Trending Games | ArcheAge | WildStar | Warhammer 40K: Eternal Crusade | Elder Scrolls Online

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,790,291 Users Online:0
Games:723  Posts:6,194,022
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » WoW is not a genre

3 Pages « 1 2 3 » Search
41 posts found
  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

1/24/12 1:03:16 PM#21

Well a few things have been missed on why WOW became so successful and why many think themeparks are the wya to go.

 

1- MMORPG's were kinda new at this time. A few 100k and the game was successful and massive at the time. Sandboxes and themeparks were still in the toddler stage. But majority of the players were still playing console games and single player rpgs on the pc.

2- Internet access and useage peaked during this time also. More people online = larger customer base.

3- game appeased young children as well as adults.But it was made for people that liked easy play, non indepth games.

4- todays market try to copy blizzard and make these cheesy themepark games hoping to have the "rags to riches" success blizzard did. They follow to close to WOW and in most cases try to walk in their footsteps. Even blizzard mentioned this in an article.

5- No one has taken a gamble and tried anything else.

 

Sandboxes realy didnt have a chance to get off the ground. As i said these games were still kinda new to many people. When WOW came out it was advertised well, marketed well, and attracted so many more people probably due to its name and its reputation (blizzard - war craft and starcraft). I just dont see how so many are happy with the themepark games instead of a realy good sandbox with all its features. Im sure people are just getting sick of these wow style games, but nothing better has come out so they stick with what they know and have invested a lot of time in.

On a personal note i just hate limitations, being led around, lack of player content, creativity is lost, and tired of hitting max level and only thing to do is dailies, warzones, and raids. MMO's should have a lot more. With archeage (maybe) coming to america a few months/years down the road , the repopulation and its amazing features, that sandboxes are given a new light and maybe attract more gamers and companies to work on something different than straight up themepark games.

 

Mos tthis is my speculation, but also been written about dozens of times. Im an older gamer and im sick of these childish easy dumbed down console rpgs getting released that all look and feel the same. In my opinion, im sure many here like being led around and not allowed to use their creativity to make content. Easier just to wait for content from the company i guess.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11922

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

1/24/12 1:23:22 PM#22
Originally posted by Torik

 On the other hand I see differences between WoW and its 'clones' that many other seem to just glance over.   This does not mean that I like those games but they hardly seem like just remakes of WoW

Most people here only look at only a subset of MMOs and within that group they see a range of difference For example, if you add Dungeon Fighter, Atlantica, ATITD, Mabinogi, EVE, Puzzle Pirates, Vindictus and Maple Story to the MMO list then you start to see how others can find WOW, EQ, Rift, and Aion to be extremely similar.

All to often the answer to that is "Well, some of those aren't REAL MMOs," which underscores the issue - limiting one's acceptance of what is an MMO only to WOW-like MMOs and then having issues with the feeling that all MMOs seem the same or, worse, perceiving that any of the WOW-like MMOs are really that much different from each other.

 

 

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

 
OP  1/24/12 1:33:26 PM#23
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Torik

 On the other hand I see differences between WoW and its 'clones' that many other seem to just glance over.   This does not mean that I like those games but they hardly seem like just remakes of WoW

Most people here only look at only a subset of MMOs and within that group they see a range of difference For example, if you add Dungeon Fighter, Atlantica, ATITD, Mabinogi, EVE, Puzzle Pirates, Vindictus and Maple Story to the MMO list then you start to see how others can find WOW, EQ, Rift, and Aion to be extremely similar.

All to often the answer to that is "Well, some of those aren't REAL MMOs," which underscores the issue - limiting one's acceptance of what is an MMO only to WOW-like MMOs and then having issues with the feeling that all MMOs seem the same or, worse, perceiving that any of the WOW-like MMOs are really that much different from each other.

 

 

 Well said.

And really, I think you could even take a look at a subset of MMORPGs that are fairly similar to WoW and still see how they are more different from WoW than WoW-copies.  For example, consider themeparks:

EQ, DAoC, GW (yes, not technically an MMORPG, but definitely an online themepark), and the upcoming GW2

All of these games are pretty different from WoW.  They all offer a pretty unique experience, despite the fact that they are all of the developer-guided "themepark" approach.

Now consider:

Aion, WAR, SWTOR

All of these games are extremely similar to WoW.  They all have the exact same fundamental system (dungeons, questing, warfronts, etc.) but they just have a single "twist" that's different.  In Aion you can fly.  WAR is focused on PvP.  SWTOR has VO and story.  Other than that...they are basically WoW.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  cscurlock

Novice Member

Joined: 2/04/08
Posts: 38

1/24/12 1:37:53 PM#24

Wow basically followed the rules when making an MMO.

You have 2 paths to choose.

 

1)  To compete with the 800 lb gorilla in the room you need to make a 850 lb gorilla.  Anything less is fail.  Time tested.

2) Don't make a gorilla.  This can be difficult as most investors won't take a chance that your new pink peacock is going to make the players happy.

 

So in conclusion,

Wow in 2004 went route #1 and EQ was the gorilla and the time and succeeded by making the 850 lb gorilla.

Eve went route #2 and was successul in making a niche indie game.  The pink peacock.

Swtor went route #1 and made a 400 lb gorilla which is why it will fail.

AOC, LOTR, D&D all went route #1 and their 400 lb gorillas are f2p.

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5924

1/24/12 1:39:04 PM#25
Originally posted by Arkain
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
Originally posted by Creslin321

There seems to be a spreading belief that the single game "World of Warcraft" does in fact, define a genre (or sub-genre).  And as such, it's completely valid for games to be made by shamelessly copying its model.

Personally...I don't think this could be more wrong.  WoW is a specific implementation of a "themepark MMORPG."  Other themepark MMORPGs include games like Everquest and DAoC.  These games are significantly different from WoW, so the whole "traditional themepark = WoW" argument is bunk.

IMO, WoW is far too narrow of a box to fit an entire genre in.  I mean, just think about everything that goes along with the WoW model:

1.  "Traditional" quest node leveling.

2.  Warfronts.

3.  Instanced dungeons.

4.  Auction house

5.  Two factions with open-world PvP options.

6.  Raids.

7.  Gear grind at end game.

8.  Trinity.

(EDIT:  Thought of some more)

9.  Hotkey skill bars.

10.  Talent trees.

Now ask yourself, after you implement all of these things, just how much can you actually differentiate your game from WoW???  These things will take a lot of work to implement and will pretty much define your game.

Trying to make WoW into a genre just means trying to recreate WoW with different animations and maybe a "twist."  Personally, I really think we need something different and I'm tired of devs thinking they can just copy WoW's model and have a gold mine.

Thoughts?

You just tripped over yourself. EQ & DAOC are NOT "Themeparks".  They're hybrids, and their pre-2008 existances could have been considered "light" sandbox MMORPGs.

 

The Core-Definition of a "Themepark": an MMORPG where the ENTIRE leveling process is guided by a hand-holding linear questing approach, and player design (e.g: classes/races) are barely different from any other player's design. Meaning, player choice has EXTREMELY low impact on character differentiation.

 

Additionally: Themeparks are not the first, or last apparently, to use "instancing". Instancing is a HORRIBLE mechanic used by lazy developers whom want to limit player interactions for both World-Design, and Gameplay-management down to the Nth degree. Instancing needs to be phased out completely, it creates "empty" worlds like SWTOR.

 

DAOC & EQ are NOT themeparks. True, they've implemented "some" light questing systems now to keep up with the "Casual" crowed, but more the 90% of their gameplay is free-form player choice.

When they where relesed, they where called "themeparks", and not hybrids (EQ set the standard for "themeparks") so he is right.

But you are right as well, the term has changed over the years ("themepark" standard is, at present time, set by WoW).

thats not even true at all. there are so many themepark MMO out there much different from WoW.

Aion has only 2 races for example, and flying combat and massive endgame PvP zone.

Warhammer took a whole different way of going about the themepark design by making it PvP focused instead of PvE focus. how is that a standard of WoW? in WoW before Warhammer came, the only way to gain EXP from PvP was by turning in marks in Vanilla WoW. that was long scrap before the Warhammer hype even came.

LoTRO didnt even have faction PvP. So how is it off the standards of WoW? it had player housing, as well as solo instances. and so much more, that WOW HAS NEVER DONE!!!

AoC,,, come on,,, do I really?

Vanguard,,, again fully persistent world and no PvP. how is this themepark the standard of WoW?

 

the list goes on.... Blizzard had to even go as far as to copy many of these ideas from these other games...... to make this so called Standard you all speak of...

  Ausare

Novice Member

Joined: 3/23/11
Posts: 870

1/24/12 1:39:35 PM#26

Eve's route also had the problem of not making great returns for a long time...kind of turns off big money investors.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11922

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

1/24/12 1:40:26 PM#27
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Torik

 On the other hand I see differences between WoW and its 'clones' that many other seem to just glance over.   This does not mean that I like those games but they hardly seem like just remakes of WoW

Most people here only look at only a subset of MMOs and within that group they see a range of difference For example, if you add Dungeon Fighter, Atlantica, ATITD, Mabinogi, EVE, Puzzle Pirates, Vindictus and Maple Story to the MMO list then you start to see how others can find WOW, EQ, Rift, and Aion to be extremely similar.

All to often the answer to that is "Well, some of those aren't REAL MMOs," which underscores the issue - limiting one's acceptance of what is an MMO only to WOW-like MMOs and then having issues with the feeling that all MMOs seem the same or, worse, perceiving that any of the WOW-like MMOs are really that much different from each other.

 Well said.

And really, I think you could even take a look at a subset of MMORPGs that are fairly similar to WoW and still see how they are more different from WoW than WoW-copies.  For example, consider themeparks:

EQ, DAoC, GW (yes, not technically an MMORPG, but definitely an online themepark), and the upcoming GW2

All of these games are pretty different from WoW.  They all offer a pretty unique experience, despite the fact that they are all of the developer-guided "themepark" approach.

Now consider:

Aion, WAR, SWTOR

All of these games are extremely similar to WoW.  They all have the exact same fundamental system (dungeons, questing, warfronts, etc.) but they just have a single "twist" that's different.  In Aion you can fly.  WAR is focused on PvP.  SWTOR has VO and story.  Other than that...they are basically WoW.

 

I reject the entire reply because GW is not an MMO.

 

I kid! I kid!  :)

 

Very good points about the similarities and differences when compared within different sized samples of MMOs.

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5924

1/24/12 1:44:43 PM#28
Originally posted by Onomas

Well a few things have been missed on why WOW became so successful and why many think themeparks are the wya to go.

 

1- MMORPG's were kinda new at this time. A few 100k and the game was successful and massive at the time. Sandboxes and themeparks were still in the toddler stage. But majority of the players were still playing console games and single player rpgs on the pc.

2- Internet access and useage peaked during this time also. More people online = larger customer base.

3- game appeased young children as well as adults.But it was made for people that liked easy play, non indepth games.

4- todays market try to copy blizzard and make these cheesy themepark games hoping to have the "rags to riches" success blizzard did. They follow to close to WOW and in most cases try to walk in their footsteps. Even blizzard mentioned this in an article.

5- No one has taken a gamble and tried anything else.

 

Sandboxes realy didnt have a chance to get off the ground. As i said these games were still kinda new to many people. When WOW came out it was advertised well, marketed well, and attracted so many more people probably due to its name and its reputation (blizzard - war craft and starcraft). I just dont see how so many are happy with the themepark games instead of a realy good sandbox with all its features. Im sure people are just getting sick of these wow style games, but nothing better has come out so they stick with what they know and have invested a lot of time in.

On a personal note i just hate limitations, being led around, lack of player content, creativity is lost, and tired of hitting max level and only thing to do is dailies, warzones, and raids. MMO's should have a lot more. With archeage (maybe) coming to america a few months/years down the road , the repopulation and its amazing features, that sandboxes are given a new light and maybe attract more gamers and companies to work on something different than straight up themepark games.

 

Mos tthis is my speculation, but also been written about dozens of times. Im an older gamer and im sick of these childish easy dumbed down console rpgs getting released that all look and feel the same. In my opinion, im sure many here like being led around and not allowed to use their creativity to make content. Easier just to wait for content from the company i guess.

Everquest was the first Rag to Riches not WoW!!!!

thats why WoW copied Everquest down to even Class Spell names which they didnt change until later stages of Vanilla Beta!!!

Sandbox MMO never took off like Themepark MMO, for the same reason people are now screaming about all themepark MMO not being Innovating now days.

 

name some Sandbox MMO that has been Innovating over the years? same arguement that people have against the non innovating "WoW Clones" can be applied to each and every Sandbox MMO, because they all do the same thing just look different.....

you played 1 sandbox, you played them all.... why look forward to a new sandbox if you are a burnt out consumer of sandbox MMO as is?

  Jimmy562

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/12/06
Posts: 1098

1/24/12 1:47:04 PM#29
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Torik

 On the other hand I see differences between WoW and its 'clones' that many other seem to just glance over.   This does not mean that I like those games but they hardly seem like just remakes of WoW

Most people here only look at only a subset of MMOs and within that group they see a range of difference For example, if you add Dungeon Fighter, Atlantica, ATITD, Mabinogi, EVE, Puzzle Pirates, Vindictus and Maple Story to the MMO list then you start to see how others can find WOW, EQ, Rift, and Aion to be extremely similar.

All to often the answer to that is "Well, some of those aren't REAL MMOs," which underscores the issue - limiting one's acceptance of what is an MMO only to WOW-like MMOs and then having issues with the feeling that all MMOs seem the same or, worse, perceiving that any of the WOW-like MMOs are really that much different from each other.

 

 

 Well said.

And really, I think you could even take a look at a subset of MMORPGs that are fairly similar to WoW and still see how they are more different from WoW than WoW-copies.  For example, consider themeparks:

EQ, DAoC, GW (yes, not technically an MMORPG, but definitely an online themepark), and the upcoming GW2

All of these games are pretty different from WoW.  They all offer a pretty unique experience, despite the fact that they are all of the developer-guided "themepark" approach.

Now consider:

Aion, WAR, SWTOR

All of these games are extremely similar to WoW.  They all have the exact same fundamental system (dungeons, questing, warfronts, etc.) but they just have a single "twist" that's different.  In Aion you can fly.  WAR is focused on PvP.  SWTOR has VO and story.  Other than that...they are basically WoW.

Jumping the gun on GW2 there. Nobody really knows how its going to play out. The demo time people got also isn't enough and words from developers mean very little. (Yes, it looks good but lets wait to play it seriously before making such statements).

I also hope your not implying that being extremely similar to WoW is bad. Plenty of people really enjoy that type of design. 

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

 
OP  1/24/12 2:47:02 PM#30
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Arkain
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
Originally posted by Creslin321

 

..

).

thats not even true at all. there are so many themepark MMO out there much different from WoW.

Aion has only 2 races for example, and flying combat and massive endgame PvP zone.

Warhammer took a whole different way of going about the themepark design by making it PvP focused instead of PvE focus. how is that a standard of WoW? in WoW before Warhammer came, the only way to gain EXP from PvP was by turning in marks in Vanilla WoW. that was long scrap before the Warhammer hype even came.

LoTRO didnt even have faction PvP. So how is it off the standards of WoW? it had player housing, as well as solo instances. and so much more, that WOW HAS NEVER DONE!!!

AoC,,, come on,,, do I really?

Vanguard,,, again fully persistent world and no PvP. how is this themepark the standard of WoW?

 

the list goes on.... Blizzard had to even go as far as to copy many of these ideas from these other games...... to make this so called Standard you all speak of...

 All of your examples sound all well and good until you step out of the neat little box that you have carved.  Once you add a single non WoW-copy game to the mix...the games you listed (with a possible exception of AoC) all start to seem very similar to WoW.

For example, when you only know about WoW, Aion, LOTRO, SWTOR, and Rift.  Then Rift and WoW may seem fairly different.  After all, rift has rifts, invasions, and customizable classes, WoW doesn't!

But once you add something like EQ or DAoC to the mix...all the others seem so much more similar.  The fundamental leveling mechanic in EQ and DAoC is different from WoW (no questing).  There is much less instancing in these games.  The "trinity" model in EQ was actually a...quadrinity(?) with tank, healing, damage, and control.  The classes and abilities in these games were all pretty different as well.

There are just so many fairly fundamental differences between EQ, DAoC, and WoW that it would be hard to list here.  Whereas I could list the differences between WoW and the other games I mentioned in a few sentences.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5924

1/24/12 3:40:24 PM#31
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Arkain
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
Originally posted by Creslin321

 

..

).

thats not even true at all. there are so many themepark MMO out there much different from WoW.

Aion has only 2 races for example, and flying combat and massive endgame PvP zone.

Warhammer took a whole different way of going about the themepark design by making it PvP focused instead of PvE focus. how is that a standard of WoW? in WoW before Warhammer came, the only way to gain EXP from PvP was by turning in marks in Vanilla WoW. that was long scrap before the Warhammer hype even came.

LoTRO didnt even have faction PvP. So how is it off the standards of WoW? it had player housing, as well as solo instances. and so much more, that WOW HAS NEVER DONE!!!

AoC,,, come on,,, do I really?

Vanguard,,, again fully persistent world and no PvP. how is this themepark the standard of WoW?

 

the list goes on.... Blizzard had to even go as far as to copy many of these ideas from these other games...... to make this so called Standard you all speak of...

 All of your examples sound all well and good until you step out of the neat little box that you have carved.  Once you add a single non WoW-copy game to the mix...the games you listed (with a possible exception of AoC) all start to seem very similar to WoW.

For example, when you only know about WoW, Aion, LOTRO, SWTOR, and Rift.  Then Rift and WoW may seem fairly different.  After all, rift has rifts, invasions, and customizable classes, WoW doesn't!

But once you add something like EQ or DAoC to the mix...all the others seem so much more similar.  The fundamental leveling mechanic in EQ and DAoC is different from WoW (no questing).  There is much less instancing in these games.  The "trinity" model in EQ was actually a...quadrinity(?) with tank, healing, damage, and control.  The classes and abilities in these games were all pretty different as well.

There are just so many fairly fundamental differences between EQ, DAoC, and WoW that it would be hard to list here.  Whereas I could list the differences between WoW and the other games I mentioned in a few sentences.

I will point this out to you as I have done for others.

if you could some how rate how different Everquest is from WoW to come up with some kind of Score

and than

rate how different a post WoW themepark mmo like (LoTRO, Warhammer, AoC, Aion, Vanguard, etc) is from WoW.

how much different would the two scores be?

obviously this "rating" cant be done, but its the idea of my logic that should be the major point here.

 

How different is EQ from WoW? how different is DAoC from WoW.

How Different is LoTRO from WoW?

How Different is Warhammer from WoW?

How Different is Vanguard from WoW?

How Different is what ever themepark from WoW?

 

you will see that most of these post WoW themepark MMO are as much different from WoW as these two older themepark mmo are. they may be different in their own ways, but they still are close to equally different. That doesnt mean they are Not Similar....

 

WoW is similar to Everquest as it is to every other themepark MMO.

but its also different from Everquest as it is different from every other post WoW themepark MMO is.

  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

1/24/12 3:49:31 PM#32

Current implementation of EQ1's dungeons seem great on their progression server.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/24/12 4:06:31 PM#33

theres wow like and theres wow like

WAR, AION, AOC are somewhat like WOW

SWTOR, LOTRO are a lot like WOW

RIFT & various chinese microtrans games bloody are WOW

  DarLorkar

Elite Member

Joined: 12/28/07
Posts: 526

1/24/12 4:07:34 PM#34

Umm, i kind of think you are wrong. Of course it can be argued either way for sure.

It may have not started out as a genre, but over the years it has kind of turned itself into one. As people see it anyhow.

As people here in this thread have said, even the Dev's of other games kind of see it that way. By trying to compete and or copy, or even beat it at it's on game. They kind of have to accept that it is a genre.

At the very least they have fallen into the, trap if you will, that they have to try to compete with, or do it one better to be able to survive, and or prosper along side of it.

To me, WOW is and always will be a BORG :) They assimilate each and every part of a game that will enhance their own.

They took parts from their own games, as well as games that came out both before and after theirs did. They use anything that they think may help to keep their own players coming back for more. As well as draw more in every year.

Ya, Borg, or maybe a blackhole:) Any game that gets to close to it, is in for a hard time. And pieces of it will most likely turn up in WOW before too much time  has gone by.

Genres are formed by conventions that change over time as new genres are invented and the use of old ones are discontinued. Often, works fit into multiple genres by way of borrowing and recombining these conventions.

 

The above seems to fit WOW pretty well. It started out as a part of a genre at launch, and mostly through peoples perceptions, it turned itself into it's own Genre.

 

 

 

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

 
OP  1/24/12 4:16:48 PM#35
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Arkain
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
Originally posted by Creslin321

 

..

).

thats not even true at all. there are so many themepark MMO out there much different from WoW.

Aion has only 2 races for example, and flying combat and massive endgame PvP zone.

Warhammer took a whole different way of going about the themepark design by making it PvP focused instead of PvE focus. how is that a standard of WoW? in WoW before Warhammer came, the only way to gain EXP from PvP was by turning in marks in Vanilla WoW. that was long scrap before the Warhammer hype even came.

LoTRO didnt even have faction PvP. So how is it off the standards of WoW? it had player housing, as well as solo instances. and so much more, that WOW HAS NEVER DONE!!!

AoC,,, come on,,, do I really?

Vanguard,,, again fully persistent world and no PvP. how is this themepark the standard of WoW?

 

the list goes on.... Blizzard had to even go as far as to copy many of these ideas from these other games...... to make this so called Standard you all speak of...

 All of your examples sound all well and good until you step out of the neat little box that you have carved.  Once you add a single non WoW-copy game to the mix...the games you listed (with a possible exception of AoC) all start to seem very similar to WoW.

For example, when you only know about WoW, Aion, LOTRO, SWTOR, and Rift.  Then Rift and WoW may seem fairly different.  After all, rift has rifts, invasions, and customizable classes, WoW doesn't!

But once you add something like EQ or DAoC to the mix...all the others seem so much more similar.  The fundamental leveling mechanic in EQ and DAoC is different from WoW (no questing).  There is much less instancing in these games.  The "trinity" model in EQ was actually a...quadrinity(?) with tank, healing, damage, and control.  The classes and abilities in these games were all pretty different as well.

There are just so many fairly fundamental differences between EQ, DAoC, and WoW that it would be hard to list here.  Whereas I could list the differences between WoW and the other games I mentioned in a few sentences.

I will point this out to you as I have done for others.

if you could some how rate how different Everquest is from WoW to come up with some kind of Score

and than

rate how different a post WoW themepark mmo like (LoTRO, Warhammer, AoC, Aion, Vanguard, etc) is from WoW.

how much different would the two scores be?

obviously this "rating" cant be done, but its the idea of my logic that should be the major point here.

 

How different is EQ from WoW? how different is DAoC from WoW.

How Different is LoTRO from WoW?

How Different is Warhammer from WoW?

How Different is Vanguard from WoW?

How Different is what ever themepark from WoW?

 

you will see that most of these post WoW themepark MMO are as much different from WoW as these two older themepark mmo are. they may be different in their own ways, but they still are close to equally different. That doesnt mean they are Not Similar....

 

WoW is similar to Everquest as it is to every other themepark MMO.

but its also different from Everquest as it is different from every other post WoW themepark MMO is.

 Already did that :).

 

 
  WoW Rift/Aion EQ
Abilities Every class has lots of abilities spread out through levels Every class has lots of abilities spread out through levels Only casters have lots of abilities (like D&D)
Primary Leveling Process Quest-node leveling Quest-node leveling Spawn camping OR soloing/kiting with specific classes
Endgame Raiding/PvP gear-grind Raiding/PvP gear-grind Raiding gear grind
PvP Battlegrounds, optional open-world Battlegrounds, optional open-world PvP flag or dueling, but pretty much non-existant
Group Dynamic DPS/Tank/Heal DPS/Tank/Heal DPS/Tank/Heal/Control
Dungeons Instanced, controlled group experience Instanced, controlled group experience Originally open world spawn camping dungeons, but added instanced ones with LDoN
Class Customization Talent trees Rift is very different here, but Aion has talent trees like WoW Virtually none, may have been some at very high levels, but never got there
Economy Auction House Auction House Originally just trading via chat, but later player vendors in the "Bazaar"
UI  Customizable series of hotbars that you can bind to keys Customizable series of hotbars that you can bind to keys You had a spell bar with 8(?) spells if you were a caster, then I think 8(?) actions taht you could hotkey...UI was fairly uncustomizable.

 Exact Match to WoW

Partial Match to WoW

Compeltely dissimilar from WoW

 

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5924

1/24/12 4:18:32 PM#36
Originally posted by DarLorkar

Umm, i kind of think you are wrong. Of course it can be argued either way for sure.

It may have not started out as a genre, but over the years it has kind of turned itself into one. As people see it anyhow.

As people here in this thread have said, even the Dev's of other games kind of see it that way. By trying to compete and or copy, or even beat it at it's on game. They kind of have to accept that it is a genre.

At the very least they have fallen into the, trap if you will, that they have to try to compete with, or do it one better to be able to survive, and or prosper along side of it.

To me, WOW is and always will be a BORG :) They assimilate each and every part of a game that will enhance their own.

They took parts from their own games, as well as games that came out both before and after theirs did. They use anything that they think may help to keep their own players coming back for more. As well as draw more in every year.

Ya, Borg, or maybe a blackhole:) Any game that gets to close to it, is in for a hard time. And pieces of it will most likely turn up in WOW before too much time  has gone by.

Genres are formed by conventions that change over time as new genres are invented and the use of old ones are discontinued. Often, works fit into multiple genres by way of borrowing and recombining these conventions.

 

The above seems to fit WOW pretty well. It started out as a part of a genre at launch, and mostly through peoples perceptions, it turned itself into it's own Genre.

 

 

 

I just want to point out once more, that this WoW standard that people talk so much about was found in older games than WoW. damn even EQ2, which is older than WoW.

 

SO how can WoW be the standards of this in EQ2 which is older? it has to mean that these standards come from some other game. which is why I point to the success of Everquest. Everquest is the Standard. from there, developers changed and added things.

  Banquetto

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 1026

1/24/12 4:20:38 PM#37


Originally posted by Loktofeit
EQ and DAoC can only be considered sandbox if your entire frame of reference for MMOs is themepark focused games. This is not to say I feel these are bad games at all; the assumption made around here when they see someone call their cherished MMO a themepark.

This.


The logic is quite simple.

  1. I like sandboxes, I don't like themeparks
  2. I like EQ and DAOC, I don't like WoW.
  3. Therefore EQ and DAOC are sandboxes.

Completely nonsensical logic, but simply, and internally consistent.

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5924

1/24/12 4:27:19 PM#38
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Arkain
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
Originally posted by Creslin321

 

..

).

thats not even true at all. there are so many themepark MMO out there much different from WoW.

Aion has only 2 races for example, and flying combat and massive endgame PvP zone.

Warhammer took a whole different way of going about the themepark design by making it PvP focused instead of PvE focus. how is that a standard of WoW? in WoW before Warhammer came, the only way to gain EXP from PvP was by turning in marks in Vanilla WoW. that was long scrap before the Warhammer hype even came.

LoTRO didnt even have faction PvP. So how is it off the standards of WoW? it had player housing, as well as solo instances. and so much more, that WOW HAS NEVER DONE!!!

AoC,,, come on,,, do I really?

Vanguard,,, again fully persistent world and no PvP. how is this themepark the standard of WoW?

 

the list goes on.... Blizzard had to even go as far as to copy many of these ideas from these other games...... to make this so called Standard you all speak of...

 All of your examples sound all well and good until you step out of the neat little box that you have carved.  Once you add a single non WoW-copy game to the mix...the games you listed (with a possible exception of AoC) all start to seem very similar to WoW.

For example, when you only know about WoW, Aion, LOTRO, SWTOR, and Rift.  Then Rift and WoW may seem fairly different.  After all, rift has rifts, invasions, and customizable classes, WoW doesn't!

But once you add something like EQ or DAoC to the mix...all the others seem so much more similar.  The fundamental leveling mechanic in EQ and DAoC is different from WoW (no questing).  There is much less instancing in these games.  The "trinity" model in EQ was actually a...quadrinity(?) with tank, healing, damage, and control.  The classes and abilities in these games were all pretty different as well.

There are just so many fairly fundamental differences between EQ, DAoC, and WoW that it would be hard to list here.  Whereas I could list the differences between WoW and the other games I mentioned in a few sentences.

I will point this out to you as I have done for others.

if you could some how rate how different Everquest is from WoW to come up with some kind of Score

and than

rate how different a post WoW themepark mmo like (LoTRO, Warhammer, AoC, Aion, Vanguard, etc) is from WoW.

how much different would the two scores be?

obviously this "rating" cant be done, but its the idea of my logic that should be the major point here.

 

How different is EQ from WoW? how different is DAoC from WoW.

How Different is LoTRO from WoW?

How Different is Warhammer from WoW?

How Different is Vanguard from WoW?

How Different is what ever themepark from WoW?

 

you will see that most of these post WoW themepark MMO are as much different from WoW as these two older themepark mmo are. they may be different in their own ways, but they still are close to equally different. That doesnt mean they are Not Similar....

 

WoW is similar to Everquest as it is to every other themepark MMO.

but its also different from Everquest as it is different from every other post WoW themepark MMO is.

 Already did that :).

 

 
  WoW Rift/Aion EQ
Abilities Every class has lots of abilities spread out through levels Every class has lots of abilities spread out through levels Only casters have lots of abilities (like D&D)
Primary Leveling Process Quest-node leveling Quest-node leveling Spawn camping OR soloing/kiting with specific classes
Endgame Raiding/PvP gear-grind Raiding/PvP gear-grind Raiding gear grind
PvP Battlegrounds, optional open-world Battlegrounds, optional open-world PvP flag or dueling, but pretty much non-existant
Group Dynamic DPS/Tank/Heal DPS/Tank/Heal DPS/Tank/Heal/Control
Dungeons Instanced, controlled group experience Instanced, controlled group experience Originally open world spawn camping dungeons, but added instanced ones with LDoN
Class Customization Talent trees Rift is very different here, but Aion has talent trees like WoW Virtually none, may have been some at very high levels, but never got there
Economy Auction House Auction House Originally just trading via chat, but later player vendors in the "Bazaar"
UI  Customizable series of hotbars that you can bind to keys Customizable series of hotbars that you can bind to keys You had a spell bar with 8(?) spells if you were a caster, then I think 8(?) actions taht you could hotkey...UI was fairly uncustomizable.

 Exact Match to WoW

Partial Match to WoW

Compeltely dissimilar from WoW

 

that list was totally bias, because for the Rift examples and the Aion examples, you excluded what they did different.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

 
OP  1/24/12 4:31:35 PM#39
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by DarLorkar

Umm, i kind of think you are wrong. Of course it can be argued either way for sure.

It may have not started out as a genre, but over the years it has kind of turned itself into one. As people see it anyhow.

As people here in this thread have said, even the Dev's of other games kind of see it that way. By trying to compete and or copy, or even beat it at it's on game. They kind of have to accept that it is a genre.

At the very least they have fallen into the, trap if you will, that they have to try to compete with, or do it one better to be able to survive, and or prosper along side of it.

To me, WOW is and always will be a BORG :) They assimilate each and every part of a game that will enhance their own.

They took parts from their own games, as well as games that came out both before and after theirs did. They use anything that they think may help to keep their own players coming back for more. As well as draw more in every year.

Ya, Borg, or maybe a blackhole:) Any game that gets to close to it, is in for a hard time. And pieces of it will most likely turn up in WOW before too much time  has gone by.

Genres are formed by conventions that change over time as new genres are invented and the use of old ones are discontinued. Often, works fit into multiple genres by way of borrowing and recombining these conventions.

 

The above seems to fit WOW pretty well. It started out as a part of a genre at launch, and mostly through peoples perceptions, it turned itself into it's own Genre.

 

 

 

I just want to point out once more, that this WoW standard that people talk so much about was found in older games than WoW. damn even EQ2, which is older than WoW.

 

SO how can WoW be the standards of this in EQ2 which is older? it has to mean that these standards come from some other game. which is why I point to the success of Everquest. Everquest is the Standard. from there, developers changed and added things.

 EQ2 came out two weeks before WoW.  It's older than WoW like someone is older than their twin brother.

Besides that...it doesn't matter who did what first.  All that matters is what is commonly regarded as the dominant design.  And well, that's WoW...hands down, no argument.

If I make a game that innovates features A-Y and I get 10K subscribers.  But then someone else makes a game that copies A-Y but adds Z, and they get 10 million subscribers, then guess what game will get copied?

It doesn't matter that my game innovated almost every feature in the dominant game.  The dominant game is the dominant game, and it will be the one that is copied.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

 
OP  1/24/12 4:32:51 PM#40
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Arkain
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
Originally posted by Creslin321

 

..

).

thats not even true at all. there are so many themepark MMO out there much different from WoW.

Aion has only 2 races for example, and flying combat and massive endgame PvP zone.

Warhammer took a whole different way of going about the themepark design by making it PvP focused instead of PvE focus. how is that a standard of WoW? in WoW before Warhammer came, the only way to gain EXP from PvP was by turning in marks in Vanilla WoW. that was long scrap before the Warhammer hype even came.

LoTRO didnt even have faction PvP. So how is it off the standards of WoW? it had player housing, as well as solo instances. and so much more, that WOW HAS NEVER DONE!!!

AoC,,, come on,,, do I really?

Vanguard,,, again fully persistent world and no PvP. how is this themepark the standard of WoW?

 

the list goes on.... Blizzard had to even go as far as to copy many of these ideas from these other games...... to make this so called Standard you all speak of...

 All of your examples sound all well and good until you step out of the neat little box that you have carved.  Once you add a single non WoW-copy game to the mix...the games you listed (with a possible exception of AoC) all start to seem very similar to WoW.

For example, when you only know about WoW, Aion, LOTRO, SWTOR, and Rift.  Then Rift and WoW may seem fairly different.  After all, rift has rifts, invasions, and customizable classes, WoW doesn't!

But once you add something like EQ or DAoC to the mix...all the others seem so much more similar.  The fundamental leveling mechanic in EQ and DAoC is different from WoW (no questing).  There is much less instancing in these games.  The "trinity" model in EQ was actually a...quadrinity(?) with tank, healing, damage, and control.  The classes and abilities in these games were all pretty different as well.

There are just so many fairly fundamental differences between EQ, DAoC, and WoW that it would be hard to list here.  Whereas I could list the differences between WoW and the other games I mentioned in a few sentences.

I will point this out to you as I have done for others.

if you could some how rate how different Everquest is from WoW to come up with some kind of Score

and than

rate how different a post WoW themepark mmo like (LoTRO, Warhammer, AoC, Aion, Vanguard, etc) is from WoW.

how much different would the two scores be?

obviously this "rating" cant be done, but its the idea of my logic that should be the major point here.

 

How different is EQ from WoW? how different is DAoC from WoW.

How Different is LoTRO from WoW?

How Different is Warhammer from WoW?

How Different is Vanguard from WoW?

How Different is what ever themepark from WoW?

 

you will see that most of these post WoW themepark MMO are as much different from WoW as these two older themepark mmo are. they may be different in their own ways, but they still are close to equally different. That doesnt mean they are Not Similar....

 

WoW is similar to Everquest as it is to every other themepark MMO.

but its also different from Everquest as it is different from every other post WoW themepark MMO is.

 Already did that :).

 

 
  WoW Rift/Aion EQ
Abilities Every class has lots of abilities spread out through levels Every class has lots of abilities spread out through levels Only casters have lots of abilities (like D&D)
Primary Leveling Process Quest-node leveling Quest-node leveling Spawn camping OR soloing/kiting with specific classes
Endgame Raiding/PvP gear-grind Raiding/PvP gear-grind Raiding gear grind
PvP Battlegrounds, optional open-world Battlegrounds, optional open-world PvP flag or dueling, but pretty much non-existant
Group Dynamic DPS/Tank/Heal DPS/Tank/Heal DPS/Tank/Heal/Control
Dungeons Instanced, controlled group experience Instanced, controlled group experience Originally open world spawn camping dungeons, but added instanced ones with LDoN
Class Customization Talent trees Rift is very different here, but Aion has talent trees like WoW Virtually none, may have been some at very high levels, but never got there
Economy Auction House Auction House Originally just trading via chat, but later player vendors in the "Bazaar"
UI  Customizable series of hotbars that you can bind to keys Customizable series of hotbars that you can bind to keys You had a spell bar with 8(?) spells if you were a caster, then I think 8(?) actions taht you could hotkey...UI was fairly uncustomizable.

 Exact Match to WoW

Partial Match to WoW

Compeltely dissimilar from WoW

 

that list was totally bias, because for the Rift examples and the Aion examples, you excluded what they did different.

 I made that list in a different thread, for a different reason, back in like mid-December.  I'm not inclined to do another one just so you can shoot that one down for no reason as well ;).  But you know what?  My bet is that if you add SWTOR and WAR to that list...you'll get the same kind of result.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

3 Pages « 1 2 3 » Search