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Originally posted by Meltdown Again... public game forum. PUBLIC GAME FORUM. Why would you really care about anything posted here? This is place for discussion... AGAIN... if you dont wish to discuss the topic there are various buttons on your browser toolbar that will navigate you away from this page "Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month" |
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1/19/12 10:32:36 AM#22
I find it kind of hard to believe those budget amounts that have been thrown around for SWTOR: WoW cost about 50million euros/60m dollars, AoC and WAR were around I think 40-50 million dollars, TR only had such a big budget bc they had cooperation issues with NCSoft people and rigorously changed the whole direction of the game mid-project, throwing away everything of the past 2-3 years that couldn't be reused, as everyone who followed the TR trajectory and read Gariott's statements is aware of.
Changing your MMO design drastically in the midst of the project making the preceding couple of years for a large part meaningless and invested resources squandered, yes, I can see how that might add a 30-40 million dollar to the budget, if you waste a few years.
However, so far the development budget for AAA MMO's seem to range between 40-60 million dollars. Using that as a baseline, anything above 150 million dollars seems just wild conjecture. A range of 80-100 million dollars is far more logical as estimation. But hey, whatever floats someone's boat, I guess >.> |
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1/19/12 10:35:02 AM#23
IP costs, voice acting and cinematics can be pretty expensive. |
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1/19/12 10:36:13 AM#24
Originally posted by illorion We do wish to discuss it obviously. We're just stating our opinions on a public forum. Please don't get angry just because we do not share your opinion. Ours is just as valid. |
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1/19/12 10:41:47 AM#25
Originally posted by EricDanie Not THAT expensive, esp seeing how other MMO's like GW2 and TSW are using huge amounts of VO and cinematics too; even if they're not on the amount of TOR, it's still pretty extensive what they'll be implementing. So, that'd mean that GW2 and TSW would have 30-50% the additional cost of VO/cinematics that TOR would be having? From what I recall gtom the IP, the cost of it'll only get activated after the initial costs are recovered, so it doesn't seem to be included in the development budget. Don't know how it was for the Tolkien IP for LotrO btw. |
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Originally posted by smh_alot Well considering they payed a CONFRIMED 776million for bioware droping another 200mill on an MMO doesn' t seem so far outside of the realm of reality... i just wonder where it went... "Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month" |
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1/19/12 10:43:05 AM#27
Themeparks are only good once. After you go through the grind for a few years in one game, players realize how shallow the gameplay actually is when they pick up the next game and realize its exactly the same thing with a different skin but fewer features due to far less time in development.
This is the reason many people who started with EQ, DAOC, AC and others disliked WoW from the beginning and part of why all of the AAA releases from the past several years have fizzled out rather quickly.
Devs seem to think that mmo players want to play the same game for eternity when in reality they should realize that people don't want to replay WoW for the 5th or 6th time. |
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1/19/12 10:43:30 AM#28
Originally posted by illorion Hookers and blow is where it went. |
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Originally posted by Praetalus I wasn't specifically aiming that post at the previous poster... it was more a general statement If you are coming here to post about how you dont care about my post... or how you think the thread is pointless.... your not really contributing anything to the discussion. You dont got to protest just hold up sign that say "I dont care about (insert protest topic here)" its just silly "Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month" |
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1/19/12 10:46:31 AM#30
Originally posted by kartana Very true, and a staff of writers so they could shove their story down my throat without once taking into consideration that my personal story is always better than some pre-canned linear cutscene treadmill. Sure, the main class stories (well, a few of them) were a lot of fun for me, the first time through (a week or two of game time at best?). But when all is said and done, I wish for longevities sake they'd devoted less resources to that end and instead invested in crafting an interesting world that's fun to interact with on it's own rather than feeling as if it's merely a set piece in which to play through a slew of kill X space rats tasks and devoted a lot more testing and resources to tuning up UI response time and customization options.
There's way more longevity in that. And after seeing how they have handled every interaction with the game and the community post launch, my expectations for them churning out quality story driven content at any kind of steady rate are extremely low.
I truly wanted this game to do well, and would have loved if it could have been a long term hobby for me, but it's pretty clear I'll get about what I expected: 2-3 months of game time, and most of that at max level. What amazes me is how bare bones this game is in terms of features, how closely they mimed an already existing game, had pre-existing lore - all of which should shave down development time compared to a game that was starting from scratch, and yet still failed to manufacture a fluid & responsive experience. I'm also amazed at how many amateur mistakes they've made, it genuinly feels like their only experience with MMOs so far was sort of knowing someone that casually played WoW rather than a development team that had over a decade of MMO history to dissect and learn from. It'll be interesting to see how the game evolves over the next few years, and hope it's something I can check in on for fun, but at the moment the current game as provided also makes me wonder not only 'where did the money go?' but also 'What were they thinking?'. |
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Originally posted by Valkaern I agree with you... its strange though because I know for a fact that voice actors really dont get paid that much.. unless you are a reconized voice... like the guy who did vegita and piccolo's voice in DBZ or Steve Blum. Maybe they have some really top class VA's in the game and i just dont recognize any of the voices but i just dont see it. "Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month" |
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1/19/12 10:51:35 AM#32
Originally posted by illorion Sure, whenever that kind of money is thrown around a few hundreds of millions more or less don't matter, right? -_- That means probably since Bioware is earning 1-1.5 billion dollars a year, probably 1-2 billion dollars is the development budget of Titan, the money has to go somewhere, right? And that since Google paid like over a billion dollars to acquire Youtube, that easily 500 million dollars is the development budget to develop further the tool that the former Youtube owners initially developed for a fraction of that money.
The fact that EA spent that kind of money to acquire the company and brand name of Bioware has little to do with the amount of money that TOR or DA:O or ME's development budgets are, those are separate things. |
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1/19/12 10:54:02 AM#33
Originally posted by smh_alot In the case of GW2 it only has one "faction" so that basically cuts voice acting of quests in half or more if you consider that the game has no quests but the dynamic events feature which doesn't seem to require the whole dialogue you'd need for a quest story especially with the much more efficient approach to make players FEEL the situation instead of telling them through voice acting ), but SWTOR got into the Guiness for the "Largest Entertainment Voice Over Project” with over 200,000 lines of recorded dialogue. Isn't GW2 using that painting art style for cinematics? It seems to make it considerably cheaper than using the game engine itself for complex cinematics. Edit - been editing this a bit for clarity, I do know about GW2 but not about TSW |
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1/19/12 10:57:49 AM#34
Originally posted by illorion Or it's all just conjecture and a pile of horse manure, VO/cinematics budget is a hell of a lot lower than haters/critics want them to be, and the development budget is far more around sane, reasonable numbers not far from other AAA MMO budgets :-)
If the VO/cinematics really cost that much as some claim/wish it to be, you can add an additional 20-30 million dollars to GW2's and TSW's budget costs as well, with the large amounts of VO/cinematics those games will be using as well. Only TOR trumps them, but both GW2 and TSW far, far exceeds any former MMORPG in the VO/cinematics department. |
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1/19/12 11:01:45 AM#35
Originally posted by Praetalus Just a quick question: if you don't care where the money went and you're happily gaming why attend to a conversation that is asking where the money went? Because you can or because you care? But to that Tabula Rasa -thing. There's been a lot of speculation about the money going to space
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1/19/12 11:05:22 AM#36
Originally posted by EricDanie GW2 uses one faction, but has 10 character choices, 5 races and 3 societies/guilds that each have a significant impact on how the personal story goes. Besides, didn't I read something of the length of 60 feature length movies that was VO? That's a LOT. As for the cinematics, it uses a combination of character animation and semi-animated background to present the story as well as ingame cutscenes. Resources are resources, they still have to get invested for them. My estimation is that, seeing how DCUO, GW2, TOR and TSW are all using VO/cinematics/cutscenes extensively, that while voice actors sure won't be cheap, the overall costs is a lot lower than (some) people make it out to be. Else the budget costs of all those games would rise significantly as well with tens of millions of dollars purely for that part. |
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1/19/12 11:17:52 AM#37
Is everyone skipping the fact that WoW had no ability delay from start and part reason of games being less than WoW was because of this ability delay.
My friend told me to tell you guys just try an Jedi Knight or Sith Warrior press 1 and 2 or level and press 4. That's just melee it was something I noticed in OBT.
Also the whole "smooth and fluid combat" in fact is a contradicting on all reviewers due to ability delays that are glarringly obvious.
As well as riposte and master strike. I forgot that jump and ground smash move were it stuns nearby enemies but have you seen the pre jump on that? It's terrible for melee players.
It makes no sense to put that much money in a game and have that gamebreaking issue and that's just on the melee alone, apparently it's happening with more than one mirrored classes. Which in fact does make many wonder "Were did all the money go to?" many are at the conclusion that it obviousely went into the story. Oh yea just remembered overload for BH has a delay as well. This isn't a factor of which game is better but both EQ and WoW from the very start had no ability delays, an Rift as well. It's hard to get use to actually being wrong but hey it happens, an it's there until fix(1.1 didn't fix it)
May the common sense be with you fellas. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns-IIn-DG-c Try to argue this please. Oh also if you quote me and it's to argue my point, if I don't respond it means I haven't been corrected by you and/or I haven't seen it. Remember I don't mind admitting I am in the wrong. Take care :D |
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1/19/12 11:24:43 AM#38
Originally posted by EricDanie This. Especially seeing what IP its coming from, ( Lucas arts ) can be fairly money grabbing. and considering actors and sports stars demand more and more for that they do im not surprised at the cost and lack of solid specifics in game.
In my opinion when games dont stand apart from others in their content , classes, skills, music, etc then it can become rather old fairly quickly. I do agree partially with what one person said recently that themepark mmos could possibly be phased out over time unless some orginality and content can keep up with the demands of the gaming world.
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1/19/12 11:41:32 AM#39
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR |
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1/19/12 11:56:40 AM#40
Their total investment in Star Wars is approaching $500 million, according to the last paragraph here. Keep in mind, that doesn't mean purely on development, and most likely considers licensing, marketing, and other non-direct costs on getting the game out. Still, EA better hope this thing does well, and that the broker pull-back today is just a knee-jerk reaction. |
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