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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: Crew Skills and the Endgame

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48 posts found
  Aluvius

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/13/09
Posts: 294

1/10/12 9:38:57 AM#21

The economy/crafting in every mmo without breakage is screwed from day 1.


That being said, the crafting in SWTOR at least takes a little longer to become pointless than most other AAA themepark mmo's.  The reason is Reverse Engineering.  Its also what gives crafting an advantage over the identical/similar blue items you can get via commendations.


Once you get the schematics for those blue items you can then RE them into the various customized purple level items.  Many of them will let you RE up 2 levels from the base blue item, both levels add more stats.


So yeah, crafting is screwed in general because its a non breakage themepark mmo, but the system actually already addresses and has an answer to the main concern of this article.  You can buy the base blue items, but only crafters will be able to make the various artifact level items with customized stats.


  77lolmac77

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/14/11
Posts: 498

1/10/12 10:15:45 AM#22

Originally posted by lizardbones

This seems to be a pretty common issue with MMORPG in general. Crafting does not exist to be an end in itself. It exists to give the people who are doing it something to do in their 'off time'. Even that seems to be lacking a bit.



Synthweaving doesn't seem terribly useful while leveling my Jedi, and Artificing seems only marginally useful. I've chosen the one where you make mods and ear pieces in the hopes that it will be useful with Orange quality gear that I plan on getting. If that doesn't pan out, I'll probably go full up Biochem or just skip it and go with Slicing to make money.



 


that ship has sailed my friend, they severly reduced the amount of credits you get from slicing.


  Ponico

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/01/06
Posts: 651

Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?

- Sun Tsu

1/10/12 10:24:56 AM#23

I'm hitting level 40 and so far, Biochem has been great for me. It aint SWG crafting but I cannot complain just yet. Biochem seems to be the one crafting solution that will allow you to have an edge on the end game. Already in PVP, just having those +42 aim reussable stims, area stims and emergency buffs has allowed me beat the odds. A suddent jump of armor by 800 will make a huge difference in certain situation. 

So far, crafting implants for my guildies has been quite good and only a few managed to find better implants or to the least afford them. Sure, you can spend 25K on some blue implant on Quesh but at the same time, I can craft similar implants for not even half the price.

I'm sure it will get better in the future but so far, Biochem has been the way to go for me. 

 

Also... Slicing might have been toned down but it's no way near a nerf. Anyone in my guild or friends that have Slicing are well beyond the million credits at Level 40. Most took the skill after the "Nerf"

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1909

1/10/12 11:25:55 AM#24

You can always bank on crafters pushing for crafting to have the best gear / rewards in an adventuring game.  You want a crafting simulator, then play one, there are several out there:  Horizons, Eve, FFXIV, A Tale in the Desert and Ryzom. 


I get really irritated when crafters start whining about inequality in games that are and never were meant to be crafting simulators, always pushing for superior crafted items at great expense to the reward systems for the adventuring game.


  maskedweasel

Tipster

Joined: 9/24/07
Posts: 7264

"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane."

1/10/12 11:39:02 AM#25

I've made a ton of characters and every character has had a different crafting prof. 

 

With that said the most helpful and enjoyable are.. in order:

 

1) Biochem

2) Cybertech

3) Artifice

4) Armormech / Synthweaving

5) Armstech

 

I've decided to go mainly the first 3 on any new character I create...   I'll have most go Biochem,  as I already have max cybertech and artifice crafters.

 

The WORST part of the game is simply Bind on Pick Up items that crafters can make.  I mean whats the point of being able to craft a speeder if I can't make more and sell them?    

 

The crafting system as a whole is pretty good,  if you want to be a dedicated crafter, it takes time.. and .. well.. dedication,  and a buddy in one of my guilds has a ton of recipes for armor, and gives everyone gear that has crit'ed and so on,  but, again, for the most part, at the end of the day, you can get similar gear by other means.  Sure the crafted gear might be better due to an augment slot, or you can tailor it depending on the mods you slot....   but its better to go with Biochem or Cybertech which gives you access to awesome consumables as you can always use those.

 

"Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


  Samhael

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/28/04
Posts: 613

1/10/12 12:30:40 PM#26

With a couple of minor exceptions, TOR crafting is largely a money & time sink. Pretty much any drops at 50 (and quite a few in the 47-49) range are better than the orange gear that can be put together.


  artemisentr4

Elite Member

Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1439

1/10/12 1:06:44 PM#27

This is at least a step in the right direction. You can pull all mods out of both PvP and PvE purples to make your crafted orange or orange drops just as viable as the purple counterpart. This doesn't change the fact that many of the crafted items should be BoE and there should be ways to craft some on par items for end game that you can sell. But at least I can keep my look and have the stats.

 

The current situation with end game gear and item modifications isn’t final and, in fact, many community members like yourself have correctly guessed at what our plans to correct the current design are.

Since this is a fairly important issue to many players, let me disclose more details about what is currently in the work regarding purple items and mods:

- All partially moddable purple items will be made fully moddable again, allowing the removal of the armoring, hilt and barrel.

- The set bonus of end gear purples (PVP and PVE) will be transferable to custom items.

- Some item modifications will be restricted to a certain item type. For example, some item modifications will only fit on helmets, while other will only fit on chests, etc.

As usual, the caveats about unfinished work apply, but this should give you and the community a very good idea of our intentions. We are serious about making custom gear an entirely valid alternative to end game gear and we support the players’ ability to customize their appearance all the way to (and including) end game.
 

EmmanuelLusinchi

“How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
R.A.Salvatore

  ukforze

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/06
Posts: 367

1/10/12 1:36:44 PM#28
Originally posted by Vorthanion

You can always bank on crafters pushing for crafting to have the best gear / rewards in an adventuring game.  You want a crafting simulator, then play one, there are several out there:  Horizons, Eve, FFXIV, A Tale in the Desert and Ryzom. 

I get really irritated when crafters start whining about inequality in games that are and never were meant to be crafting simulators, always pushing for superior crafted items at great expense to the reward systems for the adventuring game.

 

So because you dont like crafting it should be deleted or half baked?

You claim ppl should play crafting sims instead? 

...So should the PVP'ers go play Counterstrike? ...& the questers play Zelda?

 

Your ignorance blinds you

 

The Deathstar destroyed planets...Lucas Arts destroyed Galaxies

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Played:
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  MikeB

MMORPG.com Community Manager

Joined: 5/27/09
Posts: 5427

 
OP  1/10/12 1:38:49 PM#29

Originally posted by artemisentr4

This is at least a step in the right direction. You can pull all mods out of both PvP and PvE purples to make your crafted orange or orange drops just as viable as the purple counterpart. This doesn't change the fact that many of the crafted items should be BoE and there should be ways to craft some on par items for end game that you can sell. But at least I can keep my look and have the stats.


 



The current situation with end game gear and item modifications isn’t final and, in fact, many community members like yourself have correctly guessed at what our plans to correct the current design are.



Since this is a fairly important issue to many players, let me disclose more details about what is currently in the work regarding purple items and mods:



- All partially moddable purple items will be made fully moddable again, allowing the removal of the armoring, hilt and barrel.



- The set bonus of end gear purples (PVP and PVE) will be transferable to custom items.



- Some item modifications will be restricted to a certain item type. For example, some item modifications will only fit on helmets, while other will only fit on chests, etc.



As usual, the caveats about unfinished work apply, but this should give you and the community a very good idea of our intentions. We are serious about making custom gear an entirely valid alternative to end game gear and we support the players’ ability to customize their appearance all the way to (and including) end game.

 

EmmanuelLusinchi



 


Yeah, just saw this a little while ago. Very happy to hear this stuff. I'm curious to see how it really applies to PvP items as a lot of the higher end stuff isn't moddable at all.


Michael "MikeB" Bitton
Community Manager
Twitter: @eMikeB

  BadSpock

Elite Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7699

Logic be damned!

1/10/12 1:46:04 PM#30

Delicate balance between having to do the content versus having to buy the content.

Crafters want everything without having to do the content, adventurers want to have their special rewards for doing the content that no one else has (or is really hard to get.)

As with all things, balance is needed.

 

I've always held to the standard:

More people = more complexity.

PvP > All.

 

Crafting, as a "solo" act is simply about time invested, patience, maybe a bit of luck.

Group and especially large group activities require coordination, soft skills (social/people skills) and scheduling.

PvP can always be more challenging then any AI driven encounter.

As such, I am a full supporter of the "best" gear coming from content, not crafting.

Crafting IMO should always be the way to "skip ahead" a bit or play "catch up" more easily but NOT a clear path to the top.

These are MMOrpgs after all.

Kill some people why don't you? Or make some friends and seek riches together!

 

It would seem the people who makes these wonderful games for a living (and are quite good at it most of the time) would tend to agree with my assessment.

Unless, of course, you are talking about a "true" sandbox where 100% of everything is player made, no drops no loot.

Now Playing:
Looking Towards: Destiny

  Khalathwyr

Tipster

Joined: 6/02/04
Posts: 3151

Google is your friend.

1/10/12 2:33:29 PM#31

Too funny.

 

I've been saying this for years now about this game. Back when they announced they would "have crafting because that's what MMO gamers expect to be in an MMO" and when they stated "we didn't want crafting to interefere with players being heroic".

 

Those were your tell tale statements folks. Don't try to act like it is a surprise the crafting system has as much use as it does. There have only been a handful of crafting systems that actually had merit and made the crafter useful in modern MMOs:

Ultima Online, Ryzom, SWG (pre NGE), Horizons(Istaria), EvE and ATITD. I'd even give honorable mention to Darkfall and Mortal Online despite them (imo) being horrid in most other gameplay aspects.

Once developers stop believing the LIE that player crafters making the best will stunt game subscriptions and once some very vocal players stop beliving and propigating the LIE that playing in such a condition limits their play in anyway, then, only then will we start to see meaningful crafting systems return.

"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

Kickstarter 1 / Naysayers 0

  Candomble

Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/11
Posts: 167

1/10/12 3:00:38 PM#32

Personally I think is not that hard to create a rewarding (at least when talking about credits) crafting system. So:


- Vanity tab.


- Gadgets (I remember the repair bot from WoW, for example).


- Pets.


- Mounts.


- A portion of the BiS stuff craftable with schematics and mats coming from operations, with the possibility to trade those recipes and mats. I guess that it wouldn't hurt even the players who believe that BiS stuff should only come from operations.


- Commendation gear and enhancements cannot be better than what you craft. While leveling cybertech, for example, its easier to get blue mods and armor improvements with commendations than crafting them; in endgame it doesn't get any better...


As it is, crafting is money and time sinking. I have been playing with some alts and I can only find biochem to be really useful. From the other professions I can extract a benefit here and there, but if I  was only thinking about utility I wouldn't invest in them.


  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

1/10/12 3:44:24 PM#33

I'm torn on this subject because frankly crafting is so simplistic in this game I really don't think there should be a lot of benefit from it outside of vanity items, leveling purposes and minor amenities. Normally I support crafting playing a larger role, but I find it hard to take that stance with the way crafting is incorporated in this game.


1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  stragen001

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/09/09
Posts: 1737

Mr Flibble is VERY cross

1/10/12 7:44:41 PM#34

I really put some effort in to try and be above the curve on my armorcrafting up until about level 30 or so when the stuff I was able to craft became not as good as the stuff I could buy with commendations.....so now I get most of my stuff from the commendation vendors or AH


Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom

  Stonefalcon

Novice Member

Joined: 5/06/10
Posts: 38

It's called "confidence". It's not my job to explain to other people that I might be wrong.

1/10/12 8:19:26 PM#35

EVE Online has the best craftinf setup. Basically everything apart from the books to learn a skill is all player made and sold via markets and contracts.


"Not meaning to anger anyone with this thread, though I know in these forums its quite impossible. You can say "I enjoy vanilla ice cream" and still have 50 posts of angry, hot-tempered people who have nothing better to do than argue with you." - Dirkzen

  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1835

1/11/12 1:18:29 AM#36

I know it's a rotten attitude, but I don't care if PvPers are happy in SWTOR or what they get. All I seam to hear in game or on the forums is how you can get this or that through PvP and yadayada. I enjoy the occasional warzone immensely, but in no way shape or form do I care about obtaining PvP gear or will I let it effect what choices I make during my storyline.

I believe SWTOR is more about the journey than the destination. All of the crafts I've tried so far have offered something useful at every level during your adventure.

  ZoeMcCloskey

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/14/05
Posts: 1123

INTJ, fun is fun except when it's not

1/11/12 4:34:32 AM#37

I love SWToR, enjoying it alot and I like the crafting in it also.


But much as I hate to say it this crafting system is still like almost every other one that comes out anymore. Tacked on and something any player can do if they want.  I am loathe to bring up that other now dead SW game, but no game has ever had such a great system for crafting and a purely player run economy as SWG had in it's original format.  There if you were a crafter you were a crafter, you could really spend all your time doing it.  People had to come to you to get things since there were no vendors sitting around selling everything and the monsters weren't just dropping every item in the galaxy either.  Crafting meant something and was great.


Not sure any game is ever going to come along like it again though?  Until then we just got to enjoy what we got.  For SWToR feels like a cross between FE and everyotherfantasymmo out now, lol.  I only say FE due to the timer, I actually think FE is a vastly superior crafting game to SWToR if forced to pick.


Now back to SWToR with me :)


  Asherz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/01/10
Posts: 20

1/11/12 5:17:38 AM#38
And u forgot to mention lineage 2.

  thexrated

Novice Member

Joined: 11/26/04
Posts: 1379

1/11/12 5:28:02 AM#39

I also think they need to add better schematics to satisfy the end-game. The hilt is a very good example of this. The crafting is mostly useful for alts. Cybertech in particular is quite useful, so you can keep your armors updates for both you and your companion.

"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."

  Shadanwolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1869

1/11/12 6:43:25 AM#40

First I want to thank the OP for the start of a great thread....and the comments that followed. My reaction is one of dismay. I look for 3 things in a great game.Great pve....great crafting...world class realm vs realm. This game  never has had great rvr and I swallowed my concerns thinking their other two elements were well done in the game  and rvr might get done right ...in the end. Now with craftings flaws...shortcommings  and frankly lack of appreciation by the developers of the demands and sophistication of true crafters...I'm wondering if I'm not wasting my time.

 

I'm beginning to feel Biowar(like so many others) is simply  disrespecting their player target market.They actually think they can throw our poorly thought out,  poorly implemented features and  players will not notice ! AOC....RIFT and many others along with SWTOR are shining examples of this failure to appreciate and understand the wants of players who are attracted to features gaming compays herald as meaningful.

I would suggest that a signifigant number of gamers have acquired knowlege and experience that exceeds that of those actually deciding how some game features will be implemented.A sad commentary indeed if proven to be true.

 

 

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