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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Guild Wars 2: WTF no Raids

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256 posts found
  Eir_S

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4703

GW2 socialist.

1/15/12 7:42:16 PM#121
Originally posted by Snaylor47
Originally posted by Eir_S

Wait.  You think raids are awesome and full of content, but you have a problem with repeatable DE's?  Is there something I'm missing here?  The raids are being replaced with something different, there won't be less content, it will just be more honest and won't require you to give up your life to be a part of it.  I see no negative aspects of ANet's decision, but I'm confused by your crusade.

You're repeating content in those traditonal raids!  That's all you're doing until the next carrot comes along!

So now you're telling me that there is no difference between rebeatable DE and raids?

 

So there scaleable raids?

Oh there's a world of difference.  Raids never change, but depending on who is in an area or where, different stages of massive DE chains could be taking place, or nothing at all.  But the fact that you hang onto the traditional ones because they offer prettier trinkets is what gets me.  Or .. doesn't get me.  I'm still confused.  I would never prefer that a company strung me along like they did in WoW just to drain money out of my pocket while I waited another week for the drop I wanted, as opposed to a company whose primary goal is to make sure I have fun, regardless if I win anything or not.

I guess I just don't see raids as a positive thing, and in the game I'm looking forward to, they're replacing them with something that isn't an exercise in frustration.  Good news for me, but sorry about your luck.  However, the way things are changing ever so slowly, there should be plenty of games that adhere to the old ways for a while.

  User Deleted
1/15/12 7:43:26 PM#122
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by Snaylor47
Originally posted by RizelStar

The force is abit too strong for this one guys, might want to let time tell itself lol.

Arguing back in forth won't solve or change any ones mind mainly when unfortunately one hasn't researched he game.

Remember may the common sense be with you and take care.

 

I actually have a (Albit fading now) interest in this game since I heard about its conception back in 06.

 

 

Yes because since I never once looked at gameplay videos or read articals or watched ANets manifesto.

Come on now.

 

 

  Enok4Twunni

Novice Member

Joined: 5/30/11
Posts: 214

1/15/12 7:44:13 PM#123
Originally posted by Snaylor47
Originally posted by IPolygon
Originally posted by Snaylor47

Can't be the only one who see this as a negative can I?

 

At the end of the day no raids= Less content to do imo.

Oh, but you have raids. Try to defeat the hard dynamic events and come back.

Those arn't raids.

 

That would be like calling Heroics in WoW raids.

 

And you kind of missed my point. No raids=Less content.

Because I'm bored I'll respond to this. A raid doesn't have to have raid frames to be a raid, nor does it have to take place in a different zone or instance. Less content? Really dude? Have you not been keeping up with any of the posts from the devs about how many dynamic events there are? Have you not read about how the dungeons work? Story mode and then a three branch explorable mode. Have you not watched the videos of the boss fights? A raid to me is the amount of people it takes to down these hard bosses (dynamic events). Your point is moot about there being less content because there isn't an option to create "raid" groups or go into an instance where the you fight bosses over and over for countless hours and keep wiping because your healers can't seem to understand that standing in fire is bad, doesn't mean there aren't raids. Please do a little research before you make statements like this. This game is going to have more valuable content than WoW in my opinion. Can I state that as fact? No. I played WoW for six years and I know that it's a bunch of useless quests and the system pretty much caters to those that are hardcore raiders or want to play competitive pvp. I for one am glad that the whole "raid" thing is going bye bye in GW 2. Raids in WoW are some of the most over rated pieces of content I've ever done. Not only that, I've seen a lot of people get elitist type attitudes because they can down a boss which everyone could if they had a good guild as well. Sadly, most guilds are more focused on dps meters and gear scores than the people at the keyboards themselves. I'm sick of elite type thinking in games and the real world. I quit raiding because of the amount of bs people throw at others that can't mash buttons as well as them. I hate how people scoff at those that may be a little under geared and act like they really did something amazing to down the Lich King in Heroic, when really, it takes a whole team and an understanding of the fight. Once you learn the boss mechanics, it's no challenge. The trash pulls just waste everyone's time. Gear becomes the goal, not fun. I'm glad that kind of raiding is gone from this game. I prefer fighting bosses with everyone around me in a raid style where everyone is rewarded according to their contribution and you don't have people getting kicked because their dps was too low. Good riddance stupidity, hello ingenuity.

  DJJazzy

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/11
Posts: 2074

1/15/12 7:46:11 PM#124

2006? Back to the Future?

Anyway, a game can't be for everyone. Some people want certain things in their mmos, such as raiding, that GW2 won't have. If that's what you want then you might not like this game. Not use putting a square into a round hole.

  User Deleted
1/15/12 7:46:54 PM#125
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Snaylor47
Originally posted by Eir_S

Wait.  You think raids are awesome and full of content, but you have a problem with repeatable DE's?  Is there something I'm missing here?  The raids are being replaced with something different, there won't be less content, it will just be more honest and won't require you to give up your life to be a part of it.  I see no negative aspects of ANet's decision, but I'm confused by your crusade.

You're repeating content in those traditonal raids!  That's all you're doing until the next carrot comes along!

So now you're telling me that there is no difference between rebeatable DE and raids?

 

So there scaleable raids?

Oh there's a world of difference.  Raids never change, but depending on who is in an area or where, different stages of massive DE chains could be taking place, or nothing at all.  But the fact that you hang onto the traditional ones because they offer prettier trinkets is what gets me.  Or .. doesn't get me.  I'm still confused.  I would never prefer that a company strung me along like they did in WoW just to drain money out of my pocket while I waited another week for the drop I wanted, as opposed to a company whose primary goal is to make sure I have fun, regardless if I win anything or not.

I guess I just don't see raids as a positive thing, and in the game I'm looking forward to, they're replacing them with something that isn't an exercise in frustration.  Good news for me, but sorry about your luck.  However, the way things are changing ever so slowly, there should be plenty of games that adhere to the old ways for a while.

Its very difficult to engage in a conversation with you about this game because you seem to think that everything that ANet has on paper actually works.

You remind me of Ron Paul supporters.

 

  RizelStar

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

1/15/12 7:47:57 PM#126
Originally posted by DJJazzy

2006? Back to the Future?

Anyway, a game can't be for everyone. Some people want certain things in their mmos, such as raiding, that GW2 won't have. If that's what you want then you might not like this game. Not use putting a square into a round hole.

+1

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  Msenge

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/12
Posts: 90

1/15/12 7:49:49 PM#127
Originally posted by Snaylor47
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by Snaylor47
Originally posted by RizelStar

The force is abit too strong for this one guys, might want to let time tell itself lol.

Arguing back in forth won't solve or change any ones mind mainly when unfortunately one hasn't researched he game.

Remember may the common sense be with you and take care.

 

I actually have a (Albit fading now) interest in this game since I heard about its conception back in 06.

 

 

Yes because since I never once looked at gameplay videos or read articals or watched ANets manifesto.

Come on now.

 

 

You're missing the point that in '06 ANet released GW: Factions, GW: Nightfall, and began working on a 4th installment called GW: Utopia.  GW2 wasn't event a gleam in their eyes in '06.  If you wanted to seem as if you were at all knowledgeable on the topic you would have written, "back in '07."

  User Deleted
1/15/12 7:50:45 PM#128
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by DJJazzy

2006? Back to the Future?

Anyway, a game can't be for everyone. Some people want certain things in their mmos, such as raiding, that GW2 won't have. If that's what you want then you might not like this game. Not use putting a square into a round hole.

+1

I would agree if it wasn't for the fact that I am looking forward to the game.

 

My interest may pick up again once I get done with TOR and from the looks of it that won't be to long.

 

But I have ot say if this is what I can expect from the GW2 community come launch, then I am not so sure that I would like ot be apart of it.

 

Archeage is looking pretty nice right about now.

  Enok4Twunni

Novice Member

Joined: 5/30/11
Posts: 214

1/15/12 7:51:06 PM#129
Originally posted by Snaylor47
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by Snaylor47
Originally posted by RizelStar

The force is abit too strong for this one guys, might want to let time tell itself lol.

Arguing back in forth won't solve or change any ones mind mainly when unfortunately one hasn't researched he game.

Remember may the common sense be with you and take care.

 

I actually have a (Albit fading now) interest in this game since I heard about its conception back in 06.

 

 

Yes because since I never once looked at gameplay videos or read articals or watched ANets manifesto.

Come on now.

 

 

Your posts suggest you haven't watched enough. I could post some good links if you need, but it seems you don't really pay attention and are just here to troll. I'm not sure what to think about you dude. You might wanna use spell check as well. The WoW model is boring and I'm a hardcore gamer. Like I mentioned before, WoW type raids cater to elite types that think stats equal skill. I prefer skilled play over big stats, thanks to ANet for trying to deliver on that.

  Eir_S

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4703

GW2 socialist.

1/15/12 7:51:34 PM#130
Originally posted by enoch420
Raids in WoW are some of the most over rated pieces of content I've ever done.

That's what I'm saying.  They're big dungeons, but people only think of them as massive content because it takes so long to actually beat them because of -

A.) The week long lockouts

B.) Getting a group together

C.) Learning all the patterns that will save you a thousand wipes per night.

That's not content.  What that is, is someone holding a virtual ring of +10 No Life in front of you for months until the next patch is complete.  Raids are only as big as the space they take up, time does not factor into how valuable it is because it's the devs who make them so hard that you have to keep coming back.  I'm through being suckered by these shady mechanics.  Traditional raids aren't that big a deal.

  User Deleted
1/15/12 7:52:08 PM#131
Originally posted by Msenge
Originally posted by Snaylor47
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by Snaylor47
Originally posted by RizelStar

The force is abit too strong for this one guys, might want to let time tell itself lol.

Arguing back in forth won't solve or change any ones mind mainly when unfortunately one hasn't researched he game.

Remember may the common sense be with you and take care.

 

I actually have a (Albit fading now) interest in this game since I heard about its conception back in 06.

 

 

Yes because since I never once looked at gameplay videos or read articals or watched ANets manifesto.

Come on now.

 

 

You're missing the point that in '06 ANet released GW: Factions, GW: Nightfall, and began working on a 4th installment called GW: Utopia.  GW2 wasn't event a gleam in their eyes in '06.  If you wanted to seem as if you were at all knowledgeable on the topic you would have written, "back in '07."

The exact year in which I veiwed the GW2 site eludes me all I know was that it was before they released any classes.

  DJJazzy

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/11
Posts: 2074

1/15/12 7:53:13 PM#132
Originally posted by Snaylor47
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by DJJazzy

2006? Back to the Future?

Anyway, a game can't be for everyone. Some people want certain things in their mmos, such as raiding, that GW2 won't have. If that's what you want then you might not like this game. Not use putting a square into a round hole.

+1

I would agree if it wasn't for the fact that I am looking forward to the game.

 

 

Well that's fine but don't look at the game at what it isn't. This goes for everyone with all games. Just like it irritates me on the SWTOR forums (and here to be honest) about people complaining about what that game isn't. I take it for what it is. Enjoy the game and what it promises for that, not for what you wish it had.

  Msenge

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/12
Posts: 90

1/15/12 7:53:22 PM#133
Originally posted by Snaylor47
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Snaylor47
Originally posted by Eir_S

Wait.  You think raids are awesome and full of content, but you have a problem with repeatable DE's?  Is there something I'm missing here?  The raids are being replaced with something different, there won't be less content, it will just be more honest and won't require you to give up your life to be a part of it.  I see no negative aspects of ANet's decision, but I'm confused by your crusade.

You're repeating content in those traditonal raids!  That's all you're doing until the next carrot comes along!

So now you're telling me that there is no difference between rebeatable DE and raids?

 

So there scaleable raids?

Oh there's a world of difference.  Raids never change, but depending on who is in an area or where, different stages of massive DE chains could be taking place, or nothing at all.  But the fact that you hang onto the traditional ones because they offer prettier trinkets is what gets me.  Or .. doesn't get me.  I'm still confused.  I would never prefer that a company strung me along like they did in WoW just to drain money out of my pocket while I waited another week for the drop I wanted, as opposed to a company whose primary goal is to make sure I have fun, regardless if I win anything or not.

I guess I just don't see raids as a positive thing, and in the game I'm looking forward to, they're replacing them with something that isn't an exercise in frustration.  Good news for me, but sorry about your luck.  However, the way things are changing ever so slowly, there should be plenty of games that adhere to the old ways for a while.

Its very difficult to engage in a conversation with you about this game because you seem to think that everything that ANet has on paper actually works.

You remind me of Ron Paul supporters.

 

The thing is, a lot of the stuff ANet has been saying has been more than just stuff written on paper.  We've seen and played with their event system at demos.  A lot of the other things too.  The only thinig left to see is if people like and enjoy such things in the live game.

  Eir_S

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4703

GW2 socialist.

1/15/12 7:54:28 PM#134
Originally posted by Snaylor47

Its very difficult to engage in a conversation with you about this game because you seem to think that everything that ANet has on paper actually works.

You remind me of Ron Paul supporters.

 

Ah, you know what?  When someone mistakenly insulted you a few pages back, I was going to say something.  But you've proven yourself one rung lower by lashing out at me simply because you don't get what I'm saying.  Have at it with your week arguments defending the carrot on a stick for all I care, instead of trying to prove your point to me, you resort to petty bs.

  marinrider

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/06
Posts: 1574

1/15/12 7:55:03 PM#135
Originally posted by Snaylor47
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Snaylor47
Originally posted by Eir_S

Wait.  You think raids are awesome and full of content, but you have a problem with repeatable DE's?  Is there something I'm missing here?  The raids are being replaced with something different, there won't be less content, it will just be more honest and won't require you to give up your life to be a part of it.  I see no negative aspects of ANet's decision, but I'm confused by your crusade.

You're repeating content in those traditonal raids!  That's all you're doing until the next carrot comes along!

So now you're telling me that there is no difference between rebeatable DE and raids?

 

So there scaleable raids?

Oh there's a world of difference.  Raids never change, but depending on who is in an area or where, different stages of massive DE chains could be taking place, or nothing at all.  But the fact that you hang onto the traditional ones because they offer prettier trinkets is what gets me.  Or .. doesn't get me.  I'm still confused.  I would never prefer that a company strung me along like they did in WoW just to drain money out of my pocket while I waited another week for the drop I wanted, as opposed to a company whose primary goal is to make sure I have fun, regardless if I win anything or not.

I guess I just don't see raids as a positive thing, and in the game I'm looking forward to, they're replacing them with something that isn't an exercise in frustration.  Good news for me, but sorry about your luck.  However, the way things are changing ever so slowly, there should be plenty of games that adhere to the old ways for a while.

Its very difficult to engage in a conversation with you about this game because you seem to think that everything that ANet has on paper actually works.

You remind me of Ron Paul supporters.

 

Id rather be optomistic than pessimistic about the future.  If they you think they are doing something wrong then tell us.  So far what youve been saying doesnt really work.  there are 1600 DE's.  The likely hood you'll be be repeating them as much as you would repeat raids is slim.    If you really have such a problem with some design elements then just say out of this forum and play some other game.  I promise they WONT change it based on what you said and when it comes out without raids many of us will be happily playing without you if thats your choice.  

 

A game does not need raids to keep people playing.  Hell, raids is what makes people quit.  

  RizelStar

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

1/15/12 7:58:45 PM#136
Originally posted by enoch420
Originally posted by Snaylor47
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by Snaylor47
Originally posted by RizelStar

The force is abit too strong for this one guys, might want to let time tell itself lol.

Arguing back in forth won't solve or change any ones mind mainly when unfortunately one hasn't researched he game.

Remember may the common sense be with you and take care.

 

I actually have a (Albit fading now) interest in this game since I heard about its conception back in 06.

 

 

Yes because since I never once looked at gameplay videos or read articals or watched ANets manifesto.

Come on now.

 

 

Your posts suggest you haven't watched enough. I could post some good links if you need, but it seems you don't really pay attention and are just here to troll. I'm not sure what to think about you dude. You might wanna use spell check as well. The WoW model is boring and I'm a hardcore gamer. Like I mentioned before, WoW type raids cater to elite types that think stats equal skill. I prefer skilled play over big stats, thanks to ANet for trying to deliver on that.

enoch it honestly won't help, I have a feeling  he'll say he's seen the latest videos and that the gameplay and everything is not so different from SWTOR or WoW.

Once a person(mainly on the internet) invest so much time on talking down on one thing and good on another it's hard to admit when he/she said something that is glarring illogical or wrong it's all about those guts.

One could argue that it's expressing opinions but it'd be justifiable if it was at least reasonable.

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  Homitu

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/01/09
Posts: 2044

1/15/12 7:58:51 PM#137
Originally posted by gaeanprayer
Originally posted by Homitu
Originally posted by gaeanprayer
Originally posted by Homitu
Originally posted by gaeanprayer
Originally posted by Daddydazzle

<snippage>

<snip>

<snip> 

<snippity>

<snip>

You don't have to, I know what you are talking about. The GW2 dungeons are supposed to be comparable to GW1's, which were notoriously difficult and even today prove a challenge unless you go with the full hero team of damn near invulnerable sab/spiritway build (and even then, a bad pull = dead). My point is that doesn't mean no other part of GW1 was challenging, and likewise that in GW2 the dungeons are supposed to be particularly difficult doesn't mean the content out of them will be particularly easy, which is the assumption you're making.

I've played enough GW1 to know what to expect from the dungeons in GW2, trust me :P I've commented before on how I nearly lost a monitor to the final dungeon in GWEN when it first came out, due to my uh...frustration. I'm sure the content outside of the dungeons in GW2 will be comparatively easier, but that doesn't mean it won't take teamwork and provide enough of a challenge to give that poster, and others like him, exactly what they are looking for.

Well it's definitely comforting to know that GW has a history of difficulty.  But like you said, we really can't claim one way or the other until we play the game.  You can suspect world dynamic events will be difficult, and I can suspect they will be easy, but neither of us really know.  Then again, that's what these forum conversations are about: how we suspect the game will play and why.  (In response to the obligatory dozen "What a pointless topic" posts that fill every such thread: Are these conversations productive?  Not really.  Are they fun for many fans who are eagerly awaiting a title?  Definitely.)

As for my reasons, well they remain the same.  If Anet says the dungeons are meant to be particularly difficult relative to world DEs, then it is implied that the world DEs are "particularly easy."  No assumption necessary.   "Particularly easy" and "particularly difficult" are relative terms, comparing the difficulty of A to the difficulty of B.

And, of course, DEs are designed to be completed by a collage of random players coming together quickly who will act with minimal coordination.  They will be balanced around this assumed chaos/lack of coordination.  Compare that to structured raids, which are balanced around the assumption that everyone will be organized, gven a specific role, and have a planned out strategy--or at least will be able to develop and perfect a strategy over time.  Unless you argue that overcoming chaos on-the-fly via in-game chat communication will provide a challenge in its own right.  

I mean I suppose they could design a few DEs to be failed most of the time, since even failing a DE would progress the chain in another direction.  They could give certain DEs the complex mechanics of traditional raid bosses, causing them to absolutely slaughter any random group of players who engage in the DE, thereby requiring organized guilds to come in to take care of them.  World bosses and Notorious Monsters used to work like this in FFXI.  No random group of pugs could hope to take down the toughest NMs.  Instead the server's best guilds would be alerted; then they would race each other to swoop in and claim the mob first.  Of course, in GW2 everything would be cooperative, not competitive in that regard.  Nevertheless, we haven't heard of any such difficulty concept concerning DEs.  

  Master10K

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/18/10
Posts: 3086

 
OP  1/15/12 8:08:39 PM#138
Originally posted by DJJazzy
Originally posted by Snaylor47
*snip*

I would agree if it wasn't for the fact that I am looking forward to the game.

Well that's fine but don't look at the game at what it isn't. This goes for everyone with all games. Just like it irritates me on the SWTOR forums (and here to be honest) about people complaining about what that game isn't. I take it for what it is. Enjoy the game and what it promises for that, not for what you wish it had.

Exactly. The only people that will definitely be disappointed with Guild Wars 2, are those that fail to see the game for what it is and only look for the game they want it to be. ArenaNet haven't been dodging the issue Snaylor... they have outright said "there will be no raids, in a traditional sense in GW2". I don't see why people bitch about it on the forums, because the game won't change it's design and target audience, just to meet a demand that has been met eslewhere. The game won't lack content for it because one less raid could mean 1 more dungeon or dynamic event.

 

So those that want the traditional raids shouldn't be looking at this game in the 1st place, because doing so will only lead to disappointment and turn this forum into the SW:TOR forums at launch, from all those that wanted a good PvP game.

  Enok4Twunni

Novice Member

Joined: 5/30/11
Posts: 214

1/15/12 8:09:32 PM#139
Originally posted by marinrider
Originally posted by Snaylor47
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Snaylor47
Originally posted by Eir_S

Wait.  You think raids are awesome and full of content, but you have a problem with repeatable DE's?  Is there something I'm missing here?  The raids are being replaced with something different, there won't be less content, it will just be more honest and won't require you to give up your life to be a part of it.  I see no negative aspects of ANet's decision, but I'm confused by your crusade.

You're repeating content in those traditonal raids!  That's all you're doing until the next carrot comes along!

So now you're telling me that there is no difference between rebeatable DE and raids?

 

So there scaleable raids?

Oh there's a world of difference.  Raids never change, but depending on who is in an area or where, different stages of massive DE chains could be taking place, or nothing at all.  But the fact that you hang onto the traditional ones because they offer prettier trinkets is what gets me.  Or .. doesn't get me.  I'm still confused.  I would never prefer that a company strung me along like they did in WoW just to drain money out of my pocket while I waited another week for the drop I wanted, as opposed to a company whose primary goal is to make sure I have fun, regardless if I win anything or not.

I guess I just don't see raids as a positive thing, and in the game I'm looking forward to, they're replacing them with something that isn't an exercise in frustration.  Good news for me, but sorry about your luck.  However, the way things are changing ever so slowly, there should be plenty of games that adhere to the old ways for a while.

Its very difficult to engage in a conversation with you about this game because you seem to think that everything that ANet has on paper actually works.

You remind me of Ron Paul supporters.

 

Id rather be optomistic than pessimistic about the future.  If they you think they are doing something wrong then tell us.  So far what youve been saying doesnt really work.  there are 1600 DE's.  The likely hood you'll be be repeating them as much as you would repeat raids is slim.    If you really have such a problem with some design elements then just say out of this forum and play some other game.  I promise they WONT change it based on what you said and when it comes out without raids many of us will be happily playing without you if thats your choice.  

 

A game does not need raids to keep people playing.  Hell, raids is what makes people quit.  

Raids are why I quit WoW. Paying to be stressed out wasn't fun, especially when you had to do it over and over to get an item to drop. I support Ron Paul. ;) 

  splitcold

Novice Member

Joined: 8/27/07
Posts: 74

1/15/12 8:17:13 PM#140

I am so happy, never liked raids and I will get this game for sure.

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