For me the only legitimate reason to keep Wow type of boss raids is to keep some easy to make weekly events for the guilds. The rest are just not valid reasons in my eyes, since GW2 offer other means to get to similar results, and better means i think.
 
They are boss fight in GW2, everyone saw them with the DE demos (in fact Boss fight monopolized the whole DE aspect, and i hope DE mean a lot more than just Boss fight), and they are clearly more impressive than any Wow raids, if you want your guild to participate, you'll just have to call them when you see such event happening. Also you'll have "competitive" pve in the dungeons and once more this make so much more sense, its not hard to understand pve can be a lot more interesting in a dungeon setting rather than for a single boss encounter, your AI is so limited by the sinple fact that a Boss is a single bag of hp and only have few minion at best. You can work on so many more things in a dungeon like path, spawn timers, patrols, dimension of rooms... All those stuff are absent of Boss fight. And on top of that you'll have boss in dungeons too, so you loose nothing really here. The dungeon setting is just so much more entertaining to begin with, and can include so much more variables. And a somewhat small group having to really work together just make so much more sense than trying to have a whole guild or alliance work like a single man, especially if you look for efficiency and not just a good moment to gather the guild mates as it used to be pre WOw.
 
But ye, i guess guilds will have to find an other way to make weekly pve events. Once more that's the only valid reason to ask Wow raids imo. But then again in GW2 you are supposed to participate in events, not create them, because you are not supposed to cut populations and create segregation. But still this reason is valid, it just that that reason don't fit the GW2 concept of "everyone work with each other in a symbiosis" or something to that taste.

Originally posted by Bunks

Try to understand this from a person who walks into this from a totally ignorant perspective, the first time you get exposed to it, you sit there open jawed and shocked at the sheer illogical nature to it. Raiding, like the holy trinity, are bizarre concepts and quite artificially controlling things.

Their reaction to GW2's DE chains:  "But I was standing right here a week ago and I could have sworn there was a boss!!  Am I locked out??"

Originally posted by Requiamer

 
But ye, i guess guilds will have to find an other way to make weekly pve events. Once more that's the only valid reason to ask Wow raids imo. But then again in GW2 you are supposed to participate in events, not create them, because you are not supposed to cut populations and create segregation. But still this reason is valid, it just that that reason don't fit the GW2 concept of "everyone work with each other in a symbiosis" or something to that taste.

Ever think that the whole structure of guilds need to be reexamined. Which I think Anet already understand by allowing you  to be in multiple guilds.

Some guilds will be social guilds, some will be event achievment guilds, some will be guilds to deal with DE's just to fight back DE's that alter the world(world raids). Some guilds will striclty PVP guilds. Think about it, in WOW a guild leader was more like an event scheduler. In GW2, you may have some of those, but you will also have some where the leader is just a general calling up troops to put out world fires. Who knows how it all unfolds. Human nature will eventually shape it, Anet seems to be flexible enough to allow that to happen.

Originally posted by Eir_S

 

Their reaction to GW2's DE chains:  "But I was standing right here a week ago and I could have sworn there was a boss!!  Am I locked out??"

now you're just being mean :)

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by IPolygon

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Can't be the only one who see this as a negative can I?

 

At the end of the day no raids= Less content to do imo.

Oh, but you have raids. Try to defeat the hard dynamic events and come back.

Those arn't raids.

 

That would be like calling Heroics in WoW raids.

 

And you kind of missed my point. No raids=Less content.

Well, I guess DE chains for more than 60 players is bigger than raids then.

Why is no raids less content. Devs can put their time into more meaningful content that not only 5% of the whole playerbase actually plays. Instead they put out one DE every 6 hours for all players out there. Well, you could explain what raids are or what qualifies as raids. With regards to the mechanics of GW2, which are obviously different from WoW, I could put your worries to rest.

No you have it wrong.

No raids doesn't mean less content.

No raids equals more content for the entire playerbase.

Take away the crazy amount of developer time that it takes to design, balance and test raid content that is focused at a very small group of players and you have more time for the developers to design content for everyone (crafting, quests, small man dungeons, Classes, pvp, events, zones).

Screw content designed exclusively for big hardcore guilds, if you want that stuff go back and play another game with a raid focus like WoW or Rift.

The only thing i fear is that the big event bosses outdoor will be pretty facerollable. Otherwise the average joe might nog be able to complete it :)  I have done my share of 'looking for raid bosses in WoW''  and im affraid it's going in that direction.

But we'll see what happens.

Teqwatil the Sunless (sp?) is one of the games Dynamic Event bosses, which requires 10+ people to defeat and has multiple phases of battle and objectives surrounding him to be completed.

And as one of the videos states, he is one of the smaller dragons...

Now imagine when you get to fight one of the larger dragons, who are the size of -mountains-, no wait scratch that.... the size of  -Mountain Ranges- !

See those spikey bits? Thats a sleeping dragon.

See those things in the middle right of the picture? Those are ships.

Yeah...

Originally posted by Loke666

Interesting points even if I think a lot of it is because the game don't have what we usually call "raid gear" as well. It is the raid gear that is what make people bother to gather 25 or 40 players for a dungeon.

I think they made the right call.

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by Bunks

Try to understand this from a person who walks into this from a totally ignorant perspective, the first time you get exposed to it, you sit there open jawed and shocked at the sheer illogical nature to it. Raiding, like the holy trinity, are bizarre concepts and quite artificially controlling things.

Their reaction to GW2's DE chains:  "But I was standing right here a week ago and I could have sworn there was a boss!!  Am I locked out??"

---

Originally posted by MMOExposed

---

Originally posted by Eir_S

---

Originally posted by Bunks
Try to understand this from a person who walks into this from a totally ignorant perspective, the first time you get exposed to it, you sit there open jawed and shocked at the sheer illogical nature to it. Raiding, like the holy trinity, are bizarre concepts and quite artificially controlling things.

---

Their reaction to GW2's DE chains:  "But I was standing right here a week ago and I could have sworn there was a boss!!  Am I locked out??"

---

 Iam locked out alright!! Because some brats did the cool events in the area, now I am forced to wait for resets... Sounds like a lockout to me ;-(

---

Half full or half empty? *grin*

Originally posted by Bunks

Ever think that the whole structure of guilds need to be reexamined. Which I think Anet already understand by allowing you  to be in multiple guilds.

Some guilds will be social guilds, some will be event achievment guilds, some will be guilds to deal with DE's just to fight back DE's that alter the world(world raids). Some guilds will striclty PVP guilds. Think about it, in WOW a guild leader was more like an event scheduler. In GW2, you may have some of those, but you will also have some where the leader is just a general calling up troops to put out world fires. Who knows how it all unfolds. Human nature will eventually shape it, Anet seems to be flexible enough to allow that to happen.

You might be right. It is possible that in the future you will be member of  merchant crafting guild, a small adventurer guild and a larger guild for PvP.

I can surely see the advantages in both themeparks and sandbox games, right now plenty of people have one character for crafting, one for PvE and one for PvP just so they can get access to the right guild.

But I think many guilds will miss the point and demand that the players only lock themselves to a single guild anyways.

---

Originally posted by Loke666

---

Originally posted by Bunks
Ever think that the whole structure of guilds need to be reexamined. Which I think Anet already understand by allowing you  to be in multiple guilds.
Some guilds will be social guilds, some will be event achievment guilds, some will be guilds to deal with DE's just to fight back DE's that alter the world(world raids). Some guilds will striclty PVP guilds. Think about it, in WOW a guild leader was more like an event scheduler. In GW2, you may have some of those, but you will also have some where the leader is just a general calling up troops to put out world fires. Who knows how it all unfolds. Human nature will eventually shape it, Anet seems to be flexible enough to allow that to happen.

---

You might be right. It is possible that in the future you will be member of  merchant crafting guild, a small adventurer guild and a larger guild for PvP.
I can surely see the advantages in both themeparks and sandbox games, right now plenty of people have one character for crafting, one for PvE and one for PvP just so they can get access to the right guild.
But I think many guilds will miss the point and demand that the players only lock themselves to a single guild anyways.

---

 
I hope they won't ask to, and i won't listen them if they do.
 
Multiple guilds just make sense to me, that's what happen in real world. People stay with others because they share some common occupation, so why lock them into one guild. Imo mmo guild aren't guild. Guild was in Muds, so Uo call them guild and wanted something similar. But failed because mmo aren't set up like Muds, you have no real in game responsibilities and cannot make communities linked to the inside part of the game. Well not as much as it was in Muds at least. In some Muds you had a guy in charge of the ranger guild, the mage guild and the rest.
 
So in mmo they kind of evolved to me as medieval feudal system, which is really totally different. You have the lord and the vassals and the rest, those are really close minded. Guilds aren't that at all, medieval guilds are about profession like blacksmith or merchant or whatever, those are open minded. You can have few guilds, but belong to only one feudal Lord.
 
 
Don't know how they worked on guilds in GW2 tbh, wish i could tell  more, but i really like the basic idea, should have always been like this imo. The feudal aspect worked in some game like Lineage, but i didn't like the concept that much, i don't like authority anyway hehe

Originally posted by fony

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by thedarkess

Can someone explain me the difference between dungeon and a raid?

A dungeon usually have 5 or 6 players, a raid is between 10 and 48.

initially in EQ raids were not strictly bound by numbers of players. guild wars and guild wars 2 have dungeon crawls, and if you think of dungeon/raid in WoW terms then they would be raids. they are not quick consumable, low difficulty content that you run in the morning before school. they take an hour or more to do, and they are hard. 

Originally posted by MMOExposed

 

That's not a raid. Time it takes to do something doesn't make it a raid. Since Vanilla WoW dungeons also took hours to do. They were longer than the PvP zone raids! A raid is based on the size of the group. Raids are usually classes as being larger than the standard party size set forth by the game mechanics. For example in WoW, a player party was 5 people. In Oder to add more people, you would need to convert to a raid, meaning more than typical 5 people, sized groups.

Yeah, there have been plenty of dungeons for a single group that are harder than many raids.

The real difficulty with most raids is to get a huge group of players together and manage them through a single boss fight or large raid dungeon depending on the purpose of the raid.

EQ2 is a great example of raids,it have both open world raid bosses, small raid instances and huge raid dungeons. A standard party there is 6 players, raids consist of 2 to 6 regular parties.

Edit: I hate my new cheap keyboard, stay away from Media-tech whatever you do.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Bunks

Ever think that the whole structure of guilds need to be reexamined. Which I think Anet already understand by allowing you  to be in multiple guilds.

Some guilds will be social guilds, some will be event achievment guilds, some will be guilds to deal with DE's just to fight back DE's that alter the world(world raids). Some guilds will striclty PVP guilds. Think about it, in WOW a guild leader was more like an event scheduler. In GW2, you may have some of those, but you will also have some where the leader is just a general calling up troops to put out world fires. Who knows how it all unfolds. Human nature will eventually shape it, Anet seems to be flexible enough to allow that to happen.

You might be right. It is possible that in the future you will be member of  merchant crafting guild, a small adventurer guild and a larger guild for PvP.

I can surely see the advantages in both themeparks and sandbox games, right now plenty of people have one character for crafting, one for PvE and one for PvP just so they can get access to the right guild.

But I think many guilds will miss the point and demand that the players only lock themselves to a single guild anyways.

I think some will miss the point at the beggining but they'll realize how amazing a tool it is to be able to be in multiple guilds, heck I was thinking of starting a guild to unite everyone on the server for when they want to join WvWvW so that they can join in and be an active part of organized effort to win the battle against other servers whenever they want.

Those kind of guilds honestly make me think of raids though traditional raids are sort of pointless in my opinion it's just a dungeon with a higher difficulty to find people and the be honest it usually just takes longer before starting fights because of everyones personal lives interfering with it.

Originally posted by Fareas

I think some will miss the point at the beggining but they'll realize how amazing a tool it is to be able to be in multiple guilds, heck I was thinking of starting a guild to unite everyone on the server for when they want to join WvWvW so that they can join in and be an active part of organized effort to win the battle against other servers whenever they want.

Those kind of guilds honestly make me think of raids though traditional raids are sort of pointless in my opinion it's just a dungeon with a higher difficulty to find people and the be honest it usually just takes longer before starting fights because of everyones personal lives interfering with it.

That might be a good idea, or you could have say 2 or 3 guilds with different combat objectives in the Mists. 

But the announcements I seen to join guilds so far have all stated that only one guild is acceptable so lets hope people come around. :)

Originally posted by Fareas

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Bunks

Ever think that the whole structure of guilds need to be reexamined. Which I think Anet already understand by allowing you  to be in multiple guilds.

Some guilds will be social guilds, some will be event achievment guilds, some will be guilds to deal with DE's just to fight back DE's that alter the world(world raids). Some guilds will striclty PVP guilds. Think about it, in WOW a guild leader was more like an event scheduler. In GW2, you may have some of those, but you will also have some where the leader is just a general calling up troops to put out world fires. Who knows how it all unfolds. Human nature will eventually shape it, Anet seems to be flexible enough to allow that to happen.

You might be right. It is possible that in the future you will be member of  merchant crafting guild, a small adventurer guild and a larger guild for PvP.

I can surely see the advantages in both themeparks and sandbox games, right now plenty of people have one character for crafting, one for PvE and one for PvP just so they can get access to the right guild.

But I think many guilds will miss the point and demand that the players only lock themselves to a single guild anyways.

I think some will miss the point at the beggining but they'll realize how amazing a tool it is to be able to be in multiple guilds, heck I was thinking of starting a guild to unite everyone on the server for when they want to join WvWvW so that they can join in and be an active part of organized effort to win the battle against other servers whenever they want.

Those kind of guilds honestly make me think of raids though traditional raids are sort of pointless in my opinion it's just a dungeon with a higher difficulty to find people and the be honest it usually just takes longer before starting fights because of everyones personal lives interfering with it.

Exactly my point. The only limit to the  way guilds will be setup and used, will be within the limits of the players themselves. Myself personally, I would love to be part of a guild that's number one mission is to scout the world and defend it against changing events(invasions) but at the same time be in a guild that is nothing but people who pride themselves on PVP esports.

Good point i was thinking how it would be nice to actualy make a guild, and don't have to think if it will grow to something or not, but just do what i want to do and don't have to really care. In the one guild setting you really have to make it work, and its a big strees for nothing for a lot of poeple. That remind one of this asian themepark where i had a very strong party group, but everyone was in an other guild, and none would quit his guild and make a new one just because we were partying every night. I really missed to not be able to have multiple guilds back then.

Originally posted by Bunks

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by Castillle

There are raids.  Seen how high those dynamic events scale up to?  Yeah..some can scale up to extremely high 60+ numbers o.o  If those arent raids well...Idk what is.

You just said it!  They're dynamic events.  However, my pedantry aside, if you wanted to call them raids, it wouldn't really matter to me, but when most people refer to raids, they are specifically talking about the way most MMOs currently out define the term.  ANet even states there won't be raids "in the traditional sense".  Besides, I always pictured a raid as you know.. a raid on something.. attacking a castle etc.  In GW2 it's almost safe to say most of the "raids" come to you.

Kind of takes the control freaks out of it right? The automaton sheeple who feel they have no purpose unless some control freak tells them  what time, place, and who does what just to give them some purpose. I mean really, whoever came up with, you need to raid to get the gear you need to go raid with. Some evil twisted sociopath living in his mother basement?

That's why they aren't happy with DE, it take all the control and authoratative perks that come with raids. Like I said, Lord of the Flies live.

Try to understand this from a person who walks into this from a totally ignorant perspective, the first time you get exposed to it, you sit there open jawed and shocked at the sheer illogical nature to it. Raiding, like the holy trinity, are bizarre concepts and quite artificially controlling things.

Its not just illogical it's not even a mainstay on many mmorpgs, what happens is when a popular game is on the verge of being released Raiders typically Raid the games forums in some hope of scaring the games devs into subjugating everyone else by totally redoing the game and adding in Raid looting. Truthfully Raid centric games have only been able to hold about the same amount of subs than any other mmo can. EVE online has more subs than every WOW clone on the market right now and it has no raiding. Its not that in the beginning it wasnt an ok concept its just been done to death and it only appeals to a vocal minority of players. I never understood it myself it appeals to a group of players who hate competition from other players and generally hate pvp, they dont want other people they cant control the situation with to be near them. They want to be rewarded for playing a raid boss mini game. Which takes place in an instance impervious to outside interference. AION  allows interference and they HATE it, they cannot stand it that they can be killed by other players while doing pve. I say that even if GW2 proposed this type of system they would appose it, because its not REALLY about player preference its about control over other people playstyle preference. Your average raiders worst nightmare is being stalked by a group of really good pvpers while trying to kill a scripted monster, because the reality is they might kill the 30 foot raid boss, but the players are going to slaughter them and steal their treasure.

The reason that people try to have a raiding system is because they are still stuck in the typical WoW mentality and look for the class specific organized groups which still goes back to what Arenanet is trying to be getting rid of the Trinity class system.  i agree that if everyone really teamed up on the dynamic events you pretty much have your raid taken care of as the scaleability would be insane. People need to stop suggesting retarted crap to have a company make another WoW clone when WoW it self is imploding as you can only change the same thing so many times.  In reference to WoW you can take a terd and polish it soo many times but it is still a turd in the end.