TBH, I couldn't care less about graphics when it comes to inmersion.

For me inmersion is about the world itself, not how it looks. It's about player driven economy, lively and dinamic world, clan politics, pc and npc factions, storyline...

Graphics? well, it can help, but I do not need them at all to feel inmersed. 

How it looks obviously is a big part. A NPC models that looks like a badly drawn by a 3rd grader wont do it for me.

However, aesthetics trumps graphical power. It is the design that matters. Plus, it does not need to be realistic. I am going for the fun factor, not if the axe really look like a real axe here.

But beyond graphics, animation is also important. Even canned animation goes a LONG way if there are many and they vary.

For me immersion really depends on whether In my head I feel like the character I play.  If I am playing a dagger wielding rogue, the gameplay has to feel 'stabby'.  When I play a mage I need to feel like the character is an arrogant SOB who throws fireballs around like it is nothing. 

Graphicly, it is the quality of the animations that give me a feel for the character.  The quality of the textures are secondary.

Originally posted by Torik

For me immersion really depends on whether In my head I feel like the character I play.  If I am playing a dagger wielding rogue, the gameplay has to feel 'stabby'.  When I play a mage I need to feel like the character is an arrogant SOB who throws fireballs around like it is nothing. 

Graphicly, it is the quality of the animations that give me a feel for the character.  The quality of the textures are secondary.

many say character animations, and NPC models are important to them. For me its not. For me its the geography and art direction of the world itself.

Ironically I felt VERY immersed in Xyson which has a graphics engine that looks like it was made in the 80s but I actually like it better than the world of WoW

Selling-point and potential game-breaker as well in mmropg's.

If game has a feeling of a virtual world (huge rarity nowadays) then it is huge plus, if immersion is breaked with for example cash shop in mmorpg then it is game-breaker.

I have my personal definition of immersion. For example Swtor for me is NOT immersive, because game does not create virtual world (player dependancy not existant, no player made economy, heavy instancing  , world that feel dead ,etc)

A community, it has nothing to do with Graphics.

When an mmo is on rails like EVERY mmo that had been released as of the past two years we are left with crap for immersion. Like I say Graphics are nothing !

Originally posted by page

A community, it has nothing to do with Graphics.

When an mmo is on rails like EVERY mmo that had been released as of the past two years we are left with crap for immersion. Like I say Graphics are nothing !

It depends on the person.

Community doesnt mean sh*t to me when it comes to immerison. For me its what I see. When I start the game I want to feel I am in the world for real. When I go to bed I want my memories of my in game events to be as vivid as real life. thus, for me graphics matter, people s8ck

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by page

A community, it has nothing to do with Graphics.

When an mmo is on rails like EVERY mmo that had been released as of the past two years we are left with crap for immersion. Like I say Graphics are nothing !

It depends on the person.

Community doesnt mean sh*t to me when it comes to immerison. For me its what I see. When I start the game I want to feel I am in the world for real. When I go to bed I want my memories of my in game events to be as vivid as real life. thus, for me graphics matter, people s8ck

Exactly.

MMORPGs are games. If the game environment is not immersive, then no amount of "community" will help. Good scripted small group content, with good graphics, animation and ambient,  is what i am going for.

[mod edit] (for an Evil Dead reference? really?)

Because immersion is simply "losing yourself in the game, and track of time, etc". It's forgetting everything around you while you zone out in a game, and you can do that with Tetris. The *problem* is, that while playing games none of you can turn off then spoiled inner-critic, and *choose* to take yourself out of the experience and harshly reprimand it when a tree doesn't look real enough, or shoulder pads have too many pointy edges. It *should* effect you no more than a moment, pretty much what's necessary to assess it, and then get over it.... but nope. It's all too worthy of a lengthy discussion about "why it sucks", distancing yourself further from ever enjoying it.

Normal people can get "immersed" in an ugly flash game, that is, unless they make a *conscious decision* to hate it from the start because it's ugly.

So in all seriousness, the only immersion-breaking point of any MMO is waiting in queue - that's it!

It's the only time you really have an excuse to back away from the keyboard, look around the room, and assess how you are wasting your life.

Originally posted by GTwander

[mod edit]

Because immersion is simply "losing yourself in the game, and track of time, etc". It's forgetting everything around you while you zone out in a game, and you can do that with Tetris. The *problem* is, that while playing games none of you can turn off then spoiled inner-critic, and *choose* to take yourself out of the experience and harshly reprimand it when a tree doesn't look real enough, or shoulder pads have too many pointy edges. It *should* effect you no more than a moment, pretty much what's necessary to assess it, and then get over it.... but nope. It's all too worthy of a lengthy discussion about "why it sucks", distancing yourself further from ever enjoying it.

Normal people can get "immersed" in an ugly flash game, that is, unless they make a *conscious decision* to hate it from the start because it's ugly.

 

So in all seriousness, the only immersion-breaking point of any MMO is waiting in queue - that's it!

It's the only time you really have an excuse to back away from the keyboard, look around the room, and assess how you are wasting your life.

I looked up the word and I have to say you are right. I dont know what word I should replace my point with though because it is different. Intrestingly the word would have to be a new word to describe that feeling that when your memories of a game event are just as vivid as memories or real events. Like you were actually there.

That is what I look for in computer technology when it comes to games. Without it I might as well use dice and a spreadsheet.

I would like to throw the term "charm" out there, because it's an unexplainable factor as to why some people get wrapped up in a universe, while other's don't. Also explains the differing opinions on giant shoulder-wear.

Fun > Immersion.

If something hinders my fun, I rather have fun over immersion.

As much as I like to focus on the abstractions and game mechancis,I have to admit that a well-crafted details such smooth ambient animations (waterflow, vegetation, weather effects, critters) and nice, non-intrusive background music does have a real impact in my enjoyment of a game.  For visuals, it's mostly in the first 30-60 days, because after that I start to filter out all the details and just see the algorithms.  Background sound is almost the reverse: I rarely notice it at first, but over time it aquires meaning and context and the ability to snap me into a familiar mood.

There seem to be two different kinds of immersion: a short living one that is defined by detailed graphics and a lasting one defined by enough empty space for your fantasy. The latter unfortunately can only be found in older titles lik AC or UO cause eye candy nowadays seems to promise the big money. As long as the clientage happy joins in that game I've not much hope in changing this situation anytime soon.

If dealing with Owen is "immersion", then fuck immersion.

I do like to have a lively place that the folks congregate to. IMO TOR should introduce mini card games, or something along that line in the cantinas to make them more interesting.

I also would like to see any game make an arena where folks could bet on outcomes of fights. There would have to be a way to ensure both combatants played to the best of their ability, and if so, it could really draw a crowd I bet.

graphics are very important to me, but they don't create immersion (even if it's not the right word, it still gets the point across) as such. Immersion (for me at least) is created by my ability to make the character act in the way that I want. My ability to bring the character to life. Every different action that I can do adds to my immersion within the game. Running, walking, jumping, leaping, leaning, crawling, kneeling, vomiting, burping, sneezing, jogging, skipping, waxing on, waxing off, etc.

Graphics are the reason that I want to make my character look better. If my character was a glowing square then I really don't care about improving it, but if it's a person, then I want them to have cool shades and flashy clothes. It's not immersion (or at least it's not my perspective of immersion)

As for how important immersion is to me. The greatest game I could imagine, would work on hardware that confused my brain into letting me feel like I was truly within the embodiment of my character.

How important is immersion to me? It's paramount for me too. I can't and won't play unless I feel very immersed. The game isn't enjoyable without the feeling of immersion.

How important does the graphical style and quality of the graphics play a role in that immersion for me? The style and quality of the graphics are hardly important to me at all, so long as the graphics are not cartoony (WOW), Asian (L2), or childish (Glitch). The more realistic the graphics look, the more likely the graphics will contribute to a feeling of immersion for me.

DAOC has my favorite graphics. They've always looked nice to me and even somewhat realistic, for their age. It's how I prefer mmo graphics to look, although admittedly they are somewhat outdated now. I know many will disagree with my high opinion of DAOC's graphics... please don't derail the thread just to tell me how wrong I am. That's just how I feel about them.

Originally posted by miteshu

Fun > Immersion.

 

If something hinders my fun, I rather have fun over immersion.

To be immersed in something is to be having fun. Being immersed in a game is not the same as wishing to be a character in the world you're playing, it just means to be so concentrated or 'into' a task that the rest of the world sort of fades, time flies, etc. That's why you can be 'immersed' in just about anything you like, even just sitting around listening to music.

Like everything else, the internet grabbed hold of the concept, confused its meaning and people just ran with it.

Originally posted by Jimmac

How important is immersion to me? It's paramount for me too. I can't and won't play unless I feel very immersed. The game isn't enjoyable without the feeling of immersion.

How important does the graphical style and quality of the graphics play a role in that immersion for me? The style and quality of the graphics are hardly important to me at all, so long as the graphics are not cartoony (WOW), Asian (L2), or childish (Glitch). The more realistic the graphics look, the more likely the graphics will contribute to a feeling of immersion for me.

DAOC has my favorite graphics. They've always looked nice to me and even somewhat realistic, for their age. It's how I prefer mmo graphics to look, although admittedly they are somewhat outdated now. I know many will disagree with my high opinion of DAOC's graphics... please don't derail the thread just to tell me how wrong I am. That's just how I feel about them.

Joo is wrong!!!!!!!!!!! heh

I hear ya....after playing EQ so long I couldnt get into WOW when it launched. One of several games I bought at launch, only to give up before m month was done. That said, it was the same for DAoC....didnt make it thru first month. That was more of a no PVE thing though.