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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » How do game companies get it so wrong?

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142 posts found
  dronfwar

Novice Member

Joined: 10/14/11
Posts: 323

1+1=1
(IMO)

1/20/12 11:38:59 AM#41

I think all of them MMOs are kind of girly and it is not possible to create a game that attracts both genders equally.

Bioware's is also a candidat for that. It should be clear from the start who the suits trying to attract.

The same you have in the music industry, there are target audiences for different styles of music.

It's your free choice if you want to play a game that was created for males.

But both genders will suffer if you try to combine Hello Kitty and DOOM.

The interest are just too different.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/20/12 11:39:12 AM#42
I think ego is a factor
"look at this awesome raid we designed"
"look at this awesome battleground we designed"
Rather than "look at these systems we put in place to enable longevity by other players being the content"
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/20/12 11:43:00 AM#43
Seanm:
Agree, programming is a creative job, its not number crunching, programming is finding ways to solve problems creatively, programers make micro design decisions like every 5 minutes as part of they're job.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/20/12 11:51:49 AM#44
To add people not in the industry think of programming as "production"

But its not, pressing the dvd is production. Programming is r&d

Most of the better companies don't user analysts / designers / programmers etc.. they use "developers"

Heck if you write test first - code second style
There is a strong argument that testing is analysis and coding is design

As for the personality types, the ideal that you need to he kind of anal and fixed on a task to program is a misnomer, most programmers, particular in harder fields like games are typically a bit flaky and disorganised from my experience. They need the more anal retentive types to do the paperwork for them.
  FrostWyrm

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 1038

1/20/12 11:54:27 AM#45
Originally posted by dronfwar

I blame the women.

They not only try to attract children they also try to attract women and that is a big mistake.

We don't have mixed football teams. Physical education in school is also seperated and the same goes for gaming.

Girls like makeup but i don't want that shit in my game.

Sorry but it's the truth. 

Sounds like someone got majorly pwnd by a chick. If it makes you feel any better, just keep telling yourself she was probably a dude IRL.

  dronfwar

Novice Member

Joined: 10/14/11
Posts: 323

1+1=1
(IMO)

1/20/12 12:04:53 PM#46
Originally posted by FrostWyrm
Originally posted by dronfwar

I blame the women.

They not only try to attract children they also try to attract women and that is a big mistake.

We don't have mixed football teams. Physical education in school is also seperated and the same goes for gaming.

Girls like makeup but i don't want that shit in my game.

Sorry but it's the truth. 

Sounds like someone got majorly pwnd by a chick. If it makes you feel any better, just keep telling yourself she was probably a dude IRL.

sure sure of course.

  TotTWriter

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/09
Posts: 55

1/20/12 12:17:47 PM#47
Originally posted by dronfwar

I think all of them MMOs are kind of girly and it is not possible to create a game that attracts both genders equally.

Bioware's is also a candidat for that. It should be clear from the start who the suits trying to attract.

The same you have in the music industry, there are target audiences for different styles of music.

It's your free choice if you want to play a game that was created for males.

But both genders will suffer if you try to combine Hello Kitty and DOOM.

The interest are just too different.

I still don't think it's a case of "design a game for men" or "design a game for women". It's more "design a game for people who like X feature", or "design a game for people who like Y feature". If the majority of that audience happens to be one gender over the other, then so what? Why exclude people who are interested in your product because they happen to be the opposite gender to the majority of your playerbase? 

I know men who love FPS and I know men who enjoy The Sims. I know women who enjoy both types of game too. At the end of the day, categorising an aspect of gameplay as only for one gender only makes this problem worse. If the suits stopped trying to make games for men and games for women, and started making more games for people who enjoy a specific gameplay type instead, perhaps this part of the problem would go away.

Reality Bites. I'm only Barking

  ForTheCity

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/10/11
Posts: 289

1/20/12 12:17:52 PM#48

i think developers should do whatever they want. they still need to please the people in order for them to get us to play their games. they shoudl take into consideration what people want but majority of the people can't agree on one thing. its like should i get a pepsi or coke. 

it's hard for developers to please everyone since they're not trying to please just 1 person, but they have in minds millions of people. 

  dronfwar

Novice Member

Joined: 10/14/11
Posts: 323

1+1=1
(IMO)

1/20/12 12:40:16 PM#49
Originally posted by TotTWriter
If the suits stopped trying to make games for men and games for women, and started making more games for people who enjoy a specific gameplay type instead, perhaps this part of the problem would go away.

I agree with that but I don't think that it is so easy because of art styles and overall presentation. The only games I could call genderless would be games like chess, poker, backgammon, tabletops and card games. I haved played the Sims too but I still think it is a game for girls and I lost interest in that very fast.

  mgilbrtsn

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/14/09
Posts: 1292

He who fights and runs away... misses out on the loot

 
OP  1/20/12 4:52:36 PM#50

I'll tell you the truth.  I'm not sure what 'the community' wants.  Depending on what camp you're in  'sandbox or not.'  'pvp or not' 'death penalties or not'  Many of these factions tend to be more vocal than the majority of players, I believe.  Because of this, I understand how games will alienate a certain amount of the gaming population.  Let be honest with ourselves.  The MMO community (at least on the forums), tend to be a very fanatical group.  I want sandbox and everything themepark is bad, or visa versa.  I could point to many examples.  Thats not to say that my generalization fits everyone, so please don't flame me.  Its just my impression from lurking and participating in these forums.

Because of this type of polorized community, one or another faction is gonna feel left out.  So I understand, why an MMO fails to get some slice of the pie, so to speak.  But some games, and once again, I'll point to STO and CO seem to have failed to get a significant slide of any of the pie.  If you're going out of your way to make a themepark or sandbox or pvp centric or pve centric, you should at least get a share of those pieces of pie, if you researched or done any kind of analysis on your piece of pie.  But some companies seem to fail to do this.  That's what I just don't understand.

They are coming for you!

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

1/20/12 5:01:53 PM#51

"It's more "design a game for people who like X feature", or "design a game for people who like Y feature"."

Thats part of the problem, the goal has not been "design a good game" for a looong time...

  ImNoSuperMan

Novice Member

Joined: 12/14/11
Posts: 7

1/20/12 5:07:28 PM#52

they do survays but usually it is with a small group of people which is meant to portray the idea(s) of the masses.  In their defence there is a fine line to get the perfect game as in is very much up to ones opinion, in saying that though taking a step back and stop thinking THEY know what is best for the masses and start listening to the opinions (because if an idea is good the masses will flock to that idea!)

  VengeSunsoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4874

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

1/20/12 5:07:32 PM#53

A game is said to be good if it has features that X or Y people like and they are implemented well.

Every game has been designed to target people that like X or Y features - without exception.

 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

1/20/12 5:31:34 PM#54
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

A game is said to be good if it has features that X or Y people like and they are implemented well.

Every game has been designed to target people that like X or Y features - without exception.

 

And yet most of the fail, even if many X Y Z Q W E R T features anre implemented well, or doesnt "implemented well" also mean "fitting the big picture and being meaningful" ?

 

  orsonstfu

Novice Member

Joined: 2/12/08
Posts: 205

1/20/12 5:35:42 PM#55

The reason that games fail is they copy the market leader. Fall short of doing the things the market leader does well.

Lets take WoW and SWTOR.

SWTOR looked at wow and EA was like lets shoot for having everything WOW does but we'll add a spin Voice Overs to it.

So the game plays like WoW, quests like wow, pvp's like WoW.... but it does all those things worse than WoW does. The only improvement over WoW is the fluff addittion of voice overs.

What they don't seem to be understanding is that if a player wants to play WoW - they will play WoW.

The fundamental problem they all seem to have is that they think they can do WoW better than WoW and they ALWAYS fail.

  VengeSunsoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4874

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

1/20/12 5:42:17 PM#56
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

A game is said to be good if it has features that X or Y people like and they are implemented well.

Every game has been designed to target people that like X or Y features - without exception.

 

And yet most of the fail, even if many X Y Z Q W E R T features anre implemented well, or doesnt "implemented well" also mean "fitting the big picture and being meaningful" ?

 

Yep they do, just like most businesses fail.  However they still designed them with the idea of attacting X player because X player likes X function.

They either mis-interpreted what X player likes, or the game was just crappy, or bad marketing or any other meriad reasons.

But they area all implementing things they think that player would like.

Venge

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

1/20/12 5:45:40 PM#57
Originally posted by mgilbrtsn

I was wondering how game companies who obviously have put a lot of time and money into a game, can so miss the mark on what the gaming community wants.

Mostly because gamers don't all want the same thing.

Check out the perpetual sandbox/themepark thread.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Loke666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16810

1/20/12 5:50:50 PM#58
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by mgilbrtsn

I was wondering how game companies who obviously have put a lot of time and money into a game, can so miss the mark on what the gaming community wants.

Mostly because gamers don't all want the same thing.

Check out the perpetual sandbox/themepark thread.

And yet we always get the same game, that should really tell the devs something.

I don´t really think that the sandbox Vs Themepark debate is relevant here. The problem is more that more or less all devs try to remake the same game because it made lots of money but that means they only target the fans of that certain game who already are playing that game.

Time to make a game for people who want something different as well, those people should be easier to get because they don´t have a zillion similar game competing for their attention.

  nariusseldon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

1/20/12 5:54:30 PM#59
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

A game is said to be good if it has features that X or Y people like and they are implemented well.

Every game has been designed to target people that like X or Y features - without exception.

 

And yet most of the fail, even if many X Y Z Q W E R T features anre implemented well, or doesnt "implemented well" also mean "fitting the big picture and being meaningful" ?

 

"fitting the big picture and being meaningful"  is just wishy washy vague talk.

 

  HolaHola

Novice Member

Joined: 2/21/08
Posts: 68

1/20/12 6:17:18 PM#60

There are many reason why some games fail, just as with every other product. My personal opinion is that game companys in certain cases skip testing all areas of the game enough, or they do not now how to test the different parts in the right manner.

So how can that be? Well first of all it is time consuming, resource heavy and requires expertise from the right people. There is a lot of people educated in the field of HCI (well a lot is not really true), but few educated specfically for testing and designing games. However skipping the part of proper testing has showed over and over again in software development to be fatal to the projects. 

Talking about education and games leads me too the second problem. Game design and testing as a specfic field is realatively new compared to many others. This means that some people in the business came through other doors into game design. However this dosent mean that they cannot be brilliant at what they do. Just that some people might lack some tools/a foundation which you can get from a high degree of education. 

Last thing i will point out is that i think companys really need to re-think their target groups. Limiting the target group will ofcause make the game more niche, but also much easier to fit too the needs of the players. So yes, maybe they will not make the same profit WoW does. But a playerbase of lets say 200K loyal players can still turn out with great profit, and as the market grows so might the player base.

Just my 5 cent on a really complex topic.

Playing: League of Legends!

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