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News & Features Discussion  » General: Why I'm Freaking Out Over SOPA/PIPA

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114 posts found
  darker70

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/21/08
Posts: 821

A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.
Groucho Marx

1/20/12 7:31:13 PM#61

 


For attacking DoJ and FBI websites, Anonymous can now be officially classified as terrorists.


Warrants are out.


These teenage/early 20's yuppy Europeans are going to cry themselves to sleep while shitting out of their mouths in Gitmo.


 


Are u seriously saying this or are u being sarcastic,if not sarcastic then do some research these so called 20 something Yuppies took down Stratfor the very think tank designed to defeat said yuppies,who then did a Robin Hood with all the stolen data.


 


To me this suggests some real intellect at work here,after all they have united a mass outcry and public opinion not seen in our times,so if your self violates a copy right law,or are suspected of terrorisim just think back to this post when as no doubt u are an American u are shitting it in Gitmo !!


  User Deleted
1/20/12 11:00:18 PM#62

Originally posted by BadSpock

For attacking DoJ and FBI websites, Anonymous can now be officially classified as terrorists.


Warrants are out.


These teenage/early 20's yuppy Europeans are going to cry themselves to sleep while shitting out of their mouths in Gitmo.


Was it worth not spending 99 cents for a song douche bag?


We can all agree, the way SOPA/PIPA were written badly and the lobbyist-written language they used were terrible. Awful.


Worth opposing, 100% definitely.


But you can't defend sites like Pirate Bay and Megaupload that knowingly and willfully allow the illegal distribution of copyrighted material.


Illegal = Illegal


Stealing = Stealing


Saying that something isn't worth the price because it's crap.. so it's OK to steal it is really, really niave.


Youtube does it right = user generated content = free.


Copyrighted content = stealing and blocked is A OK



 


Ok, two things. Firstly, terrorism, despite what the newspeakers in congress want you to think, involves using violence to spread terror, not just being opposed to the US government. While I do not approve of Anonymous and I think they hurt the anti-SOPA cause, they are not terrorists by any stretch of the defintion.


Secondly, megaupload really is no different than youtube. It allows user to upload content that they created themselves and hosts it for download. It complies with DMCA takedown notices. It has the support of many prominent entertainers who use it to host their content legally.


And I suggest that you get off your high anti-piracy horse. Even those coporations that are against piracy abuse copyright law. The RIAA and MPAA have a clear contempt of fair use and regard it as nonexistant. They abuse the current law by spamming takedown notices based on word searches that amount to a unsupervised computer pressing control-F over and over. And worse of all, every company that spread (and still spreads) the software that lets you file-share is owned by the same companies that are lobbying against it. CNET Download website is the primary provider of file-sharing software, and it's owned by... CBS, one of the main supporters of SOPA and PIPA. 


  korat102

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/21/09
Posts: 316

Newt: We'd better get back, 'cause it'll be dark soon, and they mostly come at night... mostly.

1/21/12 1:26:29 AM#63

Cleared because the board software won't let me delete a post it stuck up on here on my behalf when I logged in!


  korat102

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/21/09
Posts: 316

Newt: We'd better get back, 'cause it'll be dark soon, and they mostly come at night... mostly.

1/21/12 1:42:38 AM#64

Hmm, that last mesage was posted without me even giving this stupid board software the go ahead to do it. Who writes this stuff?


 


Anyway...


@ BadSpock


They're only terrorists under the US governments description of a terrorist as anyone who dares disagree with what they have to say. Look at the US government's treatment of it's own people. The Land Of The Free is looking about as free as China at the moment. You even have police drones flying overhead spying on you - it's only the fact that the American media is in the governments pocket that prevents half of the people in the US realising that they have no more freedom than the average Arab. Western governments send their people out to die fighting against the very types of regimes that they themselves run.


Douche bag? I presume that's some kind of playground insult. Not being American and being over the age of 10, I wouldn't know. It is, however, a well known fact that some people resort to insults when they sense they are losing an argument.


Personally, I'm convinced that these new laws they tried to get through have little to do with piracy and are just a way for the huge media companies to regain the control and influence they have lost due to the internet. They're panicking and intend to use these laws, or laws like them, to stifle internet based competition.


Governments go along with them because they realise other potential uses for such laws. If we fall asleep, they'll quietly introduce laws like these when we're all distracted by the latest American war in the Middle East. We'll all wake up one morning and think we've been moved to China.


The real problem is that half of the western world is sleep walking into this. They believe everything their government tells them. They actually believe they have a voice and that these things are being done on their behalf.


A final thought: Getting to vote for one of two parties that follow the same mantra every few years does not equate to democracy. Bear that in mind.


  tawess

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 1979

1/21/12 3:31:27 AM#65

Actually... Terrorist: Someone who uses terror as a mean to achive their goal. Sounds a awful lot like Anonymus to me... And before anyone actually hail them as "heroes" i like to point out  that they do infact use the exact same tactics to get what they want as every other terrorist group from ETA to IRA to Al'Qaeda... With the sole difference of doing it on-line. This is ofc good since it keeps the bodycount down but it is still pretty much the same thing.


 


Tomas Soapbox

This have been a good conversation

  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2677

1/21/12 3:39:16 AM#66

 

I find the laws ridiculous but you know what's more ridiculous? The US government trying to screw with the affairs of other countries. I mean it is one thing to come up with some stupid laws for your own country but when your laws affect other countries as well, now that's absolutely ridiculous.

 

Originally posted by tawess

Actually... Terrorist: Someone who uses terror as a mean to achive their goal. Sounds a awful lot like Anonymus to me... And before anyone actually hail them as "heroes" i like to point out  that they do infact use the exact same tactics to get what they want as every other terrorist group from ETA to IRA to Al'Qaeda... With the sole difference of doing it on-line. This is ofc good since it keeps the bodycount down but it is still pretty much the same thing.


 

I wouldn't classify taking a government website as "terror". Terrorists kill people. True both groups don't approach the problem peacefully but no blood is spilt. So they can't really be compared.
I don't agree with their methods but I don't like what the US government is doing either. 
Because of the US government I couldn't use wikipedia all day. Wikipedia should block the US from accessing their website... Why do other English countries had to put up with this is beyond me.

 

Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  User Deleted
1/21/12 4:13:45 AM#67



Originally posted by tawess



Actually... Terrorist: Someone who uses terror as a mean to achive their goal. Sounds a awful lot like Anonymus to me... And before anyone actually hail them as "heroes" i like to point out  that they do infact use the exact same tactics to get what they want as every other terrorist group from ETA to IRA to Al'Qaeda... With the sole difference of doing it on-line. This is ofc good since it keeps the bodycount down but it is still pretty much the same thing.







 





I agree. No one should protest about anything, because any sort of protest is an act of terrorism and that's bad.


 


.. and SOPA/PIPA is not a weapon that corporations like SONY could and would use against competitors, that would be a bad thing and the American government would stop that from happening.




Wouldn’t it?  Please someone tell me it would protect us from bad laws, please.




 

  Silverbranch

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/31/10
Posts: 183

Wherever you go, there you are.

1/21/12 6:26:42 AM#68

Originally posted by MattNe

All the SOPA uproar makes me laugh.




See, I like to try and look at the big picture.




SOPA is a symptom of the bigger problem. a bigger problem of 'Bigger Brother'. To me it almost sounds like a plot out of those classic's I read by Bradbury and Huxley. Movies I saw like Logan's Run.




If you arent against SOPA you are against Free Speech, and for Government controling your life.




Take a minute and read: "Brave New World" by Huxley, and "Farehneight 451" by Bradbury. Then call whatever 'democratic' represenative you have and scream at them to stop teh maddness.





 


At the same time we DO have to blame parasites engaged in Piracy for the problem also.  Simply waving about "free speech", and "infringing on Freedom", is childish, the sheeple response Piracy advocates want of the situation.


There are going to be lots of problems over this coming up I predict, not the least of which the OP pointed out.  At the same time we DO need to NOT have our vision side-lined by those who most wish it, those that profit from inappropriate pirating of other people's intellectual efforts.


My guess is most of you are fairly intelligent, so lets check some human nature reflex points:  Prior to the Internet engaging in Piracy involved a whole lot more effort given the physical MEDIA in operation by which that would occur.  Hard copy.  Publishing/publishers.  You had copyright infringement around, but it's prevalence was regulated not only by laws protecting the owners of intellectual works, but by the simple fact it was physically harder to accomplish.


Now?  Anyone can get ahold of about anything almost intantly and be off with it in a matter of seconds.  The World if FILLED with people who want recognition, a buck, whatever, and the floodgates have been opened with the "freedom", and instant data-power of the Internet Pipleline.  No matter how you want to debate the topic, or think "freedom" is completely open ended with no constraints or boundaries (it's not, never has been, ever, and can never be it's impossible), the fact remains Piracy entered a Golden Age when the gates to the Internet opened up.


A solid solution does need to be found.  But getting to that solution is going to take true, mature, objective HARD CORE thought, not reactionism where people curl all up taking sides out of bias and rabid "moral position".


I've had articles pirated, copied in total, to other people's blogs and sites, zero reference or link back to my article site where I should be getting the hit . . . because of the open ended nature of the Internet, search tools, cut/paste, and no real way to protect oneself as an actual creative souls (as opposed to a lazy Thief) except in after-the-fact, large scale effort on my part, as the OP pointed out in her post.  While the Thieves have for the most part ez-street.


I've written some articles, been published in a couple of magazines.  Write stories some, have some that have, surprisingly to me, filled out to where I actually believe they could be an animation or even movie someday . . . if I had the contacts and can get the storyboards filled out properly.


 


 


Wherever you go, there you are.

  stragen001

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/09/09
Posts: 1737

Mr Flibble is VERY cross

1/21/12 6:46:59 AM#69

This legislation is rediculous. So glad the massive public outrage has made them shelve it for now.




If it passed then the biggest offender would be google. They link to just about everything on the internet, including LOTS of pirated stuff. As they are linking to it, even though they are not hosting it they would be liable. Thats how rediculous this is. 




It was never going to be effective. Just look at The Pirate Bay. They had a massive raid and got all of their servers stolen etc etc, but were back up and running at full capacity within 4 days. I have heard rumours that megaupload is back as well under a different IP.




Its all about massive corporations like viacom, sony, disney etc wanting to control the internet because they didnt react fast enough and provide a viable way for people to access their content digitally when the technology was emerging. They went down the route of Blu-Ray/HD-DVD when the rest of the world was thinking digitally. Now the technology to pirate content is far more developed and widespread than legal sources and they are panicking because they are going to become extinct. 




Its not the artists that support SOPA, in general (except metallica et al) the artists want their work to be seen by as many people as possible. Popular recording artists are already producing music themselves to a professional standard and releasing it online for free, or very little(radiohead etc) completely bypassing the recording companies. Artists dont make much money from record sales anyway. They get their big advance for signing and make money from concerts, but the record company takes 90% of the money from sales...




It also shows just how corrupt the US political system is. In the UK its illegal for a company/person to give money to an elected official to support their cause because it leads to politicians not doing the will of those who elected them, instead doing the will of those who bribe them. Sadly the US political system is based around these bribes. Why do you think people/companies give money to Presidential campaigns? The whole system needs to be changed to stop travesties like SOPA happening. 











 




 

Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7699

Logic be damned!

1/21/12 8:34:48 AM#70

The bills, as they were, like 99% of what happens in US politics, were lobbyist written garbage.

Of course the mega-corps would love to control everything, if they were allowed to, but they still have to answer to the people in same fashion and the protests were loud enough to shelve this terrible legislation.

That is something I don't think anyone here disagrees with.

 

But that doesn't take away from the illegality of copyright infringement nor does it somehow make it "OK" to steal.

 

As I understand it, megaupload was shut down because they were found to be actively paying people in some cases to seed copyrighted material for illegal download/sharing. Pretty clear night and day violation of law, and in my view morally wrong as well.

Yes, the mega-corps are fighting to save a dying business model, and they need to get with the times and realize that things have changed.

Look at why Netflix is so popular and why Blockbuster is shut down. Hell, even Kodak the once-great staple of film is now bankrupt.

 

Instead of innovating and offering services people are willing to pay for, they are fighting to the last breath to save their crumbling media models.

That, also, is something I don't think anyone here disagrees with.

 

The point, however, is that none of this justifies knowingly and willfully downloaded media that you KNOW is copyrighted, and there is no justification for willfully breaking the law.

 

Anonymous are not heroes, they are criminals and deserve any punishment they receive when they are brought to justice.

Good luck though FBI anti-hackers and such, good luck lol

 

Voluntary boycott of goods/services, voluntary black outs, etc. are the PROPER, legal way to oppose something like SOPA. Make your voice heard, vote with your wallets because $ is the one language they'll understand most clearly.

Hacking DoJ / FBI websites and such is NOT.

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  tawess

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 1979

1/21/12 9:19:17 AM#71

Originally posted by fivoroth

 



I find the laws ridiculous but you know what's more ridiculous? The US government trying to screw with the affairs of other countries. I mean it is one thing to come up with some stupid laws for your own country but when your laws affect other countries as well, now that's absolutely ridiculous.


 




Originally posted by tawess


Actually... Terrorist: Someone who uses terror as a mean to achive their goal. Sounds a awful lot like Anonymus to me... And before anyone actually hail them as "heroes" i like to point out  that they do infact use the exact same tactics to get what they want as every other terrorist group from ETA to IRA to Al'Qaeda... With the sole difference of doing it on-line. This is ofc good since it keeps the bodycount down but it is still pretty much the same thing.




 



I wouldn't classify taking a government website as "terror". Terrorists kill people. True both groups don't approach the problem peacefully but no blood is spilt. So they can't really be compared.


I don't agree with their methods but I don't like what the US government is doing either. 


Because of the US government I couldn't use wikipedia all day. Wikipedia should block the US from accessing their website... Why do other English countries had to put up with this is beyond me.



 




 


No i think you are wrong. Anonumus have a very bad habit of taking a non-compromising stand that basically says "it is they way we want it or the button is pushed" and they use fear and threats to bend people to their way. How is this any different from any other terroist group. The fact that they have YET to directly kill anyone is insubstansial to the fact. After all the only reason terrorists kill people is because it is the easiest and quickest way to build a connection between the actions of the groups and fear.


 


Not saying people should not protest... just saying that there are better ways to do it then to set off the digital version of a bomb at the source of your irritation. Then again... Maybe that is a new way of doing it... Let's go down to the local Tax office and toss a few rocks through the windows... Or pring large posters with all the information about the poeple who work there and paste them all over town.


Or why not simply park huge trucks infron of the doors to the postal offices...


 


Not an OK strategy in my mind, and still a form of terrorism in my mind.


Tomas Soapbox

This have been a good conversation

  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1835

1/21/12 9:37:31 AM#72

Mythic did it right with DAoC. There's no need for a community forum, because you can get all the feedback you need through feedback forms like Mythic had for DAoC. Forums are almost nothing but a place where people whine, complain, and troll. I'm fine without forums. So this addresses your first point. Your second point is moot if the first point is followed.


  Yuui

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/07
Posts: 722

1/21/12 10:13:44 AM#73


Originally posted by tawess
Actually... Terrorist: Someone who uses terror as a mean to achive their goal. Sounds a awful lot like Anonymus to me... And before anyone actually hail them as "heroes" i like to point out  that they do infact use the exact same tactics to get what they want as every other terrorist group from ETA to IRA to Al'Qaeda... With the sole difference of doing it on-line. This is ofc good since it keeps the bodycount down but it is still pretty much the same thing. 

Oh I guess those who paint signs and stuff with airbrushes on the walls in the streets illegally are ALSO terrorists then and should all be sent to some secret version of Guantanamo bay to be interrogated, and spied upon then?

SOPA is pretty much online version of Patriot Act - an authoritarian anti-constitutional idea that some mega-corporations or organizations found "useful".

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  Hrica

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/31/05
Posts: 1137

"Yesterday is history, Tomorrow a mystery, and today is a gift"

1/21/12 10:18:29 AM#74

These laws will not pass.

 

Reid a some Ranking GoP already blocked the vote.

 

Every polition is tip toe-ing around it.

 

Kinda like privatizing Social Security, any politican who brings it up is shot down.

 

 

BUT now big corprate America wants it, all the drug companies, motion pictures etc etc.

If they can BUY the politians, which is done everyday by lobbiest, some form of law may be past in a few years.

  tawess

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 1979

1/21/12 10:26:02 AM#75
Originally posted by Yuui

 


Originally posted by tawess
Actually... Terrorist: Someone who uses terror as a mean to achive their goal. Sounds a awful lot like Anonymus to me... And before anyone actually hail them as "heroes" i like to point out  that they do infact use the exact same tactics to get what they want as every other terrorist group from ETA to IRA to Al'Qaeda... With the sole difference of doing it on-line. This is ofc good since it keeps the bodycount down but it is still pretty much the same thing. 

 

Oh I guess those who paint signs and stuff with airbrushes on the walls in the streets illegally are ALSO terrorists then and should all be sent to some secret version of Guantanamo bay to be interrogated, and spied upon then?

SOPA is pretty much online version of Patriot Act - an authoritarian anti-constitutional idea that some mega-corporations or organizations found "useful".

No... Unless they actually state that "Yeah... unless you do as we say, we will repaint your entire building/(insert thing here) with defamation test and images." If they do... Yes.. then you should most likley take them in to at least police custody. If they just do it... Then i just think they should be fined and forced to clean it up... preferably with a toothbursh...

 

You are so intent on being offended that you fail to see what i am saying... If somone said: Yeah... We are going to hack in to the bank and spread every ones details including personal spending and account information if site X(who is connected to the bank) does not do Y... Would that be OK with you as a customer of that bank.

 

In my mind.. it is not. And that is the type of "heroism" that Anonymus do....

Tomas Soapbox

This have been a good conversation

  Codenak

Novice Member

Joined: 12/23/08
Posts: 418

1/21/12 11:33:28 AM#76

SOPA and PIPA may not pass, but do you expect politicians in pursuit of campaign donations to not introduce some bill to placate the Hollywood moguls who have already threatened to stop contributing to those politicianms that don't stay bought?


Source: http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/205491-consumer-group-accuses-hollywood-of-threatening-politicians


So i would expect watered down versions of the bills to be introduced that can be strengthened later. You cant relax, because they wont relax in the pursuit of money.


Video explaining SOPA/PIPA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9h2dF-IsH0I 14 minutes but a good explanation.


F2P/P2P excellent thread.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/282517/F2P-An-Engineers-perspective.html

  Yuui

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/07
Posts: 722

1/21/12 11:42:54 AM#77


Originally posted by tawess


Originally posted by Yuui
 



Originally posted by tawess
Actually... Terrorist: Someone who uses terror as a mean to achive their goal. Sounds a awful lot like Anonymus to me... And before anyone actually hail them as "heroes" i like to point out  that they do infact use the exact same tactics to get what they want as every other terrorist group from ETA to IRA to Al'Qaeda... With the sole difference of doing it on-line. This is ofc good since it keeps the bodycount down but it is still pretty much the same thing. 



 
Oh I guess those who paint signs and stuff with airbrushes on the walls in the streets illegally are ALSO terrorists then and should all be sent to some secret version of Guantanamo bay to be interrogated, and spied upon then?
SOPA is pretty much online version of Patriot Act - an authoritarian anti-constitutional idea that some mega-corporations or organizations found "useful".


No... Unless they actually state that "Yeah... unless you do as we say, we will repaint your entire building/(insert thing here) with defamation test and images." If they do... Yes.. then you should most likley take them in to at least police custody. If they just do it... Then i just think they should be fined and forced to clean it up... preferably with a toothbursh...

And those street painters are doing it to either promote their art or promote their ideals too and quite a lot of those things have ideological meanings and messages.

Or hell, people doing flashmobs are also terrorists.
Or people going out to the streets to protest and saying they won't stop till they are heard are ALSO terrorists and should be tortured for information then?

People go around with the words "hacking", but what the so called anonymous(i refuse to call them that since anonymous is a virtual public unconsciousness and not some sort of organized or real group) did this time IS pretty much virtual equivalent of coming to some government building and painting a message on it. Not even that. Its more like painting some mesasge on A government POSTER(since thats exactly what those websites are).

Sure in some totalitarian state that is punishable in the same vein as terrorism, but in normal democratic society, thats the same as unsanctioned protest and is in no way same as terrorism.

Its funny that its already what, ten years since USA started using that as excuse for everything and some people STILL do it? I guess term "terrorist" is a new bogeyman that has replaced cold war period's "communist" bogeyman.

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  eycel

Novice Member

Joined: 4/15/06
Posts: 1339

pew pew

1/21/12 11:48:26 AM#78

With the closing of megaupload, and 50 sites that connect to it, I dont see why they dont just pass SOPA/PIPA, I say its worse they can take down individual sites without a second glance from the millions of people that use it every day including me. 

Maybee they can make a few hundread thousand more jobs for people that all they do all day is watch the interent for online piracy, thats money well spent, lmao.

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

1/21/12 11:55:15 AM#79
Originally posted by eycel

With the closing of megaupload, and 50 sites that connect to it, I dont see why they dont just pass SOPA/PIPA, I say its worse they can take down individual sites without a second glance from the millions of people that use it every day including me. 

Maybee they can make a few hundread thousand more jobs for people that all they do all day is watch the interent for online piracy, thats money well spent, lmao.

I remember your previous post about how there should be no copy protection on anything, pirating software is not bad, its not like stealing a car because your making a copy, there is no value in the creative element etc etc.   

You probably have terabytes of pirated music, movies and games dumped on a network storage device and cant stand the thought of having to pay for somthing youve probably been stealing most of your life.

  Olgark

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 287

1/21/12 11:58:05 AM#80

Some MMO's that are up and coming ask for ideas on what the players would like to see in their games in the way of clothes and tattoo's etc.


Of course the easiest way for any user to show what they like is to post a link or picture thats already on the net. SOAPA and PIPA would kill this interaction.


What amazed me all about this is that I was speaking to an American the other day and he had never heard of this SOAPA or PIPA. When I told him about it he asked what dumb country thought of that law..........


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