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Originally posted by D0ZeR

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Originally posted by gopher65

http://www.pharaoh-productions.com/phpbb/public/index.php?sid=3925c9755b57b16f6f4c08a1f3a66ea1

Go there. That is David Allens latest company that he drove into the ground. Search for posts by "Requnix" (he is DA). On the Pharaoh-productions boards DA talks a little about horizons. Know what he has to say? He says that he was making 10000 a month and driving a porche, and that the reason his concept of HZ didn't succeed was that the people working for him weren't willing to work 20 hours a day for free. Yes that's right, he expected them to work for free (yes he actually said this).

David Allen then goes on to say that the whole problem with the MMOG industry is that companies like Blizzard actually PAY their employees, and therefore those employees are unable to work for $0 for people like David Allen.

DA is a total nutjob. I could not believe it when I read that post. He's gone over the edge into woo-woo land.

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Talk about over stating things. Yet it is ok for Bowman to make 10k a month and pay his devs way under pay scale. Isn't that asking people that work for you to work for nothing? One thing we can say for sure Allen never lied to his player base.

I wasn't going to comment on this interview only because it is just another attempt by Bowman to change how he wants to be remembered. Sad part is he left out so much about what really went down and why he had to leave Turbine (was fired).

Wonder why he never brings up the real problems with the game. Like the still going on crashes, memory leaks and ect. is it really in his best interest to keep ignoring them? I would have loved to hear a question like, "Why do you keep having so many monthly contests? Are the pops that low?". Or can you you release the real sub numbers so we can see how well or bad the game is doing? I could come up with 50 great questions that should be asked of him. Sad this will never happen.

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Actually DOZeR (why did you use capital letters in your name BTW, I strongly dislike it when people do that:P. Off topic, sorry hehe), if you actually GO TO THE LINK I PROVIDED, you can see what David Allen said for yourself.

I did not overstate it in any way. In fact, what I said is an almost verbatim quote (IE, paraphase;)) of David Allen (both from his article where he states what his salary was while he worked for AE, and from his official forums).

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Originally posted by gopher65

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Actually DOZeR (why did you use capital letters in your name BTW, I strongly dislike it when people do that:P. Off topic, sorry hehe), if you actually GO TO THE LINK I PROVIDED, you can see what David Allen said for yourself.

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After a little searching on DA's Pharoah Productions site (which was shut down in 2004, with nothing really to show for it other than some game called DEMISE), I discovered some interesting things in those forums.

Made things a lot clearer.

I read about 1/2 of the article as I could really care less as to what David Bowman did in his younger years. Yes, he was able to deliver a product (if you could call it that), but it was total crap upon release.  Yes, David Allen wasn't able to deliver anything himself, but we'll never know if it would have been good or bad. We know what D.B. has given us is BAD. Oh the game has improved a bit, but because it was so awful upon release, it couldn't get much worse. Much of the lag started to go away after 95% of the people left the game. You can't expect much lag if hardly anyone is on the servers. There are people who will still play this game, hoping for vast improvements; but the game will never be considered a success. Like Shadowbane and AC2, it will be seen as a failure from everyone who isn't playing it anymore.

I think I should do a future dev profile with David Allen just to taunt you guys

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Originally posted by Lepidus

I think I should do a future dev profile with David Allen just to taunt you guys

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I really don't think he would give you a interview. But if you think he would then go for it. I think it would be more taunting Bowman than any of us.

Be great reading though.

I was pretty much commenting on how this debate comes up every time we breath the word Horizons.

That said, you are correct, it would be interesting reading and in the end, it provides balanced coverage. I shall look into it.

UPDATE: ...and there we go. It is arranged. Check back in the coming weeks for David Allen's turn.

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Originally posted by Lepidus

I was pretty much commenting on how this debate comes up every time we breath the word Horizons.

That said, you are correct, it would be interesting reading and in the end, it provides balanced coverage. I shall look into it.

UPDATE: ...and there we go. It is arranged. Check back in the coming weeks for David Allen's turn.

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Lepidus you just went up a lot in my book of respect.

Great present you gave me on my 51st Birthday.

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Originally posted by Aldaron

Speaking of Horizons...Who was that original idea fellow. The one that created the whole schmill of the game.

The one that they backstabbed, overthrew, then tore out about every page of his idea's and created this debauchery?

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David Allen is the Gentleman that you are looking for.  You can find more information and links to his other projects here:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Allen_(game_designer)

I do agree that Horizons is a love/hate relationship..  at least you can just pop some corn sit back and read all the posts from Fanboys and FanHaters of the game.  =)

Good job Dana. I'm glad that you are willing to do the right thing and show the "other" side of the Horizons story.

BTW for all those reading these forums, please understand that there isnt much DA is going to say that we dont already know. Seriously. The depths of the AE soap opera are so immersive that most of the followers of the tradgedy over hte last year know more about every little detail than some of the key players =). Hell I've read the court docs/transcripts so many times going over all of the stuff I concidered interesting that I doubt even DB is aware of some of the things that are in there.

So in short, dont expect Lepi to post a sharp critique of DB and crew. More specifically, and quite remarkably infact concidering DA has stated he's not intrested in developing anymore period, I expect we will get the details of how DA saw his role in building AE and what pitfalls and accomplishments he encountered along the way.

As a final note, we all know right now the HZ fan-patrol we be in bashing DA and calling his story BS etc, just like most of the people who have read and studied what happened with AE/Horizons point out the "inconsistancies" of DBs "interviews". Really this DA interview will resolve nothing but.. I really am glad that Lepi is at least going the extra mile to provide a second opinion of the hieghts and depths of the tradgedy that is Artifact Entertainment.

Accuse Lepi of being somewhat one sided, yes we've all seen numerous praises given to HZ, but all I really was ever concerned about is that he truely believed and published DBs ficticious numbers and PR twist as fact. I think Lepi himself might be surprised at some of the answers he gets.

Cheers all

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Originally posted by SLyxsith

Hell I've read the court docs/transcripts so many times going over all of the stuff I concidered interesting that I doubt even DB is aware of some of the things that are in there.

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any idea of where one might find those documents?

Actually, I spoke to David Allen for quite a while the other day. Basically, neither he nor I, see any point in restating the whole drama. We all know both side's opinions - there is no news there and nothing has happened to change that.

That said, David will be examining something we both found a lot more interesting. The cult surrounding "old Horizons". He's going to write a guest article that examines the old game and why he thinks it has endured in the minds of so many.

I believe this will be much more interesting than restating a chapter in that tired drama.

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Originally posted by Lepidus

That said, David will be examining something we both found a lot more interesting. The cult surrounding "old Horizons". He's going to write a guest article that examines the old game and why he thinks it has endured in the minds of so many.

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Originally posted by Lepidus

Actually, I spoke to David Allen for quite a while the other day. Basically, neither he nor I, see any point in restating the whole drama. We all know both side's opinions - there is no news there and nothing has happened to change that.

That said, David will be examining something we both found a lot more interesting. The cult surrounding "old Horizons". He's going to write a guest article that examines the old game and why he thinks it has endured in the minds of so many.

I believe this will be much more interesting than restating a chapter in that tired drama.

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I think that will be a great read. I play Horizons also and even with the stigma attached to it, the game itself has a certain magic within it. Be it the ghost of David Allen or his blood sweat and tears that went into the game, the game is truly unique and special. I can't wait to read his thoughts surrounding it as I wasn't around for the soap opera. All I have to go by is disgruntled former players and their venom and avarice clouds their judgement of even the most innane occurance: visions of David Bowman as Satan and David Allen as a winged cherub come to mind.

EDIT:spelling

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Originally posted by Lepidus
That said, David will be examining something we both found a lot more interesting. The cult surrounding "old Horizons". He's going to write a guest article that examines the old game and why he thinks it has endured in the minds of so many.

I believe this will be much more interesting than restating a chapter in that tired drama.

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I think this is a wonderful idea, and I look forward to reading the article.

david allen says the company was stolen from him, what he forgets to say is that all the investors said they'd close their coffins if he wont quit...That was from one of the original devs...

He was just THAT kind of difficult artist personality...he wasn't ready for compromises and demanded too much from the team and was extremely moody and would scrap a half ready code just out of a whim...there was long writing from ex employee of his...i'll see if i can find a link...

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Originally posted by kishe

david allen says the company was stolen from him, what he forgets to say is that all the investors said they'd close their coffins if he wont quit...That was from one of the original devs...

He was just THAT kind of difficult artist personality...he wasn't ready for compromises and demanded too much from the team and was extremely moody and would scrap a half ready code just out of a whim...there was long writing from ex employee of his...i'll see if i can find a link...

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