It's not just SWG's crafting I miss. I miss their housing. I miss being able to decorate. I really miss being able to prospect for mats, plop down factories, harvesters,  vendors, and manipulating the pet food market to make millions!

And now, my Star Wars fix has to be gotten through  SWTOR, where the Heads Up Display and User Interface are so...barbarically primitive I can't play the game, and your crafting system made me throw up my hands in disgust as well. ./cry

Sony, you have failed me. I'm never ever buying another one of your products as long as I live if i can possibly help it.

Bioware, I hear you are fixing the UI. I'll keep my ears and eyes open and once I'm able to manipulate HUD/UI elements, I'll  be back to try.  Your crafting system, alas; pretty bad.  Really really bad for crafters who came from SWG . I realize that there is no fix for it ever in the future and that your tediously simple and hideous WoW (Rift, LOTRO, 'insert MMO name here") clone system of crafting will never change. Oh, wait, there is a difference, now I can PAY to send my crew to do it! Oh, yay! (not). I'm not even going to bring up the depths of my disbelief and despair over the Galactic Trade Market. Talk about a bad design. Did you listen to any of the feedback from the players during beta?

Rest in peace, Star Wars Galaxies, may the Valar guide and protect you  (I know, I know, I'm mixing metaphors here - but my midichlorian count is a bit low today).

Sony has shut down the SWG game service but still owns all rights to the game and its code. I doubt they have ever officially allowed the creation or use of the Emulator Project. 

And on another note: SWG Emu is still not working as it would need to in order to be a replacement for SWG.This is simply because the main thing that set SWG apart from each and every MMO in history, the crafting does not work correctly. You can't use harvesters and you can't build houses or factories in the world. Without these two you can also play EQ 2 instead of SWG emu. 

But maybe now that SWG is dead, Sony will make it open source. I do doubt it but it would be great.

Back to topic:

The more I play SWTOR the more I come to the conclusion that this game is no MMORPG but rather something like good old Guild Wars was. Its so split into instances and small tubelevels with (admittedly nicely drawn) cardboard backgrounds of fake mountains that you only ever see other people in the Space station (in Guildwars this would have been the cities) or in dungeons which of course are instanced again.

If you grow tired of your characterclass or class story you inevitably grow tired of the game. There is simply nothing to do apart from leveling your character and equipping him. In WoW this worked pretty good though so I do think this game will entertain quite some people but the longer I play it the larger my urge grows for freedom, fresh air and open spaces ;)

I am really disappointed that someone from SoE didn't leak the code...  It would have made everyone so happy.

What SOE do or not do with the old SWG code is not for them to decide, the rights to the IP belong to LucsArts, and they will NEVER allow it to be used without royalty payments (probably quite expensive ones).

When LucasArts pulled their licence, SOE probably had to burn all the servers and mind-wipe the programmers who worked on the game :)

You can bet your life that if that code ever "leaks" into the public domain, SOE will be hit with a massive lawsuit by LA.

I miss SWG. TO me hands down was one of the best games even after the NGE. Cant find any game like it anywhere. The crafting, the exploration, the ........ everything was good. I miss SWG so bad and pist at LA/SOE. Could have atleast made it a F2P with sub options. For 8 years, i ahve tried so many MMO's from WOW, EQ2, EQ, EVE, L2, DDO, LOTRO, RIFT, and even TOR and they dont even come close to the fun and enjoyment i had with SWG.

Just a shame when they started closing servers and my server got shut down. Hell i was one of the first architects on my server. Many of the starting cities had my structures. Ment a lot. Now its all gone :/

1: Crafting. Swtor is based on luck in reverse engineering. There is no way to tell if your first attempt will give you a schem or your 20th attempt. If it's your 20th attempt, that means you waste lots of resources. Worse, there is also no way to boost your re chance. That was way different in swg where you could improve your success chance. Other then that, if you want to craft in swtor while you lvl up, it will cost you a lot of money because of crew missions costing a lot and then at top lvl... yeah I allready hear you need to pvp for the best gear in stead of craft. And that gear (judging by the fact what bioware has done so far) really looks bad. So as a jedi knight you can choose between a hooded cloak, another hooded cloak and yet the 3rd hooded cloak. Where is my jedi knight robe I liked in swg? Very little variation. And now that the servers are down, they release new content, a new flashpoint based on (cough cough) rakghouls. Sorry but thats not something I look forward to.

2: Space. So I am doing space on my toons each day to get some xp boost as well as credits however it's single player only, you only have limited movement. Otherwise there isn't much flexibility and it's overpowered. You don't see simple freighters take on a capital ship and even then... I destroy all turrets on the swtor equivalent of the star destroyer but I can't blow up the ship? And you also don't see the empire sending in those destroyers to destroy a single shuttle. The only relatively decent ones are the station assault missions but still... swg's jtl was simply way better except for maybe 1 thing which is the graphics but thats about it.

3: Community. So Bioware doesn't make server forums. Probably a decision based on what you see in other games, lots of forum pvp requiring a lot of moderation. If you don't allow cross faction chat, why make server forums? Thats all great but you never get to know the people on your server and since there isn't any playerhousing... where is / are the places to group up? This may be unexperience on my part since I don't have any lvl 50 toons yet but it doesn't look very bright. I joined up with friends I made in swg but outside of my own guild, difficult to get to know people and when for example you quest together with someone else... I honestly don't like to do that. It's solo content and I like to do that on my own, at my own pace. I don't appreciate people using speeders in npc area's which unfortunately 70% of the playerbase is doing. Seeing npc's as non-factors somehow. On the other hand, you also have people going afk. Long story short, the nature of swg made it much better to form a community. You needed each other. You need entertainers to buff you up, you need crafters for your gear and they need customers as well as resources which they don't all gather themselves. Personal issue: I wish there was just 1 type of server but unfortunately due to the majority of the mmo playerbase, there are 4 types of servers which just splits up the community.

4: Planet building: So in stead of going to where you want and what you want to see, you go to the places where your taxi takes you and the surrounding zone. This is especially the case on Coruscant, Nar Shaddaa but least on Tatooine and I think Hoth, having not seen Voss or Corellia yet. Anyways, the freedom of movent is small. You can't climb a mountain or go to the top of it. No atmospheric flight. Contrary to what they mentioned when swtor was still in development.. I don't exactly feel that I am on that planet. Sure, there is atmosphere created by the scenes and npc's you talk to but thats about it. In swg, the feeling that you are on planet x was much more there because it was 1 map and you could go whereever you want on that map.

Now, this is off course complaining on my part and there are definately good things about swtor. 8 chars per server are a good thing as well as the voiceovers and things you can do in that game. For example the graphics and animations and I really don't mind the fact that there isn't an "on leave" mechanic in swtor, though that may be difficult later when population is shrinking and it will be hard to group for certain instances however for now, this is good. Overall though, I hope there will be an swg type of game in the near future.

Oh yes, nothing like empty player cities, a dead economy, and garbage combat to make a game like SWG great...

TOR lacks a lot but it is 1,000 X the game that NGE ever was and is actually commercially successful.

Originally posted by Thunderous

Oh yes, nothing like empty player cities, a dead economy, and garbage combat to make a game like SWG great...

TOR lacks a lot but it is 1,000 X the game that NGE ever was and is actually commercially successful.

Exactly how I feel. The very first time I got engaged in my Sith Warrior's storyline all thoughts of SWG disappeared. Not to mention the fact that the game is more stable than SWG was in its entire existence.

I do not find SWTORs combat great, probably as I got used to SWGs and the way it was all customisable, SWTORs is all set into a non customisable UI and has no macros.

SWTOR has not been around long enough yet to get unstable but they have made a start yesterday, with Ilum, and the cooldowns are now a pain. They also had to do another emergency patch straight after to fix the 1.1 patch, and constantly changing the downtimes, resulting in the last 2 week not able to play in the week days - did other stuff when I thought game was down for maintenance but was not down in the end so could have played, and then when was able to play as thought it was not down for maintenance, it was down for maintenance - a complete joke. At least SOE got this right near the end, giving about 1 weeks notice for maintenance, and always doing it on a Tue/Thu. More upates = less stability, new things bork something something, and the fix then borks something else, and so on.

Player cities were not empty in SWG when the people in the city came online. You can not expect them to be on at the same time as you!

Actually for me playing a Sith character made me miss SWG all the more, as I could not get the character right, and the game did not have the same hairstyle I as I had for my "sith" in SWG (Imperial Jedi). Also my characters were my doing, my creation - I created my own story for my characters. Characters in SWTOR are Biowares doing, Biowares creation, and progress within Biowares story. The cutscene for the Light saber creation in SWTOR was awesome, but  in SWG searching for the best resources, crystals/pearls for the LS and then crafting it myself, was a much more personal rewarding experience.

Until SWTOR starts getting more and better systems in game than just story based questing, then SWG will always be 1000x better game than SWTOR. You could do anything you want in the game, it was only limited by your imagination. 

The only commercial success of SWTOR was its launch, following that it is just a complete disaster, bad press after bad press, and EA/Bioware doing damage control, and getting desperate, giving founders titles to those who purchase AND sub to the game, and also sending out emails to people who have not yet registered their game. Subs are going down fast.

SWG would have picked up loads if it stayed active. EA knew that SWTOR was no where near the MMO like SWG or WOW, and so secured the licence to make sure people stick to SWTOR than leave for SWG.

If SWG did not shut down then I would have been gutted by SWTORs failure, but as it got shut down and I lost tonnes of hours and characters and invested tonnes of money into it, and it did not shut down when server populations reached that of the Matriix or Vanguard (which is still active but yet to see either of the 2 servers get off low) then I do not care whether it fails or succeeds, although I am glad it is failing as it seems to be hurting EA

The game will be around for years whether populations pick up or not, so plenty of time to get what I want out of it - The Story, level toons to 50 and then quit, and then maybe play them through again in a year or two

If SWG does not come back, then I keep fingers crossed they add more of what made SWG great, but not counting on it, and the only good thing about SWG closing is that it is saving me tonnes of money. If it comes back then I can say goodbye to my life and money again! SWG is the only game I would do that with, even if another snadbox game was done, I would not bother with it - all my characters, achievements, stuff etc is gone and was a once in a lifetime thing. All other MMOs I will max out characters and then quit, as none of them have any long lasting appeal like SWG did. I could have played that forever and ever.

superniceguy,

I don't see TOR doing much to look or play like SWG and I don't EVER see SWG:NGE coming back, in any form. 

I think if anything you will see games more like SWG Pre-CU, non-Star Wars of course, hitting the market before you see more WoW-clones.

I think that ship has sailed and the new FTP model can cater to an even more casual gamer than WoW can.

SWG:NGE was a failure in almost every front, it took a flawed but good game and made it infinitely worse in every way, it took the NGE almost 3 years to be actually playable and it NEVER really got out of Beta, even at the end.

And your entire premise is flawed...  There WERE NO SITH OR JEDI during the SWG timeframe.  There weren't supposed to be.  The mere fact you saw thousands of Jedi and Sith running around with killing animals is exactly why the game was ultimately a total failure.

The best moments of SWG took place before there was 1 singe Jedi walking around.

TOR is actually playing in the right timeframe to have them.

Originally posted by Thunderous

superniceguy,

 

I don't see TOR doing much to look or play like SWG and I don't EVER see SWG:NGE coming back, in any form. 

I think if anything you will see games more like SWG Pre-CU, non-Star Wars of course, hitting the market before you see more WoW-clones.

I think that ship has sailed and the new FTP model can cater to an even more casual gamer than WoW can.

SWG:NGE was a failure in almost every front, it took a flawed but good game and made it infinitely worse in every way, it took the NGE almost 3 years to be actually playable and it NEVER really got out of Beta, even at the end.

And your entire premise is flawed...  There WERE NO SITH OR JEDI during the SWG timeframe.  There weren't supposed to be.  The mere fact you saw thousands of Jedi and Sith running around with killing animals is exactly why the game was ultimately a total failure.

The best moments of SWG took place before there was 1 singe Jedi walking around.

TOR is actually playing in the right timeframe to have them.

Complaints about SW:G having more than 1 jedi...how disingenious.

LA and SOE pandered to the people that wanted the glowbat. 

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Thunderous

Oh yes, nothing like empty player cities, a dead economy, and garbage combat to make a game like SWG great...

TOR lacks a lot but it is 1,000 X the game that NGE ever was and is actually commercially successful.

Exactly how I feel. The very first time I got engaged in my Sith Warrior's storyline all thoughts of SWG disappeared. Not to mention the fact that the game is more stable than SWG was in its entire existence.

 

Q F E!!!

SWTOR has it's issues, but compared to the NGE, SWTOR is without a doubt the superior game in every way.

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Thunderous

Oh yes, nothing like empty player cities, a dead economy, and garbage combat to make a game like SWG great...

TOR lacks a lot but it is 1,000 X the game that NGE ever was and is actually commercially successful.

Exactly how I feel. The very first time I got engaged in my Sith Warrior's storyline all thoughts of SWG disappeared. Not to mention the fact that the game is more stable than SWG was in its entire existence.

 

Q F E!!!

 

SWTOR has it's issues, but compared to the NGE, SWTOR is without a doubt the superior game in every way.

SWTOR has issues, and even less issues as game features do not exist to bog it down, therefore SWTOR becomes redundant when you hit level 50.

SWG was a game you could play forever.

SWTOR > SWG when levelling up, but at max level, SWG is the way far more superior game, as you still have a game to play, SWTOR is logout and cancel sub time.

If SWTOR gets more stuff added to it and not just more Flashpoints (and the last one was a zombie one as well!) and story based quests, then SWTOR will end up beating SWG hands down, but until that happens then SWTOR is just a shell of a game of the NGE, and just improves on SWG by doing a far better Legacy quest series. Everything else that SWG does is just non existent or worse in SWTOR

To be fair, SWG launched in a different era and we expected less of it. The UI was a nightmare and just as ugly as the one from SWTOR but back then we had not yet grown used to the user made UI's from WoW. In fact, a lot of WoW was back then still new.

Remember Death Watch Bunker? Enemies with 100% resists except one damage type which was at a mere 90% resist? A fight that consisited of NOTHING but a slap down? It makes Age of Conan group content look complex.

SWG is fondly remember because we didn't expect that much yet and more recent MMO's haven't really set the bar any higher.

I have fond memories of SWG but I also saw how players destroyed by running around without pants because exploiting every bug for max stats is what most gamers want over immersion. 

And SWG did not die with the NGE or even the CU, it died way before, with the doc buff, which was introduced to satisfy players who wanted to wear heavy armour without the regen penalty to their HAM bar. With the doc buff any reason for grouping died, a few diehards still did it for fun but most MMO players do not play for fun, they play for stats. 

I have had conversation at the time with players with a group of us organizing a hunting trip or a sight seeing tour and people asking what they got out of it or even replying "I am busy grinding can you run it tomorrow"... yeah... sure...

SWTOR is filled with players like this, players the rush to max then begging while hating for players to join them on Esseless because they first grinded levels and now are grinding social points... it is however where the easy money is... for a while because the same people are already cancelling as the game has run out of stats to give them... how many legacy levels have you got so far with no legacy system in sight?

SWG was a MMO when 300.000 players was considered to be the max user base. When WoW launched it was suggested that it could only take users form other MMO's... but all other MMO's combined barely reached a million, not the 10 million WoW got in the end. WoW expanded the market into a giant one and everyone has been trying to create the game that would take all... and failed.

So we remember a old bugged and incomplete game because back then it was all much simpler. SWG was never overrun by idiots the way modern games are. When you played with a group on sWG you played with people that wanted to have an adventure, not a stat increase.

Everyone left their homes, their families, friends their land and possessions. The sounds and sights of the theme park where so compelling, the flashing lights and sounds drew people in from all the land to experience the treasures within, the rides oh there are so many to try!

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Thunderous

Oh yes, nothing like empty player cities, a dead economy, and garbage combat to make a game like SWG great...

TOR lacks a lot but it is 1,000 X the game that NGE ever was and is actually commercially successful.

Exactly how I feel. The very first time I got engaged in my Sith Warrior's storyline all thoughts of SWG disappeared. Not to mention the fact that the game is more stable than SWG was in its entire existence.

 

Q F E!!!

 

SWTOR has it's issues, but compared to the NGE, SWTOR is without a doubt the superior game in every way.

SWTOR has issues, and even less issues as game features do not exist to bog it down, therefore SWTOR becomes redundant when I hit level 50.

SWG was a game I could play forever.

Fixed. SWG was not a game I could play forever. Sure, if you enjoy decorating a house, running restuss over and over again, base busting over and over again, throwing your money away in the TCG, then sure SWG was a wonderful game. I however found NGE to be a shell of what SWG was and even that version of the game wasn't all that.

Far as which game is superior in the long run, only time will tell.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Thunderous

Oh yes, nothing like empty player cities, a dead economy, and garbage combat to make a game like SWG great...

TOR lacks a lot but it is 1,000 X the game that NGE ever was and is actually commercially successful.

Exactly how I feel. The very first time I got engaged in my Sith Warrior's storyline all thoughts of SWG disappeared. Not to mention the fact that the game is more stable than SWG was in its entire existence.

 

Q F E!!!

 

SWTOR has it's issues, but compared to the NGE, SWTOR is without a doubt the superior game in every way.

SWTOR has issues, and even less issues as game features do not exist to bog it down, therefore SWTOR becomes redundant when I hit level 50.

SWG was a game I could play forever.

Fixed. SWG was not a game I could play forever. Sure, if you enjoy decorating a house, running restuss over and over again, base busting over and over again, throwing your money away in the TCG, then sure SWG was a wonderful game. I however found NGE to be a shell of what SWG was and even that version of the game wasn't all that.

Far as which game is superior in the long run, only time will tell.

 

NGE was a shell of what SWG originally was but SWTOR is a shell of what the NGE was. I never paid a penny for the TCG except for the stuffed Tauntaun as money went to a good cause, and SOE paid double to them what I paid to SOE for it.

Obviously not everyone will like all systems, but the lack of systems in SWTOR means players will not stick at the game so long, and therefore will not be in game to join in stuff you may like

eg if someone likes to craft, create pets, make up quests via chronicles, RE, harvest resource etc then if you come online and want to do Heroics or PVP, then you could ask the person doing these things if they want to join you.

As SWTOR does not have these things, then you will find less people available to do Flashpoints etc with you, and if you can not find people to do stuff with then you will not play the game either in the end

SWTOR does not have to have the exact same things as SWG but needs more tinkering content than just story based stuff to keep players playing and generating their own content. People like me, are the glue to keep people like you playing.

I hadn't played SWG for years but playing TOR has made me wish that I had spent more time in SWG than I did. Nothing like losing the option to do something to make you realize that you ctually valued it more than you thought.

The linear, storyline crap is depressing. It's just wow with different textures and biowares storyline style bolted on.

I can dig it to a point. Bioware does some great single player storylines action gigs for sure. This isn't an MMO in a worthwhile though. It's a single player game with a fancy lobby and a multiplayer mode. I'll play for a few months and be done with it, as is the standard reaction to the garbage they pump out these in the mmo sphere.

I really hated the NGE, but i got to say that even the NGE is a better game than SWTOR as an MMORPG. SWTOR is a good game as a single player game with co-op options. nothing more.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Thunderous

Oh yes, nothing like empty player cities, a dead economy, and garbage combat to make a game like SWG great...

TOR lacks a lot but it is 1,000 X the game that NGE ever was and is actually commercially successful.

Exactly how I feel. The very first time I got engaged in my Sith Warrior's storyline all thoughts of SWG disappeared. Not to mention the fact that the game is more stable than SWG was in its entire existence.

 

Q F E!!!

 

SWTOR has it's issues, but compared to the NGE, SWTOR is without a doubt the superior game in every way.

SWTOR has issues, and even less issues as game features do not exist to bog it down, therefore SWTOR becomes redundant when I hit level 50.

SWG was a game I could play forever.

Fixed. SWG was not a game I could play forever. Sure, if you enjoy decorating a house, running restuss over and over again, base busting over and over again, throwing your money away in the TCG, then sure SWG was a wonderful game. I however found NGE to be a shell of what SWG was and even that version of the game wasn't all that.

Far as which game is superior in the long run, only time will tell.

 It's actually simple.

 

ToR is going to need to run for at least 9 years to be the more sucessful game.