Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by Epicent

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by sanosukex

 

ok so explain to me how warhammer online got pretty much same overall score as TOR also how can you only say the only issues this game has is endgame issues... I mean wow did you even watch this review?

WAR was a fun game, but the lack of entire classes and other content tend to bog it down.

 

TORs content is bugged not missing IMO.

so you agree then TOR and Warhammer are on equal footing and deserve equal reviews from all these big name game review sites? also I edited my last post adding couple more comments

I think Bioware did a far better job over all with bugs and content then Mythic did.

Mythics biggiest blunder was class balance (Bright wizards anyone?) and well missing classes bugs and miss management of other things. WAR on paper and a little bit into practice was a great game.

TOR avoids the bugs that matter to me at least, and unlike WAR the Story gave me a refreshing break from the go collect x quest and made the story important, while at least in TOR the endgame content is acceptable.

 

Can't really argue with an opinion for the other comments you made. They aren't umblanaced or anything and it seem that you just don't like it.

Also I still find it amazing everyone who defends this game can never give an reasons or examples other that "well it's my opinion it's just awsome" and that's it can't give examples or anything.. yet people who talk negative can give examples can give video and can actually have discussion about this stuff and how they feel it could be better. 

The Willfully Blind: Yes, these exist in Hate Dumb too. Similar to the willfully blind in Fan Dumb, the Hate Dumb variety will refuse to acknowledge any potential strengths or possibly even anything that was done correctly. The willfully blind may also try and convince everyone else to Hand Wave the strengths because they do not exist. They are prone to Accentuate the Negative arguments or reviews. Sometimes, they may have a single issue about the work and hate it solely because of that — usually because they stopped watching afterwards. Expect even in-depth reviews written by this hater to discuss only the parts they know and can't stand. Even if the production staff ran every decision by them, they would complain about how they "weren't asked enough". No matter what, the willfully blind will fixate on a single flaw or any weaknesses.

 

Tv Tropes aplies to everything.

 

I can list off a ton of things I think this game (Story, world design, classes ect) is doing right and I could also list off a lot of things that it does wrong (No dungeon finder a few endgames bugs ect). 

I bought the game. Unsubbed b4 free month was over. Figured if I wanted to play wow, Id be playing wow. But I'm not playing that either.

massive drop off of user base? cool story bro.

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by Snaylor47

 

I can list off a ton of things I think this game (Story, world design, classes ect) is doing right and I could also list off a lot of things that it does wrong (No dungeon finder a few endgames bugs ect). 

 again my point is why be critical when the evidence is sitting right in fornt of your face

Because at the end of the day too me the positives outweigh the negatives by a long shot.

 

I can wait for the few endgame bugs to be fixed or for them to add a better LFG system like they are in 1.2. You seem to not be able too.

 

My suggestion to you would be to unsubb and wait a few months.

good advice unfortunatly I'm a mmo nut on top of a star wars nut and there's nothing else left to play.. i'd go back to rift but got some serious issues with the graphics(texture shimmering) I can't fix but in swtor I can. 

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by Epicent

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by sanosukex

 

ok so explain to me how warhammer online got pretty much same overall score as TOR also how can you only say the only issues this game has is endgame issues... I mean wow did you even watch this review?

WAR was a fun game, but the lack of entire classes and other content tend to bog it down.

 

TORs content is bugged not missing IMO.

so you agree then TOR and Warhammer are on equal footing and deserve equal reviews from all these big name game review sites? also I edited my last post adding couple more comments

I think Bioware did a far better job over all with bugs and content then Mythic did.

Mythics biggiest blunder was class balance (Bright wizards anyone?) and well missing classes bugs and miss management of other things. WAR on paper and a little bit into practice was a great game.

TOR avoids the bugs that matter to me at least, and unlike WAR the Story gave me a refreshing break from the go collect x quest and made the story important, while at least in TOR the endgame content is acceptable.

 

Can't really argue with an opinion for the other comments you made. They aren't umblanaced or anything and it seem that you just don't like it.

Also I still find it amazing everyone who defends this game can never give an reasons or examples other that "well it's my opinion it's just awsome" and that's it can't give examples or anything.. yet people who talk negative can give examples can give video and can actually have discussion about this stuff and how they feel it could be better. 

The Willfully Blind: Yes, these exist in Hate Dumb too. Similar to the willfully blind in Fan Dumb, the Hate Dumb variety will refuse to acknowledge any potential strengths or possibly even anything that was done correctly. The willfully blind may also try and convince everyone else to Hand Wave the strengths because they do not exist. They are prone to Accentuate the Negative arguments or reviews. Sometimes, they may have a single issue about the work and hate it solely because of that — usually because they stopped watching afterwards. Expect even in-depth reviews written by this hater to discuss only the parts they know and can't stand. Even if the production staff ran every decision by them, they would complain about how they "weren't asked enough". No matter what, the willfully blind will fixate on a single flaw or any weaknesses.

 

Tv Tropes aplies to everything.

 

I can list off a ton of things I think this game (Story, world design, classes ect) is doing right and I could also list off a lot of things that it does wrong (No dungeon finder a few endgames bugs ect). 

I bought the game. Unsubbed b4 free month was over. Figured if I wanted to play wow, Id be playing wow. But I'm not playing that either.

So fact, guild wars 1 is higher on the hype meter than the old republic. oh wait.........the old republic isnt even on the released hype meter anymore. cool story bro.

Sorry I had missed this post and posted your review on another thread, I want to say great review and hope to see some more of your reviews. 

Originally posted by Souldrainer

 

Originally posted by iamflymolo

My review is posted on youtube after a month in the game!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnPxP9Xsc94

Wrong about the SI story at the 18 minute mark, the weather on Dromund Kaas which was changed in beta, the space combat rewards, completely wrong about ambient sound, and partly wrong about the quests.You further state that you have to kill every mob on the way back from a quest, but make no mention of fast travel, which I always use to skip the trip back entirely.

Nice beta footage. 

Don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of the complaints:  regurgitated dialogue being chief among them.  I never noticed the "clone" issue before though, lol.

 

PS:  Also completely wrong about changing companions.

I never went to any planets outside the starting worlds in beta. The recordings of the Dromund Kaas rain were taken a few days ago - there have been no changes to the location-based rain since launch, something that is plenty easy to fact-check for anyone who'd want to.

I took one of my characters from level 19 to level 21 just by playing through the available space combat missions and made a crap-ton of credits doing it. I guess it's just an opionion - but I think that's a lot of reward for a mini-game. 

Fast travel is only useable once ever 30 minutes (or is it 20?) so that's not a bad option, but it isn't like you can just use it all the time. The funny thing about this is - the time it takes to get from one planet to another didn't even make the review. Believe me - I could have said a lot more about slow travel.

I don't know what you mean about the SI story at the 18 minute mark.

I will annotate the section about customization. I never found the vendors and had, unfortunately, read some mis-information that they had been removed.

 I agree with the majority on the thread with this being one of the best reviews of the game to date. I love that your opinions mirror my own all while backing it with actual footage. I took more away from your personal review than any professional reviews thus far. keep up the good work. Upped your video and subbed.

Very good review indeed. Although, I would have loved seeing what you thought about combat in general...its what you will be doing most of the time in the game right?

Originally posted by musicmann

Well, review's and opinions are like you know what. I love the game and give his score an F.

hey!! hadn't seen Mr. TOR in a while 

Originally posted by Kuppa

Very good review indeed. Although, I would have loved seeing what you thought about combat in general...its what you will be doing most of the time in the game right?

Yes. It was at least 24 hours after posting that I said, "Combat! How did I forget combat?" Terrible oversite. I discusssed combat a bit, though, in my first look and my opinion hasn't changed - but still. Terrible oversite.

For the record - I feel the same about combat that I do about the graphics. It is executed very well within the style that they chose to go with so I give it high marks.

Originally posted by iamflymolo

Originally posted by Kuppa

Very good review indeed. Although, I would have loved seeing what you thought about combat in general...its what you will be doing most of the time in the game right?

Yes. It was at least 24 hours after posting that I said, "Combat! How did I forget combat?" Terrible oversite. I discusssed combat a bit, though, in my first look and my opinion hasn't changed - but still. Terrible oversite.

For the record - I feel the same about combat that I do about the graphics. It is executed very well within the style that they chose to go with so I give it high marks.

Yes, it seems that for MMO combat its responsive and flashy so it serves it purpose. But like you say, for the style they went with. Because I personally am bored to death with standard mmo combat :( The only thing that would balance that for me is a very robust character development system.

OP:

Well, I must admit I am in a quandary.

I really enjoy playing SWTOR, but I also think your review -- and in particular your criticisms of this game -- are entirely fair, valid, and spot on. You did a very good job reviewing this game.

The thing is, if one happens to be an "MMORPG" player who is VERY interested in the RPG (as I am), the MMO of choice is SWTOR. There's very little else out there. Even LotRO, with all its good "epic storyline" intentions, did not make me feel like a distinct character the way that SWTOR has done.

In fact, for all its limitations, the "RPG" of the SWTOR "MMORPG" blows the "RPG" of most other ""MMORPGs" right off the map. WoW's and Rift's "RPG" content is abysmal, imo. All these games offer on the RPG front is a whole lotta boring lore and very little sense of an individual's story/character progression beyond leveling.

As for the "MMO" part of SWTOR, though, I'd say Rift, LotRO, WoW, AoC, STO, CoX, etc., all handle the "MMO" part much better.

I still think GW1 has done the best job of merging a story-based RPG with some MMO elements, but since the GW1 platform was not persistent, it is not an MMO. I am hopeful that GW2 will (finally!) be able to offer generous helpings of both MMO goodness and RPG richness -- two great tastes that will go great together eventually, assuming some MMORPG developer finally figures out how to do it.

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by iamflymolo

Originally posted by Kuppa

Very good review indeed. Although, I would have loved seeing what you thought about combat in general...its what you will be doing most of the time in the game right?

Yes. It was at least 24 hours after posting that I said, "Combat! How did I forget combat?" Terrible oversite. I discusssed combat a bit, though, in my first look and my opinion hasn't changed - but still. Terrible oversite.

For the record - I feel the same about combat that I do about the graphics. It is executed very well within the style that they chose to go with so I give it high marks.

Yes, it seems that for MMO combat its responsive and flashy so it serves it purpose. But like you say, for the style they went with. Because I personally am bored to death with standard mmo combat :( The only thing that would balance that for me is a very robust character development system.

I can deal with the same stale combat that we have had since EQ1 but what really holds down this game is the lack of customization in the classes.. for a MMO that uses a choice based quest system they really tried their hardest to make everything else give you as little options as possible. With the class system not only do we get mirrored classes we get basically only 3 solid options for builds per class. Now ill compare this to Rift since its the only other recent MMO to come out. With rift I could basically play my cleric in a differn't way every week for months and never run out of fun combos to come up with. In rift you have a ton of abilities in the trees themselves and you can make an TON of hybrid builds that work wonders in the game hence the millions of silly build names that you will see all over the rift forums. Anyway in swtor there's no reason to really hybrid because of how the force you into roles using ammo types or stances. This in turn offers even less reason to try hybrids and makes them that more gimped compared to putting 31 points into a tree. This for me just kills the class system and makes it less interesting than even the orginal wow's that really wasn't that great to begin with. 

If they revamp the talent tree system and actually add at least 5-6 abilities per tree and get rid of all the stance/ammo specific stuff it will add so much more flexability and keep the classes from feeling so stale after playing the same thing week after week... I really don't get how bioware doesn't understand while yes we are playing a themepark here and yes I'm not suprised with how linear it is at least give us choices with everything else... choices keep people interested for long periods of time.. Hell I stayed with rift probably 4 months longer than I would have if it hadn't been for just the soul system.

Awesome, spot-on review. Thank you for this.

Originally posted by iamflymolo

Originally posted by Souldrainer

 

Originally posted by iamflymolo

My review is posted on youtube after a month in the game!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnPxP9Xsc94

Wrong about the SI story at the 18 minute mark, the weather on Dromund Kaas which was changed in beta, the space combat rewards, completely wrong about ambient sound, and partly wrong about the quests.You further state that you have to kill every mob on the way back from a quest, but make no mention of fast travel, which I always use to skip the trip back entirely.

Nice beta footage. 

Don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of the complaints:  regurgitated dialogue being chief among them.  I never noticed the "clone" issue before though, lol.

 

PS:  Also completely wrong about changing companions.

I never went to any planets outside the starting worlds in beta. The recordings of the Dromund Kaas rain were taken a few days ago - there have been no changes to the location-based rain since launch, something that is plenty easy to fact-check for anyone who'd want to.

I took one of my characters from level 19 to level 21 just by playing through the available space combat missions and made a crap-ton of credits doing it. I guess it's just an opionion - but I think that's a lot of reward for a mini-game. 

Fast travel is only useable once ever 30 minutes (or is it 20?) so that's not a bad option, but it isn't like you can just use it all the time. The funny thing about this is - the time it takes to get from one planet to another didn't even make the review. Believe me - I could have said a lot more about slow travel.

I don't know what you mean about the SI story at the 18 minute mark.

I will annotate the section about customization. I never found the vendors and had, unfortunately, read some mis-information that they had been removed.

On starting planets:

Was your video from live or beta?  I am thinking beta, because I have gone to the same waterfall as you on Dromund Kaas.  Guess what?  The waterfall makes sound.  The game also has ambient noises on Dromund Kaas, the planet you complain about.

On space combat:

You get credits and exp for space combat because it is supposed to be alternative advancement.  That is as intended.  Again, did you play in live or beta?  In late beta they toned space combat rewards down because they were OP.

On Fast Travel:

Even though you complain about quests being far apart, they are not so far that you cannot complete a handful in the same general area and then fast travel back.  Furthermore, you later complain that planets are smaller than advertised.  Is the game too large for you or too small?  Which is it? 

On SI Story:

The exact group of characters "you will never interact with again." Actually have two more ineraction sequences that play out differently based on your initial choices with them.  If you had played live for a month and had played consistently, you would be level 50 by now, and would know this.  You make the exact same mistake in your review of the Black Talon, stating that the instance is the same whether Orzik lives or dies, but it is not.  Several bosses are different, the crew acts different.  You and the rebels both do different things in the story, and you earn a different title depending on whether he lives or dies.

This video looks like a delayed beta impression to me.

Originally posted by grounnn

Originally posted by Clerigo

Originally posted by grounnn

Originally posted by Clerigo

Seems like an honest review based on your own personal opinion.

Your voice is enjoyable and you are objective most of the time. I still think this game is a major letdown, i havent played it and i wont play it at all if Bio doesnt work to change it around, but it is too soon to call for a review on this game. I would challenge you to repeat this review in a month or two by the time and if Bio ever decides to fix SWTOR by extending leveling curve and revamp the entire game design and mechanics.

+1

As of right now from what we see in the next few months, the players will be getting a small extended quest chain with a flash point, a new warzone, and they're puting in the legacy system that was left out at launch. Unfortunately I don't see how long it'll be until they extend the level curve, but at the rate that the games going I doubt it's any time soon.

I myself personally agree with most of the Review. It is clear however that the reviewer has not played all the way through yet nor has played most of the classes. Meaning he hasn't felt the repetitiveness nor has he seen how broken some of the mechanics are for the other classes.

The problem here for me is that i was expecting too much from SWTOR. I am not the kind of guy to be bashing a game when im not even playing it, but i found myself to be playing all the major launches in the last 6 years and i was ran over everytime by all of them. When SWTOR got launched and the first reviews started to drop, the words "traditional mmo design" just got control of me.

I have no doubt that this can turn out to be a very good game. Bio is a good developer with a solid team, but they failed to measure correctly the mmorpg genre state. They must act fast if they do intend to save this game, or they will be risking the same fate as AoC/ WAR...both solid games now but incomplete at the time of their launches, and now lacking player base because there are no 2nd chances anymore in this genre. You do it right at the time of the launch or you are risking losing the player base while devs work to bring it all around.

Exactly, and in my opinion they haven't lived up to all the hype that they gave their game. Even the budget that was spent on the game doesn't equate to what they have to show. Just as you said it all depends the next few months how they deal with the game that wil make or break this companies chance at success in the mmo market. 

I personally had a very bad experience with this game, even after creating 3 level 50's within the first money everything from bugs to subpar stories for the characters just didn't turn out good. Just as the OP stated it's a half  assed single player experience with a half assed mmo. So I stopped my subscription.

I really cant say if the game is worth or not the subscription. Theres sure to be some amount of fun in it. Many people are playing it...perhaps they are not very demanding players, but if you can have fun playing something well...play it i suppose. 

What i can say is this: you cant watch or read a review that points out several negative aspects in the game, bugs, graphical problems, lack of innovation, lack of end game content, etc etc and give it an average score of 85-90%....i mean come on?? What are we talking about here? Does SWTOR hits that average score for the global genre, or inside the "non-innovative-same-old-design mmorpg"??...if its the last, than i can make an effort to agree with the general scores given by almost all websites...an effort.

Good review. It really shows why this game has no staying power for the masses unfortunately. So many months of hype and hope that we all could play a great Starwars game yet to be disappointed once again.

Originally posted by Souldrainer

Originally posted by iamflymolo

Originally posted by Souldrainer

 

Originally posted by iamflymolo

My review is posted on youtube after a month in the game!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnPxP9Xsc94

Wrong about the SI story at the 18 minute mark, the weather on Dromund Kaas which was changed in beta, the space combat rewards, completely wrong about ambient sound, and partly wrong about the quests.You further state that you have to kill every mob on the way back from a quest, but make no mention of fast travel, which I always use to skip the trip back entirely.

Nice beta footage. 

Don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of the complaints:  regurgitated dialogue being chief among them.  I never noticed the "clone" issue before though, lol.

 

PS:  Also completely wrong about changing companions.

I never went to any planets outside the starting worlds in beta. The recordings of the Dromund Kaas rain were taken a few days ago - there have been no changes to the location-based rain since launch, something that is plenty easy to fact-check for anyone who'd want to.

I took one of my characters from level 19 to level 21 just by playing through the available space combat missions and made a crap-ton of credits doing it. I guess it's just an opionion - but I think that's a lot of reward for a mini-game. 

Fast travel is only useable once ever 30 minutes (or is it 20?) so that's not a bad option, but it isn't like you can just use it all the time. The funny thing about this is - the time it takes to get from one planet to another didn't even make the review. Believe me - I could have said a lot more about slow travel.

I don't know what you mean about the SI story at the 18 minute mark.

I will annotate the section about customization. I never found the vendors and had, unfortunately, read some mis-information that they had been removed.

On starting planets:

Was your video from live or beta?  I am thinking beta, because I have gone to the same waterfall as you on Dromund Kaas.  Guess what?  The waterfall makes sound.  The game also has ambient noises on Dromund Kaas, the planet you complain about.

 

On space combat:

You get credits and exp for space combat because it is supposed to be alternative advancement.  That is as intended.  Again, did you play in live or beta?  In late beta they toned space combat rewards down because they were OP.

 

On Fast Travel:

Even though you complain about quests being far apart, they are not so far that you cannot complete a handful in the same general area and then fast travel back.  Furthermore, you later complain that planets are smaller than advertised.  Is the game too large for you or too small?  Which is it? 

 

On SI Story:

The exact group of characters "you will never interact with again." Actually have two more ineraction sequences that play out differently based on your initial choices with them.  If you had played live for a month and had played consistently, you would be level 50 by now, and would know this.  You make the exact same mistake in your review of the Black Talon, stating that the instance is the same whether Orzik lives or dies, but it is not.  Several bosses are different, the crew acts different.  You and the rebels both do different things in the story, and you earn a different title depending on whether he lives or dies.

This video looks like a delayed beta impression to me.

 

All but about 1 minute of the footage was taken post-beta. I never saw anything past the starter zones in beta.

Perhaps it wasn't clear but I was complaining more about the starting planets than Dromund Kaas. The starting planets are almost completely devoid of ambiant noises; I didn't take the time to stop talking in the video long enough to demonstrate examples. Ambiance gets better off of the starting zones but still is not terribly good, imo.

I didn't play space combat in beta - only after launch. I suspect they'll be scaling this again because space combat is way too easy and, imo, should not be an alternate way to level. That doesn't mean the devs will agree with me - but generally easy things in games have rewards scaled way back eventually.

I did not complain that planets are smaller than advertised at all. I talked about what planets are vs the hype. I think planets and the world itself is nicely sized. That said, I found traveling in this game very tedius. This is an issue that is not related to planet size. Dromund Kaas, as an example, has so little openness and so many winding paths that you can end up having to traverse 50 hexes just to end up 2 hexes to the west.

The Black Talon video is not a review. It is a "look at this cool thing that I just did in swtor right after launch" video. Sorry for the inaccuracies there.

I played consistantly for a month but leveled 3 different characters so I was unable to reach level 50 with any of them. I felt this was a better way to go than to level 1 character through 1 story and then try to write a review about the game.

"can't compare quest reward mods with what you have equiped"

well if only they included a option in the options menu that alows you to have an expanded item overview that display all the stats including mod stats when you mouse over an item in the character window

hmm wouldn't that be great? oh wait it's in the fucking game

"and the quest window will reopen when you turn in another quest or changing zones"

http://shrani.si/f/O/zt/48lfpUCH/bnvcn.png

jesus fucking christ

but ofcourse, this thread is like any other thread on this matter, a circle jerk of the same people as always proclaming it to be the best review ever unlike those paid sites (christ i can't wait for those sites to give GW2 a 9 ) 

"later level companions cannot be altered"

the fuck is this shit? are you serious with this review? you do realise there are vendors that sell diffent skins for about 22k a pop for all of them right? right?

Originally posted by Enosh

"can't compare quest reward mods with what you have equiped"

well if only they included a option in the options menu that alows you to have an expanded item overview that display all the stats including mod stats when you mouse over an item in the character window

hmm wouldn't that be great? oh wait it's in the fucking game

"and the quest window will reopen when you turn in another quest or changing zones"

http://shrani.si/f/O/zt/48lfpUCH/bnvcn.png

jesus fucking christ

but ofcourse, this thread is like any other thread on this matter, a circle jerk of the same people as always proclaming it to be the best review ever unlike those paid sites (christ i can't wait for those sites to give GW2 a 9 ) 

wasn't this  already discussed? either way thanks for adding so much to the conversation it's really an inspiriation to the all positive aspects of the game and helps your point so much