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News & Features Discussion  » General: Why I'm Freaking Out Over SOPA/PIPA

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114 posts found
  kakasaki

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/06
Posts: 1262

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!"

1/20/12 8:40:28 AM#21
Originally posted by FrostWyrm
Originally posted by BadSpock

Tin foil hats off please.


It is about piracy, and it's about MONEY and the corporations and entities losing it due to piracy.


Here's a grown up, adult solution to the problem -


PAY for material from artists, corporations, companies, and other such groups that you like and want to support. Vote with your wallet.


YOU, the movie/game/music illegal downloader brought this on us.


The entitlement this generation feels... that they "deserve" to steal is just laughable. Not being able to afford something you want to have is no justification for stealing it. That is called "life" and "reality."

Corporations cant lose what they didn't have in the first place

Piracy IS a form of "voting with your wallet". In most instances it tells corporations their product is worth having, but not at the given price.

The corporations have brought this upon themselves by pricing their product higher than a lot of people feel its worth.

No one is entitled to steal. While I don't wholly agree with piracy, I can understand why it exists, and I don't believe it's the fault of the pirates.

Spin it however you want, BadSpock is correct: pirating software IS stealing and there is no justification for it. Think a game is not worth the release price? Wait till it goes on sale and pick it up on the bargain bin for a price you think it is worth. Don't agree with the perceived greed of a company (SOE comes to mind)? Vote with your wallet and refuse to purchase anything from them: I find it hypocritical to say you will boycott a company but then illegally dowloand their products. 

 

SOPA IS a poorly thought out/worded over reaction to an actual problem and should not become law. But to say that piracy is the fault of the companies or that companies make people do ilegal acts is ludicrous.

A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  FrostWyrm

Novice Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 1028

1/20/12 8:50:03 AM#22
Originally posted by kakasaki
Originally posted by FrostWyrm
Originally posted by BadSpock

Tin foil hats off please.


It is about piracy, and it's about MONEY and the corporations and entities losing it due to piracy.


Here's a grown up, adult solution to the problem -


PAY for material from artists, corporations, companies, and other such groups that you like and want to support. Vote with your wallet.


YOU, the movie/game/music illegal downloader brought this on us.


The entitlement this generation feels... that they "deserve" to steal is just laughable. Not being able to afford something you want to have is no justification for stealing it. That is called "life" and "reality."

Corporations cant lose what they didn't have in the first place

Piracy IS a form of "voting with your wallet". In most instances it tells corporations their product is worth having, but not at the given price.

The corporations have brought this upon themselves by pricing their product higher than a lot of people feel its worth.

No one is entitled to steal. While I don't wholly agree with piracy, I can understand why it exists, and I don't believe it's the fault of the pirates.

Spin it however you want...

Spin what? I didn't say piracy was or should be legal, I just think corporations get what they deserve from it.

  darker70

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/21/08
Posts: 821

A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.
Groucho Marx

1/20/12 9:06:11 AM#23

 



One thing the geniuses who have shut down Mega upload seem to have shot themselves in the foot,to do this now when there are millions of Americans voteing to stop SOPA is a strange descision,why on earth would they pretty much bring the full wrath of Anonymous and show how SOPA could if passed basically kill a site and impose a guilty verdict with out due process.


Millions of  people where unaware of this bill but now will join in the fight to prevent a Orwellian nightmare in a supposed free and democratic society, as a Brit many of my country would look to the states and your constitution and freedom of speech in envy as Britian does not have that only the general laws laid out by Brussels prevents the UK from been one of the most secretive countries in the world.


But now we have a winner the States after 911 has basically let the terrorists win,because now the American people are becomeing embroiled in a police state the very laws that the Taliban use to control the populace are now been interpreted as protecting the people, when companies like Universal can hack a website who no doubt contribute to the campaign fund think it is ok,as they have the protection of most of the senate and only a guilty verdict against Universal would turn the tide but has they are corparate America and goverment supporters this seems very unlikely !!,u then have to wonder it might be an idea to drop land of the free from your national anthem.



  User Deleted
1/20/12 9:17:44 AM#24

I didn't read the entire thread but my personal view on SOPA may be a bit different.

 

So... here goes.

 

 

I was born in Vermont and spent the first 20+ years of my life there.   One of the Authors of SOPA is Senator Leahy of... ya *drum roll* Vermont.

 

So I have issues with SOPA and I find it embarrasing that one of the Authors is from my "home state".

 

So why is that?

 

In the most basic sense when Leahy was elected it was to represent the voters of his state, which in this case is Vermont.   What interest does this bill serve the state that elected him?   I got back to Vermont now and then due to family all over the state.   I'm not really aware of a large recording industry or even artist industry that asked for anything like this.

 

So the people he is representing in this bill are not the ones that elected him or from the state that elected him.

 

To me that is really a *ponder* becuase the people I talk to in Vermont have a major concern... jobs.

 

Yet during one the worst economic periods of our country ... instead of trying to do something to get the economy going... he was too busy helping to write SOPA which is going to do what to help the state the elected him?

 

Absolutely nothing.

 

The vast majority of industry that this bill might help is a long ways west of Vermont...

 

I'd also wager a pretty good guess that Senator Leahy knows about as much in regards to online piracy as I know about being a brain surgeon.

 

However, he should have a pretty good understanding of "due process" and why writing a bill that ignore due process would be unconstitutional and a waste of time.

 

Seriously?

 

I've been thinking of going "home" just to try to make sure he does not get elected again.   Key word there being try... but I'm pretty sure if the people of his home state knew this was his focus instead of their interest... it would probably go a long ways in my quest for him being out of office.

 

I believe people who create art or any product should be paid for it.   I don't support piracy or theft in general.   I just don't comprehend wasting time on this during the current economy or the concept that I can try to shutdown a website on a claim I don't have to be able to prove.. nor do they ever have had to host the offending material.

  PieRad

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/14/08
Posts: 1169

1/20/12 9:30:08 AM#25

Lol'd when i found this.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swfXXT0QBeI&feature=related

 

C|Net owned by CBS, partnered w. Disney, Warner and many others actually distributed the sharing software along with DRM removal software, and made a ton doing it too, then turn around and cry to the politicians that there is too much piracy.

They are heavy supporters of SOPA, and pouring millions into it..... WTF.

 

Check it.

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

1/20/12 9:43:50 AM#26

Originally posted by BadSpock

Tin foil hats off please.




It is about piracy, and it's about MONEY and the corporations and entities losing it due to piracy.




So they pad a few congressional pockets, help write up a really, really poorly written bill or two - internet backlashes, victory for internet right?




They will pass something, something to help curb piracy.




Constructive criticism and fact based arguments to support a new version of the bill that doesn't place the burden of truth on the accused.




Poorly written bill, but something needs to be done.




Piracy IS illegal.




Here's a grown up, adult solution to the problem -




PAY for material from artists, corporations, companies, and other such groups that you like and want to support. Vote with your wallet.




Capitalism.




"There is NO such thing as a free lunch."




YOU, the movie/game/music illegal downloader brought this on us.




The entitlement this generation feels... that they "deserve" to steal is just laughable. Not being able to afford something you want to have is no justification for stealing it. That is called "life" and "reality."





 




Big news for you.


 


Piracy in USA and western countries IS DECREASING in last years, especially since digital distribution kicked in.


  Ceridith

Novice Member

Joined: 11/24/09
Posts: 3001

The more you hype an upcoming game in your mind, the more it will fail to meet your expectations.

1/20/12 9:59:33 AM#27
Originally posted by BadSpock

Tin foil hats off please.


It is about piracy, and it's about MONEY and the corporations and entities losing it due to piracy.


So they pad a few congressional pockets, help write up a really, really poorly written bill or two - internet backlashes, victory for internet right?


They will pass something, something to help curb piracy.


Constructive criticism and fact based arguments to support a new version of the bill that doesn't place the burden of truth on the accused.


Poorly written bill, but something needs to be done.


Piracy IS illegal.


Here's a grown up, adult solution to the problem -


PAY for material from artists, corporations, companies, and other such groups that you like and want to support. Vote with your wallet.


Capitalism.


"There is NO such thing as a free lunch."


YOU, the movie/game/music illegal downloader brought this on us.


The entitlement this generation feels... that they "deserve" to steal is just laughable. Not being able to afford something you want to have is no justification for stealing it. That is called "life" and "reality."

Piracy is a problem... but it's nowhere near the problem that the Music, Movie, and other entertainment industries try to make it out to be.

If you believe everything these companies claim about piracy...

  • Casettes killed the music industry.
  • VHS killed the movie industry.
  • CD burning killed music industry.
  • DvD Burning killed the movie industry.
  • P2P filesharing killed the music industry.

Sorry, but I'm hesitant to believe that the big bad Internet is doing oh so much harm to these companies that have a distinct history of crying wolf over piracy.

Should piracy be dealt with? Yes, but not to the degree that it erodes free speech and bypasses due process.

  User Deleted
1/20/12 10:28:15 AM#28

The tech industry should work with them in hollywood. They could provide a solution but you have to remember that there is no piece of software that can't be craked ever. so the real question is instead of loosing the money to someone 'cracking' it, why not make it afforable for people who could benefit from using wither it be a game designer or indie studio or the average hobbyist consumer?

What this is really about is movies. hollywood is falling on hard times yet they keep making craptastic titles that many consider not worth purchasing at all. really do you want to pay 25 bucks for alvin and the chipmunks? when you could just d/l it and see if you would have wasted your money at the movie theater or at the bargain bin?

Like i payed for my vbulletin forum even though it's the most pirated forum software in history. it cost almost 300 us dollars. but i needed a great forums not just a free one. now that price for someone who needs a solid updated forum may not have the funds to buy it. many say good he can't and dammed if he still pirates it. but you have to remember some of the better stuff cost allot of money in the US.

China makes gibson guitar clones just like a real gibson does. but in china the 9000 dollar custom les paul that is a copy in china cost just 150 bucks. same quality but very cheap. many could argue the last point about the qaulity difference but oh well.

fact is you want something but many young people don't have the income to pay the big bucks for it. even though I pay cash for all my software, many will not or can't.

So maybe software companys need to start thinking in terms of the US economy and how bad it is and start reflecting prices below for the same stuff they charge unreal prices for.

Movie companys need to stop blaming pirates for crappy movies they want to much money to purchase and start getting with the times. they need to make better quality movies and less of them. it's like MMOs  these days. go to the front of this site and you see ads for a new fantasy MMO thats free to play almost every other day. we need more more quality and less quantity 

  Timacek

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 182

1/20/12 11:16:31 AM#29
  Yuui

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/07
Posts: 722

1/20/12 11:21:20 AM#30


Originally posted by BadSpock
Tin foil hats off please.It is about piracy, and it's about MONEY and the corporations and entities losing it due to piracy.So they pad a few congressional pockets, help write up a really, really poorly written bill or two - internet backlashes, victory for internet right?They will pass something, something to help curb piracy.Constructive criticism and fact based arguments to support a new version of the bill that doesn't place the burden of truth on the accused.Poorly written bill, but something needs to be done.Piracy IS illegal.Here's a grown up, adult solution to the problem -PAY for material from artists, corporations, companies, and other such groups that you like and want to support. Vote with your wallet.Capitalism."There is NO such thing as a free lunch."YOU, the movie/game/music illegal downloader brought this on us.The entitlement this generation feels... that they "deserve" to steal is just laughable. Not being able to afford something you want to have is no justification for stealing it. That is called "life" and "reality."

I'd better hold on to the tinfoil hat if I were you.

Nothing in this bill is about Piracy. Majority of the bill supporters are lobbied by entertainment industry(ESA, MPAA, etc) to do so. Its the usual try to protect their gigantic market share. They did it when VHS recorders were invented, they did it when DVR concept appeared, they did it when mp3 players started to gain foothold. Most of times unsuccessfully but now they have grown in power enough to actually push bills like that into congress.

The goal of SOPA and PIPA is simple - to stop potential future innovative companies from competing with the "big guys".


Piracy is not something that can be stopped by authoritarian censorship. It can only be lessened by actually providing a better support and service than pirates.

TB's video about SOPA pretty much explains it in simplified terms better than I could.



Originally posted by Timacek
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swfXXT0QBeI&feature=relatedeveryone should watch it

err. no. Mozart guy sounds like a loony. The last thing the legitimate part of anti-SOPA opposition needs is to be viewed as wingnut nutjobs.

# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON

  User Deleted
1/20/12 12:08:09 PM#31

SOPA and PIPA are by no means just about piracy: they're an attack against a new, growing online economy that endangers the old entertainment business with shareware/freeware, free entertainment (sites like youtube and reverbnation) and transformative works created under fair use. Both the MPAA and RIAA have shown a clear and consistent contempt of fair use and any site that hosts user-generated content (they just shut down Megaupload today). They regularly harrass websites like youtube with unfounded takedown notices, many of which are generated by a computer doing word searches without any human oversight. Under the new laws, these organizations with a history of abusing the existing copyright system would be given free reign over the internet, shutting down whatever they wanted at will (and pretecting their own business at the same time). 


  PieRad

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/14/08
Posts: 1169

1/20/12 12:57:12 PM#32
Originally posted by Yuui





 

err. no. Mozart guy sounds like a loony. The last thing the legitimate part of anti-SOPA opposition needs is to be viewed as wingnut nutjobs.

 

Doesn't matter how he sounds, he's right.

 

  Dalyn

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 19

1/20/12 1:18:16 PM#33

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 They might as well try to make it illegal to borrow a book from your neighbor by banning paper.



 


Seriously well said!


+rep


  spaceport

Novice Member

Joined: 11/24/11
Posts: 417

1/20/12 1:24:23 PM#34

Megaupload has been killed by the FBI, and the owners are going spend 50 years in jail.








 








Laugh about tin foil hats now, laugh aboit Zeitgeist, laugh about Rockefeller, laugh.... while you can.








Sure, Zeitgeist have some BS, but most of it's true, money is more important than life, with money, you can do ANYTHING you want in this world, ANYTHING. 








 








Read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" or watch THIS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKRKZqdgBXg if you still don't understand why so many foreign countries hate the USA, sure... you can say "it's the gov, not us" but it's your fault for being so naive, so ignorant and sheep.








America... "the land of the free" where people whatch Fox News and wonders WTF is Occupy Wall Street, where bills like SOPA exist.








More like, "America, the land of the greed"








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KejYPQyhUI


 








How about you WAKE UP?











 




 


"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu

  gaeanprayer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/08
Posts: 2360

1/20/12 2:30:41 PM#35



Originally posted by Durray



I am finding this annoying now.








I have been campaigning to stop SOPA (As an ENGLISHMAN) since September last year. Now suddenly everyone claims to be against it and care.








I love the fact it looks like we have stopped it. YAY internet.








But where were these articles MMORPG.com last year? When it actually would have made a difference.











 




+++++++++




I've been talking, facebooking, twittering, everything I could since before SOPA even existed and they were proposing similar bills under the guise of child protection, and it's only now that people wake up. People need to stop assuming that everyone else is smart enough to see past the charade and realize that money talks, and the people proposing these bills have a lot of money. Further, bills like these are usually combined with pork proposals, a not-so-subtle "You scratch my back, I scratch yours," which temps lawmakers into favoring the bill just so their city/state/whatever gets that bonus incentive. Greed and ignorance is dangerous, and there is no more concentrated a supply of both than Washington.




 




Stop waiting until end-game to speak up.





 

"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

1/20/12 2:38:47 PM#36

SOPA is forcing us to confront a massive fork in the road in the way our civilization works.  Over the years, we've been slowly building the idea that information can be property at the same time that we have been building the idea that people are free to communicate.  There has always been a blurry line between sharing a sentence and sharing an entire body of work.  Libraries, photocopiers, VCRs ... these are all technologies that have sat on the unstable edge between ownership and freedom.  The Internet is information's Thunderdome.  As communities emerge to share information and industries emerge to produce information, the two models of the status of information are now in brutal and continuous clash.


The end result of SOPA would be the end of free communication.  Since even communicating a potential reference to a copyrighted work is treated as a crime, it would put us on a path where everything you say would have to henceforth be monitored and filtered continuously to ensure no owned idea was communicated.  The alternative, the end of copyright, puts us in a scary world where traditional notions of the value of rigid created works vanishes.


MMOs represent a possible alternative model of the future of information.   Most MMOs freely give away their client - which really is the bulk of the work that has been down.  Instead, the price is access to the server, a service that cannot be as easily be copied.  To the end-user, there's really not a huge difference in the experience, but it's a radically different technical approach to creating a business out of a creative work: sell a service, not a copy.


If you were forced to choose between two worlds: one in which copyright ceased to exist and one in which communication between individuals was severely curtailed, which would you choose?


  tawess

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 1991

1/20/12 3:08:19 PM#37

I will hold fast in my opinion that most people are over reacting to this...


 


Also.. Last time i looked the US of A was a democracy... if this get passed just wait for a few new young(relative term) politicians who see this as a stepingstone to the halls of power and use the revocation of it as a way to pull in voters. After all it is just a law:ish and not the 11 comandment.


 


 


Tomas Soapbox

This have been a good conversation

  VowOfSilence

Novice Member

Joined: 6/13/09
Posts: 581

1/20/12 3:16:14 PM#38

Megaupload & Megavideo have been shut down by US Gov.


 


 


http://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/2012/01/20/anonymous-retaliates-over-megaupload-megavideo-shutdown-sopa-and-pipa-links/


 


Can you believe it? Who's next, youtube?


Hype train -> Reality

  Tioanbeast

Novice Member

Joined: 9/23/10
Posts: 23

1/20/12 3:22:03 PM#39

I'm for this bill, besides someones going to find a way so tha when some one posts something with a link to one of the governemts blocked sites, the software will delete it. This would elminate all of the reasons in this article against it. I hate when companies take sides. 


  tawess

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 1991

1/20/12 3:25:09 PM#40
Originally posted by VowOfSilence

Megaupload & Megavideo have been shut down by US Gov.


 


 


http://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/2012/01/20/anonymous-retaliates-over-megaupload-megavideo-shutdown-sopa-and-pipa-links/


 


Can you believe it? Who's next, youtube?

Unlikley... But it could be. So what if it happens... They already censor stuff that is uploaded and it have been years since they were... "free"

Tomas Soapbox

This have been a good conversation

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