If we define Sandbox as a game where players create content, then GW2 is a non-traditional, non-linear Themepark.  Zones have level ranges but instead of following a quest chain from A to B to C, you can do Dynamic Events in whatever order you come across them.  The game automatically mentors you down when you do lower level content so you can actually go do any event in the world of a lower level any time it's running and get a decent reward for it.  I could go into vastly more detail about the game and events and how it all works, but I'm trying to be brief.

The bottom line is that GW2 is a true MMORPG and almost completely unlike GW1 except for the lore.  It's almost completely unlike games like WoW as well.  As they say in their Manifesto Trailer, "if you love MMOs, you'll want to check out Guild Wars 2, and if you hate MMOs, you'll really want to check out Guild Wars 2."

Let's see. Actions speak louder than words. I have free time to play now. Yeah!

Shall I log in and continue to level my level 23 trooper? Or would I rather come to mmorpg.com and read threads about getting off the theme park ride? Hmmmm.  Maybe I will even post a reply or two. Tortanic, indeed! LOL

Actually I found this thread an interesting read. I am really sorry I can't be getting into my SWTOR, right now. I paid over $60, for it after all. I still have till the 20th of my first included 30 days. But I log in and feel bored. There were 8 people on Tatooine when I was on a bit ago. Sure, must be off peak.

One thing that irritates me and makes me feel more on rails is the fact that some quests (not even class quests) cannot be abandoned. I don't want to be forced to do anything in a game.  Doing these quest chains actually becomes infuriating to me, so I won't. So when I play, I have been just sticking to my class quests and pvping to level, but then you might miss out on some gear upgrades.

Started thinking about Darkfall again, as I do every 2-3 months. But I'm not happy with Aventurine's management of the game. I want a definitive answer about whether there is going to be a wipe or not prior to 2.0 and they won't cough it up.  I have a level 50 in Rift. It's pretty fun for a themepark game. But, I get bored sooner and sooner because I don't know anyone that plays it. I have a friend who went back to WoW, and I'm even thinking (just toying with the idea) of going back...but really it would only be if I couldn't get the guy to play another game. I can't see myself getting him into Darkfall now with the present state of the game and the grind for someone just starting now. I would have to re-roll, too. It could be fun.

I don't know. I have no hopes for any saviors. That is what I have learned since AoC and WAR. That's a good thing, at least. I don't regret having played SWTOR till now. It was $60 and I got that much fun out of it. And I'm not curious because I have experienced it for myself.

I still have Minecraft and Skyrim there, too.

Originally posted by jpnole

I am old enough to have played the first mmos but I didn't get started until 2005 with WoW. Since that time I played GW, AOC (max level), COH (40s and several alts), Rift (max level) and SWTOR (level 21). By no means am I a mmo vet like some folks on here, but I've played my share. Rewind to Rift. I bought a 6 month sub somehow thinking that it was a different game. It was like I was under a spell. After a month and a half, I hit max level, maxed out my crafting and suddenly it dawned on me that I was just going through the motions. I didn't play for most of the remaining 4 months of my sub time. Now with SWTOR, I had the same burnout at the 3 week mark. I was only level 21 but I maxed out a crafting tier and had the same realization. Fortunately, I only had 30 days of included box time so I was able to cancel today. I realized that I was just chasing that carrot on a  stick. No matter what the game, whether you are level 5, 10, 50 or max level, you are on an endless treadmill with no purpose other than to hit the next level, tier, etc.

 

I think I am finally ready to say good bye to the same tired old theme park formula and just wait for the right mmo to come out. Who knows when it will be. Due to the SWTOR beta and early access, I didn't get a chance to fully explore Skyrim so at least I have that to provide some sandbox entertainment, albeit non-mmo. I can't count the number of times I saw someone trash theme park games in favor of sandbox games on here.... now I understand why. I never played any of the pre 2005 sandbox mmos so I feel like I have missed out. Maybe Archage will be that game. Do we even know enough about TSW, Tera or GW2 to determine if they will be just the same old formula? I am no longer going to be a paying lab rat for these mad scientist theme park mmo creating devs. No more carrots!

Tell me about it. But watchout you might be called a hater if you mention that you are tired of SWTOR's model of game because there are lurking nerdraging fanbois on these forums. Just a fair warning.

I am in the same boat you are. I got tired of the themepark deal after leaving WoW for about four months then coming back then leaving it again for 7 months. There just doesn't seem to be something better right now to play other then solo games. All the mmo's out there are either really really old sandboxes or recent themeparks. I don't care that you can choose the color of your light saber if it leads you by the nose from one quest to the next then it's immediately boring to me.

The thing i'm excited about is GW2 and the reason? Random Dynamic Events. Let's say you head out of town into an area, some villagers run up to you and ask you for help because they are being invaded by a small army bent on looting and pillaging. If you decide not to help the town is taken over everyone killed and the same army begins to invade other towns nearby until they built up enough to actually take on the major city you just left. I want my next game to be like this, not some timed event with the same exact happenings (ahem Rift) but events that change. The thing about GW2 is in their devs example, if someone goes there and tries to help and they kill say ten men and then leave then the next events the next day will be completely different. That's what i want. Along with the ability to just walk into an area and a series of event specific group objectives appearing on my bar, Screw this talking to npcs even with Voice Overs there shouldn't be a need anymore.

Originally posted by TROLL_HARD

Started thinking about Darkfall again, as I do every 2-3 months. But I'm not happy with Aventurine's management of the game. I want a definitive answer about whether there is going to be a wipe or not prior to 2.0 and they won't cough it up.  I have a level 50 in Rift. It's pretty fun for a themepark game. But, I get bored sooner and sooner because I don't know anyone that plays it. I have a friend who went back to WoW, and I'm even thinking (just toying with the idea) of going back...but really it would only be if I couldn't get the guy to play another game. I can't see myself getting him into Darkfall now with the present state of the game and the grind for someone just starting now. I would have to re-roll, too. It could be fun.

Dont Do It Man! trust me i am in that boat, im on WoW right now, bored as hell. "there's only two things to do eat and poo eat and poop it's like i'm visiting my parents!" is the most accurate way to describe what's happening on WoW right now. Nothing but the same crap that's always been on there. So if you are looking for pve fun i wouldn't suggest it if you REALLY need the social interactions then i'd say go for it. You may just end up being bored out of your mind like I am.

Originally posted by cali59

If we define Sandbox as a game where players create content, then GW2 is a non-traditional, non-linear Themepark.  Zones have level ranges but instead of following a quest chain from A to B to C, you can do Dynamic Events in whatever order you come across them.  The game automatically mentors you down when you do lower level content so you can actually go do any event in the world of a lower level any time it's running and get a decent reward for it.  I could go into vastly more detail about the game and events and how it all works, but I'm trying to be brief.

The bottom line is that GW2 is a true MMORPG and almost completely unlike GW1 except for the lore.  It's almost completely unlike games like WoW as well.  As they say in their Manifesto Trailer, "if you love MMOs, you'll want to check out Guild Wars 2, and if you hate MMOs, you'll really want to check out Guild Wars 2."

 

No offense Cali, but I think the last thing a person who had their hopes up high for an MMORPG and had them shattered is one of those videos where the devs take turns using same old 'We will be different!' phrases like "...lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero." Those kinds of videos are just meant to get up hype without actually showing players what they should be hyped about. It is all talk (Isn't that right Bioware?). What people want to see is live gameplay action!

PVE (World boss I think? You don't need to group for a raid to fight them we are told. Anyone can join in.)

Thief gameplay (Also includes town under siege by catapults.)

Right now I'm trying to find good gameplay videos. Some of these peeps don't know how to play! There was this one video where the guy kept hinting with words like "dodge" while he was doing commentary and this one lady kept standing there taking damage.

Nothing from a major developer due out in the next two to three years is really moving far away from the theme park approach.

The one that moves the furthest from it is ArcheAge, with city building, open world, politics and more, but the leveling system is very much the same as any other theme park.

It is currently unavoidable, I suggest you look at the "endgame" features of MMOs, rather than their level progression, because the progression in every single MMO from now until at least 2015 is theme park.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ttfOuxB6Gc&feature=plcp&context=C3653752UDOEgsToPDskL4CvpYksv88r56K3AJV9nh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnVGEYGE8hs&feature=plcp&context=C301bbd3UDOEgsToPDskKH3difkgO3i36H6iGOWSj1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-healkDctCw&feature=plcp&context=C3e304b5UDOEgsToPDskIvTsN2t8pO6OzxBqHKVa_4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsUcGBL56Ng

I've been researching this game like mad crazy since i first heard about it, it's definitely getting my money when it releases because they have done an amazing job from what i've just seen so far of breaking the mold on mmo's things like quest leading, gear treadmills, GCDs all will be a thing of the past when this game hits. I simply cannot wait!

Originally posted by Quenchster

Originally posted by cali59

If we define Sandbox as a game where players create content, then GW2 is a non-traditional, non-linear Themepark.  Zones have level ranges but instead of following a quest chain from A to B to C, you can do Dynamic Events in whatever order you come across them.  The game automatically mentors you down when you do lower level content so you can actually go do any event in the world of a lower level any time it's running and get a decent reward for it.  I could go into vastly more detail about the game and events and how it all works, but I'm trying to be brief.

The bottom line is that GW2 is a true MMORPG and almost completely unlike GW1 except for the lore.  It's almost completely unlike games like WoW as well.  As they say in their Manifesto Trailer, "if you love MMOs, you'll want to check out Guild Wars 2, and if you hate MMOs, you'll really want to check out Guild Wars 2."

 

No offense Cali, but I think the last thing a person who had their hopes up high for an MMORPG and had them shattered is one of those videos where the devs take turns using same old 'We will be different!' phrases like "lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero." Those kinds of videos are just meant to get up hype without actually showing players what they should be hyped about. It is all talk (Isn't that right Bioware?). What people want to see is action!

PVE (World boss I think? You don't need to group for a raid to fight them we are told. Anyone can join in.)

Thief gameplay (Also includes town under siege by catapults.)

Right now I'm trying to find good videos. Some of these peeps don't know how to play! There was this one video where the guy kept hinting with words like "dodge" while he was doing commentary and this one lady kept standing there taking damage.

Fair enough.

Here's one of my favorite videos for just showing dodging and casting on the move.  It's one of the first videos I ever saw of the game.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TKENm1M6vP4#t=159s  Note that talking to this guy is part of the Personal Storyline.  Dynamic events in the world you don't have to speak to anyone to participate.  This is the tutorial and it throws you right into the action.

If you want a skilled player, this is a developer playing PVP.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KDCsXfg9HNY#t=32s  It might look like he's only got 10 skills, but he's actually got 25 (20 on the left side in four sets of 5 he swaps to with F1-F4, fire, water, air, earth).  Part of the problem I think with showing footage is that a lot of the features (no holy trinity, no ally targeting, skills tied to weapon) aren't going to be immediately obvious.

Here's a pretty good video about dynamic events. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lpwxr8LrZJc

Originally posted by jpnole

I am old enough to have played the first mmos but I didn't get started until 2005 with WoW. Since that time I played GW, AOC (max level), COH (40s and several alts), Rift (max level) and SWTOR (level 21). By no means am I a mmo vet like some folks on here, but I've played my share. Rewind to Rift. I bought a 6 month sub somehow thinking that it was a different game. It was like I was under a spell. After a month and a half, I hit max level, maxed out my crafting and suddenly it dawned on me that I was just going through the motions. I didn't play for most of the remaining 4 months of my sub time. Now with SWTOR, I had the same burnout at the 3 week mark. I was only level 21 but I maxed out a crafting tier and had the same realization. Fortunately, I only had 30 days of included box time so I was able to cancel today. I realized that I was just chasing that carrot on a  stick. No matter what the game, whether you are level 5, 10, 50 or max level, you are on an endless treadmill with no purpose other than to hit the next level, tier, etc.

 

I think I am finally ready to say good bye to the same tired old theme park formula and just wait for the right mmo to come out. Who knows when it will be. Due to the SWTOR beta and early access, I didn't get a chance to fully explore Skyrim so at least I have that to provide some sandbox entertainment, albeit non-mmo. I can't count the number of times I saw someone trash theme park games in favor of sandbox games on here.... now I understand why. I never played any of the pre 2005 sandbox mmos so I feel like I have missed out. Maybe Archage will be that game. Do we even know enough about TSW, Tera or GW2 to determine if they will be just the same old formula? I am no longer going to be a paying lab rat for these mad scientist theme park mmo creating devs. No more carrots!

I lurk here a great deal, because i enjoy a lot of the folks that post here.  Five minutes before i read your post, i had logged off from SWTOR and had come to the exact same conclusion. My wife talked with me a little bit about it, and i just came to realize the exact same thing. I had the same experience with Rift ( although i think it's a fine game ) and i feel the same way about Star Wars.  

I went balls to the walls on my Republic Sage and hit 50.  I did plenty of PvP and plenty of Hard Modes. I switched to Empire and began leveling my Imperial Sniper and although the story is truly outstanding and the Empire side in general just seems so much better....it wasn't enough.  I looked at my screen and said, " sweet frikkin Christmas, if i have to kill 40 more droids, i'm going to explode."  It was then i realized that i have to take these games in bits and paying a continual sub for bits is not going to happen.  

So i've resolved to rotate my games in one month incriments.  I love the games but i just can't take them in large chunks of time anymore.  I am very much looking forward to GW2 as i have been a fan of the original for a very long time and am looking forward to D3. Skyrim will be seeing lots of action as well, but i think i've bought my final themepark as well.  For clarification, I certainly don't hate these games at all, i just personally can't do it for long anymore.  I am looking forward to seeing what Bioware has in store for TOR in the coming months and will enjoy them as i choose.  For those sticking with it and fighting the good fight so to speak, keep it going, and more importantly, have fun! ^ .^

Gw2 or archer age...

Originally posted by DexterMMO

Gw2 or archer age...

or even dominous i think archage will be a bigger game at release tho ..  def give it a try : )

As skymourne suggest perhaps solution to themepark syndrom (which i have as well, yes, welcoming myself to the club) really is to rotate the games by months (have say 3 or 4 of them). But that brings one major issue and that is that your guild/corp/whatever will simply outlevel you, outgear you etc... That is major issue if you don't want to spend most of your time seeking new friends (and that's not why most play these games)...

I resubbed EVE before xmas after playing with that idea for like a month (but really constantly considering it). But people i knew are who knows where. I still think one slim chance for a bit different game is EVE but it can turn into too much routine as well.

I too will keep waiting for savior. Tera? Probably no. Firefall looks promising. At least it's a bit different theme (park). Oh World of Tanks is good. It's free, shoot this, move there, explode here. Has it's minuses but it's free and you can play like 2-3 maps (less than hour) just to relax.

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by TROLL_HARD

Started thinking about Darkfall again, as I do every 2-3 months. But I'm not happy with Aventurine's management of the game. I want a definitive answer about whether there is going to be a wipe or not prior to 2.0 and they won't cough it up.  I have a level 50 in Rift. It's pretty fun for a themepark game. But, I get bored sooner and sooner because I don't know anyone that plays it. I have a friend who went back to WoW, and I'm even thinking (just toying with the idea) of going back...but really it would only be if I couldn't get the guy to play another game. I can't see myself getting him into Darkfall now with the present state of the game and the grind for someone just starting now. I would have to re-roll, too. It could be fun.

Dont Do It Man! trust me i am in that boat, im on WoW right now, bored as hell. "there's only two things to do eat and poo eat and poop it's like i'm visiting my parents!" is the most accurate way to describe what's happening on WoW right now. Nothing but the same crap that's always been on there. So if you are looking for pve fun i wouldn't suggest it if you REALLY need the social interactions then i'd say go for it. You may just end up being bored out of your mind like I am.

Thanks for the warning. I totally hear you.

I will try to get my friend to roll Darkfall (with the caveat I mentioned above). Otherwise, I am split between Rift and Darkfall -- which are 2 totally different experiences in my opinion.

Darkfall is a great game that needs very little done to it to make it amazing... sadly the DEVs are morons and keep saying the same thing every week.

Instead of fixing Darkfall they are working on what they call Darkfall 2.0 but we dont know when this will be out because the DEVS asy the same thing in every blog..

So its basically forced most people to leave. The NA server is still pretty active tho and might be worth giving it a go there.

Q: I'm tired of themeparks. What should I do?
A: Wait for GW2 to come out.
/boggle

Originally posted by DannyGlover

Q: I'm tired of themeparks. What should I do?
A: Wait for GW2 to come out.
/boggle

Originally posted by DannyGlover

Q: I'm tired of themeparks. What should I do?
A: Wait for GW2 to come out.
/boggle

 

The OP did specifically ask if we know enough about GW2 to know if it was the same old formula.  My response, at least, was to say that it is a themepark but it doesn't follow the same formula. 

The OP is concerned about doing the same old things in the quest for a series of carrots.  In GW2, you won't be doing the same old things, and they're deemphasizing the carrots.  Not even talking about linear questing during leveling, traditional MMOs get to the point where if you want a reward, you're locked into certain playstyles (raiding, pvp).  GW2 is about letting you do what you want to do, without being on anyone's schedule, with fun being the primary reward and whatever you want to buy with your gold/karma/glory second.

If nothing else, it's B2P so people will be able to play as much or as little as they want without worrying about trying to get their money's worth, or worry about whether or not to unsubscribe.

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Originally posted by cali59

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Originally posted by DannyGlover
Q: I'm tired of themeparks. What should I do?
A: Wait for GW2 to come out.
/boggle
 

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The OP did specifically ask if we know enough about GW2 to know if it was the same old formula.  My response, at least, was to say that it is a themepark but it doesn't follow the same formula. 
The OP is concerned about doing the same old things in the quest for a series of carrots.  In GW2, you won't be doing the same old things, and they're deemphasizing the carrots.  Not even talking about linear questing during leveling, traditional MMOs get to the point where if you want a reward, you're locked into certain playstyles (raiding, pvp).  GW2 is about letting you do what you want to do, without being on anyone's schedule, with fun being the primary reward and whatever you want to buy with your gold/karma/glory second.
If nothing else, it's B2P so people will be able to play as much or as little as they want without worrying about trying to get their money's worth, or worry about whether or not to unsubscribe.

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