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Originally posted by Distopia

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Originally posted by Cameo3
 

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Originally posted by Distopia

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Originally posted by Cameo3
I believe there should be some sort of parental control feature or in game toggle. That toggle makes your game gay or not gay. A simple rinse and release mentality.
 

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You know I usually stay out of RL view-point topics like this, but I have to ask, if you can't hide it from them in real life, what difference does it make in a video game? They're going to be exposed to it regardless, sheltering helps nothing, it only deepens the issues of discrimination, and ignorance.

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< control.>

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Exactly...

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Yep. I pay the game to control my character. Next.

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by TheFirst109

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by Zuuz

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by atticusbc

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by Zuuz

Originally posted by inzane3

Homosexuality should just be kept out of the game. Why piss of a group of religious people and that includes: Christian, Jews and Muslims. It's only going to lead to loss of revenue...

 

You want to engage in gay acts go ahead, it's your private choice, but PLEASE keep it out of games!

Firstly, I don't think we should be too worried about those groups of religious people being pissed off, as there is very little substance to their thoughts. There are very few serious arguments against homosexuality and unless these groups come up with a good one I don't think the mere fact that they are 'pissed off' warrants any concern with their feelings.

Just thousands of years of human history and what "marriage" is defined as, and it is not a right.

dude, people have been having gay sex forever. so have other species as a matter of fact.

the way i see it is one group is going to get p.o.ed in this little drama: the religious types because it's in the game, or the gay rights types if it's not. simple. bioware has said they're going to put it in though so if you want wail and gnash your teeth, whatever. that's your right. just don't go thinking that it's something weird that humans came up with just now to piss you off. 'cause it's not.

gay sex = same sex marriage........................uh ok, you miss the point and the boat it seems.

Contrary to what you may think, marriage wasn't somehow 'invented' by christians. A marriage is a social or legal union in whatever shape, differing from culture to culture. It is therefore very directly linked with the beliefs of these cultures. To say that marriage is simply defined as being a union between man and woman is being blind to cultural history.

List 5 cultures that define marriage as NOT man + woman.

 

/waiting

I can double your request and name ten countries in the world where marriage is defined as a union between two consenting adults regardless of whether they be man + woman, man + man, or woman + woman:

 Argentina, Belgium, Canada, Iceland, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, South Africa, and Sweden

Please stop trying to make all of America look bad with your continued ignorance. Not everyone lives in a bubble like you seem to. This may come as a shock to you, but society progresses over time to better itself. It may seem slow in certain parts of the world, and different cultures will take time to catch up to others, but progress is happening. You cannot stop it, and it will not be stopped. Ancient Greece was far ahead of it's time in societal norms, and it has taken us a long time to recover from the setbacks of religion to get back to where we used to be. 

Progress is being made in all forms. Marriage used to be defined as to where a man of one race couldn't marry a woman of another race. Things change, we get better as a culture. The Catholic Church locked away our greatest scientists for discovering that the Earth does indeed revolve around the Sun, contrary to what their faith proclaimed at the time. Things change, we get better as a culture. Eventually the United States will nationally allow same sex marriage, even if there are people who would not see it so. A majority can't deny the rights of the minority forever.

So since 2001 10 countries in the entire recorded human history of thousands of years and hundreds of generations have same sex marriage.  Seems like that is very little "progress".

Also just stop the personal attacks, you may not agree with my (the majorities) point of view but that is not a reason for them.

Not such thing as "gay rights"

We have to start somewhere right? And you asked for only 5 so your number was pretty low to begin with, the fact that you thought someone couldn't find 5 shows how sheltered you truly are. 

Trust me if you think I'm attacking you, then it's a good thing you aren't gay because you wouldn't have the backbone to go through what many gay youth go through in high school daily. 

As for gay rights, it's your personal opinion that gays don't have rights and I respect your right to disagree with me. People thought blacks didn't have rights too, but no one remembers what that was like cause it's in the past, just like the issue of gay rights will be at some point in the future.

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Originally posted by Vorthanion

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Originally posted by Cameo3
 

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Originally posted by Vorthanion
I despise religion for many more reasons than their hatred towards homosexuality.  As far as I'm concerned, there are two roots to all evil, greed and religion.  These two roots can be found in just about every atrocious act ever committed by mankind.

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Greed and religion eh? So mirror effect means you are a poor kid who's gay?

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Hey, look back throughout history, the proof is in the pudding.  Your snide remarks are beside the point.

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Looking back throughout history is a nice thing you use as a security blanket to fuel your anger about being poor and getting attacked for being gay.

Originally posted by Cameo3

 

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Originally posted by Vorthanion
I despise religion for many more reasons than their hatred towards homosexuality.  As far as I'm concerned, there are two roots to all evil, greed and religion.  These two roots can be found in just about every atrocious act ever committed by mankind.

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Greed and religion eh? So mirror effect means you are a poor kid who's gay?

i don't really want to get involved in your little subplot, but.... what? since when does being gay make you unable to be religious? and since when does being poor make you unable to be greedy? people come in all shapes and sizes. it's best you stop being so xenophobic and reconcile yourself to that fact.

EDIT: oh wait. are you just trolling? i can't tell if you're being serious, or not.

Originally posted by Cameo3

 

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Originally posted by Vorthanion

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Originally posted by Cameo3
 

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Originally posted by Vorthanion
I despise religion for many more reasons than their hatred towards homosexuality.  As far as I'm concerned, there are two roots to all evil, greed and religion.  These two roots can be found in just about every atrocious act ever committed by mankind.

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Greed and religion eh? So mirror effect means you are a poor kid who's gay?

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Hey, look back throughout history, the proof is in the pudding.  Your snide remarks are beside the point.

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Looking back throughout history is a nice thing you use as a security blanket to fuel your anger about being poor and getting attacked for being gay.

Now this ^^ is a personal attack. Someone stating facts about an issue and another person just straight up bashing someone lol.

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

snip

So since 2001 10 countries in the entire recorded human history of thousands of years and hundreds of generations have same sex marriage.  Seems like that is very little "progress".

Also just stop the personal attacks, you may not agree with my (the majorities) point of view but that is not a reason for them.

Not such thing as "gay rights"

Really?

A March 2011 survey of 1005 adults by ABC News and the Washington Post found that, for the first time, the majority of Americans favor same-sex marriage. 53 percent of those polled supported same-sex marriage while 44 percent remained opposed; support was highest among younger Americans and lower among conservatives, Republicans, and evangelicals. Pollster Gary Langster describes this as a "milestone result that caps a dramatic, long-term shift in public attitudes". From a low of 32 percent in a 2004 survey of registered voters, support for same-sex marriage has grown to 53 percent today. Forty-four percent are opposed, down 18 points from that 2004 survey.^[3][15]

Gay rights = equal rights

The right to marry along with the financial benefits of married couples

The right to decide what happens to property after death of spouse

The right to decide spouses medical treatment in the case of spouse incapacitation

There are also various states in the US as well as some religious groups that accept gays and gay marriage. So yes... progress against a tradition that has been wrong for so long does take some time. 

Hey, you types are the first ones that went to the extremes, I just played along. Pied Piper....

Originally posted by Cameo3

 

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< control.>

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Exactly...

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Yep. I pay the game to control my character. Next.

The choice of control is there, in reference to controlling your character, but that's not the form of "control" I was highlighting. If you'd like to know more about the type of "control" I was referring to, we can take this to the off-topic forum...

It should be self explanatory though considering my original post...

http://www.gallup.com/poll/118378/Majority-Americans-Continue-Oppose-Gay-Marriage.aspx

Among major demographic or attitudinal subgroups, self-identified liberals show the greatest support for legal gay marriage at 75% in the May 7-10 poll. By contrast, only 19% of conservatives think same-sex marriages should be legally valid.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/117328/Marriage.aspx
2011 May 5-8 53% Morally Acceptable 45% Morally Unacceptable 3% No opinion

Originally posted by illorion

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

snip

So since 2001 10 countries in the entire recorded human history of thousands of years and hundreds of generations have same sex marriage.  Seems like that is very little "progress".

Also just stop the personal attacks, you may not agree with my (the majorities) point of view but that is not a reason for them.

Not such thing as "gay rights"

Really?

A March 2011 survey of 1005 adults by ABC News and the Washington Post found that, for the first time, the majority of Americans favor same-sex marriage. 53 percent of those polled supported same-sex marriage while 44 percent remained opposed; support was highest among younger Americans and lower among conservatives, Republicans, and evangelicals. Pollster Gary Langster describes this as a "milestone result that caps a dramatic, long-term shift in public attitudes". From a low of 32 percent in a 2004 survey of registered voters, support for same-sex marriage has grown to 53 percent today. Forty-four percent are opposed, down 18 points from that 2004 survey.^[3][15]

Gay rights = equal rights

The right to marry along with the financial benefits of married couples

The right to decide what happens to property after death of spouse

The right to decide spouses medical treatment in the case of spouse incapacitation

There are also various states in the US as well as some religious groups that accept gays and gay marriage. So yes... progress against a tradition that has been wrong for so long does take some time. 

 

So your quoting left wing "polls" to support a left wing viewpoint to support same sex marriage in a game.

That there is the problem which we will agree to disagree.

/leaving thread

Originally posted by illorion

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

snip

So since 2001 10 countries in the entire recorded human history of thousands of years and hundreds of generations have same sex marriage.  Seems like that is very little "progress".

Also just stop the personal attacks, you may not agree with my (the majorities) point of view but that is not a reason for them.

Not such thing as "gay rights"

Really?

A March 2011 survey of 1005 adults by ABC News and the Washington Post found that, for the first time, the majority of Americans favor same-sex marriage. 53 percent of those polled supported same-sex marriage while 44 percent remained opposed; support was highest among younger Americans and lower among conservatives, Republicans, and evangelicals. Pollster Gary Langster describes this as a "milestone result that caps a dramatic, long-term shift in public attitudes". From a low of 32 percent in a 2004 survey of registered voters, support for same-sex marriage has grown to 53 percent today. Forty-four percent are opposed, down 18 points from that 2004 survey.^[3][15]

Gay rights = equal rights

The right to marry along with the financial benefits of married couples

The right to decide what happens to property after death of spouse

The right to decide spouses medical treatment in the case of spouse incapacitation

There are also various states in the US as well as some religious groups that accept gays and gay marriage. So yes... progress against a tradition that has been wrong for so long does take some time. 

 

This article also highlights the main point I was trying to make. Support for gays/lesbians is extremely high among youth when compared to older generations. I see no reason in the future that my current generation (those ranging from 18-30) will deny homosexuals the constitutional right to marriage. AND if the Republicans want to remain a relevant party down the road, they are going to need to start accepting that college-going youth as a majority won't tolerate discrimination.

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by TheFirst109

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by Zuuz

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by atticusbc

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by Zuuz

Originally posted by inzane3

Homosexuality should just be kept out of the game. Why piss of a group of religious people and that includes: Christian, Jews and Muslims. It's only going to lead to loss of revenue...

 

You want to engage in gay acts go ahead, it's your private choice, but PLEASE keep it out of games!

Firstly, I don't think we should be too worried about those groups of religious people being pissed off, as there is very little substance to their thoughts. There are very few serious arguments against homosexuality and unless these groups come up with a good one I don't think the mere fact that they are 'pissed off' warrants any concern with their feelings.

Just thousands of years of human history and what "marriage" is defined as, and it is not a right.

dude, people have been having gay sex forever. so have other species as a matter of fact.

the way i see it is one group is going to get p.o.ed in this little drama: the religious types because it's in the game, or the gay rights types if it's not. simple. bioware has said they're going to put it in though so if you want wail and gnash your teeth, whatever. that's your right. just don't go thinking that it's something weird that humans came up with just now to piss you off. 'cause it's not.

gay sex = same sex marriage........................uh ok, you miss the point and the boat it seems.

Contrary to what you may think, marriage wasn't somehow 'invented' by christians. A marriage is a social or legal union in whatever shape, differing from culture to culture. It is therefore very directly linked with the beliefs of these cultures. To say that marriage is simply defined as being a union between man and woman is being blind to cultural history.

List 5 cultures that define marriage as NOT man + woman.

 

/waiting

I can double your request and name ten countries in the world where marriage is defined as a union between two consenting adults regardless of whether they be man + woman, man + man, or woman + woman:

 Argentina, Belgium, Canada, Iceland, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, South Africa, and Sweden

Please stop trying to make all of America look bad with your continued ignorance. Not everyone lives in a bubble like you seem to. This may come as a shock to you, but society progresses over time to better itself. It may seem slow in certain parts of the world, and different cultures will take time to catch up to others, but progress is happening. You cannot stop it, and it will not be stopped. Ancient Greece was far ahead of it's time in societal norms, and it has taken us a long time to recover from the setbacks of religion to get back to where we used to be. 

Progress is being made in all forms. Marriage used to be defined as to where a man of one race couldn't marry a woman of another race. Things change, we get better as a culture. The Catholic Church locked away our greatest scientists for discovering that the Earth does indeed revolve around the Sun, contrary to what their faith proclaimed at the time. Things change, we get better as a culture. Eventually the United States will nationally allow same sex marriage, even if there are people who would not see it so. A majority can't deny the rights of the minority forever.

So since 2001 10 countries in the entire recorded human history of thousands of years and hundreds of generations have same sex marriage.  Seems like that is very little "progress".

Also just stop the personal attacks, you may not agree with my (the majorities) point of view but that is not a reason for them.

Not such thing as "gay rights"

Um you're first sentence doesn't make sense ? "So since 2001....thousands of years and hundreds of generations" you contradict yourself.

And actually marriage is a fairly new social construct..please don't be so dumb as to believe the marriage we have now is the same as unions in the past. Christian marriage has not been around nearly as long as you may think, nor have the traditions. Hell even the white wedding dress is incredibly recent.

As far as the majority ? At least here in the states the majority supports gay marriage. There's plenty of polls to back that up. Public law does not always represent public opinion.

I don't understand how in reality people can be upset over homosexuality..something that has been part of human culture, and a very large part, since recorded history.

That goes doubly so for making it an option in a damn video game. It's not like Bioware forces you to have a homosexual relationship..or a hetero one for that matter..whats the big deal ?

Keep your personal life (and your personal religious beliefs) out of main stream games and society.  We can't function as a society if there is a constant threat to our collective freedom.  Religious convictions are a choice, please choose to do it away from anyone it might harm... just like smoking.

Originally posted by Cameo3

http://www.gallup.com/poll/118378/Majority-Americans-Continue-Oppose-Gay-Marriage.aspx

Among major demographic or attitudinal subgroups, self-identified liberals show the greatest support for legal gay marriage at 75% in the May 7-10 poll. By contrast, only 19% of conservatives think same-sex marriages should be legally valid.

Yeah.... how about a more recent poll than the one I posted at least? 

Originally posted by Incomparable

Originally posted by Zuuz

Originally posted by Incomparable

Originally posted by inzane3

Homosexuality should just be kept out of the game. Why piss of a group of religious people and that includes: Christian, Jews and Muslims. It's only going to lead to loss of revenue...

 

You want to engage in gay acts go ahead, it's your private choice, but PLEASE keep it out of games!

Its not about religion. Religion is only important or valid to human based laws or deicions when it is valid. By saying religion is important for that decision you are saying some super natural power said so, and there is no need for man made laws or logic.

Just to put into perspective, there are man made laws protecting kids against sexual exploitation. So it goes with the same logic, that exposing kids to mature themes they are no accustomed to will make them more open minded to ideas conflicting with what coulod be thier identity while they are still developing.

Do kids have to figure out if they are gay at a young age?

I could name a few more disturbing themes in swtor for kids than sexuality, it seems more important to ask if that is warranted if you say kids are so easily influenced by them. 

Also, you seem to think that homosexuality is just an idea, and when that idea is being cultivated enough you somehow will act accordingly. This is the exact same premise some (christian) psychiatrists use when they believe they can 'cure' people from homosexuality, and time and time again that shows to be utter nonsense 

Kids learn about the real conqeunces of pain and suffering that they know that is not right So that is a different issue. However the idea of sex is not easy to restrict to a kid willing to try it out when threre is no physical harm involved, and they learn it is alright to try out from the media/soceity. So one is obviously wrong, while the other has not been experimented most likely while not being a harmful actiivity other than of course a kid doing it and ruining what other consider destroying their youthfulness.

Come on that is BS. Kids experiment sexually more than hitting someone in face with a sword. What is more dangerous for kids? exposing them to violence and killings or same sex?

Just your best guess, do you think that allowing two people of the same sex to legally marry will change our society for -- [ROTATED: the better, will it have no effect, or will it change our society for the worse]?

2009 May 7-10 13% Better 36% No Effect 48% Worse 2% No Opinion

http://www.gallup.com/poll/117328/Marriage.aspx

Locking the thread temporarily so we can go through it. If and when we reopen it, I'll post again.

Actually, this won't be reopened.