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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Where's the exploration?

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105 posts found
  ryman

Novice Member

Joined: 10/30/05
Posts: 273

1/25/12 11:12:22 PM#41
Originally posted by spizz
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by dinams
I can think from the top of my head of 3 planets that exploration do not exist
Coruscant, Nar Shadda and Quesh




I did some exploration on Nar Shadda outside of the story line.

 

Actually Nar Shaddar is for me the most boring planet out of all and I was happy after finishing the quests to leave this planet asap.

Wait... so you're also forced to goto these planets to level up? I thought we at least had choices where to level our characters in MMOs... oh boy, where has the time gone?

Never let Biocrap make another MMO....and probably sequels too.. ME2 and DA2 both sucked compared to their predecessors.

  Laughing-man

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3387

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

1/25/12 11:17:51 PM#42

Games are allowed to be different.

Bioware has a distinct style of game they've made for over a decade.

SWTOR reflects that style perfectly.

MMOs don't have to all be the same and include the same features.

Star Wars doesn't have exploration in it really... Thats Star Trek.

 

Thank you.

  allegria

Novice Member

Joined: 3/10/07
Posts: 685

1/25/12 11:38:16 PM#43
Originally posted by Mythios11
Unfortunately Bioware focused too much on character immersion and completely forgot about world immersion. The end result is lackluster for many long time mmo players.

Indeed.

It is interesting to bring up because i felt very very immersed in Dragon Age and ME 1+2, yet SWTOR just felt too confined for some reason.  I am not sure if it is the "distances" or I fell into the trap of talk to NPC, follow map marker. 

It is fairly obvious where the effort went into this project "making player feel like a hero" in their own story... world immersion was not really their focus and sadly that is one thing that I really enjoy about MMOs. :(

  tuppe99

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/16/05
Posts: 251

1/26/12 4:54:36 AM#44

I think this one guy on the official forums nailed it:

"The problem I have is that if you do every quest on a planet, you'll go to every room, cave or zone except the ones for other classes. It makes the world feel a lot smaller. Every creature and room you see is there because of a quest. There isn't that big a variety of different creatures to see either, just a ton of humans and droids everywhere. That could be a limit of the Star Wars universe though.


In WoW, you run by areas and creatures that have nothing to do with you. They may be for quests for the other faction or ones you get from other areas but you feel like there's more to each zone than what was there for you. Having things in the world that have nothing to do with you really helps make the world feel alive. 

In SWTOR, theres no reason to ever go back to a planet casuse you've seen every inch of it already. 


It feels like Bioware designed the quests, and built the world around that, while WoW built a world, then made quests for you to do in it."

 

Sums it up for me.

  SanHor

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 342

1/26/12 5:10:58 AM#45
Originally posted by lizardbones

I did some exploration on Nar Shadda outside of the story line.

Picking through grabage cans doesn't count.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10635

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/26/12 5:31:40 AM#46


Originally posted by tuppe99
I think this one guy on the official forums nailed it:
"The problem I have is that if you do every quest on a planet, you'll go to every room, cave or zone except the ones for other classes. It makes the world feel a lot smaller. Every creature and room you see is there because of a quest. There isn't that big a variety of different creatures to see either, just a ton of humans and droids everywhere. That could be a limit of the Star Wars universe though.

In WoW, you run by areas and creatures that have nothing to do with you. They may be for quests for the other faction or ones you get from other areas but you feel like there's more to each zone than what was there for you. Having things in the world that have nothing to do with you really helps make the world feel alive. 

In SWTOR, theres no reason to ever go back to a planet casuse you've seen every inch of it already. 

It feels like Bioware designed the quests, and built the world around that, while WoW built a world, then made quests for you to do in it."
 
Sums it up for me.




It took Blizzard seven years to get all that extra stuff that isn't used. That is all stuff that they were going to use, but then didn't. The island with the elite Nagas? Part of a quest chain that they removed or never managed to get into the game. Everything that you would 'explore' is just extra thumbs that they never managed to cut off.

So...give BioWare time to add things that they'll never actually use.

On world design, Bioware did design the world around the story and the quests. I don't think anyone would say otherwise. But since the story is the main point of the game, this makes sense.

Finally, as I stated, even on Nar Shadaa, I did some exploring, and it wasn't picking through garbage cans. Dumpster diving is exploration though.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10635

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/26/12 5:39:02 AM#47


Originally posted by FlawSGI


Originally posted by Zekiah
Exploration in Theme Park designs...
 

 
...if you're lucky.


 Sad but true. But the TOR fans will tell you it comes in the form of looking for the datacrons. The sad part is they really beleive this is what exploration is all about.



No, not exactly. For people with the idea that exploration is "All or Nothing", SWToR has none. Which is not true...you can explore. The amount of content you can explore is small, very true. But it exists.

The thread's title would be more accurate as "Where's the Open World?" Then people could quickly say, "Duh, it's a theme park. Why did you expect an open world?"

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  outfctrl

Novice Member

Joined: 11/16/03
Posts: 3630

American by Birth
Biker by choice
Patriot forever

1/26/12 6:02:18 AM#48
Originally posted by Vonatar

Exploration, like so many MMO features some of us remember fondly from our days in games like EQ, is a thing of the past. Today's MMO player wants something different, something that gets him easily through the content and to max level so he can PVP, raid, chase gear or whatever. Hence the rise of the themepark. WoW is probably the last of its kind in offering anything more than a streamlined handheld journey to the top.

Plus, us older gamers just don't have the time to spend in MMOs that we used to, between work, family etc. Yes I look back at EQ with very happy memories, but the reality is I wouldn't be able to play it now with the couple of hours each day I can spend in game. BW is just following the modern trend and not wasting time and resources on giant, rich environments that only a very small number of players would take time to explore or even take notice of.

^

What he said.

I used to spend many hours exploring in UO.  Hell, I used to call in sick on days I wanted to play.  Too many responsibilities now.

The older you get, the less time you have to play.

  FlawSGI

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 1405

All of history is a lie. The truth depends on who does the listening, and who does the telling...

1/26/12 8:30:31 AM#49
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by FlawSGI


Originally posted by Zekiah
Exploration in Theme Park designs...
 

 
...if you're lucky.



 Sad but true. But the TOR fans will tell you it comes in the form of looking for the datacrons. The sad part is they really beleive this is what exploration is all about.



No, not exactly. For people with the idea that exploration is "All or Nothing", SWToR has none. Which is not true...you can explore. The amount of content you can explore is small, very true. But it exists.

The thread's title would be more accurate as "Where's the Open World?" Then people could quickly say, "Duh, it's a theme park. Why did you expect an open world?"

 

 I woulda left the picture in since it prety much said it all . It did show a very little amount of exploration as well haha.

 

I don't agree that just because it is a themepark that it cannot have open world explorations. What about GW2 then? It is constantly called a themepark yet the game is all anbout exploration and as unlinear as they can make it? Only bringing GW2 up because it is an example of exploration. FFXI? Rare spawns that dropped rare gear so people explored to find them. Just 2 examples of games that are conciddered "themeparks" but have a good amount of exploration. I don't think it is all or nothing myself. I don't concidder WoW to have no exploration though there was really very little in that game as well. But TOR is so tunneled that it really really stands out. Title seems fitting.

RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  Zekiah

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 2539

Hype (noun)
1. to trick; gull.
2. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
3. swindle, deception, or trick.

1/26/12 8:38:28 AM#50
Originally posted by FlawSGI
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by FlawSGI


Originally posted by Zekiah
Exploration in Theme Park designs...
 

 
...if you're lucky.



 Sad but true. But the TOR fans will tell you it comes in the form of looking for the datacrons. The sad part is they really beleive this is what exploration is all about.



No, not exactly. For people with the idea that exploration is "All or Nothing", SWToR has none. Which is not true...you can explore. The amount of content you can explore is small, very true. But it exists.

The thread's title would be more accurate as "Where's the Open World?" Then people could quickly say, "Duh, it's a theme park. Why did you expect an open world?"

 

 I woulda left the picture in since it prety much said it all . It did show a very little amount of exploration as well haha.

 

I don't agree that just because it is a themepark that it cannot have open world explorations. What about GW2 then? It is constantly called a themepark yet the game is all anbout exploration and as unlinear as they can make it? Only bringing GW2 up because it is an example of exploration. FFXI? Rare spawns that dropped rare gear so people explored to find them. Just 2 examples of games that are conciddered "themeparks" but have a good amount of exploration. I don't think it is all or nothing myself. I don't concidder WoW to have no exploration though there was really very little in that game as well. But TOR is so tunneled that it really really stands out. Title seems fitting.

I haven't played SWTOR but if it's anything like Rift in how linear it is, or worse, then I'm extra glad I didn't pick it up.

One of the best things about SWG was map-rollover because it made you feel like it was a real planet and not just a gimmick with linear walls of magic protection. Games that are heavily linear are atrocious to play for me and I'm sure others like yourself. It just kills immersion.

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  Zekiah

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 2539

Hype (noun)
1. to trick; gull.
2. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
3. swindle, deception, or trick.

1/26/12 8:41:24 AM#51

And btw, how's that space exploration coming along? 

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

1/26/12 8:41:44 AM#52

All bioware games are linear, so i don't know why people are surprised. their last game DA2 was terrible and highlights that since EA have taken over the quality of their titles has suffered.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10635

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/26/12 9:08:52 AM#53


Originally posted by FlawSGI


Originally posted by lizardbones


Originally posted by FlawSGI


Originally posted by Zekiah
Exploration in Theme Park designs...
 

 
...if you're lucky.



 Sad but true. But the TOR fans will tell you it comes in the form of looking for the datacrons. The sad part is they really beleive this is what exploration is all about.



No, not exactly. For people with the idea that exploration is "All or Nothing", SWToR has none. Which is not true...you can explore. The amount of content you can explore is small, very true. But it exists.

The thread's title would be more accurate as "Where's the Open World?" Then people could quickly say, "Duh, it's a theme park. Why did you expect an open world?"


 I woulda left the picture in since it prety much said it all . It did show a very little amount of exploration as well haha.
 
I don't agree that just because it is a themepark that it cannot have open world explorations. What about GW2 then? It is constantly called a themepark yet the game is all anbout exploration and as unlinear as they can make it? Only bringing GW2 up because it is an example of exploration. FFXI? Rare spawns that dropped rare gear so people explored to find them. Just 2 examples of games that are conciddered "themeparks" but have a good amount of exploration. I don't think it is all or nothing myself. I don't concidder WoW to have no exploration though there was really very little in that game as well. But TOR is so tunneled that it really really stands out. Title seems fitting.



I didn't take it out...the editor did that for me. Just imagine a picture of a mouse in a maze.

** edit **
The title is somewhat misleading. Is the game linear? Yes. Is the game an 'open world' style game? No. Not at all. It is a cinematic, story driven game.

However, does exploration exist? Yes. You can explore, you can find things outside of your story line and the side quest story lines. There is content in the game that serves no purpose other than for people to find it or walk into it and look around. You have to look for it though. You're not going to just wander into that stuff. You're going to have to find it.

'Exploration' in old school games was the only way to get around. If you didn't wander around without a map or any directions, you weren't playing the game. You could remove all the quest question marks and the map from SWToR and people could call it 'exploration'.

** edit **
For that matter, players could skip most of the quests and 'explore' the game. There is a lot of real estate to walk around in.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  FlawSGI

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 1405

All of history is a lie. The truth depends on who does the listening, and who does the telling...

1/26/12 9:14:37 AM#54
Originally posted by Zekiah
Originally posted by FlawSGI
Originally posted by lizardbones

 

I haven't played SWTOR but if it's anything like Rift in how linear it is, or worse, then I'm extra glad I didn't pick it up.

One of the best things about SWG was map-rollover because it made you feel like it was a real planet and not just a gimmick with linear walls of magic protection. Games that are heavily linear are atrocious to play for me and I'm sure others like yourself. It just kills immersion.

 Some can disagree with me if they want, but TOR actually feels more linear when it comes to the exploration. In rifts they gave people all of those little artifacts to find and some felt that it was enough to make the game feel like exploration and in some ways I guess it was. You also could wind up at a different quest hub than was expected if you decided to explore instead of following the bread crumbs and that wasn't too bad. But the fact that all toons leveled the exact same pathway through zones and each zone seemed small for some reason made the game seem pretty limiting. 

 

TOR is the exact same with a few exceptions. In some regards there can be an argument it is less linear because you can do these space flight simulator minigames for exp and money so it feels like you dont have to go to a planet when it says to, but I found myself getting ahead of my quests and that made the game boring since content doesnt scale and you were now fighting mobs that are lower than you. When in the zones it is so railed that you dont find yourself wandering to a different quest hub until the game tells you to because the game is full of these zones within zones that are dedicated to hoeroic, or group quests and the mobs can be pretty rough on anyone that is just wanting to explore the area. While the mobs aren't to tough to kill for some classes, they are pretty annoying if you aren't looking to fight them because the fights can take a bit. This almost felt like a boudary in the game without being a boundary and I would only go in the heroic zones if I had a quest to, but once that quest was done there was never a reason to go back. Not to mention these zones are meant for groups and when you do group for them, the other members arent really interested in exploring because they want to get the quest done and go on with their leveling.

 

IMO TOR is actually worse than Rift in regards to exploration and railed gameplay, but not by much. If this was a big turnoff for you in Rift, it will bother you in TOR as well.

RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  Mors.Magne

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/02/07
Posts: 1428

1/26/12 9:20:09 AM#55

Darkfall is the only game I know with a real sense of exploration. You might want to check it out.

 

However, I think the game is on the decline. The big problem with it is that it was/is a grind-fest.

 

 

  Dracill

Novice Member

Joined: 2/29/08
Posts: 161

1/26/12 9:21:20 AM#56
Just an idea but is not a bit to early to claim the GW2 have lots of exploration card?

Just an opinion
  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

1/26/12 9:22:31 AM#57
Originally posted by Mors.Magne

Darkfall is the only game I know with a real sense of exploration. You might want to check it out.

 

However, I think the game is on the decline. The big problem with it is that it was/is a grind-fest.

 

 

From beta-testers it seem that ArcheAge will be preety cool for exploring.

Seamless no loading screens , even if you go from one continent to other using ship.

  FlawSGI

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 1405

All of history is a lie. The truth depends on who does the listening, and who does the telling...

1/26/12 9:31:15 AM#58
Originally posted by Dracill
Just an idea but is not a bit to early to claim the GW2 have lots of exploration card?

Just an opinion

 Actually it isn't because the game has shown in demos that there are bosses that can only be found through exploration. Not to mention that some DE's only will be set off by the explorer types who do go into places that are really tough to get to. I understand that maybe you may not like the game, I don't know, but GW2 plays a perfect example of this and you should go read up on it before posting.

Just an opinion.

RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  FlawSGI

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 1405

All of history is a lie. The truth depends on who does the listening, and who does the telling...

1/26/12 9:37:30 AM#59
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by FlawSGI


Originally posted by lizardbones


Originally posted by FlawSGI


Originally posted by Zekiah



I didn't take it out...the editor did that for me. Just imagine a picture of a mouse in a maze.

** edit **
The title is somewhat misleading. Is the game linear? Yes. Is the game an 'open world' style game? No. Not at all. It is a cinematic, story driven game.

However, does exploration exist? Yes. You can explore, you can find things outside of your story line and the side quest story lines. There is content in the game that serves no purpose other than for people to find it or walk into it and look around. You have to look for it though. You're not going to just wander into that stuff. You're going to have to find it.

'Exploration' in old school games was the only way to get around. If you didn't wander around without a map or any directions, you weren't playing the game. You could remove all the quest question marks and the map from SWToR and people could call it 'exploration'.

** edit **
For that matter, players could skip most of the quests and 'explore' the game. There is a lot of real estate to walk around in.

 

 I can agree with you on your points. I wasn't saying it is completely non existent, only that aside from the datacrons the game is not designed to encourage it. There are guides out to gather thes datacrons so even calling it exploration at this point is a stretch since they are always there and don't randomly spawn. Just look them up and go to them. But other than that there is no real reason since the questing paths are designed to lead you from point A - X and along the way you open areas of the map and get the exp from that as well so there is never a darked out portion that makes you wonder what is in there. My highest is only 34 so maybe I just haven't hit the zone but I don't feel it will change. The only place that has had real estate was the desert and if you think walking around a large area is the same as exploration then I guess we just think differently on what exploratin actually is.

RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17217

1/26/12 9:39:42 AM#60
Originally posted by Ikeda

Actually, their reasoning was actually fairly good.  If you looked at their maps, they followed exactly who went where and found almost NOT (as in next to zero) players were remotely interested in exploration.  If I can find the article I'll repost it.

 

http://www.swtor.com/news/blog/20110506

http://mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm

 

Those aren't the particular article but they follow the same idea.

I would completely agree with their reasoning. Having said that, I feel that if a game's developers don't say "there is stuff to find" players aren't going to go looking for it. Especially since more recent games don't have a lot in the way of discovery. Personally I love exploring. And though I love the feel of some of SWToR's more open spaces I don't get the sense that exploring will yield anything of interest other than a hidden datacron.

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