Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Zekiah

That's what you get when a MMO company spends a majority of their investment in one-time content, ie video cut scenes and VOs.

Now everyone knows what to look for so can we please not support these half-a** projects anymore? It's time us gamers put our wallets away and support gaming companies who cater to us, not their bank accounts via box sales.

It's time for those who feel that way to do that yes, problem is you're making it sound as though everyone should feel this way.

If you're happy with games like this then by all means, keep paying. I have a difficult time believing gamers are happy with shallow games like this but maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps the future of MMOs will continue to be dumbed-down to the point where they're unrecognizable any longer. That's exactly where we're headed if you and others are content.

I'm going to hold out hope that gamers are finally waking up to what's going on, at least for awhile longer.

[Mod Edit]

Get over yourself bud,  I like SWTOR too,  I prefer sandbox games.  These things aren't mutually exclusive.  And whats the deal with something being EXACTLY like something with a caveat that its different?  There are obviously other differences as well, even if you choose not to acknowledge them.

Writing in orange doesn't make your comments any more valid. I did NOT insult sandbox players. I DO prefer sandbox games.

And I wonder why I'm even bothering to reply. Here, have another grinding wheel, your axe is getting a little blunt.

Devs dont do a thing without market analysis, projections and meetings galore about the consumer base.  They cater to the lvl fast crowd because that is their meat and butter.   A  large percentage of the player base wants to get to end game to play with their friends in the good instances, they want to get there as fast as possible because they know in a few mths their friends will have moved onto the next game.  I totally agree with you on the lvl rate but we are beating our heads against the wall.

Face it, long term MMRPGs have changed, its not their fault .. its the consumers. 

Originally posted by SBFord

I like to blame the content locusts for this, at least to a large extent – that small percentage of players whose goal isn’t to experience content but to consume it as fast as possible as they race inexorably through a game. The people who, driven to hit max level as rapidly as they can, then sit there and whine loudly about how they have nothing to do and how they’re still hungry. There’s no satisfying that kind of player.

Read more of Isabelle Parsley's Player Perspectives: Content Locusts killed my MMO.

 

I like to blame lazy, cookie cutter developers who think gamers are a herd of cattle.

Lack of player driven content aka "sandbox" features and open world pvp objectives kicks these dime a dozen crap developers right in the nads.

precious covers it quite well below:

precious328 writes:

Gee, what a surprise. The first to start changing their tune. Didn't see that coming. >_>

I'm still enjoying the game. Then again I had to reroll Imperial so I could actually play the game with other players. So haven't hit fifty yet.

My first MMO was Anarchy Online. It certainly had a slower path to leveling. I'd say it also had a complexity that I just have not found in later games. Now a days in the raid based PvE end game you mindlessly keep raiding until you get the drop you want. Then you just put it on. The developers tweek the drop rate to keep the population raiding or eventually release the next big raid with better gear. In AO you would get an item you wanted but you might not be able to use it. There was typically a whole series of gear and buffs needed to actually be able to wear the gear.   If you didn't have the needed gear you may have to do actual non-raid content to get it. So as you said it was a major accomplishment when you actually put something new on. Now a days it just feels like you won the lottery. The level of fun in accomplishment is much higher. 

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Originally posted by Zekiah

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Originally posted by Distopia

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Originally posted by Zekiah

That's what you get when a MMO company spends a majority of their investment in one-time content, ie video cut scenes and VOs.

Now everyone knows what to look for so can we please not support these half-a** projects anymore? It's time us gamers put our wallets away and support gaming companies who cater to us, not their bank accounts via box sales.

---

It's time for those who feel that way to do that yes, problem is you're making it sound as though everyone should feel this way.

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If you're happy with games like this then by all means, keep paying. I have a difficult time believing gamers are happy with shallow games like this but maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps the future of MMOs will continue to be dumbed-down to the point where they're unrecognizable any longer. That's exactly where we're headed if you and others are content.
I'm going to hold out hope that gamers are finally waking up to what's going on, at least for awhile longer.

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Originally posted by Saxx0n

Originally posted by SBFord

I like to blame the content locusts for this, at least to a large extent – that small percentage of players whose goal isn’t to experience content but to consume it as fast as possible as they race inexorably through a game. The people who, driven to hit max level as rapidly as they can, then sit there and whine loudly about how they have nothing to do and how they’re still hungry. There’s no satisfying that kind of player.

Read more of Isabelle Parsley's Player Perspectives: Content Locusts killed my MMO.

 

I like to blame lazy, cookie cutter developers who think gamers are a herd of cattle.

 

Lack of player driven content aka "sandbox" features and open world pvp objectives kicks these dime a dozen crap developers right in the nads.

 

precious covers it quite well below:

 

precious328 writes:

Once again, this is why there is a great importance for social and player-driven end-game features.

Take player cities for example. That alone is a long-term goal to work towards. Meeting other players, agreeing and disagreeing with leadership, taxes, house and city placement, rivals with other nearby cities etc,  just add to the overall entertainment and competitiveness.

Social Features are the backbone of sustain. This gives players something to do while more content is being generated.

Because player housing was always bustling with players in SWG.

Well, no... not really,  even in its prime prior to the NGE player cities weren't populated at all.  

While player driven content is key for continued retention,  it isn't proven anywhere that retention is higher than content driven.

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Everyone should feel this way that's on this forum. Obviously you're NOT playing SWTOR, or you're waiting for GW2.

That being said, what do you think would have happened had Bioware invested the majority of its investment into a dynamic & seemless world coupled with reactive content, a skill tree based system WITHOUT levels, an open world economy crafting system similar to SWG, item decay, NO pvp-player looting, open faction pvping as soon as you get out of the starter world, and a 3 faction system?

Definitely better than this pile of trash people were told was "amazingly better than their previous competition".

 

What do you mean by I'm obviously not playing TOR? Because actually I am, toward your other post... I am more of a sandbox fan than anything in this genre, you saying I'm not won't change that.

Originally posted by Saxx0n

I like to blame lazy, cookie cutter developers who think gamers are a herd of cattle.

From their lazy, cookie cutter restating of other player's opinions, the devs just may be right.

But in all likelihood, both sorts of hyperbole are equally untrue.

Originally posted by maplestone

I notice these days that the level cap is the mark of citizenship in a themepark game - whether it's openly stated or not, there's a subconscious "anyone not at the cap is a noob" reaction.  It quietly puts a lot of pressure on a player to accelerate and I don't think it would be solved by a slower levelling curve - I feel it's more about the evolution of the player culture over the years.

I think it would be interesting to see a game where all levelling was horizonal progression.  Each zone would be treated as an entire game onto itself - there would still be leveling, but it would be all zone-specific or mob-specific, allowing you to get that leveling feel and/or overpower a challenge that's got you stuck without getting a global power boost that renders content in other zones obsolete.   You already see this with reputation grinds and some achievements, but what if you it was applied to skills and buffs as well?  Levelless, but not progressionless.

Ooh, awesome idea.  Heck we already have games starting to section off parts of the world like this with quest hubs, factions and storylines, I like your idea of going even further with it.  Although....isn't GW2 doing something similar in this regard?  Having content scale to your level or something?  I know they are doing something innovative where there is no level "grind" per se.  Hmm....

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Saxx0n

Originally posted by SBFord

I like to blame the content locusts for this, at least to a large extent – that small percentage of players whose goal isn’t to experience content but to consume it as fast as possible as they race inexorably through a game. The people who, driven to hit max level as rapidly as they can, then sit there and whine loudly about how they have nothing to do and how they’re still hungry. There’s no satisfying that kind of player.

Read more of Isabelle Parsley's Player Perspectives: Content Locusts killed my MMO.

 

I like to blame lazy, cookie cutter developers who think gamers are a herd of cattle.

 

Lack of player driven content aka "sandbox" features and open world pvp objectives kicks these dime a dozen crap developers right in the nads.

 

precious covers it quite well below:

 

precious328 writes:

Once again, this is why there is a great importance for social and player-driven end-game features.

Take player cities for example. That alone is a long-term goal to work towards. Meeting other players, agreeing and disagreeing with leadership, taxes, house and city placement, rivals with other nearby cities etc,  just add to the overall entertainment and competitiveness.

Social Features are the backbone of sustain. This gives players something to do while more content is being generated.

 

Because player housing was always bustling with players in SWG.

 

Well, no... not really,  even in its prime prior to the NGE player cities weren't populated at all.  

 

While player driven content is key for continued retention,  it isn't proven anywhere that retention is higher than content driven.

Wonder why EvE is still the most popular game? Hmm let me see......

Originally posted by VincentG85

This is where The Secret World stands :

 - No Levels : You start at "end-game" !

 - 500 Skills tu Unlock : Grinding all of the 500 is going to take a bunch of time !

Still 2 months...

Let's hope there will be a skill cap, or this will end up badly

Originally posted by Saxx0n

 

Wonder why EvE is still the most popular game? Hmm let me see......

What do you mean by EVE is the most popular game?

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Saxx0n

Originally posted by SBFord

I like to blame the content locusts for this, at least to a large extent – that small percentage of players whose goal isn’t to experience content but to consume it as fast as possible as they race inexorably through a game. The people who, driven to hit max level as rapidly as they can, then sit there and whine loudly about how they have nothing to do and how they’re still hungry. There’s no satisfying that kind of player.

Read more of Isabelle Parsley's Player Perspectives: Content Locusts killed my MMO.

 

I like to blame lazy, cookie cutter developers who think gamers are a herd of cattle.

 

Lack of player driven content aka "sandbox" features and open world pvp objectives kicks these dime a dozen crap developers right in the nads.

 

precious covers it quite well below:

 

precious328 writes:

Once again, this is why there is a great importance for social and player-driven end-game features.

Take player cities for example. That alone is a long-term goal to work towards. Meeting other players, agreeing and disagreeing with leadership, taxes, house and city placement, rivals with other nearby cities etc,  just add to the overall entertainment and competitiveness.

Social Features are the backbone of sustain. This gives players something to do while more content is being generated.

 

Because player housing was always bustling with players in SWG.

 

Well, no... not really,  even in its prime prior to the NGE player cities weren't populated at all.  

That's not true. In pre-cu SWG before the bazaar allowed more items, people roamed player-cities checking vendors. I vividly remember one player-city in particular that had a player selling droids in the street, people running around checking vendors, talking etc.

I never liked how you could pick up items directly from the bazaar though, I always thought you should have to visit the vendor in person. That would have made player cities MUCH more busy.

Been playing since about 3 days after release.  I have a lvl 28 sniper ( 200 armormech, 190+ gathering skills, lvl 23 valor ) and a lvl 12 marauder ( 300 slicing ).  I enjoy, ENJOYING games instead of the rushing to the end to be "bored" with the other "31337" "n00b hating" "pro-gamerZZz".

It's a simple idea, play for a few hours when you get home from work, spend time with your girl/boyfriend/wife, cook and enjoy dinner, get some house work done, play for a few more hours... theeeeennnnn goto bed!

Or rush to the end of the game and blame BioWare for your failed life choices.

Whichever you prefer.

Originally posted by Zekiah

 

That's not true. In pre-cu SWG before the bazaar allowed more items, people roamed player-cities checking vendors. I vividly remember one player-city in particular that had a player selling droids in the street, people running around checking vendors, talking etc.

I never liked how you could pick up items directly from the bazaar though, I always thought you should have to visit the vendor in person. That would have made player cities MUCH more busy.

Uhmm you couldn't pick up items off player vendors in the bazaar, it gave you a WP to the vendor and that's it. That's how it was before the NGE anyway after I have no idea.

I thoroughly enjoyed the game from 1 to 49. Some of the best story based questing I've ever done in an MMO. There were some bugs here and there, but overall I felt the game was pretty well done up to that point.

Level 50 is where everything came crashing down. The raid content was absolutely terrible. So buggy that you almost could never do anything to progress, and when the bugs didn't kick in the fights were a joke. Clearing "hard" mode in one attempt just shows the lack of intelligence that went into designing the fights. 

PvP was another debacle that really proved to me BW just isn't ready for the big leagues against other major mmo companies. Not because the fighting is bad, I do love the combat in this game. It was the serious lack of understanding on how to design a pvp zone (ilum) and the terrible quality of their game engine that has me convinced I won't be renewing my sub. They still haven't made attempts to rectify the fact that all fighting takes place at the base of the underpopulated side, with each side pulling one person into their zerg every 5 minutes for a valor kill. Also the lag when there is more than 30 people on the screen at once is awful. I don't see how they are going to optimize it that quickly when they can't even push out patches that don't result in more bugs for other areas of the game.

And let's not get into the whole issue of them not rolling back anyone who exploited to grind the battlemaster rank. I have to agree with the other people who posted in this thread that that kind of kills the game for a good amount of people, the ones who didn't exploit and were already close, and the ones who didn't exploit and didn't benefit from the increased valor that day. Knowing that there are a good amount of people on the pvp servers who earned BM through an exploit would obviously put a damper on their desire to play. I was a BM before this issue, and I personally don't care if other people have it because to me it's just a title and you literally get nothing for grinding the ranks besides access to new epics that have maybe a +5 stat increase on pieces? That's what pisses me off more, that being a BM isn't much of a big deal after grinding out 60 valor ranks...

That being said there are plenty of other issues that the devs just never came through on their promises of, like their thoughts on why other mmos got it wrong with boss encounters yet they pretty much have the exact same shit going on in their title. 

I don't understand how they could go from having such a decent quality game from 1 to 49, and then at 50 have this kind of state of the game. Don't blame the players at all. BW made leveling ridiculously fast and easy when they had no content provided to the players who reached max level. Why is that the players fault? Maybe they should have put some of that 200 million into end game content...

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Zekiah

 

That's not true. In pre-cu SWG before the bazaar allowed more items, people roamed player-cities checking vendors. I vividly remember one player-city in particular that had a player selling droids in the street, people running around checking vendors, talking etc.

I never liked how you could pick up items directly from the bazaar though, I always thought you should have to visit the vendor in person. That would have made player cities MUCH more busy.

Uhmm you couldn't pick up items off player vendors in the bazaar, it gave you a WP to the vendor and that's it. That's how it was before the NGE anyway after I have no idea.

That could be, and why I remember player-cities so bustling. I know that they raised the limit on the bazaar later on and I'm pretty certain you could get the item instantly from the bazaar. I think the limit was 25k credits.

At any rate, SWG was on the right track with cities but they kept messing things up. Remember when cantinas and hostpitals were slammed? Man, good times.