It needs Guild Wars 2.

And in a "not too far" future....a "Skyrim online" kind of game.

resurrection

I have to smirk at these claims that Guild Wars 2 will be the 'savior'.  I made fun of this claim before in another thread and got shot down because GW2 proponents said 'nobody was saying it was the savior'.   And yet here in this thread I see proof AGAIN, that people think GW2 will rescue the MMO Industry.  

It won't. Not even close. Just a further iteration of the genre.

Originally posted by Dredphyre

I have to smirk at these claims that Guild Wars 2 will be the 'savior'.  I made fun of this claim before in another thread and got shot down because GW2 proponents said 'nobody was saying it was the savior'.   And yet here in this thread I see proof AGAIN, that people think GW2 will rescue the MMO Industry.  

It won't. Not even close. Just a further iteration of the genre.

it may not "save the genre", but it's already changed what I am willing to accept out of an MMO. It's why I didn't bother with Rift or SWTOR. I'm just not interested in them. They could be great games, but they're not the game I want to play.  I want to play a game with a virtual changing world.  I want to feel like my actions are having an impact on the structure of the world, not just completing a quest. I want to have other people around, and not regret that they are there.  I want to play solo while working as a part of a team. 

It's not the MMO savior, it's just leading in the direction that I want MY mmo's to go.

And to the OP - the MMO genre needs better hardware and better internet speeds for all so developers don't have to keep cutting back on what they can allow the games to do. I want a computer that can draw 100 people with full high detail, and an internet connection that will tell my computer exactly what they are all doing within .01 of a second.

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Originally posted by Dredphyre
I have to smirk at these claims that Guild Wars 2 will be the 'savior'.

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I want an MMO that's not "Oh gotta get to endgame asap cause there aint s**t till then" type. My main problem with MMO's is they focus on endgame and nothing else.

Originally posted by Lexin

I want an MMO that's not "Oh gotta get to endgame asap cause there aint s**t till then" type. My main problem with MMO's is they focus on endgame and nothing else.

I agree with this. My fondest memories in WoW and Final Fantasy XI were the leveling with friends, and exploring new zones. In fact, it wasn't UNTIL I got to endgame that I started to hate the game.

Originally posted by Dredphyre

I have to smirk at these claims that Guild Wars 2 will be the 'savior'.  I made fun of this claim before in another thread and got shot down because GW2 proponents said 'nobody was saying it was the savior'.   And yet here in this thread I see proof AGAIN, that people think GW2 will rescue the MMO Industry.  

It won't. Not even close. Just a further iteration of the genre.

It wont be the saviour, but its a nudge in the right direction.  A trippleA mmo that isn't a wow clone and is nudging the genre forwards in new ways, a themepark evolved if you will.  (I feel similar about TSW too, thats trying to do a different sort of themepark also)

Hope both games work out, for having big budgets yet daring to take the risk to be somewhat different to the norm

Rarther have those 2 than another 2 rifts

I want a long levelling curve, but not with a long grind to get there.

If I get a very nive drop at level 10, then I want that drop to be useful to be for some time (real time), not to be an item that will be replaced by a green in 45 minutes.

I also want side things to do along the way, like battlegrounds and keep takes in DAoC or collections in EQ2. In fact DAoC and EQ2 have been my favourite games so far, possibly because it's taken me alot longer than 2 days to reach cap!

Originally posted by Zzad

It needs Guild Wars 2.

And in a "not too far" future....a "Skyrim online" kind of game.

It needs 2 games I definitely wouldnt want to play ? Oh well...

I would love to see MMO designers somehow incorporate "time" into MMOs. What do I mean ? I mean as things happen events ( and i don't mean static updates X times a year ) I mean a world that is based on dynamic / war torn  environment that constantly evolves. Borders change, towns change, NPCs change locations, quests move around, dungeons change ( collapsing from war etc ). IN the end if we are killing mobs there will be rewards, I just think the static model of here is my world go see it is a bit old and limited. I would love to see "ohh just look up that quest on X site" completely go away and the ever changing world is what you deal with daily... We need to get off the dumb/boring model of "ohh i want to go to this dungeon to get this great new <insert oober item here> for my <insert class here>. 

RIFTs invasions come close to this, but they only change the world for an instant and then they are gone. What if they actually leveled towns and took over things and had to be really beaten back ( because some resource was there and it was desireable to do so ). To make it more interesting, there would have be a VERY compelling reason to defend cities / towns to get people to participate ( it has to be more than loot ).

I believe this is the only answer to longevity in MMOs given the increasing cost of putting out content, general world shrinknig that is happening ( i dont mean just KM^2 but # cities, # towns, #contients  etc ) they seem to be getting smaller every year.

Themeparks try to combat this problem with a grind at end game for gear and then they crank out new content as frequent as they can ( never frequent enough ).Sandboxes combat this by making the world itself a playground, where players interact with it on a more "rudimentary and building blocks level" which can be like work for some/many.

I think you can have both sandboxy and themepark benefits in a world that actually changes over time that the content is developed like this from the get go.. 

Now another slice, how do we make the player factions impact the world. Territory control and change is one for sure, but I would like to see more than that... i would like to see player actions actually impact that factions opinion of YOUR faction and have the needle move... even so much that it could switch sides. ( not just grinding faction, but things like Vanguard diplomacy actually helping one side or the other ) things like that.

MMO releases of the recent past seem to suggest that "turning up the volume" makes the same old stuff better, it doesn't.

we need to change the damn channel.

Another option that is an alternative - player made content.. I would love to see devleopers provide tools and governance ( of some sort ) where players can build content and tell stories within these games ourselves.. If you look at the NWN modding community, it is truly amazing some of the stuff that was done.. ( neverwinter will have this and STO Does although never saw STO Foundry ).

Just some ideas, but in the end the static here is my next best MMO is not working.. we end up splitting hairs becuase in the end its all really one game we have been playing since 2004.

More armchair designers and futurists. Definitely more armchair designers and futurists.

Originally posted by lizardbones

More armchair designers and futurists. Definitely more armchair designers and futurists.

Indeed we must as it seems most MMO developers can't design around the same model for some reason.

Originally posted by Dredphyre

I have to smirk at these claims that Guild Wars 2 will be the 'savior'.  I made fun of this claim before in another thread and got shot down because GW2 proponents said 'nobody was saying it was the savior'.   And yet here in this thread I see proof AGAIN, that people think GW2 will rescue the MMO Industry.  

It won't. Not even close. Just a further iteration of the genre.

Looking at individual features of GW2 is the wrong way to do it.  I find myself looking more and more at the overall vision behind it.  I truly believe that ArenaNet is looking at every aspect of the MMO genre and trying to fix the problems and make the best game they can, not just try to make what came before better.

They have real goals like to make their open world a truly cooperative experience and to eliminate all the barriers to socializing.  Not just to team up with strangers for one thing just to scatter afterwards, but to make people literally want to see other players.  They've even seen it in playtesting where groups of 5-10 people will start following each other around and start talking, even people who only intended to play solo, simply because there's absolutely no reason not to.

Compared to the isolating nature of the traditional quest model, to me this is a huge huge deal.  It's might not be so obviously radical as some of the other suggestions in this thread (detective mmo, or no combat) but just the fact that they're trying to change how players fundamentally view other players is an commendable goal that I very much hope they succeed at.

I'm going to try to cut this short here, but I do want to add that there's clearly other goals as well (single player RPG quality personal story, more active combat, e-sport quality PVP).  Add to that an incredible amount of polish (iterate everything for weeks, then have whole company play it, get feedback, iterate more), and the B2P model and you definitely have a recipe for an MMO that people are going to be excited about.

Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of other games coming out that are also doing exciting things.  And with B2P we'll definitely be able to sample them as well.  My opinion is that GW2 will be the most complete package of what's coming out.  I don't think it's the end all be all game.  Instead of saying that it's the savior of the MMO genre, how about instead we say that hopefully it's the herald of a new era.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Xstyles

Originally posted by GPrestige

TLDR: What I'm genuinely curious about is if there is anything MMO developers can do that will actually satisfy the MMO playerbase? Or have people become so picky that we will never see a genuine MMO success again? Why do you think this is the case?

They need to stop remaking everything. Everytime I see an new mmorpg on youtube, I wouldn't know which one it is. They all look the freakin same and all have the same stupid system.

A succesful mmo would remove the stupid busy work and focus on the fun side of gaming. There's nothing more depressing than sitting behind the screen doing a stupid quest such as "kill 10 zombies" or  "collect 8 bear claws". The end game should begin at low level or at level 1 even. Initiate a torturial and let the fun begin immediatly. There's no need for 30 levels if they are achieved by brainless questing anyway. Make it 10 levels that are hard to reach instead and let the players focus on the gaming.

 

And for christ sake invent an original interface!!

just creating a AAA MMO title that doesnt require killing things as the primary way to interact would be such a radical shift I think we would have real earthquakes

I think you misunterstood :) I do enjoy killing things, but it should be creatures that are hard to kill and offer a bigger reward, rather than hunting down 12 rabbits for 1 silver and 15 xp.. I do not enjoy doing 500+ braindead quests before I can start playing the game. I WOULD, however, enjoy doing a quest that takes me on a journey, makes it hard and rewards me when it's over.

I leveled 6 classes in WoW. I leveled a character to 45 in Aion, I leveled a character to 30 in DCUO. Leveling is a stupid concept. It's not fun, it's not entertaining.. it's pointless. We've all done it and I seriously doubt that any of your guys are having fun, jumping on your chair while doing it in any game.

Why go through all that trouble creating quests, when the whole idea in the game is to reach max level before the game actually starts? Why not just skip the silly quest system and get right to the action like they do in Marvel Hero Squad Online. A kids game got the idea, now it's time for someone to follow it up by creating a serious game that takes us right into the action right away.

Thats easy. less Craptivisions, less EA's and More CCP, more Indie. More meaningful choice. Less RMT. And finally take a break from dragons and elves and shit.

I just want to blow off some steam regarding my week in WoW. It occurred to me early on that the concept of having minute level restrictions on items was overly silly and demotivating. To level up to eat a cookie, to level up again to use some gloves, a kind of restriction that made no sense at all.

Originally posted by allegria

I would love to see MMO designers somehow incorporate "time" into MMOs. What do I mean ? I mean as things happen events ( and i don't mean static updates X times a year ) I mean a world that is based on dynamic / war torn  environment that constantly evolves. Borders change, towns change, NPCs change locations, quests move around, dungeons change ( collapsing from war etc ). IN the end if we are killing mobs there will be rewards, I just think the static model of here is my world go see it is a bit old and limited. I would love to see "ohh just look up that quest on X site" completely go away and the ever changing world is what you deal with daily... We need to get off the dumb/boring model of "ohh i want to go to this dungeon to get this great new for my . 

RIFTs invasions come close to this, but they only change the world for an instant and then they are gone. What if they actually leveled towns and took over things and had to be really beaten back ( because some resource was there and it was desireable to do so ). To make it more interesting, there would have be a VERY compelling reason to defend cities / towns to get people to participate ( it has to be more than loot ).

I believe this is the only answer to longevity in MMOs given the increasing cost of putting out content, general world shrinknig that is happening ( i dont mean just KM^2 but # cities, # towns, #contients  etc ) they seem to be getting smaller every year.

Themeparks try to combat this problem with a grind at end game for gear and then they crank out new content as frequent as they can ( never frequent enough ).Sandboxes combat this by making the world itself a playground, where players interact with it on a more "rudimentary and building blocks level" which can be like work for some/many.

I think you can have both sandboxy and themepark benefits in a world that actually changes over time that the content is developed like this from the get go.. 

Now another slice, how do we make the player factions impact the world. Territory control and change is one for sure, but I would like to see more than that... i would like to see player actions actually impact that factions opinion of YOUR faction and have the needle move... even so much that it could switch sides. ( not just grinding faction, but things like Vanguard diplomacy actually helping one side or the other ) things like that.

MMO releases of the recent past seem to suggest that "turning up the volume" makes the same old stuff better, it doesn't.

we need to change the damn channel.

Another option that is an alternative - player made content.. I would love to see devleopers provide tools and governance ( of some sort ) where players can build content and tell stories within these games ourselves.. If you look at the NWN modding community, it is truly amazing some of the stuff that was done.. ( neverwinter will have this and STO Does although never saw STO Foundry ).

Just some ideas, but in the end the static here is my next best MMO is not working.. we end up splitting hairs becuase in the end its all really one game we have been playing since 2004.

I agree. A dynamic, evolving world which brings uncertainty and adventure back in the genre is what we need.

Originally posted by Gamer54321

I just want to blow off some steam regarding my week in WoW. It occurred to me early on that the concept of having minute level restrictions on items was overly silly and demotivating. To level up to eat a cookie, to level up again to use some gloves, a kind of restriction that made no sense at all.

If you take that away you need to take away the entire level mechanics as well. It is not actually such big thing as most MMO players seems to think, there are tons of good P&P RPGs without levels with interesting mechanicsm to simulate that the characters becomes more experienced as you play.

But yeah, level restrictions on items make little sense but neither does the fact that you easily can kill huge monsters in a low level area but not even a goblin in a high level area if you yourself is mid level. When you are high level you can survive falling a long bit while at low level you die after a small fall, makes no sense either.

Leveling mechanics were originally created by Gygax for the tabletop "Chainmal" as a fast and easy way to handle character development. It was not meant to be realistic, just fast and easy since you had several characters each there.

In a MMO you have to live with how that are but it is sad that the only choices are a watered down version of AD&D and the so called skill based system most sandboxes uses, it is not logical aither.

MMOs need diversity, we need games that try out new mechanics or at least steal them from pen and paper and other computer genres so not all games feels just the same because when they do a lot more people get burnt out on them fast.

@Loke666

"(...) but neither does the fact that you can (...)"

I am thinking about 'The Chewbacca defence' here :D