70% of the player base played Zabrak TWi'lek and human anyway there is also room for improvement in TOR.

So once (or rather if) they add everything they  said they  woudl the only thing that SWG will have over TOR is housing.

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by nilden

Since SWG sucked so bad I figured it would be blown away in every area by SWTOR. Compare space, crafting, housing, pvp, mounts and UI. SWG is the clear winner in every case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnJv026BsbU Jump to Lightspeed

The 10 species available to players include: Human, Twi'lek, Zabrak, Wookiee, Trandoshan, Rodian, Mon Calamari, Bothan, Sullustan and Ithorian.

A range of playable species are available for the player to choose from, including Human, Chiss, Cyborg, Miraluka, Mirialan. Rattataki, Sith Pureblood, Twi'lek, and Zabrak.

Now mind you SWG sucked so bad that jump was only an emote and I mean come on how does SWTOR not do those better?

 

Crafting is subjective personally I like TORs better,

Again, stop lying to yourself, nobody believes that.

Not even you.

Space combat is a joke and it will always be a joke, it's a rail shooter.

Now somehow housing is bad.

Come on..., just... come on, lol.

http://youtu.be/eC8ZqqHbDp0

Some mounts, missing dewbacks, taun tauns and normal speeders but you get the idea. Oh and you could add auction house as well.

Originally posted by nilden

http://youtu.be/eC8ZqqHbDp0

Some mounts, missing dewbacks, taun tauns and normal speeders but you get the idea.

1. What's with all the janky fake youtube links?

2. Do you expect a game that's been out for 1 month to have more content than SWG?  Really?

You're even comparing TOR with content that specifically came in SWG expansions...

Originally posted by spaceport

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by nilden

Since SWG sucked so bad I figured it would be blown away in every area by SWTOR. Compare space, crafting, housing, pvp, mounts and UI. SWG is the clear winner in every case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnJv026BsbU Jump to Lightspeed

The 10 species available to players include: Human, Twi'lek, Zabrak, Wookiee, Trandoshan, Rodian, Mon Calamari, Bothan, Sullustan and Ithorian.

A range of playable species are available for the player to choose from, including Human, Chiss, Cyborg, Miraluka, Mirialan. Rattataki, Sith Pureblood, Twi'lek, and Zabrak.

Now mind you SWG sucked so bad that jump was only an emote and I mean come on how does SWTOR not do those better?

 

Crafting is subjective personally I like TORs better,

Again, stop lying to yourself, nobody believes that.

Not even you.

Space combat is a joke and it will always be a joke, it's a rail shooter.

Now somehow housing is bad.

Come on..., just... come on, lol.

Your way or the highway, right?

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by nilden

http://youtu.be/eC8ZqqHbDp0

Some mounts, missing dewbacks, taun tauns and normal speeders but you get the idea.

1. What's with all the janky fake youtube links?

2. Do you expect a game that's been out for 1 month to have more content than SWG?  Really?

You're even comparing TOR with content that specifically came in SWG expansions...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC8ZqqHbDp0

Did that not work for you? It's starts off with a Varactryl. Here try this site for all of them Bantha was a good one too.

http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Mounts

No your right I should have expected it to have far less than SWG. Come on they shut down SWG for this. They had this game to look at, how many years and how much money. Yea lets make it have far less. Oh wait I'm being sarcastic. Bloody right I expected it to be better and have more.

Yeah, it was like a movie.  The end-game was like the credits, and now I feel like I'm sitting in an empty theater with a box of popcorn staring at a blank screen waiting for the next showing (xpac) of the same movie again.

Originally posted by nilden

Originally posted by Axehilt
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC8ZqqHbDp0

Did that not work for you? It's starts off with a Varactryl. Here try this site for all of them Bantha was a good one too.

http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Mounts

No your right I should have expected it to have far less than SWG. Come on they shut down SWG for this. They had this game to look at, how many years and how much money. Yea lets make it have far less. Oh wait I'm being sarcastic. Bloody right I expected it to be better and have more.

And yet SWTOR has probably made more money already than SWG ever did (just a guess tho). Good move for LucasArts to drop support for SWG. Probably made you buy SWTOR too.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by nilden

Originally posted by Axehilt
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC8ZqqHbDp0

Did that not work for you? It's starts off with a Varactryl. Here try this site for all of them Bantha was a good one too.

http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Mounts

No your right I should have expected it to have far less than SWG. Come on they shut down SWG for this. They had this game to look at, how many years and how much money. Yea lets make it have far less. Oh wait I'm being sarcastic. Bloody right I expected it to be better and have more.

And yet SWTOR has probably made more money already than SWG ever did (just a guess tho). Good move for LucasArts to drop support for SWG. Probably made you buy SWTOR too.

Yes it did and I quit when I hit 50 and played pre NGE for a year, so what game did I give them more money for? Good point tho. I guess all those features that SWG did better don't mean crap since SWTOR is rolling in box sales.