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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » If the AAA developers can't even make a Good THEMEPARK MMO, what makes you think that they can make a Good SANDBOX mmorpg?

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51 posts found
  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5734

 
OP  1/25/12 6:06:49 AM#1
The community here are MMORPG.com, the voice of the MMO gaming community, seems to rage over the so called "lack of sandbox support" from developers, and the more THEMEPARK focused development over the last few years.

Well something I notice, thanks to a few forumers here, is that most SANDBOX MMO are never innovating at all. Innovation doesn't seem to be as big of a topic as it is from the THEMEPARK community, because they are use to the idea of these games can be different. THEMEPARK fans want innovation, and SANDBOX fans want the opposite of innovation.

Well going by the community here's though on AAA themepark developers, they sure seem to lack innovation. Doesn't that kinda fit into what the Sandbox community wants?
would that mean that these AAA Themepark developers can make good sandbox MMO?

But on the flip side of things. Sandbox design seem much harder to successfully pull off unless you a developer that know what they are doing in the design. Which may be why so many Sandbox MMO aren't pleasing the community here which cry out for them.

Well these AAA developers, which seem to have a record of making poor Themepark MMO.
Wouldn't they likely fail as well if they try their hands at a harder project such as a SANDBOX MMORPG?

What's your thoughts?

Since AAA developers are poor at making themepark MMO, would they succeed at making a Sandbox MMO instead?

Yes they would be more successful making a Sandbox
No, they will fail at making a sandbox MMO just as much as they fail at making themepark mmo
(login to vote)

  Loke666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16023

1/25/12 6:12:21 AM#2

Many MO devs will mess up whatever they make, that is true.

But someone will eventually get it right and that goes for both types of games.

  rojo6934

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 4543

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

1/25/12 6:14:22 AM#3

i think the ones who should be making sandbox mmos are the guys behind sandbox single player games. Bethesda for example. Leave themepark for TP devs. Leave sandbox for SB devs.

"in peace, in sleep under the barren, abandoned soil"

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5734

 
OP  1/25/12 6:16:18 AM#4
Originally posted by rojo6934

i think the ones who should be making sandbox mmos are the guys behind sandbox single player games. Bethesda for example. Leave themepark for TP devs. Leave sandbox for SB devs.

 

Iam not even sure Bethesda can make a MRPG, let alone a MMORPG. :-P

  odinsrath

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/10
Posts: 839

1/25/12 6:18:31 AM#5

i for one wouldnt want a AAA comp to make a mmorpg...but some get lost in whats AAA and whats not...i mean mostly everyone that is "labled" AAA  has prolly worked with or under a huge company here or there and then blown up saying they are great cuz they worked for this or that AAA company

but as iv said in another post..the begining of last year and this year will be the year EA loads their pocket up with cash as they cash in the "easy money" of mmorpg gaming..look for all their titles being loaded with the same buggy and non-attention of addressing what needs to be fixed just to pump out game after game to make a quick buck..people need to stop paying money to these so called AAA companys / fat cats that seem to think they run the block and let them fall flat on their face and gtfo of mmorpg gaming..leave it up to the people that know what they are doing and be creative and not to be in it just for the quick buck...the whole genra has gone to rubbish.

  Vegetta

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/06
Posts: 437

1/25/12 8:15:46 AM#6

No devs (AAA or not) will ever make a perfect mmo that pleases everyone. Basically these games need to cater to the lowest common denominator to appeal to the widest possible audience or sub numbers will suffer too much to be profitable and support continued content development. Its funny, in their attempts to please everyone they end up pleasing no one

The games that don't cater to the lowest common denominator don't have the budget to make a compelling polished final product.

  sagil

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/09
Posts: 270

1/25/12 8:17:58 AM#7
Originally posted by odinsrath

i for one wouldnt want a AAA comp to make a mmorpg...but some get lost in whats AAA and whats not...i mean mostly everyone that is "labled" AAA  has prolly worked with or under a huge company here or there and then blown up saying they are great cuz they worked for this or that AAA company

but as iv said in another post..the begining of last year and this year will be the year EA loads their pocket up with cash as they cash in the "easy money" of mmorpg gaming..look for all their titles being loaded with the same buggy and non-attention of addressing what needs to be fixed just to pump out game after game to make a quick buck..people need to stop paying money to these so called AAA companys / fat cats that seem to think they run the block and let them fall flat on their face and gtfo of mmorpg gaming..leave it up to the people that know what they are doing and be creative and not to be in it just for the quick buck...the whole genra has gone to rubbish.

That's not really true. Every AAA company listens to the needs of the community. I think we are the minority of that community that wants overhauls of mmorpgs than just adjustments. The new mmorpg players that are not burned out with the ordinary themepark game are the ones that are milking the cows most, but also the ones that are old gamers and believe that the game is better in a few months and in turn has spent some money on it through the years due to few selection for old gamers.

It's not "we" against "them", it's "us" against "us". We need to tell our buddies what kind of piece of shit they're playing if even they will listen to us, which I doubt they will. So until then, we need to wait for more gamers to grow up so we become a larger community and our voices be heard that can crack windows. 

  Vryheid

Novice Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 471

1/25/12 8:21:11 AM#8

Sandbox MMOs don't require things like "plot" or "dungeons" or even a balanced combat system, many of the things developers have trouble with when designing a themepark MMO. The main limitation for sandbox titles is hardware based, as it requires a staggering amount of network and server power to update the environment on the fly. I feel like as technology improves developers will start treating 3D sandbox titles as more of an option again, and yes, they will be fairly decent at it.

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

1/25/12 8:24:35 AM#9

So tired of themepark WoW-like mmorpg's that I will take sandbox , sandpark anyway.

 

You know I am NOT playing ANY mmorpg atm cause I am ultimatelly tired and bored of them. 

 

If they fail doing sandbox - well I don't lose anything. I have status quo - I just still don't play anything :)

 

If they succedd I have mmorpg's to play :)

  obii

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/17/04
Posts: 777

1/25/12 8:25:35 AM#10

But there are good themeparks out there?

WOW? LOTR? Even SWTOR is a 'good' themepark for very casual players who want to be told a story.

 

I think a good sanbox would need more solid ideas/concepts than money anyway.

But I see no reason why a well thought out sandnbox from a good developer would not work.

  Zekiah

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 2527

Hype (noun)
1. to trick; gull.
2. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
3. swindle, deception, or trick.

1/25/12 8:26:03 AM#11

It needs a third option, "depends on who the developer is".

But no, I don't have a lot of confidence in these silly MMO companies. You could put monkies in charge and they'd probably do a better job.

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  drbaltazar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 7927

1/25/12 8:31:30 AM#12
One of the main issue game dev have is that they went and baught game engine and nowregret it because those engine are very limited in capability as a mmo. Most if not all of them are more multiplayer engine then massive multiplayer.butnow most of the dev are stuck with the engine.
  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18344

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

1/25/12 8:36:59 AM#13

Define what you mean by "good".

Many people feel SWTOR is a good MMORPG, I tend to agree with them.   (Not a great MMO mind you, but certainly good)

Many will argue that right now LOTRO, AOC, and some others are good MMORPG's.   They might not have been so at launch, or perhaps along the way they've made changes to spoil the gameplay (a common mistake) but overall, they're pretty solid titles now even if early mistakes ruined their chances at financial greatness.

I doubt anyone will ever build another WOW, which while very popular during its run, and always a good game, was not perfect.

So yes, I think a AAA house could make a good sandbox if they can convince their investors to let them have a bit more creative freedom than is usually permitted in the current development environment.

Remember, while many MMORPG's will be built, only a handfull will ever be considered legendary or groundbreaking over the course of the years.

 

"The discrepancy between what we know is possible and what we currently have to choose from is beyond disappointing" - GeezerGamer
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Cuathon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 2254

Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us.

1/25/12 9:41:43 AM#14
Originally posted by Kyleran

Define what you mean by "good".

Many people feel SWTOR is a good MMORPG, I tend to agree with them.   (Not a great MMO mind you, but certainly good)

Many will argue that right now LOTRO, AOC, and some others are good MMORPG's.   They might not have been so at launch, or perhaps along the way they've made changes to spoil the gameplay (a common mistake) but overall, they're pretty solid titles now even if early mistakes ruined their chances at financial greatness.

I doubt anyone will ever build another WOW, which while very popular during its run, and always a good game, was not perfect.

So yes, I think a AAA house could make a good sandbox if they can convince their investors to let them have a bit more creative freedom than is usually permitted in the current development environment.

Remember, while many MMORPG's will be built, only a handfull will ever be considered legendary or groundbreaking over the course of the years.

 

I do not believe that any themepark head designers could make a good sandbox.

  Varking

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 435

Two there should be; no more, no less. One to embody the power, the other to crave it.

1/25/12 9:43:54 AM#15

Possible? Yes. Likely? No.

  nyxium

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/09
Posts: 1198

Tumbling down the rabbit hole?

1/25/12 9:48:17 AM#16

I like EVE Online's development, even enough to sub now and again. Defititely sandbox.

  User Deleted
1/25/12 10:06:15 AM#17

I don't think any AAA dev is sufficiently in touch with the potential market for sandbox to produce one.  An Indie developed by hardcore sandbox players is more likely to produce something on target with market demand.

 

Unfortunately, the potential for an Indie to produce a quality game tends to be thwarted by lack of financing, limited existing engines designed to support sandbox play, and dare I say lack of professional management (no insult intended) capable of bringing a solid project to completion.

 

Will we ever see a solid sandbox?  I think so.  It's just going to take a while for the right team to hit the right formula.

 

Whether or not the MMORPG playerbase will accept it is another matter.  "Why can't I find my quest hub?"  "This game is total suxors, there's nothing to do"  *sigh*

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

1/25/12 10:29:44 AM#18

Eh, ToR was a good themepark.  Not a great one, and it has some flaws (grouping and uninteresting mob abilities,) but certainly a good one.

To embrace world simulation (sandbox) would be to create a game almost nobody wants.  Certainly it wouldn't have fit with Star Wars (as others often state: do you play a Star Wars videogame to be Uncle Owen, or to be one of the main characters?)

 

  Lobotomist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4699

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

1/25/12 10:31:59 AM#19

It would probably be just as bad, if not worse...

  Cuathon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 2254

Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us.

1/25/12 10:37:18 AM#20
Originally posted by Axehilt

Eh, ToR was a good themepark.  Not a great one, and it has some flaws (grouping and uninteresting mob abilities,) but certainly a good one.

To embrace world simulation (sandbox) would be to create a game almost nobody wants.  Certainly it wouldn't have fit with Star Wars (as others often state: do you play a Star Wars videogame to be Uncle Owen, or to be one of the main characters?)

 

Han was a smuggler, Leia was a diplomat, Luke was a farmer's kid. Say what? Do you mean: "To be one of the main characters within the very short timeframe of the movie after which they went back to more regular business that would bore all of you out of your fucking minds?"

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