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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Question to the critics: Would you better receive this game if...

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93 posts found
  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7768

Logic be damned!

1/11/12 1:28:58 PM#61

You know what is really funny?

GW2 the "god" of MMO gaming on this website has the same single-player instanced/phased personal story elements that TOR has.

TOR phasing drops off significantly after Coruscant/Dromand Kaas.

People who think TOR is all solo/instanced game play either A) have never played the game or B) never got past the starter worlds lol

A good portion of the instanced/phased content after the core worlds is group only (heroic quests, flashpoints, operations, warfronts) and little do some know but 100% of the "single-player" story portions can be played multi-player and are actually a lot of fun to do so because of the conversation system and inside look into the personality of another class.

The only thing in TOR that is 100% single player is the space mini-game.

But anyone who thinks the space game isn't going to change and evolve significantly is fooling themselves.

We'll see multiplayer, free "Rogue Squadron" like flight, and probably PvP down the road.

As for the B2P vs P2P options, I am glad TOR is P2P because I get a ridiculous amount of content for one low monthly fee without feeling nickle and dimed to buy store items and content additions.

B2P is exactly the same as F2P except that they just charge you for initial access (box price.)

I happily support Bioware's continuing development and expansion of TOR with my monthly fee. If you don't, there are PLENTY of quality F2P games out there and apparently the Second Coming of the MMORPG genre is coming at some point this year with GW2.

Now Playing: Destiny, WoW

  User Deleted
1/11/12 1:29:34 PM#62

let's see, i would have bought this game if....

 

1: it had no tagging of mobs.

2: it had in world randomized events not on timers.

3: it didn't put in the gear treadmill

4: it had more cosmetic options, hate looking like a cookie cutter 

5: it had ambience including but not limited to interacting with npcs outside of vo, critters, ambiant sounds, distant sounds (like sand people on tatooine yelling in the distance)

6: no sub.

 

The last one is due to the fact that every themepark mmo has had the same practice of forcing an enormous amount of time from their players by requiring a grind for everything. The longer you have to be online the more months you have to pay for the more money they make and it forces them to have good player numbers. This combined with the social aspect of the gaming community is what's kept WoW's numbers so high for so long because people don't want to leave behind their friends even when the expansion is a steaming turd with nothing new to do. That's why i hate subs now :) waste of time and money.

  Don86

Novice Member

Joined: 1/14/11
Posts: 33

1/11/12 1:53:07 PM#63
Originally posted by fenistil
Originally posted by Pelaaja
Originally posted by fenistil
Originally posted by Pelaaja
Originally posted by zymurgeist

They couldn't build this game as a B2P. The budget is too big.

They could've if they had done it to console platforms also.

But PC only, you're right. There wouldn't have been enought buyers to make profit.

Well imo they made mistake with making game with limited mmorpg features , a game that imo resembles CORPG game but invested ALOT of money on voice overs to it.

If they would made Voice Overs / cutscenes only on class-quests (as they are very costly) and not do cinematic movies then maybe it would be viable as B2P?

That's the point zymurgeist meant, I think.

Full VO raises the budget so high, it must have a cashflow after initial buy (and to cover server upkeep and stuff).

The game has nothing that would be impossible on consoles, and console players are roughly 85% of any new games. That would've made B2P possible.

Well yes with one correction.

 

Actually in last few years trend change a bit with game sales.  PC game sales are rising faster than console ones in last years due to sites like Steam , GoG, electronic sales on Amazon, D2D ,etc

So it is not 85% anymore. Well maybe in US itself where consoles have very strong position, but definately not world-wide or NA+ EMEAA+Russia.

Remember sales shown on vgchartz only count retail sales, it does not show ANY digital distribution (which is more priftable than retail) and does not show retail sales from Central Europe and Eastern Europe/ Russa, Australia and other coutnries.  Only NA and part of EU retail sales and sometimes Japan.

 

 

1 point to note - PC gaming/DD sales are only big in the Western Countries but they fail to capture the asian market due to piracy/torrenting.

I'm from South East Asia and you'll never hear anyone paying for skyrim since they can get it for free(if you catch my drift)

MMORPGs are the only way to break into the asian market.

  User Deleted
1/11/12 2:16:32 PM#64
Originally posted by BadSpock

You know what is really funny?

GW2 the "god" of MMO gaming on this website has the same single-player instanced/phased personal story elements that TOR has.

TOR phasing drops off significantly after Coruscant/Dromand Kaas.

People who think TOR is all solo/instanced game play either A) have never played the game or B) never got past the starter worlds lol

A good portion of the instanced/phased content after the core worlds is group only (heroic quests, flashpoints, operations, warfronts) and little do some know but 100% of the "single-player" story portions can be played multi-player and are actually a lot of fun to do so because of the conversation system and inside look into the personality of another class.

The only thing in TOR that is 100% single player is the space mini-game.

But anyone who thinks the space game isn't going to change and evolve significantly is fooling themselves.

We'll see multiplayer, free "Rogue Squadron" like flight, and probably PvP down the road.

As for the B2P vs P2P options, I am glad TOR is P2P because I get a ridiculous amount of content for one low monthly fee without feeling nickle and dimed to buy store items and content additions.

B2P is exactly the same as F2P except that they just charge you for initial access (box price.)

I happily support Bioware's continuing development and expansion of TOR with my monthly fee. If you don't, there are PLENTY of quality F2P games out there and apparently the Second Coming of the MMORPG genre is coming at some point this year with GW2.

Actually no it doesn't. 1: Almost everything that GW2 has is open world random dynamic events that affect the personal story without the need for quest givers or the need for a long drawn out voice over session and all of the DE quests have multiple choices however NONE of them are required or linear. 2: the game is packed full of these events all over the map, it doesn't lead you in a single line and it doesn't tell you where you should be. My point is it doesn't have the same story elements in it because the entire game affects the solo storyline the solo storyline isn't the ONLY thing that's good about GW2 there's pleanty more not to mention that the storyline of SWTOR is more like LOTRO's storyline and one has to group to be a participant in something that will affect the storyline, and not to mention GW2 will actually have consequences for action/non-action whereas the most SWTOR has to offer for consequences is what it does to your companion, not the world, zones, home instance, personal story etc. See the difference?

You really need to do more research on GW2 before you make posts as you really have no clue about the differences.

B2P stores with only cosmetic items are inconsequential when it comes to gameplay, you don't HAVE to buy anything if you don't want to. So complaining about a store that doesn't have a real impact on gameplay doesn't really make any sense does it.

Thing is you should be complaining about SWTOR because every sub game forces you to have to do a rep/gear treadmill extending the times for you to complete so the longer you have to do a grind for anything the longer you have to be logged in the more money you have to spend it to complete. The next expansion, more rep grinds more gear grinds. It's endless. So it's amazing to me that people like you think that the optional money spent in a store that doesn't affect gameplay and isn't required to play isn't better then the forced grind of these games like SWTOR requiring you to pay to do anything meaningful in the game. Even if they shortened it down to only two months that's still $30 to complete anything.

And finally SWTOR is a solo/instanced game for the VO's for the most part. Very little is done in the rest of the world without a quest giver telling you to go here do this bla bla. I played the beta i know. It's nothing like GW2 will be where in GW2 if you choose to go to another continent you can and instantly pick up and do events that are happening right there around you without level requirements. Also, there is no REAL space mini game to speak of and where is the ability to fly with your friends in formation doing space battles hmmm? 

The facts all point to SWTOR being a poorly designed game with elements of all the same style play we have seen before just so that the execs can feel safe that they are trying to get the WoW crowd instead of offering something fun and different, and so that the devs can pour everything into the vo's and the dungeons  thus slowing the end game content as this model ALWAYS does with every game we've seen it in. It's sad really.

 

  JoeyMMO

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/11
Posts: 1334

To busy playing GW2 to post much around here... *shrug*

1/11/12 2:22:48 PM#65

If it were B2P the odds of it being bought more would be higher. The pricing model wouldn't make the game any better though. So it would probably be better received initially, but the first expansion would have to be really good to get money for again.

  madmikethegm

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/06
Posts: 41

1/11/12 2:34:17 PM#66

If I could just buy the box, and play SWTOR without a subscription it would be a much more appealing game for me.

As it is, I just wasn't that impressed with the beta (the last one before live) enough to say to myself "this is my next MMO".  It just didn't seem worth it to me to pay a monthly subscription for. 

I'm a huge Star Wars fan, a huge MMO fan, and a huge BioWare fan.  Even with all of that, the game just didn't grab me.

 

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

1/11/12 3:01:50 PM#67
Originally posted by Don86

 

 

1 point to note - PC gaming/DD sales are only big in the Western Countries but they fail to capture the asian market due to piracy/torrenting.

I'm from South East Asia and you'll never hear anyone paying for skyrim since they can get it for free(if you catch my drift)

MMORPGs are the only way to break into the asian market.


Oh I know.

 

I am from Central Europe myself and it used to be here like that as well. Everything was pirated at 90-ties, well piracy is still relatively strong but official legal sales coexist nicely and frequently those people who pirate buy alot as well.

Just give your country 10-20 years and you'll see it will slowly change maybe/ propably.

 

Besides isn't console games also pirated in your country?  It is not like it is hard to run / get pirate console games.

  Lawlmonster

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/07/09
Posts: 952

Take my advice, I'm not using it anyway.

1/11/12 3:06:03 PM#68

Yes, actually. If this game was B2P, I wouldn't have to justify spending money on a monthly payment. I'm an American, times are tough over here, and money is definitely a scarce commodity for someone in my position. A one time payment is far more attractice than any combination of subscription or free to play, and I'd certainly prefer this across the list of MMO's, but I realize that's unrealistic.

 

That being said, I'd still wonder where the hell they spent all of their money, and still managed to come out with a product that I can't help feels extremely familiar every fucking step of the way. The worst of that situation is I'm tired of familiarity.

"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  RizelStar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2824

We all breathe and we all die.

1/11/12 3:19:03 PM#69

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns-IIn-DG-c

 

Personally don't even focus on the game just focus on what's being said.

So yea that's just how I've seen it, however money isn't nothing for me but it is to a lot of people who like to invest.

 

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  spizz

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/04
Posts: 2585

1/11/12 4:42:11 PM#70

..."playing me like i've come to the star wars ride at disneyland. "look, but don't touch!"

 

Exactly how I feel...the game just doesnt deliver  an immersive World and honestly, maybe its just for me but I dont have a big feel of StarWars at all. I did like really much the StarWars movies since Iam a kid, but I dont have the feeling when I play that I get sucked into StarWars. When Iam thinking about StarWars than I want to do the following:

* I want to fly a starship actually but not so simple like the mini game, pvp against other players.

 

* I want to have the feeling that Iam actually able to fly to other planets and not just seein a loading screen after loading screen.

* I want to discover and explore the Planets and not send on a small path through narrow maps

 

* I want to meet exciting characters which we know from the movies, maybe characters I would care as a player aswell.

* I want to drive AT-AT´s, flying vehicles and fight on the ground combined in a war beetween Republic and Imperium on a huge sized map and not hacking doors or playing Huttball on mini maps.

* I want to have more fun and interaction with the other players, in swg the bars were full of people dancing, playing music or whatever...at least there was interaction and social communication.

*  Maybe I want an immersive World of StarWars, the list could go on...

The lifeless Worlds is not just one factor, the narrow paths feels just like GuildWars to mee and not like a really immersive World like WorldofWarcraft for example or other mmos. Its everything too stiff too steril and the interaction with the world is almost none existent. 

Heck they have so many emotes for the character and most of them dont even have sound ! 

Sound is such an important factor already besides that npc´s have some kind of paths walking around or doing unforseen things. But the world is too cramped, to narrow and too many instanced maps linked together. 

  Hedeon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/05
Posts: 925

1/11/12 4:59:54 PM#71
Originally posted by BadSpock

You know what is really funny?

GW2 the "god" of MMO gaming on this website has the same single-player instanced/phased personal story elements that TOR has.

TOR phasing drops off significantly after Coruscant/Dromand Kaas.

People who think TOR is all solo/instanced game play either A) have never played the game or B) never got past the starter worlds lol

A good portion of the instanced/phased content after the core worlds is group only (heroic quests, flashpoints, operations, warfronts) and little do some know but 100% of the "single-player" story portions can be played multi-player and are actually a lot of fun to do so because of the conversation system and inside look into the personality of another class.

The only thing in TOR that is 100% single player is the space mini-game.

But anyone who thinks the space game isn't going to change and evolve significantly is fooling themselves.

We'll see multiplayer, free "Rogue Squadron" like flight, and probably PvP down the road.

As for the B2P vs P2P options, I am glad TOR is P2P because I get a ridiculous amount of content for one low monthly fee without feeling nickle and dimed to buy store items and content additions.

B2P is exactly the same as F2P except that they just charge you for initial access (box price.)

I happily support Bioware's continuing development and expansion of TOR with my monthly fee. If you don't, there are PLENTY of quality F2P games out there and apparently the Second Coming of the MMORPG genre is coming at some point this year with GW2.

P2P is exactly the same as F2P + B2P in one, except you often get nothing for the money you spend in the non showing cash shop.  and a game is not multiplayer just because someone ran next to you, it could as well have been an NPC

  FrodoFragins

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2783

1/11/12 5:07:43 PM#72

Absolutely.

 

I'm not subbing when my 30 days runs out.  I would of kept playing and leveling alts if there was no sub though.  I play it as a single player RPG, except for occasional pvp on my main, and just don't like the idea of paying just to level alts.  Especially with the bugs I'm running into.

 

I'm a bit shocked that GW2 will have no subscription and am curious to see how well they do.  I'll definitely be buying it to support their B2P model as well as their move away from teh tank/healer/dps trinity.  I'm hoping that leveling is really fun in that game and if so I'll at least stick with it with several alts.

  parrotpholk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/20/05
Posts: 3317

1/11/12 5:09:49 PM#73

Not really because I would have still played it through once and never thought about picking it up again.  It is a CORPG and should have been marketed as such instead of an MMO

  Xthos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2651

1/11/12 5:14:45 PM#74

A big NO.

 

I am playing the game, and I have plenty that I dislike....But my time is more important than a $15 a month sub, so if I want to play something, I will judge it the same...I don't base my games on what is the cheapest thing and give it a rating based on that scale....I also do not touch f2p either...Those that aren't p2w...I do not  trust that it will remain that way...So I don't waste my time to one day log in to the new patch making it so...I am too skeptical atm to do so....The day may come, but for now I don't.

Dispite what a lot of people say on here, $15 a month is still one of the best entertainment values you can get with your money, you will spend $15 going to the movie theater for a 90 minute movie, but you can play a mmo an unlimited amount of time in a month....Great bang for your buck imo.

 

  Kaocan

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/09
Posts: 1312

The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.

1/11/12 5:58:53 PM#75
Originally posted by pharazonic

 

 

... it were a Buy2Play no-sub MMO like GW/GW2? 

 

Basically, a CORPG (perhaps with some next-gen features for a CORPG), with paid DLCs sold on BioWare's site periodically as well as boxed expansions now and then? 

 

I am a detractor and critic of this game and I would definitely receieve it better if that were the case. 

The benefits of this model would include:

- no sub (duh) 

- less pressure on developers to attain the same functionality of modern, state-of-the-art themeparks (that SWTOR clearly missing at this point)

- mod support from the talented modder crowd BW games seem to have: would include character customization mods, UI mods, etc

 - DLCs that I choose to buy or not buy to improve my own game experience

- have a legitimate reason for things that are otherwise shoddy in an MMO (poor atmosphere for example)

 

So what do you think, critics? 

 

Nope, not at all. Besides, the things you suggest are not all welcomed by everyone, or believed as you do. The comment that SWTOR clearly missing at this point is entirely your own opinion, one which I do not share. You and others may think that way, and also think that the developers are under some imaginary pressure to fix what you think it broken, but again, I dont agree with this opinion.

As for mods, nope, dont want them, mods lead to macros, macros lead to crap PvP. UI modificaitons I can accept, but player base generated mods and addons, nope. 

DLCs that you can buy to effect your standing among your fellow players, called p2w, nope dont want it. 

And poor atmosphere, I'm assuming you think SWTOR has this or you wouldn't have made an example out of it right? If that is the case, nope dont agree with that opinion once again.

So in a nut shell, basically, I dont see anything you have suggested which would make the game any better, worse yes, but better nope. 

(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)

  zymurgeist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5210

1/11/12 6:10:06 PM#76
Originally posted by Pelaaja
Originally posted by fenistil
Originally posted by Pelaaja
Originally posted by zymurgeist

They couldn't build this game as a B2P. The budget is too big.

They could've if they had done it to console platforms also.

But PC only, you're right. There wouldn't have been enought buyers to make profit.

Well imo they made mistake with making game with limited mmorpg features , a game that imo resembles CORPG game but invested ALOT of money on voice overs to it.

If they would made Voice Overs / cutscenes only on class-quests (as they are very costly) and not do cinematic movies then maybe it would be viable as B2P?

That's the point zymurgeist meant, I think.

Full VO raises the budget so high, it must have a cashflow after initial buy (and to cover server upkeep and stuff).

The game has nothing that would be impossible on consoles, and console players are roughly 85% of any new games. That would've made B2P possible.

 The game is way too big for consoles to handle.

"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  Moaky07

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/24/07
Posts: 2199

MMO sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry.

1/11/12 6:35:36 PM#77
Originally posted by zymurgeist
Originally posted by Pelaaja
Originally posted by fenistil
Originally posted by Pelaaja
Originally posted by zymurgeist

They couldn't build this game as a B2P. The budget is too big.

They could've if they had done it to console platforms also.

But PC only, you're right. There wouldn't have been enought buyers to make profit.

Well imo they made mistake with making game with limited mmorpg features , a game that imo resembles CORPG game but invested ALOT of money on voice overs to it.

If they would made Voice Overs / cutscenes only on class-quests (as they are very costly) and not do cinematic movies then maybe it would be viable as B2P?

That's the point zymurgeist meant, I think.

Full VO raises the budget so high, it must have a cashflow after initial buy (and to cover server upkeep and stuff).

The game has nothing that would be impossible on consoles, and console players are roughly 85% of any new games. That would've made B2P possible.

 The game is way too big for consoles to handle.

That may be true, but they could of given us the option to use a controller. Just keep a keyboard/mouse handy if needed.

Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  Golelorn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/23/03
Posts: 1100

1/11/12 6:41:28 PM#78

I will not be resubbing unless a LFD tool is installed before my last day.

Just like Rift did, they will wait until its too late to stop people from jumping ship(like a LFD tool would ruin this already terrible community).

  RizelStar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2824

We all breathe and we all die.

1/11/12 6:41:41 PM#79
Originally posted by RizelStar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns-IIn-DG-c

 

Personally don't even focus on the game just focus on what's being said.

So yea that's just how I've seen it, however money isn't nothing for me but it is to a lot of people who like to invest.

 

Quoted myself since the common sense is lacking on this page.

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  Eir_S

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4703

GW2 socialist.

1/11/12 7:01:08 PM#80

Bad form, Bad Spock - letting the GW2 fans get to you so much that you'd clearly draw a false parallel between it and TOR.  I could look up one video, first one, any one (case in point http://youtu.be/t08vBNqI_oY - gameplay starts at around 2:35), and see the difference in grouping and massively multiplayer content, not just the heroics that TOR seems to throw at you.  Fact of the matter is, my best friend hates grouping, hell he hates people in general, and he's level 47.  You know how many times he's grouped with strangers?  You can count the times on one hand with all the fingers removed.  And he's only grouped with friends a few times.  And he's having fun.

Are you going to say he didn't get off the starter worlds?  Seriously, if you're enjoying the game, enjoy the game, but don't start making hasty posts about a game you should know enough about by now not to.  The games are just not similar.

 

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