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Originally posted by Yamota

Or maybe they just dont like it?

---

As for why Vegetto's criticisms fail, I'll break them down for you:

Dull visuals — people are entitled to their opinions, but "black space"? Try a wide variety of nebulae in the background, asteroid fields, planets, moons, stargates, wormholes, warp tunnels, space stations, scenery during missions, etc. It's a spacefaring game. The environment isn't going to be packed with "stuff" 100% of the time on every screen. Also, the visual design is some of the best in the industry.

UI is best available — Bullcrap, every EVE player complains about the archaic UI. This is a sure sign of someone who's pretending to praise a few good points to make himself more believable while peddling nonsense criticisms.

May as well just be given an Excel workbook — Should have stopped reading there to be honest. This is a stereotype by now, perpetrated and parroted by mindless EVE haters. No one who has played the game for a month or more feels this way.

Not actually complex, only seems that way — Sure sign of a carebear who never left his comfort zone.

Feels lifeless 90% of the time — You're doing it wrong. If you want constant activity, there are corps and alliances who offer frequent or even constant fights and excitement.

please don't forget, the reviewer in the vid is reviewing the 2008 eve.  it's 2012 now.  it's similar but certainly more new player friendly and there are a lot more interesting activities pvp wise and story wise than there were in 2008.

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Originally posted by itchmon

it's similar but certainly more new player friendly....

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If you're referring to the skill queue, the removal of learning skills and the evolution of out-of-game resources and applications, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

If you're referring to the ability of new players to be upwardly mobile, I disagree. Nullsec bittervets and PvPers in general are more elitist and paranoid than ever. The price of entry for the (fairly) new Incursion content is also quite high.

I half-expect Malcanis to pop in here and present eloquent arguments and biased, out-of-context examples (TEST is new-player friendly [but you have to be a Redditor]! We invited a brand-new player to our alliance [but he was a personal friend of a director IRL]!), but no matter. Old-guard EVE players can't be bothered with rookies anymore.

Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

 

---

Originally posted by itchmon

 

it's similar but certainly more new player friendly....

---

 

If you're referring to the skill queue, the removal of learning skills and the evolution of out-of-game resources and applications, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

If you're referring to the ability of new players to be upwardly mobile, I disagree. Nullsec bittervets and PvPers in general are more elitist and paranoid than ever. The price of entry for the (fairly) new Incursion content is also quite high.

I half-expect Malcanis to pop in here and present eloquent arguments and biased, out-of-context examples (TEST is new-player friendly [but you have to be a Redditor]! We invited a brand-new player to our alliance [but he was a personal friend of a director IRL]!), but no matter. Old-guard EVE players can't be bothered with rookies anymore.

Its not hard to be a reddit user, lots of nullsec alliances have training wings where the only requirements are a low number of skill points and a willingness to learn.

---

Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

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Originally posted by Yamota

Or maybe they just dont like it?

---

 
Except that his criticisms are objectively ridiculous on several different fronts, and his comments on the MMORPG.com Players' Choice results are simply petty — i.e., claiming EVE only won because EVE communities linked to the contest. That's just dumb when you consider that 1.) other MMO communities are perfectly capable of doing the same, and 2.) only a small portion of EVE's already compact player base are actually active on the official forums or Failheap Challenge.

As for why Vegetto's criticisms fail, I'll break them down for you:

Dull visuals — people are entitled to their opinions, but "black space"? Try a wide variety of nebulae in the background, asteroid fields, planets, moons, stargates, wormholes, warp tunnels, space stations, scenery during missions, etc. It's a spacefaring game. The environment isn't going to be packed with "stuff" 100% of the time on every screen. Also, the visual design is some of the best in the industry.

UI is best available — Bullcrap, every EVE player complains about the archaic UI. This is a sure sign of someone who's pretending to praise a few good points to make himself more believable while peddling nonsense criticisms.

May as well just be given an Excel workbook — Should have stopped reading there to be honest. This is a stereotype by now, perpetrated and parroted by mindless EVE haters. No one who has played the game for a month or more feels this way.

Not actually complex, only seems that way — Sure sign of a carebear who never left his comfort zone.

Feels lifeless 90% of the time — You're doing it wrong. If you want constant activity, there are corps and alliances who offer frequent or even constant fights and excitement.

---

I say UI visuals are good, its bullcrap, i say visuals are not good, it's bullcrap.

I play the game, i have no hidden agenda, this is what 99.7% of the 100 million strong MMO market think of this game.

I have tried every mechanic in the game, joined every type of corp, pirate, low sec, high sec, mining, null sec, faction warfare. Traded, crafted, played the market. Travelled far and wide.

there is no such thing as constant fights in EvE, you are lying, even a rabid fanboi wouldn't be so stupid to make this claim, gatecamping isn't fighting and alliance fights are how often? I know its the EvE forum, but jesus, most people on MMORPG have tried this game, why lie.

Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

 

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Originally posted by Yamota

 

Or maybe they just dont like it?

---

 
Except that his criticisms are objectively ridiculous on several different fronts, and his comments on the MMORPG.com Players' Choice results are simply petty — i.e., claiming EVE only won because EVE communities linked to the contest. That's just dumb when you consider that 1.) other MMO communities are perfectly capable of doing the same, and 2.) only a small portion of EVE's already compact player base are actually active on the official forums or Failheap Challenge.

 

As for why Vegetto's criticisms fail, I'll break them down for you:

Dull visuals — people are entitled to their opinions, but "black space"? Try a wide variety of nebulae in the background, asteroid fields, planets, moons, stargates, wormholes, warp tunnels, space stations, scenery during missions, etc. It's a spacefaring game. The environment isn't going to be packed with "stuff" 100% of the time on every screen. Also, the visual design is some of the best in the industry.

UI is best available — Bullcrap, every EVE player complains about the archaic UI. This is a sure sign of someone who's pretending to praise a few good points to make himself more believable while peddling nonsense criticisms.

May as well just be given an Excel workbook — Should have stopped reading there to be honest. This is a stereotype by now, perpetrated and parroted by mindless EVE haters. No one who has played the game for a month or more feels this way.

Not actually complex, only seems that way — Sure sign of a carebear who never left his comfort zone.

Feels lifeless 90% of the time — You're doing it wrong. If you want constant activity, there are corps and alliances who offer frequent or even constant fights and excitement.

His opinions dont need to be objective for him to not liking it. For example I would say that the UI is garbage but I am still bored by this game. The visuals, altough pretty are not very interesting, it is mostly dark and there are no space physics in this game. I also agree with the excel part, but that is because of the crappy UI.

In any case, just because we dont like the game does not mean we have some hidden agenda. We simply dont enjoy playing it and as these are not the official forums we are allowed to say that here.

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

 

---

Originally posted by Yamota

 

Or maybe they just dont like it?

---

 
Except that his criticisms are objectively ridiculous on several different fronts, and his comments on the MMORPG.com Players' Choice results are simply petty — i.e., claiming EVE only won because EVE communities linked to the contest. That's just dumb when you consider that 1.) other MMO communities are perfectly capable of doing the same, and 2.) only a small portion of EVE's already compact player base are actually active on the official forums or Failheap Challenge.

 

As for why Vegetto's criticisms fail, I'll break them down for you:

Dull visuals — people are entitled to their opinions, but "black space"? Try a wide variety of nebulae in the background, asteroid fields, planets, moons, stargates, wormholes, warp tunnels, space stations, scenery during missions, etc. It's a spacefaring game. The environment isn't going to be packed with "stuff" 100% of the time on every screen. Also, the visual design is some of the best in the industry.

UI is best available — Bullcrap, every EVE player complains about the archaic UI. This is a sure sign of someone who's pretending to praise a few good points to make himself more believable while peddling nonsense criticisms.

May as well just be given an Excel workbook — Should have stopped reading there to be honest. This is a stereotype by now, perpetrated and parroted by mindless EVE haters. No one who has played the game for a month or more feels this way.

Not actually complex, only seems that way — Sure sign of a carebear who never left his comfort zone.

Feels lifeless 90% of the time — You're doing it wrong. If you want constant activity, there are corps and alliances who offer frequent or even constant fights and excitement.

His opinions dont need to be objective for him to not liking it. For example I would say that the UI is garbage but I am still bored by this game. The visuals, altough pretty are not very interesting, it is mostly dark and there are no space physics in this game. I also agree with the excel part, but that is because of the crappy UI.

In any case, just because we dont like the game does not mean we have some hidden agenda. We simply dont enjoy playing it and as these are not the official forums we are allowed to say that here.

So true, but the fact that you don't like this game but still visit and post in this forum means that you do have a hidden agenda.

Originally posted by itchmon

please don't forget, the reviewer in the vid is reviewing the 2008 eve.  it's 2012 now.  it's similar but certainly more new player friendly and there are a lot more interesting activities pvp wise and story wise than there were in 2008.

The review is garbage to begin with since he made no effort to join a corp or interact with other players, infact he went out of his way to avoid other players.

He was playing a MMORPG is if it was a single player rpg.

Basically his review is that:  "as a single player game the MMORPG EVE online is boring"

Well, no &*$%!

He's doing it wrong.

For example:

Godfather is the worst movie I've ever seen - I watched it with the sound off yesterday and I couldn't tell what was going on; it was sooo boring!

On new years I spent the evening in a sleep clinic - it was the worst party I've ever been to - they kept telling me to go to sleep and that I was not supposed to move around and stuff!

I tried to play a PSP game by putting the disc into my PC, but it wouldn't run - Sony sux!

Originally posted by Vegetto

 

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Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

---

Originally posted by Yamota

 

Or maybe they just dont like it?

---

 
Except that his criticisms are objectively ridiculous on several different fronts, and his comments on the MMORPG.com Players' Choice results are simply petty — i.e., claiming EVE only won because EVE communities linked to the contest. That's just dumb when you consider that 1.) other MMO communities are perfectly capable of doing the same, and 2.) only a small portion of EVE's already compact player base are actually active on the official forums or Failheap Challenge.

 

As for why Vegetto's criticisms fail, I'll break them down for you:

Dull visuals — people are entitled to their opinions, but "black space"? Try a wide variety of nebulae in the background, asteroid fields, planets, moons, stargates, wormholes, warp tunnels, space stations, scenery during missions, etc. It's a spacefaring game. The environment isn't going to be packed with "stuff" 100% of the time on every screen. Also, the visual design is some of the best in the industry.

UI is best available — Bullcrap, every EVE player complains about the archaic UI. This is a sure sign of someone who's pretending to praise a few good points to make himself more believable while peddling nonsense criticisms.

May as well just be given an Excel workbook — Should have stopped reading there to be honest. This is a stereotype by now, perpetrated and parroted by mindless EVE haters. No one who has played the game for a month or more feels this way.

Not actually complex, only seems that way — Sure sign of a carebear who never left his comfort zone.

Feels lifeless 90% of the time — You're doing it wrong. If you want constant activity, there are corps and alliances who offer frequent or even constant fights and excitement.

---

 

I say UI visuals are good, its bullcrap, i say visuals are not good, it's bullcrap.

I play the game, i have no hidden agenda, this is what 99.7% of the 100 million strong MMO market think of this game.

I have tried every mechanic in the game, joined every type of corp, pirate, low sec, high sec, mining, null sec, faction warfare. Traded, crafted, played the market. Travelled far and wide.

there is no such thing as constant fights in EvE, you are lying, even a rabid fanboi wouldn't be so stupid to make this claim, gatecamping isn't fighting and alliance fights are how often? I know its the EvE forum, but jesus, most people on MMORPG have tried this game, why lie.

How many of that 100 million consistently stay with a game for more than a year?

There is such a thing as constant fights if you join an alliance that is constantly aggressive, it doesn't have to be alliance scale fights to be considered a fight. Gate camping is still fighting, you're not just ganking haulers all the time. Anything can come through that gate. You and your small band of friends stay at a gate too long and you will find a fight as locals pitchfork (in null) to remove you. There are alliances that do nothing but roam all day, every day. Look on their killboards and everyday you are guaranteed to see pages and pages of kills and losses from fights, ganks or whatever all over the place.

Like these:

http://northern-coalition.co.uk/?a=home&view=kills&y=2012&m=01

https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/

http://a-killed.me/

https://killboard.goonfleet.com/

It might be hard to believe but there are alliances out there that do nothing but pvp every day.

Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

Originally posted by Vegetto

In theory it's all great, but visually it's so dull, that's the problem. You may aswell just be given a excel workbook to play with. The systems, mechanics and UI are amazing, best available, but i can't just sit there, looking at my ship, occasionally someone elses, on a black wallpaper.

Thats the issue for most, nothing to do with complexity, it's actually about as complex as this forum. But it feels very very lifeless 90% of the time and these battles happen once in a blue moon.

 

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

 

Are you mad because you tried EVE and failed? I noticed your cute little comments in the 2011 MMORPG.com Players' Choice contest results. Seems like someone has a raging anti-EVE agenda.

Wow, a genuinely accurate assesment and you respond by insulting him? Yea, the boring truth about EVE always makes the blind faithful so emotional. They know its boring, but they'll never admit it.

Originally posted by Velocinox

Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

Originally posted by Vegetto

In theory it's all great, but visually it's so dull, that's the problem. You may aswell just be given a excel workbook to play with. The systems, mechanics and UI are amazing, best available, but i can't just sit there, looking at my ship, occasionally someone elses, on a black wallpaper.

Thats the issue for most, nothing to do with complexity, it's actually about as complex as this forum. But it feels very very lifeless 90% of the time and these battles happen once in a blue moon.

 

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

 

Are you mad because you tried EVE and failed? I noticed your cute little comments in the 2011 MMORPG.com Players' Choice contest results. Seems like someone has a raging anti-EVE agenda.

Wow, a genuinely accurate assesment and you respond by insulting him? Yea, the boring truth about EVE always makes the blind faithful so emotional. They know its boring, but they'll never admit it.

There is obviously nothing biased about your comment. Let me guess the MMO you play is awesome and every who think it isn't probably enjoys playing dull games. You're just as guilty as of what you're accusing someone else of, and the fact that you dislike EVE and feel the need to come in here and troll, what does that say about you?

There are only 2 kinds of people in the world: EVE players and those that love to troll them :)

In today's MMO market, EVE is unique, and for some reason that nobody can understand, it keeps attracting new players. But the thing that TRULY baffles the critics, is that a lot of those players actually stay subbed, often for years.

When humans can't understand something, they usually try to kill it, lol

Originally posted by SpottyGekko

There are only 2 kinds of people in the world: EVE players and those that love to troll them :)

 

In today's MMO market, EVE is unique, and for some reason that nobody can understand, it keeps attracting new players. But the thing that TRULY baffles the critics, is that a lot of those players actually stay subbed, often for years.

 

When humans can't understand something, they usually try to kill it, lol

Fair enough, as an EVE player I can understand that. PvPers often want to kill miners and PvErs in a fire. I think the reasons people stay have been glanced at in these forums in many many posts. But I guess the simpliest explanation is the permanence of the EVE universe. Not premanence in that it never changes but permanence as in the persistent universe that can be shaped by players (mostly nullsec). The world is always there and you can always come back and take part in it. You stay for the world/community.

---

Originally posted by Vegetto

there is no such thing as constant fights in EvE, you are lying, even a rabid fanboi wouldn't be so stupid to make this claim, gatecamping isn't fighting and alliance fights are how often? I know its the EvE forum, but jesus, most people on MMORPG have tried this game, why lie.

---

Gatecamping isn't fighting? I see. You've chosen a personal definition for what constitutes "fighting" and then claim EVE doesn't have any fights. Let me guess, you want lots of small gang fights but there are too many blobs (where "blob" = any gang with 1 more ship than my gang, no doubt)?

There's always Red vs. Blue, but apparently that doesn't count either. If all else fails you can flip cans, suicide gank Hulks, or scan down mission runners to ninja their salvage. There's no shortage of miners and certainly no shortage of tears in this game.

When I was a kid, if I told my mother I was bored, she'd give me chores to do. That cured me after the first few times. She also said, "Only boring people get bored." Point is: This is a sandbox game. Go make your own fun rather than expecting CCP to somehow deliver the very specific type of fights you consider "real fights" 23.5/7.

Not once have I ever been bored while playing EVE.

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Originally posted by Yamota

We simply dont enjoy playing it and as these are not the official forums we are allowed to say that here.

---

You think people don't complain about EVE and whine about how much they don't enjoy it on the official EVE forums?

Please, now I KNOW you're full of it. Discredited, next.

Originally posted by Calfis

Originally posted by Velocinox

Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

Originally posted by Vegetto

In theory it's all great, but visually it's so dull, that's the problem. You may aswell just be given a excel workbook to play with. The systems, mechanics and UI are amazing, best available, but i can't just sit there, looking at my ship, occasionally someone elses, on a black wallpaper.

Thats the issue for most, nothing to do with complexity, it's actually about as complex as this forum. But it feels very very lifeless 90% of the time and these battles happen once in a blue moon.

 

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

 

Are you mad because you tried EVE and failed? I noticed your cute little comments in the 2011 MMORPG.com Players' Choice contest results. Seems like someone has a raging anti-EVE agenda.

Wow, a genuinely accurate assesment and you respond by insulting him? Yea, the boring truth about EVE always makes the blind faithful so emotional. They know its boring, but they'll never admit it.

There is obviously nothing biased about your comment. Let me guess the MMO you play is awesome and every who think it isn't probably enjoys playing dull games. You're just as guilty as of what you're accusing someone else of, and the fact that you dislike EVE and feel the need to come in here and troll, what does that say about you?

Wrong. Nice attempt at pop psych though. Actually I love the Elite/Federation/Freelancer game paradigm, unfortunately EVE does it terribly. It's as removed from action as WoW is. I'd try to explain it to you, but it would be like trying to explain the impossibility of God to a born again christian. You're well and truly indoctrinated and there is no coming out of the delusion until you make a personal breakthrough.

Originally posted by Velocinox

Originally posted by Calfis

Originally posted by Velocinox

Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

Originally posted by Vegetto

In theory it's all great, but visually it's so dull, that's the problem. You may aswell just be given a excel workbook to play with. The systems, mechanics and UI are amazing, best available, but i can't just sit there, looking at my ship, occasionally someone elses, on a black wallpaper.

Thats the issue for most, nothing to do with complexity, it's actually about as complex as this forum. But it feels very very lifeless 90% of the time and these battles happen once in a blue moon.

 

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

 

Are you mad because you tried EVE and failed? I noticed your cute little comments in the 2011 MMORPG.com Players' Choice contest results. Seems like someone has a raging anti-EVE agenda.

Wow, a genuinely accurate assesment and you respond by insulting him? Yea, the boring truth about EVE always makes the blind faithful so emotional. They know its boring, but they'll never admit it.

There is obviously nothing biased about your comment. Let me guess the MMO you play is awesome and every who think it isn't probably enjoys playing dull games. You're just as guilty as of what you're accusing someone else of, and the fact that you dislike EVE and feel the need to come in here and troll, what does that say about you?

Wrong. Nice attempt at pop psych though. Actually I love the Elite/Federation/Freelancer game paradigm, unfortunately EVE does it terribly. It's as removed from action as WoW is. I'd try to explain it to you, but it would be like trying to explain the impossibility of God to a born again christian. You're well and truly indoctrinated and there is no coming out of the delusion until you make a personal breakthrough.

I see. Eve players are wrong and you are right, but you won't bother explaining why because Eve players wouldn't understand you anyway. Aristotle would be so proud.

You thought it was good... without trying it and just listening to other people.

Now you think it sounds bad... without trying it and just listening to one guy.

That's nice.

Originally posted by Velocinox

Originally posted by Calfis

Originally posted by Velocinox

Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

Originally posted by Vegetto

In theory it's all great, but visually it's so dull, that's the problem. You may aswell just be given a excel workbook to play with. The systems, mechanics and UI are amazing, best available, but i can't just sit there, looking at my ship, occasionally someone elses, on a black wallpaper.

Thats the issue for most, nothing to do with complexity, it's actually about as complex as this forum. But it feels very very lifeless 90% of the time and these battles happen once in a blue moon.

 

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

 

Are you mad because you tried EVE and failed? I noticed your cute little comments in the 2011 MMORPG.com Players' Choice contest results. Seems like someone has a raging anti-EVE agenda.

Wow, a genuinely accurate assesment and you respond by insulting him? Yea, the boring truth about EVE always makes the blind faithful so emotional. They know its boring, but they'll never admit it.

There is obviously nothing biased about your comment. Let me guess the MMO you play is awesome and every who think it isn't probably enjoys playing dull games. You're just as guilty as of what you're accusing someone else of, and the fact that you dislike EVE and feel the need to come in here and troll, what does that say about you?

Wrong. Nice attempt at pop psych though. Actually I love the Elite/Federation/Freelancer game paradigm, unfortunately EVE does it terribly. It's as removed from action as WoW is. I'd try to explain it to you, but it would be like trying to explain the impossibility of God to a born again christian. You're well and truly indoctrinated and there is no coming out of the delusion until you make a personal breakthrough.

Try me, as far as I can tell all you are saying is that if I enjoy the game that means I'm biased and wrong and you seem to provide the measuring stick for all games that are "not terrible". I like how you keep trying to dodge that fact and make it sound like its all EVE players that are unreasonable for the very fact that they are EVE players. But thats not a very strong argument, I know its shocking but your position is pretty weak. Being loud doesn't make it any stronger.

But please give me an example of a "good game" and what makes it inherently "good".

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

 

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Originally posted by Yamota

 

Or maybe they just dont like it?

---

 

In any case, just because we dont like the game does not mean we have some hidden agenda. We simply dont enjoy playing it and as these are not the official forums we are allowed to say that here.

And following down the same road, just because you or Yatzee don't like EVE doesn't mean it isn't a very good game.

It does appeal to a niche audience, I was one of those who had a lot of fun in my time there.

It isn't for everyone, doesn't mean there is something wrong with them for not enjoying the game.

I don't like FPS'er or sports games, many people do, different strokes for different folks.

But one thing is true, EVE is a very different sort of MMORPG experience, regardless of whether you end up loving it or hating, which not many MMO's out there today can really say.

Other than the folks who play Perpetuum, few will say they have a strong sense of deja vu when playing it.

dg

I just found it (personally) visually unstimulating and lonely. That apparently changes with alliance warfare, but they have entrance requirements tighter than the pentagon.

Also, the vets are so far ahead that what is the point of mining? Going into manufacturing? You don't stand a chance against the concerted efforts of entire alliances who can manipulate market prices at will, manufacture everything cheaper and have access to more resources.

So that leaves PvP and since you cannot get into an alliance without virtual fellacio; that leaves you to small gang PvP or pirating. Chances you bump into a winnable fight when you eventually find someone? Low.

So the barrier to entry, as every veteran here has said, is to join a good corp.

If you have less than 30 million SP, how would one go about that? So the barrier to entry has it's own barrier to entry. And that is just the first of usually several requirements, listed on every corps spam in recruitment. Even if you get in, you're the new guy and the noses are turned up (yes, say i'm lying, don't care, it's what happened in my experience)

Raising this as an issue though is met with derision, even though everyone admits it is true. After several weeks of playing, you will still not get into a good corp as you are not seen as worthy.

I'll get shot down again, but ignore the problems and nothing gets resolved. I personally see this as a HUGE issue for the future of the game, EvEs own server graphs show a steady fall in daily numbers (Fact, it's on their own website, i can't be called a liar on this one and don't try and twist it saying it's January or something, it's over a year period). New player retention apparently relies on them getting into active corps, which is a hardcore begging game in itself.

Would i still be playing if i got into a good corp that didn't fold every week? YES. But i can't.

So any mature thoughts on this? Or am i just too thick for this game? So before the people with CCP tattoed on their foreheads steam in: I like the game, but due to the above, i cannot enjoy the game.