And besides, the content while leveling up is experienced to the full with character six and seven.

Your whole article is dated, your game style is dated, your arguments are dated.

You need to readjust your whole attitude.

We live in the 21 century now. Not the stone age.

I would say that I terribly disagree with everything you write.

Very good article. I agree 100%. Dont listen too much to the locusts. Let us digest the games slowly!!

Originally posted by DarthRahlik

And besides, the content while leveling up is experienced to the full with character six and seven.

Your whole article is dated, your game style is dated, your arguments are dated.

You need to readjust your whole attitude.

 

We live in the 21 century now. Not the stone age.

I would say that I terribly disagree with everything you write.

 

You have as much right to seek any kind of game you like.

The OP and those that are like mind ALSO have as much right to play any kind of game they wish too, even if it is according to you "dated".

It would be wise for you to remember that.

As for myself, my thoughts about the OP's topic are...

I encourage Developers to create MMOs that are as much a Journey as they are a Destination...

I encourage Developers to create MMOs that are either mainly PvE *OR mainly PvP, but not both... as both camps can not live together and that has been proven many many times... pick one or the other....

I encourage Developers to create MMOs that offer Long term Value for the price, for a MMO is best for a Publisher and the customers when it's a long term product to begin with...

I encourage Developers to create MMOs *FOR* MMO Players, not for Console Gamers or FPS Players... Don't mix Genres or disappointment will arise as it does in the PvE vs. PvP debate....

If Developers would attempt to meet these four goals much of the disappointment that many People have voiced in this thread and others would be answered and solved, and many happy and paying MMO Customers would be the result.

Those MMO Players that would disagree are welcome to. That is part of what makes the MMO Genre great. However "Change" just for the sake of "Change" itself or out of bordom is not progress, it's costly and unsatisfying distraction and waste. No one wins when new approaches are tried out in MMO gaming that are obviously completely off base with the People that make up the base and core of the Genre itself.... the Players... all of them the young and the old and everyone inbetween.

Thank you.

With gaming as with all aspects of life (real,lived life) people more and more want NOW and instant gratification. If its easy (generally not necessarily hand me the golden ring) they feel good. If it become a ''grind" as it used to be in the olden days  it becomes less likely people will continue to play. NOW. NOW. NOW. Part of this is the new lifestyle, fast, high-speed, on the go busy world. Back in the day only  'geeks' played. Now the average household has a gamer squirreled away somewhere. Even old grannies are doing it...immediate rewards = continuing subscribers, which is the lifeblood of games.

Sometimes though, things can be over done and I think SWToR may be guilty of this. I don't regret my paying sub. I am however disappointed that I paid for multiple months. (I tend to throw $$ at games and get disappointed so another $50 or so wont matter much in the long run but still I wish I hadn't)

I suppose I had hoped SWToR would be the return of that 'cherry high' that  I have found lacking in  many MMOs over the last few years. I like it but I don't know if it will be the game to hold me (on a daily basis say) for the next year+.  Each day I think this is less and less likely.

I'm almost valor rank 55 and I have no idea what will I do when I'll get all Battlemaster gear. I'm not really that much into raiding and PvE part of the "end game" and currenly PvP has many bugs, imbalances and is "poor" in content. The game as a whole is missing at least a year worth of development time.

Cheers.

I completely agree with the author! As I was blowing through SWTOR content, I often felt the levelling was too fast; in fact if I could have had my character suffere a permanent xp penalty, I would have. One planet I had to skip completely, aside from the class quest, because by the time I arrived I had already pretty much levelled past it.

Bioware's decision to add so much end content [in the way of flashpoints, ops and repeatable quests] was interesting, but I would rather have had a slower xp curve, and done these things prior to level 50, rather than hanging around like a 21 year old who still parties with high school kids.

When you've reached max level, it should mean the game has ended, and it's time to start an alt.

great read!!

I really wish that somebody from BW/EA read this article and learn something.... By letting us reach level cap in a week or less they are indeed screwing all the lvl 1-49 content they worked so hard to provide us and spent so many millions of dollars on it. It is a total waste of content.

I think if they give us a slower level progression we all benefit from it. We get to enjoy the whole storyline / all quests / content at a parallel level as the areas we are in while the devs have even more time to work on new content for future updates. End game rushers are less than the rest of the playerbase so i have no idea why the devs (in general) cater more to those guys instead of the ones that provide theme more profit.... since thats what they are all after.

Originally posted by Digna

With gaming as with all aspects of life (real,lived life) people more and more want NOW and instant gratification. If its easy (generally not necessarily hand me the golden ring) they feel good. If it become a ''grind" as it used to be in the olden days  it becomes less likely people will continue to play. NOW. NOW. NOW. Part of this is the new lifestyle, fast, high-speed, on the go busy world. Back in the day only  'geeks' played. Now the average household has a gamer squirreled away somewhere. Even old grannies are doing it...immediate rewards = continuing subscribers, which is the lifeblood of games.

 

Sometimes though, things can be over done and I think SWToR may be guilty of this. I don't regret my paying sub. I am however disappointed that I paid for multiple months. (I tend to throw $$ at games and get disappointed so another $50 or so wont matter much in the long run but still I wish I hadn't)

I suppose I had hoped SWToR would be the return of that 'cherry high' that  I have found lacking in  many MMOs over the last few years. I like it but I don't know if it will be the game to hold me (on a daily basis say) for the next year+.  Each day I think this is less and less likely.

You just highlighted what I personally think is the number one problem in the MMO Genre right now...

As originally conceived (generally speaking) MMOs were not about NOW, NOW, NOW instat gratification, they were about a "journey and an adventure" and Time itself was an important component of the design equation.

I think of how MMOs were as akin to Odysseus and His Odyssey.... and grand adventure, a thrilling adventure... ALSO quite a few parts of that adventure royally sucked... but that was part of what made the final ending so great. You can't get that kind of an experience in a NOW,NOW instant gratification novel.

We have millions of People trying to take the MMOs and turn them from "Homer's Odyssey" into Pulp Fiction paperbacks. That is the biggest issue that needs fixing of all.

Originally posted by rojo6934

great read!!

I really wish that somebody from BW/EA read this article and learn something.... By letting us reach level cap in a week or less they are indeed screwing all the lvl 1-49 content they worked so hard to provide us and spent so many millions of dollars on it. It is a total waste of content.

I think if they give us a slower level progression we all benefit from it. We get to enjoy the whole storyline / all quests / content at a parallel level as the areas we are in while the devs have even more time to work on new content for future updates. End game rushers are less than the rest of the playerbase so i have no idea why the devs (in general) cater more to those guys instead of the ones that provide theme more profit.... since thats what they are all after.

I have been playing SWTOR and what has become very obvious to me is this:

SWTOR was designed to be fast leveling ON PURPOSE. Leveling was made fast to get Players to the content that Bioware believes is MOST important... lvl 50 PvP (#1) and Raiding (#2).

The voice acting and the grand storyline missions are just to help make the trip to level 50 much more entertaining as far as I can tell.

It also seems to me that Bioware thinks that the PvE world exists only for the sake of the story and the missions. I honestly don't think they ever considered that some of us would actually want to spend most of our time in the PvE world itself (e.g. areas of exhaustion in the middle of world maps where there is no geographic roadblocks).

Originally posted by Gardavsshade

I think of how MMOs were as akin to Odysseus and His Odyssey.... and grand adventure, a thrilling adventure... ALSO quite a few parts of that adventure royally sucked... but that was part of what made the final ending so great. You can't get that kind of an experience in a NOW,NOW instant gratification novel.

We have millions of People trying to take the MMOs and turn them from "Homer's Odyssey" into Pulp Fiction paperbacks. That is the biggest issue that needs fixing of all.

The problem with that example is that the Odyssey isn't that exciting. Of the 10 years he was gone, he spend 7 being stuck on a single island with as only company a nymph badly in love with him, but who he wasn't interested in. Another year was spend with Circe. The parties there of course were a fun experience, but I'm sure they became a grind after a few months. It also has lots of backtracking. The Odyssey is an epic story, but only because 8  years pass with just a few words. Actually playing through it would be a lot closer to the mmorpgs of old.

Originally posted by Gardavsshade

Originally posted by rojo6934

great read!!

I really wish that somebody from BW/EA read this article and learn something.... By letting us reach level cap in a week or less they are indeed screwing all the lvl 1-49 content they worked so hard to provide us and spent so many millions of dollars on it. It is a total waste of content.

I think if they give us a slower level progression we all benefit from it. We get to enjoy the whole storyline / all quests / content at a parallel level as the areas we are in while the devs have even more time to work on new content for future updates. End game rushers are less than the rest of the playerbase so i have no idea why the devs (in general) cater more to those guys instead of the ones that provide theme more profit.... since thats what they are all after.

I have been playing SWTOR and what has become very obvious to me is this:

SWTOR was designed to be fast leveling ON PURPOSE. Leveling was made fast to get Players to the content that Bioware believes is MOST important... lvl 50 PvP (#1) and Raiding (#2).

The voice acting and the grand storyline missions are just to help make the trip to level 50 much more entertaining as far as I can tell.

It also seems to me that Bioware thinks that the PvE world exists only for the sake of the story and the missions. I honestly don't think they ever considered that some of us would actually want to spend most of our time in the PvE world itself (e.g. areas of exhaustion in the middle of world maps where there is no geographic roadblocks).

 

Indeed,  and in my personal opinion thats their mistake. If they believe lvl 50 pvp and raiding is the most important aspect of Swtor then they should have spent more millions in that aspect instead of the journey from lvl 1-cap. I love their story and im trying to go as slow as i can (even rolling every class as alts) to get to know all storylines and their way towards lvl cap because im not fond of lvl 50 pvp and raiding every day rinse and repeat after i reach lvl cap.

Bah, blaming players for not being sophisticated enough to "take the time" to appreciate your game is as as dull and unimpressive as a film director defending his latest flop at the box office by blaming "the uncouth public."

Face it, devs. The players will play the game as it is made by YOU. There is only YOU to blame. The players are a simple bunch: they will play the game as it is. If it has glaring holes in balance they will "exploit it" because YOU made it possible and they are just playing the game to the best of their ability. Actually there is no such thing as "exploits" - there is only sloppy game design that makes possible effects not foreseen by the devs.

This whole "ah, the players of my time were a sophisitcated evian-sipping intellectuals unlike this barely human ADD rabble we have nowadays" is just stupid, lame and ultimately insulting to the folks who actually paid good money to play your crummy game.

Originally posted by tshack88

Would you rather take a long ass train ride through the desert, where you might see 1 or 2 amazing sights?

Or would you rather take a ride half that distance, but through a place where you see something that floors you at least twice as much?

The content they make in today's game is quality, not just bullshit filler like in the old days.  If you really prefer the original EQ questing to a game like SWTOR you're batshit insane, I'm sorry.

And I also guaranfuckingtee you will not be writing an article about this when GW2 comes out even if you level at the exact same rate as today's game.  Why?  Because it's f2p.  

 

Everyone has different likes and dislikes so when you tell other ppl that they are stupid  for liking something it makes you look very dumb...but seriously what's an "ass train"?

Originally posted by DarthRahlik

And besides, the content while leveling up is experienced to the full with character six and seven.

Your whole article is dated, your game style is dated, your arguments are dated.

You need to readjust your whole attitude.

 

We live in the 21 century now. Not the stone age.

I would say that I terribly disagree with everything you write.

 

 

You may disagree with what she writes, but so far history has shown us she is right.  How?  Retention.

Rift's retention has been abysmal.  Less then a year out, the game is down to less than 1/3 of its launch NA servers.   SWToR retention doesnt seem to be faring any better.

Originally posted by Arkinia

I leveled much more quickly in WoW than in SWTOR. What game are you playing?

 

This, among other this are way off in the article, almost as if she is talking conjecture vs actual experience.  Either that or we've been living in different parallel universes.  Heck, with all the charts and graphs the 'haters' are misrepresenting around, even they aren't bold enough to call it a 'free fall'.  lol wut?





Either way, I do agree with the 'content locust' term she mentions, as people who speed through content only to rush to endgame are shorting themselves and stifling the genre.  And hey, we agree on one thing(whether she realizes it or not) that WoW ruined the genre.



 

I don't understand how everyone thinks its a minority that rushes through the content. The title of the article is right. I'ts a swarm of locusts, most people rush through content. I mean sounds to me like if you play ~2 hours a day of SWTOR you'd have a 50 in the first month of sub. Is that supposed to be a lot of content? I know the grinders could get itdone in about a week, but still I would think Bioware would want their main storyline to last longer than a month when played pretty casually.

Actuallu I don't even know anymore. If FPS didn't have multiplayer then they would be crucified for the singleplayer they put out. Those stories are like 6 hours or less of gameplay.

Ok, the article is pretty good except for one thing... you can't be bothered to actually complete an entire planet before you leave it, whether you've outlevelled it or not.. why exactly? Because you want to get to the next planet. Its really as simply as that,and its YOUR OWN FAULT.

My highest toon is level 38, and I had early access and have been skipping stuff. Here's an idea.... play everything. Don't ignore it just because you've decided you outleveled it. 

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Originally posted by Cameron27
I don't understand how everyone thinks its a minority that rushes through the content. The title of the article is right. I'ts a swarm of locusts, most people rush through content. I mean sounds to me like if you play ~2 hours a day of SWTOR you'd have a 50 in the first month of sub. Is that supposed to be a lot of content? I know the grinders could get itdone in about a week, but still I would think Bioware would want their main storyline to last longer than a month when played pretty casually.
Actuallu I don't even know anymore. If FPS didn't have multiplayer then they would be crucified for the singleplayer they put out. Those stories are like 6 hours or less of gameplay.

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I'm going to say I agree with Isabelle.  I'm also going to say it has been said and argued more than a million times over on these very boards.  Last I'm going to say, corporations see what makes money and they produce it.  End.

Maybe the real question isn't about slowing down leveling but giving more options 'outside' of leveling.  I look back at all the MMO's I have played and why I subbed to some for 4 weeks and others for 6months - 6 years.

All the MMO's I stuck with gave me other options besides leveling.  Vanguard kept me going for 6 months due to crafting and house building.  EvE kept me going for 6 years and mostly around trading and manufacturing.  Fallen Earth kept me going for 12 months because of crafting etc.

I judge an MMO on what I can do outside of leveling and I think that is the key here, not slowing leveling down.