Originally posted by bartoni33

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by bartoni33

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2012/01/why-one-game-developer-is-skipping-e3-to-start-an-anti-sopa-crusade.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss

 

"But that's just the tip of the iceberg for PC game developer Red 5 Studios. Not only has the studio blocked access to the beta of free-to-play open-world shooter Firefall for the day, but it also revealed last week that it is pulling out of the annual Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) showcase, which is run by the SOPA-supporting Entertainment Software Association (ESA)."

 

What bothers me though lol, if not a single member of the ESA  supports SOPA how can the ESA support SOPA? Who's interests does the ESA server? It certainly isn't gamers, it doesn't seem to be developers, then who?

Pro-tip: Companies will say anything for good PR. Trust me most if not all members of ESA support SOPA. They have to blame something for the lost revenue they are experiencing. Because it couldn't be because of the shitty products they are releasing.

EDIT: This pertains more to the music and movie industry than the gaming one.

Po-rip: Greed is mainly whats killing profits for the music and Movie industry. Sites like Hulu and Netflix can't stream a lot of content because they refuse to pay the asinine amount some companies are asking. If legit sites could stream music and video like Hulu and Netflix but without all the contractual handcuffing many people would not resort to pirating.

 

Now that the pro-tips are out of the way, Yes lol, they have been dishing out a lot of shite but there have been a few gems too. What gets me the most is the fact that many of those that are in support of SOPA actually gave us the pirating software and said we could use it to find our favorite movies and music for free, the example they gave me when I downloaded it was that I could download songs from Nirvana.... for free.....

Giving people the software, having a nice little instruction page that comes with it in notepad that explains how to use it and even giving examples of pirating music and movies on the site you downloaded it from kind of leads you to the point we have reached. People sharing what they like with each other.

 

So the movie and music industry can shout and scream all they want but.... they are the ones that showed us how and told us we could. They did themselves in.

Very well said, even if you were trying to be a jerk to me!

I agree 100000000% I have HuluPlus mainly to watch old Saturday Night Live's. But if any of the skits have music or certain Ip's (Star Trek in particular) they are cut. What are the two most popular skits on SNL? "Cowbell" and "Star Trek Conference" ones. Both are not available.

lol sorry if I came off as a jerk :P

I'm excited to see it being stopped right now...  I am sure they will slowly get their way eventually but after net neutrality failed to be renewed without any protests at all I figured SOPA would be passed too.

If anyone feels like being angry and laughing at the same time, read Rupert Murdoch's twitter posts.  WHAT A DOUCHE.  It is so sad that he controls fox, hulu, and like a billion other media companies.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by bartoni33

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by bartoni33

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2012/01/why-one-game-developer-is-skipping-e3-to-start-an-anti-sopa-crusade.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss

 

"But that's just the tip of the iceberg for PC game developer Red 5 Studios. Not only has the studio blocked access to the beta of free-to-play open-world shooter Firefall for the day, but it also revealed last week that it is pulling out of the annual Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) showcase, which is run by the SOPA-supporting Entertainment Software Association (ESA)."

 

What bothers me though lol, if not a single member of the ESA  supports SOPA how can the ESA support SOPA? Who's interests does the ESA server? It certainly isn't gamers, it doesn't seem to be developers, then who?

Pro-tip: Companies will say anything for good PR. Trust me most if not all members of ESA support SOPA. They have to blame something for the lost revenue they are experiencing. Because it couldn't be because of the shitty products they are releasing.

EDIT: This pertains more to the music and movie industry than the gaming one.

Po-rip: Greed is mainly whats killing profits for the music and Movie industry. Sites like Hulu and Netflix can't stream a lot of content because they refuse to pay the asinine amount some companies are asking. If legit sites could stream music and video like Hulu and Netflix but without all the contractual handcuffing many people would not resort to pirating.

 

Now that the pro-tips are out of the way, Yes lol, they have been dishing out a lot of shite but there have been a few gems too. What gets me the most is the fact that many of those that are in support of SOPA actually gave us the pirating software and said we could use it to find our favorite movies and music for free, the example they gave me when I downloaded it was that I could download songs from Nirvana.... for free.....

Giving people the software, having a nice little instruction page that comes with it in notepad that explains how to use it and even giving examples of pirating music and movies on the site you downloaded it from kind of leads you to the point we have reached. People sharing what they like with each other.

 

So the movie and music industry can shout and scream all they want but.... they are the ones that showed us how and told us we could. They did themselves in.

Very well said, even if you were trying to be a jerk to me!

I agree 100000000% I have HuluPlus mainly to watch old Saturday Night Live's. But if any of the skits have music or certain Ip's (Star Trek in particular) they are cut. What are the two most popular skits on SNL? "Cowbell" and "Star Trek Conference" ones. Both are not available.

lol sorry if I came off as a jerk :P

No problem. I just turned 40 (FOURTY) today. I'm just raging aganist the dying of the light.

Today was nuts, right?



Google launched a petition.  Wikipedia voted to shut itself off.  Senators' websites went down just from the sheer surge of voters trying to write them.   NYC and SF geeks had protests that packed city blocks.



You made history today: nothing like this has ever happened before.  Tech companies and users teamed up.  Tens of millions of people who make the internet what it is joined together to defend their freedoms.  The free network defended itself.  Whatever you call it, the bottom line is clear: from today forward, it will be much harder to mess up the internet. 

The really crazy part?  We might even win.



Approaching Monday's crucial Senate vote there are now 35 Senators publicly opposing PIPA.  Last week there were 5.   And it just takes just 41 solid "no" votes to permanently stall PIPA (and SOPA) in the Senate.  What seemed like miles away a few weeks ago is now within reach. 

But don't trust predictions.  The forces behind SOPA & PIPA (mostly movie companies) can make small changes to these bills until they know they have the votes to pass.  Members of Congress know SOPA & PIPA are unpopular, but they don't understand why--so they're easily duped by superficial changes.  The Senate returns next week, and the next few days are critical.  Here are two things to think about:



1. Plan on calling your Senator every day next week.  Pick up the phone each morning and call your Senators' offices, until they vote "no" on cloture.  If your site participated today, consider running a "Call the Senate" link all next week.  



2. Tomorrow, drop in at your Senators' district offices.  We don't have a cool map widget to show you the offices nearest you (we're too exhausted! any takers?).  So do it the old fashioned way: use Google, or the phonebook to find the address, and just walk in, say you oppose PIPA, and urge the Senator to vote "no" on cloture.  These drop-in visits make our spectacular online protests more tangible and credible.  



That's it for now. Be proud and stay on it!



--Holmes, Tiffiniy, and the whole Fight for the Future team.



___



P.S. Huge credit goes to participants in the 11/16 American Censorship Day protest: Mozilla, 4chan, BoingBoing, Tumblr, TGWTG, and thousands of others.  That's what got this ball rolling!  Reddit, both the community and the team behind it, you're amazing.  And of course, thanks to the Wikimedians whose patient and inexorable pursuit of the right answer brought them to take world-changing action. Thanks to David S, David K, Cory D, and E Stark for bold action at critical times.



P.P.S. If you haven't already, show this video to as many people as you can. It works! http://fightforthefuture.org/pipa/

United States is trying to turn us into China with the internet laws.

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by ForumTroll

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by ForumTroll

I'm too lazy to actually read the bill so I will just say this. No matter how many citizens or companies oppose this it is ultimately up to the elected officials. So getting our panties in a bunch over what this bill "could" mean or "does" mean is pretty useless. I know that I will not be letting this effect and part of my life, nor will it keep me up at night worried for my life. If i broke down and thoroughly disected every bill in legislation, it still wouldn't change a damn thing.

The simple fact is Piracy DOES need to be stopped and if it takes one failed bill or some kind of mistake in order to better mend the future of the internet then so be it. You cant make a beef stew without slaughtering a few cows first. Eventually PETA will step in and be like wait wait wait a minute. At least kill them repectfully!

Restricting freedom of speach is never a good idea no matter how good your reasons for it might sound.

I agree that restricting freedom of speech is not a good idea, Although I don't think stopping piracy is restricting freedom of speech. If this bill has other components in it that does restrict freedom of speech then it will be dealt with because it is against the constitution. However, just because we are trying to protect peoples freedom to believe and preach what they want doesnt mean that they can steal something and call it their own. downloading a video game and music that people worked hard to create has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

And just letting whatever happens because regular people can't have a say is a misstake. The elected official gets elected by us and if enough people protest they often do as their voters want because otherwise they wont get re-elected.

When your choice of electing officials is between a bunch of crooked people to begin with then it doesn't matter who you choose in the end the outcome is the same. Government breeds corruption, Power breeds corruption. This is why I don't vote. If my choice is between cutting off my hand and cutting of my foot why would i choose. Regardless of the outcome I don't want to lose any limbs and it has no benefit to me whatsoever.

The internet does not get better because governments censors it, censorship is worse than piracy and can lead to pretty nasty stuff in the long run. If you give a goverment the right to censor the net as it see fitting that will happen sooner or later and once it started you can't stop it.

I agree with this as well but what I am referring to is not censorship, but stopping the use of pirated material. Whatever the Bill is referring to is completely different from my thoughts on the situation.

There are better ways to stop piracy than to censor things. They have tried to close down sites like piratebay a long time and even if they would succeed it still wouldn't stop pirates. Here is Sweden most people don't download music anymore because we got a good legal alternative instead in Spotify. People don't pirate copy MMOs because you pay for server space instead of just the game. Companies needs to think like that instead of just raising their prices and blame piracy.

Again, I am not supporting this Bill, what I am saying is that it is a first step to our country doing something to limit pirating. Whether in the end the government requires that companies take there own precautions, or if they find a solution somewhere within the law doesn't matter to me. There are many steps that bills take before they are even considered, many rewrites take place before bills are passed. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes another 10 years for somthing like this to even meet the requirements to make it through.

 

First, there is NO practical/technical way to "stop piracy" that doesn't have VERY nasty side effects, and implications FAR beyond its supposed goal.  Look at how the DMCA has been totally abused at this point. The current hysteria from Big Content is more about resisting a change of business model, than a practical approach to reality as it exists. 

They have grown so used to having things their own way (by out right buying various politicians, and thus contributing to the systems corruption) that they have developed a bad case of tunnel vision.  Because of that, they underestimated the power of the opposition to their current push.

They and the politcians they have purchased in the various nation state governments, do NOT care what the consumers/general population thinks about any of this (thats really the least of their concerns). But they didn't take into account that Google, Face Book and many of the others have also made generous "contributions" to many powerful politicians themselves, and those politicians are the ones in the opposition. 

Those who go on (and on...) about "stopping piracy" are either shills for Big Content at some level, are ignorant of the technical realities involved, or have some other agenda in mind (or some combination of the above). 

I am definitly ignorant of the technical realities involved. Lets look at this from a different perspective though shall we. The hackers point of view. If they can dedicate all there time to cracking games and various other methods of leaking media on the web, then they could just as easily hack these pirates and shut them down for good. You guys are blaming the government, new laws, anyone you possibly can because these losers who think everything should be free are breaking the law. Maybe it's time to start pointing the finger at the people already doing something wrong rather than the people who are trying to correct the mistake. No matter how misguided there ideas may be, there ultimate goal is commendable. I bet annonymous in all there "power and glory" could shut down these sites in a heartbeat. Instead they decide to go against the flow of humanity and do the very same thing that got us to this point in the first place. Meanwhile the same people on this forum who support annonymous also are against working to fix piracy.

You sir, should have added a hearty hoho after your post, Shiver me timbers and batton down the hatches. It's going to be a rough ride.

SOPA in Greek means BE QUIET.  Kinda scarry.  Hush our free speech.

Online Piracy should be stopped, online privacy should not be invaded.  You can't stop online piracy you can only enforce it using more strict consequences.  You invade the privacy of a user you get to see everything:  banking records, credit card information, addresses, emails, etc.  I don't like idea at all.  It's seems like they are taking away liberties which is highly unconstitutional.

Originally posted by ForumTroll

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by ForumTroll

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by ForumTroll

I'm too lazy to actually read the bill so I will just say this. No matter how many citizens or companies oppose this it is ultimately up to the elected officials. So getting our panties in a bunch over what this bill "could" mean or "does" mean is pretty useless. I know that I will not be letting this effect and part of my life, nor will it keep me up at night worried for my life. If i broke down and thoroughly disected every bill in legislation, it still wouldn't change a damn thing.

The simple fact is Piracy DOES need to be stopped and if it takes one failed bill or some kind of mistake in order to better mend the future of the internet then so be it. You cant make a beef stew without slaughtering a few cows first. Eventually PETA will step in and be like wait wait wait a minute. At least kill them repectfully!

Restricting freedom of speach is never a good idea no matter how good your reasons for it might sound.

I agree that restricting freedom of speech is not a good idea, Although I don't think stopping piracy is restricting freedom of speech. If this bill has other components in it that does restrict freedom of speech then it will be dealt with because it is against the constitution. However, just because we are trying to protect peoples freedom to believe and preach what they want doesnt mean that they can steal something and call it their own. downloading a video game and music that people worked hard to create has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

And just letting whatever happens because regular people can't have a say is a misstake. The elected official gets elected by us and if enough people protest they often do as their voters want because otherwise they wont get re-elected.

When your choice of electing officials is between a bunch of crooked people to begin with then it doesn't matter who you choose in the end the outcome is the same. Government breeds corruption, Power breeds corruption. This is why I don't vote. If my choice is between cutting off my hand and cutting of my foot why would i choose. Regardless of the outcome I don't want to lose any limbs and it has no benefit to me whatsoever.

The internet does not get better because governments censors it, censorship is worse than piracy and can lead to pretty nasty stuff in the long run. If you give a goverment the right to censor the net as it see fitting that will happen sooner or later and once it started you can't stop it.

I agree with this as well but what I am referring to is not censorship, but stopping the use of pirated material. Whatever the Bill is referring to is completely different from my thoughts on the situation.

There are better ways to stop piracy than to censor things. They have tried to close down sites like piratebay a long time and even if they would succeed it still wouldn't stop pirates. Here is Sweden most people don't download music anymore because we got a good legal alternative instead in Spotify. People don't pirate copy MMOs because you pay for server space instead of just the game. Companies needs to think like that instead of just raising their prices and blame piracy.

Again, I am not supporting this Bill, what I am saying is that it is a first step to our country doing something to limit pirating. Whether in the end the government requires that companies take there own precautions, or if they find a solution somewhere within the law doesn't matter to me. There are many steps that bills take before they are even considered, many rewrites take place before bills are passed. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes another 10 years for somthing like this to even meet the requirements to make it through.

 

First, there is NO practical/technical way to "stop piracy" that doesn't have VERY nasty side effects, and implications FAR beyond its supposed goal.  Look at how the DMCA has been totally abused at this point. The current hysteria from Big Content is more about resisting a change of business model, than a practical approach to reality as it exists. 

They have grown so used to having things their own way (by out right buying various politicians, and thus contributing to the systems corruption) that they have developed a bad case of tunnel vision.  Because of that, they underestimated the power of the opposition to their current push.

They and the politcians they have purchased in the various nation state governments, do NOT care what the consumers/general population thinks about any of this (thats really the least of their concerns). But they didn't take into account that Google, Face Book and many of the others have also made generous "contributions" to many powerful politicians themselves, and those politicians are the ones in the opposition. 

Those who go on (and on...) about "stopping piracy" are either shills for Big Content at some level, are ignorant of the technical realities involved, or have some other agenda in mind (or some combination of the above). 

I am definitly ignorant of the technical realities involved. Lets look at this from a different perspective though shall we. The hackers point of view. If they can dedicate all there time to cracking games and various other methods of leaking media on the web, then they could just as easily hack these pirates and shut them down for good. You guys are blaming the government, new laws, anyone you possibly can because these losers who think everything should be free are breaking the law. Maybe it's time to start pointing the finger at the people already doing something wrong rather than the people who are trying to correct the mistake. No matter how misguided there ideas may be, there ultimate goal is commendable. I bet annonymous in all there "power and glory" could shut down these sites in a heartbeat. Instead they decide to go against the flow of humanity and do the very same thing that got us to this point in the first place. Meanwhile the same people on this forum who support annonymous also are against working to fix piracy.

You sir, should have added a hearty hoho after your post, Shiver me timbers and batton down the hatches. It's going to be a rough ride.

No, more like Avast Me Mateies, make'em walk the gang plank down to Davy Jone's locker!... ^^  But yours wasn't even a good attempt at a smear.  Simply because one opposes corruption, and ignorant, ham handed tactics that will not work, and in fact will actually make various matters worse, doesn't make one a supporter of piracy. 

Anyone who has been paying attention, has seen how the DMCA has been totally abused.  Yet those guilty of serial abuse, have not been punished.  At no point in this process has anyone really bothered to ask what the real cost of all of this corruption, fear mongering and distortion has been.  Big Content will NEVER be happy, no matter how draconian the laws, their political lap dogs pass, nor how dire the punishments involved become. 

Why? Because at every step of the way, they will be at least two to three steps behind the development cycle.  Anyone who has been watching copy protection (today DRM) develop in the digital world, would tell you the same thing.  From the start to this very day, it remains a near total waste of time/talent and money.  There is, and likely never will be an "uncrackable" system. EVERY single copy protection system that has made that claim over years, and years... Has been proven wrong. Usually not that long after release (or some times before...). 

In terms of games and such, the only people that are impacted by the various DRM attempts are the companies legitmate customers.  One only has to look at Ubisofts latest hare brained scheme (and the egg thats been rolling down their face), to realize how foolish such attempts are. 

Couple in a system like the Internet, and matters grow even worse. What is needed is not more corruption of governments (they do that well enough on their own) but a rational, reasonable, realistic approach.  Perhaps a change of business model?  Even with all of this hideous piracy thats been going on, I seem to recall that the various studios have still been making billions upon billions...

Perhaps, rather than using some of that money to corrupt the political systems around the world, they should apply it to looking at another approach to the problem?  Especially now that their opposition has demonstrated that the days of them having things all their own way are near their end.

As the laws are currently written they should not be passed. With a simple outside the US DNS server you completely circumvent the law while for those that do not use such things net access times will be hurt.

There is a problem with IP protections that need to be addressed. But that needs to be through treaties and other actions and not through this legislation as written.

No, it should not be stopped. 

When you say the the big corporations are " turning our government to communism ", you are wrong.

Corporations work more like the old feudal system (Vassels and Lords). So beware! If we let them use legislation like SOPA and PIPA to take away our hard fought freedoms the New Nobility ( the 1% that make up the richest people in America) will force us into being the modern equivalent of a serf.

Yes it should be stopped.  We here in America do not need to be like China and Iran.  Our government cannot be trusted to fliter the internet.   I do not want the government to tell me which websites are okay and which are not okay.

This is about our freedoms.  The internet is the last truly free place on earth, both free speech and personal choice still exist and we need to fight to keep it that way.

This is nothing more than the Music and Movie industries trying to past the cost of fighting piracy on to the American tax payer, nothing more, nothing less.  When did it become the governments job to protect the Music and Moive industries?  Did you guys forgot we are BROKE and cannot spend more money on something that those industries should be paying for?

Both Bills will not stop piracy, it will not even dent it.  These laws will not stop piracy because most piracy sites are located in other countries outside the law of the USA.  This will not stop them, shut them down or even punish them, it will punish the average American, not the criminals.  

This is nothing more than another example of how corporations have the real power not "WE the PEOPLE"

Originally posted by Himshim

No, it should not be stopped. 

Why?  Explain your position please because I simply do not understand how anyone could be for these bills.

Today's news:

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/01/megaupload-indicted-shuttered/

So apparently the IP industries have no problem getting accused copyright infringing sites shut down, and having those related to said sites arrested outside of the US.

Yup, this was done through DMCA.

So again, why the hell would they also need SOPA and PIPA?

Originally posted by Ceridith

Today's news:

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/01/megaupload-indicted-shuttered/

So apparently the IP industries have no problem getting accused copyright infringing sites shut down, and having those related to said sites arrested outside of the US.

Yup, this was done through DMCA.

So again, why the hell would they also need SOPA and PIPA?

Too pass on the cost of fighting piracy to the American tax payer.  End of Story.  The Music and Movie Industries want to keep  more of their millions, so they figured they could get the government to fight piracy for them so they do not have to spend the money and they can keep more of their money.  

That is what is happening.  No other reason for SOPA or PIPA.

Another link of the above.

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by Ceridith

Today's news:

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/01/megaupload-indicted-shuttered/

So apparently the IP industries have no problem getting accused copyright infringing sites shut down, and having those related to said sites arrested outside of the US.

Yup, this was done through DMCA.

So again, why the hell would they also need SOPA and PIPA?

Too pass on the cost of fighting piracy to the American tax payer.  End of Story.  The Music and Movie Industries want to keep  more of their millions, so they figured they could get the government to fight piracy for them so they do not have to spend the money and they can keep more of their money.  

That is what is happening.  No other reason for SOPA or PIPA.

And so it begins..   Megaupload is now responsible for the uploading of content by it's users.  These guys are going to have one hell of time making all the charges stick from watching how things in the past have unfolded with sites like TPB.  I'd imagine they are going to have to prove the site didn't take down copyrighted material when it was made aware that such material existed on it's servers.  No doubt it had copyright material on the site. Though it also shared a lot of legit material as well such as game mods ect.

These are the same asshats backing this move that went after TPB and other torrent sites which failed. Edit to add: At least in their main goal. The same asshats which have download links to things like bitorrent and adds for P2P sites even today. Looking at you CNET.  The same asshats behind SOPA AND PIPA.

Guilty as charged! Down you go! Forget due process. Youtube I want you taken down next.  Wikipedia, you're after that. Serious as a heart attack.  If we're going to start taking down sites that host copyrighted material which doesn't belong to them better dam well take them all down. Not pick and choose while saying, "Yes this one does the same thing but we'll let it slide." Forget about going after the users who uploaded that content.

The Cynical Brit and his thoughts on SOPA and PIPA.   Funny thing this isn't the first time in recent months the site was taken down.

to simply explain how sopa works 

look at the clothes you are wearing... the name brand the fancy bling bling... now take it off and never ever wear it again.. thats sopa... 

if you dont own the rights to it you cant use it.. if they dont like it they get it removed.. pretty much mmorpg could put up a picture of a ork from WoW an blizzard could have mmorpg DNSed and sued for it. without any word of warning or such. 

youtube will not exist, photobucket, myspace, facebook ect will all stop existing ... live stream wont operate anymore other then a promo video site for movies. as you the end user will have every stripped away.  dmca is tame compaired to sopa/pipa :/ 

sad thing is... dns doesnt stop crap all if you have the IP to the site you can still access sites that arent fully shut down.. and well its meant to stop pirates... ROFL RRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOFFFFFFFFFFFFLLLLL.... they said secuROM was going to stop pirates... they claimed many other forms of anti-hack/cheat/copy would stop pirates... 

it doesnt and it wont.. all it does is screws over the legit user of the internet people in the states will lose their non-usa based websites and people not in the states will lose access to usa websites if any of them violate the sopa/pipa bill... (aka if you arent brown nosing the entertainment groups.. your site is gone)

i dont know about anyone else but actually reading the sopa bill gave me such a bloody headache...

Another slap from reality is that more than half of the people who say "Oh gosh SOPA/PIPA sounds awful" will more than likely go fund the people who support such radical actions as these. Lets be honest, no one here has the spine to hold any form of pressure against that which is corrupt. Instead the Greater America will go about its day accepting what their fed and giving their money up for whatever they're told they need. Ask yourself what do you think is more important to these companies, your money or this bill? This bill would naturally make their already easy lives much more easier, but giving them your money is just damning, as you're oppenly supporting these companies in a finacial sense. There's no doubt in my mind that many of you will forget these issues after they pass, and you will still convince yourself that even after these companies made their motives clear, that everything will return to the happy blissfulness that you so fondly remember. When in reality each and every one of you digs their grave a bit deeper with each passing day.