Originally posted by Loekii

 

To me, that just shows the power of Hype and the Brand name. 

For example:

• http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/02/07/star-trek-online-reaches-one-million-accounts/
• http://www.gamespot.com/news/warhammer-online-army-750000-strong-6199142

I cannot find links, but iirc, SWG sold over 1 million boxes at release, but failed to retain 75% of those sales in the following months.

 

That doesn't sound accurate to me as I remember an announcement in 05 (or so) saying SWG was approaching or had sold their millionth copy.

"wiki" In August 2005, SOE reported that they had sold 1,000,000 boxed copies of the game

Source from wiki   http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/star-wars-galaxies-sales-top-a-million-units  take note of the date of the article.

Originally posted by Zippy

Originally posted by Eliandal

Originally posted by Zippy

Originally posted by Puremallace

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by Teh_Axi

Are you really trying to make a big deal out of some analyst speculating TOR will have average sales figures?

Average?

Which other MMO has ever opened to these kinds of sales numbers?  I'll tell you. None.

WoW had maybe 250k on launch, Aion managed 400k.  Rift never hit a million, though they've still never given us any solid numbers.

You don't have to like the game, but at least be realistic when talking about it.

Pretty sure quotes like "we are approaching our millionith copy sold" indicates Rift did pretty good.

With 99 Full servers with long queues at release I think its a pretty fair bet Rift sold over a million the first week.  Each server becomes full at 3500 players before going to queue.  Unless you believe more than 35% of box sales were logged in at once they sold well over a million.  But besides that your other numbers are accurate.  Additionally AoC sold 700k, Warhammer a bit more.  But you are right SWTOR's numbers are amazing.

 

  Rift cannot have sold over a million first month.  If they did, Trion wouldn`t have given an interview two months ago stating they `were nearing 1 million units sold`.  While the game is popular, it is in the "AOC" or "WAR" league of "launch" popular.  Although WAR did sell 1.1 million copies in the first month - and of course we now know what happened to both those games.  Thankfully Trion released a polished game - which has saved them so far from the same fate.

 

  It's still nice numbers for Bioware though.  Kudos to them.  I know I've already taken the 6 month plan - and I'll re-evaluate at that point.

 

  Just as an aside...really, when you think about it - ALL of their numbers have been kind of astonishing.  A "Beta" weekend that was bigger than most launches, pre-orders that are more on par with popular single player PC games.  Estimates of Early Access numbers being between 1 and 1.5 million people - and smooth as silk (for me anyways)

That is not true.  While they have  had a couple of  emplyess come out and say a few things about population they shouldn't have.  Such as the first month one employee said we have sold over a million copies, another said person was quoted as saying players  have created a million accounts.  Both times  Trion has said they won't comment.  Trion is very secretive.  One thing is all employess sign a NDA and they take it very seriously. I know someone who lost their job there for talking about some company info in game.  Not important info.  They keep a very tight ship on what is said. 

I was there at the launch of Rift in the EU I dont think they had anything like the numbers playing in early access in ToR .

Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by stratasaurus

I love all the comments about how crappy end game is on this game that has not even launched yet?  Kind of early to judge the end game when maybe 20 to 50 people total are max level across all servers.

I think it comes from the fact that the major attraction of SWTOR is the story.  And the story is going to end at some point, probably max-level.

And when you strip the story from SWTOR, it really isn't that good of a game when compared to its peers.

Untill the next patch when the story is continued of course and lets not forget you can play several different storys and each story in different ways .

I am reading claims that is not the case.

Rather while each class story is different, a good chunk of the story is repeated content.   For example, a Republic player that enjoyed each and ever story available to him/her, will be repeating a lot of those stories on their next Republic character - from what I have read.

It doesn't sound like the story is laid out in such a way, where a player can run off to different zones on their second play through and avoid a lot of repeated story content --- like one can in WoW (Tauren in Mulgore, and then Tauren in Undead lands).

And until we see BW churing out large patches of story content, I do not believe we are going to see it.   Rather I can see something more along the real of paid expansions introducing more story.   Again, it is more about 'seeing is believing', for me at least.   Not saying it cannot happen, but rather that until it does, I am doubtful.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Loekii

 

To me, that just shows the power of Hype and the Brand name. 

For example:

• http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/02/07/star-trek-online-reaches-one-million-accounts/
• http://www.gamespot.com/news/warhammer-online-army-750000-strong-6199142

I cannot find links, but iirc, SWG sold over 1 million boxes at release, but failed to retain 75% of those sales in the following months.

 

That doesn't sound accurate to me as i rememebr an announcement in 05 saying SWG was approaching or had sold their millionth copy.

 

"wiki" In August 2005, SOE reported that they had sold 1,000,000 boxed copies of the game

Source from wiki   http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/star-wars-galaxies-sales-top-a-million-units  take note of the date of the article.

 

I stand corrected.    However, according to MMOCharts, the sub numbers were falling 300k -- so it wasn't as if they had 1 million active subscriptions:

• http://www.ff14news.com/wp-content/gallery/2009-12-23_mmo_charts/subscriptions_11327_image001.png

For myself, box sales is just an indicaiton of how well a game has been marketed (hyped), where as resub numbers is a good indication of how good a game is (how happy customers are with it).

Originally posted by Loekii

Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by stratasaurus

I love all the comments about how crappy end game is on this game that has not even launched yet?  Kind of early to judge the end game when maybe 20 to 50 people total are max level across all servers.

I think it comes from the fact that the major attraction of SWTOR is the story.  And the story is going to end at some point, probably max-level.

And when you strip the story from SWTOR, it really isn't that good of a game when compared to its peers.

Untill the next patch when the story is continued of course and lets not forget you can play several different storys and each story in different ways .

I am reading claims that is not the case.

 

Rather while each class story is different, a good chunk of the story is repeated content.   For example, a Republic player that enjoyed each and ever story available to him/her, will be repeating a lot of those stories on their next Republic character - from what I have read.

 

It doesn't sound like the story is laid out in such a way, where a player can run off to different zones on their second play through and avoid a lot of repeated story content --- like one can in WoW (Tauren in Mulgore, and then Tauren in Undead lands).

 

And until we see BW churing out large patches of story content, I do not believe we are going to see it.   Rather I can see something more along the real of paid expansions introducing more story.   Again, it is more about 'seeing is believing', for me at least.   Not saying it cannot happen, but rather that until it does, I am doubtful.

 

 

Each story is different as is each side. Now, you can also very effectively level by either pvping or space missions. Pvp is a very efficent way to level as you get pretty decent gear from pvp as well. 

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by Teh_Axi

Are you really trying to make a big deal out of some analyst speculating TOR will have average sales figures?

Average?

Which other MMO has ever opened to these kinds of sales numbers?  I'll tell you. None.

WoW had maybe 250k on launch, Aion managed 400k.  Rift never hit a million, though they've still never given us any solid numbers.

You don't have to like the game, but at least be realistic when talking about it.

Actually according to old news reports WoW was the fastest selling game when it launched.  It sold 250k copies in 24hrs.   Soon after it continued the pace and had sold almost a million copies by Christmas of that year.   Back then that was unheard of for an MMORPG. 

As for Aion...Aion sold according to news articles almost 600k copies US and EU when it released - which actually broke WoW's old record for MMO sells.   Age of Conan sold 800k copies in the US and EU ,and eventaully over a million within a couple of months of its lanuch.   Rift also did very well in  the US and EU selling 1 million units...from March to June.   Warhammer sold almost a million copies...but it was ghost town with a couple months of its release and had barerly 50k players - today it is even less.   

So other games have started out pretty strong in initial sells, but retention of those sales was horrible.  It is said that Aion retained just a bit over 5% of all US sales and a little better in the EU at 12%.    As for Age of Conan...it was considered dead by the market analyst within 6 months of launch retaining maybe 3 to 4 percent of its initial sales in the US and a little more in the EU between 8% and 10%.    Rift has actually faired better and seems to have held a little more of its initial player base at about 25%. 

Everyone who says TOR will be ftp soon, and will fail because it has themeparks in it I feel are wrong.

TOR has themeparks yes, but they are fun rides. The stories are very well done. The game is very addicting and immersive. TOR is very polished, and lots of fun.

TOR already is a solid success. It's good to be back with my SWG guildies and friends among the MANY new faces.

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by Teh_Axi

Are you really trying to make a big deal out of some analyst speculating TOR will have average sales figures?

Average?

Which other MMO has ever opened to these kinds of sales numbers?  I'll tell you. None.

WoW had maybe 250k on launch, Aion managed 400k.  Rift never hit a million, though they've still never given us any solid numbers.

You don't have to like the game, but at least be realistic when talking about it.

Actually according to old news reports WoW was the fastest selling game when it launched.  It sold 250k copies in 24hrs.   Soon after it continued the pace and had sold almost a million copies by Christmas of that year.   Back then that was unheard of for an MMORPG. 

As for Aion...Aion sold according to news articles almost 600k copies US and EU when it released - which actually broke WoW's old record for MMO sells.   Age of Conan sold 800k copies in the US and EU ,and eventaully over a million within a couple of months of its lanuch.   Rift also did very well in  the US and EU selling 1 million units...from March to June.   Warhammer sold almost a million copies...but it was ghost town with a couple months of its release and had barerly 50k players - today it is even less.   

So other games have started out pretty strong in initial sells, but retention of those sales was horrible.  It is said that Aion retained just a bit over 5% of all US sales and a little better in the EU at 12%.    As for Age of Conan...it was considered dead by the market analyst within 6 months of launch retaining maybe 3 to 4 percent of its initial sales in the US and a little more in the EU between 8% and 10%.    Rift has actually faired better and seems to have held a little more of its initial player base at about 25%. 

Do you have sources for this.  Everything I have read has Aion at over 1M subs and a peak of over 3M....If they are at 1M(which is conservative by what I can find) at 5% that would mean 20M boxes sold....Even at the EU number of 12% that is close to 10M sold. 

I don't know why people get hung up on how long a game may or not be around for or when it will go FTP.

I will sub for 3 months and then judge where I am with it.  The cost for a 3 month sub is dirt cheap compared to standalone games and even if I didn't continue I know I will have fun running through the story's and landscape. 

The longest games I have subbed to are

EvE - 5 years (indy)

Fallen Earth - 1+ year (indy)

AoC - 6 months.

Everything else has been a fun run around for 1-4 months. 

Personally I hope they make a profit because if companies stop making money out of MMO's then future MMO's won't get the investment needed to make them.

Originally posted by stratasaurus

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by Teh_Axi

Are you really trying to make a big deal out of some analyst speculating TOR will have average sales figures?

Average?

Which other MMO has ever opened to these kinds of sales numbers?  I'll tell you. None.

WoW had maybe 250k on launch, Aion managed 400k.  Rift never hit a million, though they've still never given us any solid numbers.

You don't have to like the game, but at least be realistic when talking about it.

Actually according to old news reports WoW was the fastest selling game when it launched.  It sold 250k copies in 24hrs.   Soon after it continued the pace and had sold almost a million copies by Christmas of that year.   Back then that was unheard of for an MMORPG. 

As for Aion...Aion sold according to news articles almost 600k copies US and EU when it released - which actually broke WoW's old record for MMO sells.   Age of Conan sold 800k copies in the US and EU ,and eventaully over a million within a couple of months of its lanuch.   Rift also did very well in  the US and EU selling 1 million units...from March to June.   Warhammer sold almost a million copies...but it was ghost town with a couple months of its release and had barerly 50k players - today it is even less.   

So other games have started out pretty strong in initial sells, but retention of those sales was horrible.  It is said that Aion retained just a bit over 5% of all US sales and a little better in the EU at 12%.    As for Age of Conan...it was considered dead by the market analyst within 6 months of launch retaining maybe 3 to 4 percent of its initial sales in the US and a little more in the EU between 8% and 10%.    Rift has actually faired better and seems to have held a little more of its initial player base at about 25%. 

Do you have sources for this.  Everything I have read has Aion at over 1M subs and a peak of over 3M....If they are at 1M(which is conservative by what I can find) at 5% that would mean 20M boxes sold....Even at the EU number of 12% that is close to 10M sold. 

Did I mention the asian market in anything I wrote.  I am talking about he EU and NA market.   Aion was a major success in the asian market...then again it is an asian made game aimed at the asian market.    Doesn't matter what Aion does there...what matters is how it fairs here and in Europe.    The asian market is different than the US and EU market.    The games created in and for the asian market genreally do not fair as well here in the US or Europe.    This is very well known.   Plus I dunno where you got your numbers from but there is no way Aion sold 10 million copies in the EU - no way.    That would make it one of the best selling games ever in the EU and in the world for that matter and that is not the case.   It didn't do to badly though when you include box and digital download sells it managed to break the 1 million mark eventually.

This is what is know about Aion sales.

Sales and revenue

Aion was the biggest MMO release in recent years according to NCsoft, with 400,000 pre-orders in the US. The game generated 40.6 billion won ($32.7 million) in the fiscal quarter in South Korea, Taiwan, China, and Japan.^[26] In China, over 1 million players logged in within the first four days of release.^[27]

On its western release, Aion became the best-selling PC game of September 2009.^[28] It also managed to remain at No. 1 on both the Steam and Direct2Drive charts for several weeks.^[29][30] By 9 November 2009, the game had sold nearly 1 million copies in the west, with 500,000 units sold in the US and 470,000 units in Europe. The success of Aion resulted in NCsoft's quarterly revenues to rise 112% for a total of $142 million.^[31]

---

Originally posted by Teala

So other games have started out pretty strong in initial sells, but retention of those sales was horrible.  It is said that Aion retained just a bit over 5% of all US sales and a little better in the EU at 12%.    As for Age of Conan...it was considered dead by the market analyst within 6 months of launch retaining maybe 3 to 4 percent of its initial sales in the US and a little more in the EU between 8% and 10%.    Rift has actually faired better and seems to have held a little more of its initial player base at about 25%. 

---

Mmos weren't doing six month and one year subs at AOC, Aion, Warhammer, launches. Those were monthly subs only if I remember right at launch.

Rift was selling three, six and I think yearly from day one, so they count their 'retention' six months later as people who were still on the sub whereas games like War at launch had to have people resubbing each time.

I'm pretty sure that's how it was, but I could be wrong about their launches.

edit: I might be wrong about this. I think I see something about AoC launching with six month plans, but not one year.

Originally posted by Teala

Aion was the biggest MMO release in recent years according to NCsoft, with 400,000 pre-orders in the US.

And ToR more than doubled that (950k+), not counting physical boxes or Euro orders.

That's got to be Irksome.

Originally posted by TdogSkal

I give TOR 2 years before it is F2P.   All Theme Park games have the same problem, end game.  Once you reach max level how much is there to do?  Raid or PVP and sometimes group PvE content.  

I have not played TOR and I do not plan on playing as I am sick and tired of Theme park games, they are just not fun for me at all.   Enjoy the new favor of the month and I do hope I am wrong but 2 years and TOR is a F2P game.

How on earth a game can be cataloged as a Theme Park if no one have played end game for the retail version. I wonder what game you play, that gives such and insight without playing the game. If you play the game by all means I'll give credit to your opinion, but please play it and maybe you are right or maybe you are wrong.

Many hope you hit the spot, and many companies are nervous on what is goin to happen, hoping it fails.

I played beta and currently playing the game and it brought something else. Its the voice of many gamers that are sick and tired of how the MMO's are developing. Messy storylines. Horrible gaming comunity. Bad expansions. Easy playing. This game is different.

It dosen't have the feel of a theme park game, it has something else about it. Maybe the ships and how one use them. Maybe the setting, a non-fantasy game MMO was late due. Or the good players comunity. I think its a great comunity, I'm playing the game and it feels like when played an MMO for the first time. It felt like Everquest, WoW clasic and SWG. 3 games I held dearly for the great times I had playing them. 

Maybe this time we have a good game for a change. Really hope it last. If It feels like a joy ride or ebcome one I'll be the first to trash the game for it. Still it dosen't feels like it. 

I belive there will be some records bronke. Hope they quickly earn money so Bio develop more content and don't stop the game. It's too soon to say its a Theme Park. If haven't play the game don't trash it. Play it, go to end game and then tell me how it went. 

Originally posted by TdogSkal

I give TOR 2 years before it is F2P.   All Theme Park games have the same problem, end game.  Once you reach max level how much is there to do?  Raid or PVP and sometimes group PvE content.  

I have not played TOR and I do not plan on playing as I am sick and tired of Theme park games, they are just not fun for me at all.   Enjoy the new favor of the month and I do hope I am wrong but 2 years and TOR is a F2P game.

Makes me wonder why you're posting here, in this thread, about this game? 

I will admit I have a difficult time understanding why people like/dislike things sometimes.  I personally thing STO was a horrible game and just today I met someone with like 10 level 50's and has been playing it daily and loving it since release.  I just don't get it!

WoW was an amazing game (my opinion that was shared by millions and millions of people).  Eventually you get tired of it and move on.  People seem to think playing a game for 400+ days /played and getting tired of it means it's a bad game.  I doubt many people have logged 400+ days /played in Skyrim or Oblivion.  As much as people love those games there just isn't that much to do.

I can't talk about TOR's endgame yet as I haven't gotten there.  SOON!

My belief is that it's far more important how each company manages their respective games from launch onward than it is the amount of preorders and initial players.  Over the last few years we've seen some pretty large numbers that begin a new mmo, beit 500k or 2m.  What there really hasn't been is a game that has started moderately or high and continually grown over a significant amount of time.  We've seen a couple that have risen a bit over the short-term and have maintained for a while, and several to most that have dropped a lot to level out at adequate to poor numbers.  Is the tendency to drop due mostly to subpar games, saturation of the genre, developers caring more about the dollar than the product, other reasons?  The answer probably differs in each instance.

Experiences I have with some of the newer games that haven't seen continual growth but just maintained or lost population is that they've been good at making their games look nice, but other areas lack.  There has been a severe lack of apparent knowledge in maintenance, update accuracy and speed, what I have to call unwillingness to change game mechanics in a fashion that is more fun for the playerbase, as well as creativity for and the understanding of what is required in keeping pace with the evolution of gaming.  In at least one case the company seemed to be completely clueless or did not care what happened to their game after release day.  It continually lost players for over two years until only the most hardcore fanbois have been able to hang on, and everything they did at an extremely slow pace only made it worse.  There really is no way to come back from that as we've seen.  These companies can keep switching to a level of f2p all they want.  They're not going to suddenly become juggernauts, especially with limited f2p models.

In my nonprofessional, on the outside opinion, if an mmo isn't steadily increasing its playerbase over the course of its entire first year then it's probably never going to increase much more after that time.  And of course, new games coming out are going to take a hit on what numbers they have been maintaining.  If we sit back and think about it, how many games in the past ten years continued to, or reported to continually gain significant numbers over the course of several years.  Two of the main ones include one mmorpg and one "corpg" - both of which happened to be pretty much the 'this or that' around 2005-2006, each earning multiple awards.  The one is obviously the aging behemoth, the other of which is receiving a true mmo sequel this coming year.  What did they do well over the course of their respective games early years?  Most things - including not having too many issues with the things listed in my second paragraph.

Originally posted by Painlezz

Originally posted by TdogSkal

I give TOR 2 years before it is F2P.   All Theme Park games have the same problem, end game.  Once you reach max level how much is there to do?  Raid or PVP and sometimes group PvE content.  

I have not played TOR and I do not plan on playing as I am sick and tired of Theme park games, they are just not fun for me at all.   Enjoy the new favor of the month and I do hope I am wrong but 2 years and TOR is a F2P game.

Makes me wonder why you're posting here, in this thread, about this game? 

I will admit I have a difficult time understanding why people like/dislike things sometimes.  I personally thing STO was a horrible game and just today I met someone with like 10 level 50's and has been playing it daily and loving it since release.  I just don't get it!

WoW was an amazing game (my opinion that was shared by millions and millions of people).  Eventually you get tired of it and move on.  People seem to think playing a game for 400+ days /played and getting tired of it means it's a bad game.  I doubt many people have logged 400+ days /played in Skyrim or Oblivion.  As much as people love those games there just isn't that much to do.

I can't talk about TOR's endgame yet as I haven't gotten there.  SOON!

I am posting about this game because this is the latest MMORPG to hit the market that is a theme park game and as we have seem with the countless other copies on the market currently the history of these type of games.  They go F2P after a year or 2.

Just because I have not played the game does not mean I do not know what to expect out of these type of games.   History is your friend.  The History of Theme park games for the last 5 or so years is they release with large numbers and within a year or two they are F2P with half or less servers than at launch.  

Why does it bother you so much that I am posting about this game?  

Originally posted by noxiel

Originally posted by TdogSkal

I give TOR 2 years before it is F2P.   All Theme Park games have the same problem, end game.  Once you reach max level how much is there to do?  Raid or PVP and sometimes group PvE content.  

I have not played TOR and I do not plan on playing as I am sick and tired of Theme park games, they are just not fun for me at all.   Enjoy the new favor of the month and I do hope I am wrong but 2 years and TOR is a F2P game.

How on earth a game can be cataloged as a Theme Park if no one have played end game for the retail version. I wonder what game you play, that gives such and insight without playing the game. If you play the game by all means I'll give credit to your opinion, but please play it and maybe you are right or maybe you are wrong.

Many hope you hit the spot, and many companies are nervous on what is goin to happen, hoping it fails.

I played beta and currently playing the game and it brought something else. Its the voice of many gamers that are sick and tired of how the MMO's are developing. Messy storylines. Horrible gaming comunity. Bad expansions. Easy playing. This game is different.

It dosen't have the feel of a theme park game, it has something else about it. Maybe the ships and how one use them. Maybe the setting, a non-fantasy game MMO was late due. Or the good players comunity. I think its a great comunity, I'm playing the game and it feels like when played an MMO for the first time. It felt like Everquest, WoW clasic and SWG. 3 games I held dearly for the great times I had playing them. 

Maybe this time we have a good game for a change. Really hope it last. If It feels like a joy ride or ebcome one I'll be the first to trash the game for it. Still it dosen't feels like it. 

I belive there will be some records bronke. Hope they quickly earn money so Bio develop more content and don't stop the game. It's too soon to say its a Theme Park. If haven't play the game don't trash it. Play it, go to end game and then tell me how it went. 

[Mod Edit]  I have been playing online games with the same group of people since 2000 in EQ1.  Some of them are playing this game and we talk about it on Skype all the time.   They tell me it is on rails, ie a theme park game.  You follow quest hub to quest hub and you have a set path to level depending on the faction you picked at the start.    Tell me I am wrong?

Also we know this is a theme park game as it is not a sandbox game as it has a set number of classes that fill certain roles plus you follow quest hub to quest hub to level.  No need to explore much as it will tell you where to go for the next set of quest.   Also Based on it being a Theme park game, we have a history over the last 5 years of these types of gamings releaseing to mega hype and slowing dieing until they go to F2P or a Hybrd Model within 2 years.  Again tell me I am wrong?

Why does it bother you so much that I come to MMORPG forum and post about the newest released MMORPG?

In this day and age, I think that's far from impressive. Especially for a game as heavily pushed as SWTOR. 

I agree with the poster that said this game will be headed the F2P route in a 2 years. The industry looks to be slowly changing and people will refuse to pay for the hot mess that is SWTOR.

Originally posted by pharazonic

In this day and age, I think that's far from impressive. Especially for a game as heavily pushed as SWTOR. 

I agree with the poster that said this game will be headed the F2P route in a 2 years. The industry looks to be slowly changing and people will refuse to pay for the hot mess that is SWTOR.

 Not a chance. Lucas would shut it down first. People haven't refused to pay so far either.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by pharazonic

In this day and age, I think that's far from impressive. Especially for a game as heavily pushed as SWTOR. 

I agree with the poster that said this game will be headed the F2P route in a 2 years. The industry looks to be slowly changing and people will refuse to pay for the hot mess that is SWTOR.

 Not a chance. Lucas would shut it down first. People haven't refused to pay so far either.

F2P is already a profitable business model and in 2 years, it will probably be even more so given how the industrry seems to be progressing.