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News & Features Discussion  » General: Content Locusts Killed My MMO

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Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 17425

1/27/12 7:40:35 PM#261
Originally posted by Warbs
This is one reason I hope TERA does not westernise so much that it is easy to hit level cap

TERA already got critized for that in Korea...


Advanced Member

Joined: 5/29/07
Posts: 1454

1/27/12 7:41:43 PM#262

I agree entirely with this article. I am one of those players that loves the journey and not interested in the end content at all.  However I am a sandbox lover at heart but I don't min theme park when done well.

I have this problem with almost all MMO's.  I hate seeing my missions (some which I want to do) turn grey and then I just have to cancel because I can't seem to level slow. 

I don't want an XP decrease so you have to kill 20 rats instead of 10 but more content that takes time to complete but its ok if its half decent.  Alternatively, games like vanguard have a nice system of crafting having its only levelling process. I enjoyed that.


Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/07
Posts: 22

1/27/12 7:42:10 PM#263

Originally posted by knapu

Im just disapointed in the beta testers wtf did they do i would like to know ,pvp sucks unbalanced abd totally usless graphic bugs , skill lags etz i mean wtf .. this game could be rly good perhaps it will in future but by then noone will play it .

Same story as with most of other new mmos that came out latley


Unfortunately, 99% of 'beta testers' don't test / report anything.  They're in it to get a head start when the game releases or to just play the game for free for a while.


Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 826

*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

1/27/12 7:53:06 PM#264

Once again, this was expected, you may try to rationalise it as you wish but I had forseen this and expressed this in my posts months ago, even years ago about this game.

Yes maybe the force is strong with me afterall. ;)

- Duke Suraknar -
Order of the Silver Star, OSS

ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard


Novice Member

Joined: 10/16/05
Posts: 41

1/27/12 7:57:20 PM#265

This best explains the reason I don't play mmo's anymore. I go to this website in the faint hope a new, better, yet unforgiving everquest comes out. I don't want Everquest exactly, mind you. I just don't want little to no content, speed thru levels, and quite frankly i hate raiding. I always have.. when EQ starting becoming more and more about raiding, I lost interest. Perhaps I am a product of a bygone MMO age, but I want to earn those levels, that equipment. I want to feel I accomplished something. Not that I consumed the content in a zone and moved onto the next one. 

One of my co-workers started playing SWTOR at release and when he told me hit level cap a week or two ago I told him "That's not good". Mind you this guys only other MMO was WOW. I explained that if you cap that quickly, you're going to end up with nothing to do but some PVP zones and raids most likely. The game will quickly loose subscribers. He explained the PVP was good and the raid he did was fun. He told me just today that he was quitting at the end of his monthly subscription. When I asked why he said he had "Done everything and all there was left was PVP which we was getting bored of". Bad news.


rivethead23 Xfire Miniprofile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/24/03
Posts: 1428

1/27/12 8:03:22 PM#266

1st of all I am shocked.  This article implies that a writer for hit lvl cap in a MMO.  That has to be a 1st.  I thought you people here only wrote about games not played them.  But then again playing 1-50 in ToR is really not playing a MMO now is it?

Blaming players who actually play the game for the lack of content is assinie.  The ones hitting the level cap in 2 days are not the problem.  The problem are the people they want easy dumbed down leveling.  Without these people we would have much slower paced and longer journey which would give companies time to develop endgame.  teh seocnd problem is ToR devoted all their money and time to voice overs and did not test their endgame.  Now people wonder why the endgame is so buggy and terrible.  Look at Rift who be tested their endgame content for 6 months prior to release and one can see that tis possible to releae  agmae with good finished endgame content.


Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/10/07
Posts: 655

Beware of Felidae on the hunt.

1/27/12 8:37:37 PM#267

This is a bunch of crap, people complaining becaue they always complain, they dont have anything better to do other than complain, if the game is like this.. They complain...

If the game is slow pace, then they complain because is slow and boring and grindy....

Screw this, we live in the Complaining Age!!!!!

  User Deleted
1/27/12 8:41:33 PM#268

I agree with this article on most of its points. It is one reason I am looking forward to The Secret World. You start the game at "cap", so to speak, and cash in xp for 500+ skills. The entire game world is viable from start to finish.

As for SWTOR, I've been playing the same character since Dec 13th and I'm currently level 39 and having a great time. Its more than just slowing down. Players and developers both need to approach themepark mmos differently. People log in and if they are not level capped, then their entire goal is to hit level cap. I'm constantly going back and visiting old areas, helping out lower level players, exploring for datacrons, crafting, running 'grey' space missions and quests. I rarely power through an area.

It is one thing I really like about SWTOR, Ive skipped a planet's story arc and just focused on my class story on that planet. Then I'll go back later and breeze through the planet's story arc and just take in the story and scenery. Yeah I didnt get any xp, and the rewards were all vendored. But it was a nice break from some other planet I was on and more than a few times, Ive come in and saved the day for some lower level players on 4+ heroics.

At some point in my mmo gaming career, I stopped worrying about if I'm supposed to be somewhere after a certain time, or should I be bored yet. I stopped playing games for what I wanted them to be and just took them for what they were. If that wasnt fun, I moved on. But its not hard to find things you enjoy when you take the time to actually do things that you like.



Joined: 5/03/05
Posts: 1067

1/27/12 8:45:30 PM#269
Originally posted by Vannor

This is great article for us from the 'old school' mmo times, but sadly it will just fall on a majority of deaf ears these days.

So true.


Excellent thread OP.


The things many of us old school MMO players enjoyed about the MMO's of old(AC, UO, EQ) would be considered too tedious by todays ADD gamers.  They can't be bothered with things like corpse runs, burden, or in the case of UO and AC, figuring out what skills work best together to have an effective character.  Cookie cutter class archetypes, the trinity, and arcade gameplay rule the day now.


In AC I enjoyed things like fletching to make different types of missles for my archers to use.  I liked the old system of trial and error to learn higher level spells.  I liked having a big open world without NPC's with "!" above their head so I had to interact with and explore the world to find out what adventures there were to get in to.


I have actually gone back to AC1 after my 30 days of SWTOR really drove home the point that the genre is in a serious rut.  Yeah the graphics suck, but the gameplay is unparalleled(save UO) in today's games, or any games since 2004.  As much I don't want to wish failure for Bioware, it would do the genre good IMO for that game to fail massively so that maybe developers and investors will realize that themeparks are played out.


As someone earlier in the thread so eloquently put it, it's time to go backwards to move the genre forward.



Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!



Joined: 5/03/05
Posts: 1067

1/27/12 8:49:45 PM#270
Originally posted by meesha035

Originally posted by knapu

Im just disapointed in the beta testers wtf did they do i would like to know ,pvp sucks unbalanced abd totally usless graphic bugs , skill lags etz i mean wtf .. this game could be rly good perhaps it will in future but by then noone will play it .

Same story as with most of other new mmos that came out latley


Unfortunately, 99% of 'beta testers' don't test / report anything.  They're in it to get a head start when the game releases or to just play the game for free for a while.

Actually just saw these two posts and had to reply.


I beta tested SWTOR.  Please don't be disappointed in us.


We reported bugs, numerous suggestions were made to improve gameplay and it was all ignored by Bioware/EA.


Once they announced the Dec 20 launch date, their only focus was to get the game in a functional enough condition to launch.


We did our job as testers, Bioware/EA failed you.

Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!


Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/03
Posts: 513

1/27/12 8:52:44 PM#271
Originally posted by tshack88

Would you rather take a long ass train ride through the desert, where you might see 1 or 2 amazing sights?

Or would you rather take a ride half that distance, but through a place where you see something that floors you at least twice as much?

The content they make in today's game is quality, not just bullshit filler like in the old days.  If you really prefer the original EQ questing to a game like SWTOR you're batshit insane, I'm sorry.

And I also guaranfuckingtee you will not be writing an article about this when GW2 comes out even if you level at the exact same rate as today's game.  Why?  Because it's f2p.  

I think the point you may be missing is that for many people there was no long train ride through a desert, everything you did was part of an ongoing experience; good, bad, frustrating, satisfying, fun, funny or fantastic. There was actually a wide range of experiences to be had, a broad spectrum rather than the one dimensional, shallow experience of easy win, fast to level, zero risk linear themeparks. 

Travelling through Nektulos forest at night for example, wasn't just runnning with zero risk to the next bland and generic quest hub, it could go any number of ways and that's why you'd find people at zone in waiting to make the run with others for safety. It was actually a lot of fun. And that's not even including any of the GM run events, which actually used to be a real thing.

I know it's hard to imagine in the safety net linear path MMO emulator world of today (WoW and it's plethora of clones) but these zones were large, very dark, very dangerous and you had something at risk. 

That right there alone has more of the makings of an adventure than sending me out to safely click something giant and glowing 20 feet from the menial task distrubtor in quest hub #32, and in those cases, something that actually caused the community to interact in a positive way (you know, in a way other than coming up with 'clever' remarks involving Chuck Norris, insults or jumping on the chest someone else is clearly fighting towards).

You mention EQ questing, the irony is EQ was very, very light on guided content. However the quests they *did* have generally involved some reliance on brain power, effort, usually friends, and in the cases of epic weapons over the years, working with many other members of the community to solve quests over a period of months - *that* was something worth doing, that was an accomplishment to be proud of.

That's another irony, those were more true to the term 'quest' than these ridiculous five minute chores involving clicking 10 cows justified by some low brow pop culture reference that some call content.

The level of commitment & communal interaction required to see anything worth doing through to completion was something I certainly appreciated. There was actually room to set yourself apart as well - not everyone was wearing the exact same bland gear from the exact same raid token merchants (yawn). The worlds were large and varied, as were the rewards.

And for the record, nothing in any WoW clone themepark has ever 'floored' me, it all felt like they'd taken previous games, had a pre-school teacher child proof everything and remove all the sharp edges leaving no basis for comparison. Everything was just fast and easy and after a time, tedious as there were no peaks and troughs, no variance in experiences to establish reference. 

It's unfortunate that it sounds preachy to you, but you'll just have to accept the fact that clearly not everyone's in as much of a rush as you are to get on with it and be done with it.

As for Guild Wars 2, it doesn't sound like they're relying on the WoW/Swtor quest hub grind as the primary means of content delivery, so I'm sure (or at least hope) they'll have a rate of advancement suitable for their world and its events. Even if it does end up being another shallow and bland fast paced sprint to max level, at least they're trying something different. I'm pleased about that, whether the game ends up appealing to me or not, it's very satisfying to see people in the industry finally saying 'You know what? This whole linear quest hub grind thing is really getting old, let's try something different'.

And it's about time.

  User Deleted
1/27/12 8:59:33 PM#272

I think it is wrong to blame the player for this, while some managed to max level in swtor by week 1 those was quite few in the grand scheme of things.

Most people will use a while, think i had 2 weeks to get to 40 and those was some pretty hardcore game houres. But i did play solo for the most part  and if group content award alot more exp, this will scew my view some.

The problem is the devs, they follow the wow formula that is now. They forget that wow had a long exp curve in the start then reduced the exp when they had content to back it up, rift and swtor failed to see this when they released.

They thought leveling was nr1 priority and content 2nd while wow noticed this from the start.


Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 32

1/27/12 9:04:54 PM#273

I could not agree more with this article.  I havnt played SWTOR for this very reason.  ALot of my buddies are playin it and they are all complaining about this very issue.  Getting to max level should BE the endgame of a just launched MMO.  Their should be entry level dungeons to get you ready for what will be coming up.   And if your saying getting to 60 is original WoW didnt take you long or wasnt somewhat challenging your full of shit.  Especially on a PvP server you could lose days of leveling because you were constantly fighting eachother.  Which was fucking awesome.


This is the bullshit bratty new MMO crowd that wants their purples now and doesnt wanna do anything to earn it.  And of course the devs will cater to them because they represent the vast majority of the player base and their sub fees.   What a shame.

Playing : DayZ

Played : EVE, GW, SB, DF, AoC, WoW, WaR, L1, L2, Rift, AA, WS

Loved: DAoC, EVE, SB, old WoW, L2, GW2, EQ1-2


Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

1/27/12 9:18:43 PM#274

I came to this article late, but I have been saying this for years...

Those who are blown away wondering why people like me want more social, sandbox/hybrid games might start understanding now.  These themepark games with their carrot and stick speed-leveling style appeal to the same part of your brain that gambling does.  Things are moving fast and it feels like you are having fun, but the feeling is very short-lived and superficial.  If you never played Star Wars Galaxies and you wonder why so many of us loved that broken game, it's because despite what was missing or not working right, we still had a community and we had a freaking blast in something much more like a virtual world.  I'm not saying SWG was the best game ever made, but I am saying it was the kind of game that you lived-in, made long time friends in, adventured, made your own content, and many people played it for *years* not 1-3 months. 

It was at least a year ago when I looked at TOR and said multiple times that this game was going to be the ultimate expression of linear themepark design, and I meant that statement as a bad thing.  It is, and it's a nightmare.  To take a lore like Star Wars and waste it on a game that only lasts for a month or two is just sad.  Bioware can add as much new content as they want, but it won't fix this game.  They need to start thinking sandbox-hybrid and social.  

If, as the author suggested, they are happy with 3 months of player retention and then a F2P model, then let us all *PRAY* it dies quickly so someone with more vision can get the license and try again. 

I'm not just looking at TOR here.  I'm looking at games I want to play in the future too, such as Guild Wars 2 and The Secret World.  I hope devs are paying attention here.  The gamers that came to this genre with WoW are now sick of WoW, and they are ready for something new.  I've been ready for something new for years because I know what the other side looks and plays like, and it is so much better; so much more.

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.


Novice Member

Joined: 1/26/12
Posts: 304

1/27/12 9:24:13 PM#275

IMO, among the many, many problems with this "MMORPG" is the fact it is level based. Everything is overaly "cut-an-paste", and it feels like they took the worst elements from every mmo, rather than the best -- having spent too much time on the voice acting element, imo.


Novice Member

Joined: 5/28/11
Posts: 80

1/27/12 9:37:24 PM#276

How about this: Most ppl that play mmos don't care about story, they care about gameplay.

Those "locusts" only want to kill monsters and  other people with a light saber. Can you blame them? They don't care about what the artificial intelligence is communicating with the silly objective of trying to make them feel like a hero when they know everybody else in the game is the same and play the same story. 


Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1171

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

1/27/12 9:39:36 PM#277
Originally posted by SBFord

It used to be that hitting the level cap in an MMO was something that too months, if not years, to actually accomplish. These days, however, it's more a function of hours. After hitting the top, what is there to do? In today's Player Perspectives, we take a look at what we call "content locusts", those who greedily devour content rather than enjoy it. See what you think!

I like to blame the content locusts for this, at least to a large extent – that small percentage of players whose goal isn’t to experience content but to consume it as fast as possible as they race inexorably through a game. The people who, driven to hit max level as rapidly as they can, then sit there and whine loudly about how they have nothing to do and how they’re still hungry. There’s no satisfying that kind of player.

Read more of Isabelle Parsley's Player Perspectives: Content Locusts killed my MMO.

Let's look at what's really going on.  In the case of 2004 to present, the reason why end game comes soon is because the real grind starts then.  There's no immersive pvp, so there's nothing to fight over or get your blood boiling over.  Missed an instanced BG with a buddy or your 7 year old son?  No problem just push the button ----> twice.


The real grind is gearing up until a particular expansion negates your hard work.  Read - WoW corporate model.



Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/03
Posts: 4856

1/27/12 9:58:37 PM#278

problem is mmo was build on attachment nowadays the games are detached and quitting is so easy .back then the mere thought of leaving your online comrades was unthinkable.


Novice Member

Joined: 9/02/04
Posts: 35

EQ2 CSR:the Bug you reported is a new game feature, and will be removed in the next patch.

1/27/12 10:03:15 PM#279

What is generally forgotten is that leveling fast or slow must have appropriate number of quest to accomplish that goal.  SWTOR has very few quests, I had to do all, the quests I could find in many areas, just to make level, few quests, or lack of content means faster leveling.  Also remember SWTOR has special quest for each class of character, this is great for that character but ultimately it’s a lot of resources wasted on one class. This debate is more about content, or that lack of it. 



Novice Member

Joined: 4/24/07
Posts: 431

1/27/12 10:07:16 PM#280

I would like to see Developers built 'challenge' into the fun factor of the process -- so that you can be defeated a number of times, but still have fun.


I enjoyed EQ, partically because of the enjoyment of overcomming the difficulties that it had -- trains, aggressive mobs, mix level roaming mobs, even the dreaded 'corpse runs' offered some element of challenge and enteratinment for me.

Now I obviously can see that not everyone enjoyed that much difficulty, but I am now seeing similarly not everyone enjoys the lack of some difficulty, imo.



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