Originally posted by Shivam

Originally posted by Cryroth

Originally posted by fansede

Crafting system is not seen before. using your companions to craft and to sell your junk for you is new

The companion characters that can create or deny you story arcs based on what you decide.

the first sci fi MMO to have a different type of space combat

 

 

 

Unfornatly the crafting system has been seen in many other free to play mmo that done before SWTOR (companion does the crafting and gathering).

What F2P MMOS are those?

Grand Fantasia has been doing it for a while now. Not sure of the others.

Originally posted by MattNe

Originally posted by Nykyrian

Curious, and i'm talking about a broad veiw i'm not looking for little things like light sabers i mean something completely new... that has never been done or created before.  And before u say voice over quests derp, every mmorpg now a days has a story   

Go?.

I'll takle the bait,

 

There is nothing new...but...I challenge you to give me 1 new or different game...not since the 90's has there been a 'new' or 'different' MMO.

I agree and wonder why in certain peoples minds something "new" is an issue.  I mean look at the Madden series.  Same game different rosters.

Originally posted by fansede

Crafting system is not seen before. using your companions to craft and to sell your junk for you is new

The companion characters that can create or deny you story arcs based on what you decide.

the first sci fi MMO to have a different type of space combat

 

 

 

 Grand Fantasia companions do the crafting in that game and you get 3 at a time to do three crafting and even harvesting the materials at the same time, you also have a storyline with the companions in that game as well, they even have their own little rooms with stuff in it to make crafting and collecting materials better.

The fact that you can level with your companion as a healer tank or dps as you so wish.

Originally posted by Wicoa

The fact that you can level with your companion as a healer tank or dps as you so wish.

Not new:  Gods & Heroes and Guild Wars did the same.

The question should be. Did you buy the game? If that is a yes then...................... Umm.

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by Wicoa

The fact that you can level with your companion as a healer tank or dps as you so wish.

Not new:  Gods & Heroes and Guild Wars did the same.

Star Trek online ups this, you can have 4 bridge officers following you around on a map, healing and dpsing for you.  As for the post topic, EVERYTHING done in SWTOR has been done better by others.

Originally posted by Mondo80

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by Wicoa

The fact that you can level with your companion as a healer tank or dps as you so wish.

Not new:  Gods & Heroes and Guild Wars did the same.

Star Trek online ups this, you can have 4 bridge officers following you around on a map, healing and dpsing for you.  As for the post topic, EVERYTHING done in SWTOR has been done better by others.

I knew I was forgetting one.  Thanks for mentioning STO.

Originally posted by Mondo80

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by Wicoa

The fact that you can level with your companion as a healer tank or dps as you so wish.

Not new:  Gods & Heroes and Guild Wars did the same.

Star Trek online ups this, you can have 4 bridge officers following you around on a map, healing and dpsing for you.  As for the post topic, EVERYTHING done in SWTOR has been done better by others.

"Done better" is subjective and IMO what makes the MMO market competitive.  Look at all the MMO's listed here and compare that to 10 years ago.  Variety and competition is good.

Originally posted by daltanious

{mod edit}  Sad thing is how much has grown this thread. Game is awesome, bug free, incredible lore, quality, ... all controls react as should .... Anyway .. when I buy car I go for quality, I do not bother if is using 4 wheels.

Now that is a blantant lie. SWTOR bug free ? I dont think so.

Resource nodes that could not be interacted with and in some places the bug is still there. Crafting resource spawning under the terrain.

Mobs that when in combat will evade once they hit 80% health and go back to their original positions and their health then resets and you start combat all over again.

A horrible bug that will remove the reverse engineering button from your inventry and the only way to get it back is to either open up your cargo hold or go to a vendor.

A companion that wants to talk to you but each time you get to your ship or cantina they refuse to speak. (had this one the other night. Still not resolved.)

Sith Sorcerers being able to stun lock you in pvp, and even with the ability to break that stun they can do it again once their GCD wears off for the skill which is 1.5 seconds, while your immune skill to being stunned or slowed takes something like 3 minutes to cool down.

Level 40 + in the warzones with level 10 to 30. I have seen one  level 50 bounty hunter hold off 10 level 20 to 30 players and win the match because we couldn't break through the door he was guarding. The rest of his team guarded the other door.

Originally posted by forumtalker

Originally posted by Mondo80

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by Wicoa

The fact that you can level with your companion as a healer tank or dps as you so wish.

Not new:  Gods & Heroes and Guild Wars did the same.

Star Trek online ups this, you can have 4 bridge officers following you around on a map, healing and dpsing for you.  As for the post topic, EVERYTHING done in SWTOR has been done better by others.

"Done better" is subjective and IMO what makes the MMO market completitive.  Look at all the MMO's listed here and compare that to 10 years ago.  Variety and competition is good.

The problem is that the MMO market as a whole has become corrupt with the "I-want-it-now" complex. Greedy companies have dragged the genre down into an amalgimation of horribly simplistic mechanics that are NOTHING more than a psychological trap for people to keep paying money into for the EXACT same outcome as every other Joe.

Originally posted by yewsef

Originally posted by Eir_S

Did it ever claim it was innovative?  I don't recall, and I also don't think so.  If it did, then there's a point to this thread.  Because they didn't deliver.

 

Bioware CEO in an interview 3 years ago claimed that they will add the 4th pillar of MMORPGs and he called it the Story Pillar.

But you're right, no one claimed that SWTOR is innovative (because it is not innovative and that's not its strong point). SWTOR is a game that you know how it plays before you play it if you're an MMORPG player. No surprises, it's just gives you a WoW fix.

If you hate WoW or got bored of it, you're going to be extremely disappointed. There's no story in the world which will make you play hours and hours of the same game mechanics copies exactly from a previous game that you've spent 5 years playing.

 

Wrong. Its exactly THAT which keeps me playing swtor over the first month. The character progression story is it all for me and redefines the way MMOs tell their story from now on.

Now lets pick this up and make it new standart for the genre and have someone do a sequel that combines it with more fleshed out story, great GFX (not the plastic dolls we have here) and world changing impact.

*dream*

Originally posted by forumtalker

Originally posted by Mondo80

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by Wicoa

The fact that you can level with your companion as a healer tank or dps as you so wish.

Not new:  Gods & Heroes and Guild Wars did the same.

Star Trek online ups this, you can have 4 bridge officers following you around on a map, healing and dpsing for you.  As for the post topic, EVERYTHING done in SWTOR has been done better by others.

"Done better" is subjective and IMO what makes the MMO market completitive.  Look at all the MMO's listed here and compare that to 10 years ago.  Variety and competition is good.

I agree. Though one thing has changed and thats the production costs. Take SWTOR as an extreme example, 80-300 mil is the housenumber i keep hearing. At those costs producing niche MMO that cater to only specific tastes becomes nonviable.

Imho, the golden days of MMOs are over. You simply can't produce, and keep updating, games at the quality(mostly graphics and sound) people expect these days and expect to make money with anything less than atleast a quartermillion active subs(or the equivalent cashflow in a F2P). Just think about how long it has taken to create a new item in UO, and how long it must take in a game like this. Im no graphics designer, but that much is obvious even to me.

EvE is really the most "out there" successfull MMO atm, the rest are either in maintenance mode, going/went F2P or very close WoW mirrors. I think Warhammer was the final straw, it had the backing of a big producer(EA), was done by experienced team that had done a similar pvp focused MMO before and was built on a generally well liked franchise among gamers. It should have been a success, it wasn't though and now everyone is scared of touching the genre with anything but a tried and working formula.

GW2 is really only going as far as it does because its a) the sequel to successful game and b) financially being based on box sales not subscriptions. Not much risk there, getting initial sales never was a problem, even WHO and AOC got plenty of sales/preorders.

It entertains me!

Hard to believe but an MMO finally got me entertaint again i do not have to sit all day playing the MMO rushing to endgame wondering wtf i am doing.

I play a couple hrs a day have fun like hell and feel like my Character has accomplished something and can stop playing i got my dayly game fix without having wasted the whole day.

I know it might sound strange but thats just what it made different from all the other new MMOs the only other game that gave me the same fix was Skyrim.

Originally posted by Jesterftk

Originally posted by yewsef

Originally posted by Eir_S

Did it ever claim it was innovative?  I don't recall, and I also don't think so.  If it did, then there's a point to this thread.  Because they didn't deliver.

 

Bioware CEO in an interview 3 years ago claimed that they will add the 4th pillar of MMORPGs and he called it the Story Pillar.

But you're right, no one claimed that SWTOR is innovative (because it is not innovative and that's not its strong point). SWTOR is a game that you know how it plays before you play it if you're an MMORPG player. No surprises, it's just gives you a WoW fix.

If you hate WoW or got bored of it, you're going to be extremely disappointed. There's no story in the world which will make you play hours and hours of the same game mechanics copies exactly from a previous game that you've spent 5 years playing.

 

Wrong. Its exactly THAT which keeps me playing swtor over the first month. The character progression story is it all for me and redefines the way MMOs tell their story from now on.

Now lets pick this up and make it new standart for the genre and have someone do a sequel that combines it with more fleshed out story, great GFX (not the plastic dolls we have here) and world changing impact.

*dream*

And who would that be? Who would be rich enough besides EA and having the necessary credentials like BW to make an even bigger game? 100-300mil .... what more can we expect? That someone poures a billion into making a MMO on a franchise less well known than SW?

I like the story as much as the next guy really, but its silly if it costs this much money. How many subs do they need to keep making(free?) content at these production costs? I just can't see how we can expect BW will be making expansions etc at THIS quality and required workload while still matching price and quantity with its competitors who just have some intern type up a questtext in their worldbuilder system instead of having to hire a professional soundstudio(3x since its in 3 languages ) ...

Not sure about "every made", but then again I'm not sure why it matters. I've come to the conclusion people just care to much about games nowadays. It used to be about just enjoying a game. Nintendo, Sega and all that seemed new. It was more of a luxury to play games and when you did, you didn't have social tools to express your feelings. Now, with smartphones and the like becoming the norm, and Facebook becoming an everday use tool, people can express themselves without a face. To me, it just seems to much. Maybe I'm not donating much to this post by saying this, but then again this post just seems irrelevant and uninformational. One to his own I guess!

Eve Online is the most innotive MMO on the market. It breaks from the norm which is WoW clone based games. It has the best pvp system in place in any MMO game its servers are robust and can host up to 50k people all on at the same time without queues or slow down.  No other MMO can do this or has done this.

SWTOR on pre-release had wait times to get logged in of over 1 to 2 hours on some servers.

Eve Online has a player run market and everything you see on it 95% of it can be made by other players. No level caps either and you train skills in real time. Even now as I write this post I am training skills on my characters no other MMO can do this, you hit level 50 , 80 or 100 and then the game stops you from going further. Which is one reason WoW is dying people are tired of starting again from scratch.

For a MMO to have any life to it it has to be like Ultima Online or Eve Online (a sandbox MMO). SWTOR will be free to play within the next 3 years is my preditction.

Originally posted by Rocketeer

Originally posted by forumtalker

Originally posted by Mondo80

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by Wicoa

The fact that you can level with your companion as a healer tank or dps as you so wish.

Not new:  Gods & Heroes and Guild Wars did the same.

Star Trek online ups this, you can have 4 bridge officers following you around on a map, healing and dpsing for you.  As for the post topic, EVERYTHING done in SWTOR has been done better by others.

"Done better" is subjective and IMO what makes the MMO market completitive.  Look at all the MMO's listed here and compare that to 10 years ago.  Variety and competition is good.

I agree. Though one thing has changed and thats the production costs. Take SWTOR as an extreme example, 80-300 mil is the housenumber i keep hearing. At those costs producing niche MMO that cater to only specific tastes becomes nonviable.

Imho, the golden days of MMOs are over. You simply can't produce, and keep updating, games at the quality(mostly graphics and sound) people expect these days and expect to make money with anything less than atleast a quartermillion active subs(or the equivalent cashflow in a F2P). Just think about how long it has taken to create a new item in UO, and how long it must take in a game like this. Im no graphics designer, but that much is obvious even to me.

EvE is really the most "out there" successfull MMO atm, the rest are either in maintenance mode, going/went F2P or very close WoW mirrors. I think Warhammer was the final straw, it had the backing of a big producer(EA), was done by experienced team that had done a similar pvp focused MMO before and was built on a generally well liked franchise among gamers. It should have been a success, it wasn't though and now everyone is scared of touching the genre with anything but a tried and working formula.

 

GW2 is really only going as far as it does because its a) the sequel to successful game and b) financially being based on box sales not subscriptions. Not much risk there, getting initial sales never was a problem, even WHO and AOC got plenty of sales/preorders.

It doesn't matter IF the team building it is experienced, OR if the fanbase behind the franchise is a popular one. If the primary PRODUCER & IP HOLDER tell the developers that they have to do it X way their expertise is going to have LITTLE impact.

EA told Mythic that they wanted to go a more "traditional" WoW-style in order to get BIG monetary returns. THEN, GamesWorkshop came over and told them to nix their THREE realm idea that Mythic devs initially wanted to go, but GamesWorkshop shot that down due to "Lore Limitations". Even though it would have been EASY to create a 3-realm system using the lore of Warhammer.

It's ALWAYS about money, and when the company seeks money INSTEAD of a quality product the money runs away! Anyone ever heard the phase "Build it, and they will come..."?! Publishers (EA, SOE, etc etc) want MONEEEYYY, but don't realize that a focused quality product will get them what they want, a LOT of money!

HOWEVER, I should point out that SOE has recently remedied this ignorant position in their development plans as PlanetSide 2 is looking more and more like a quality product rather than a money grab.

Originally posted by Rocketeer

Originally posted by forumtalker

Originally posted by Mondo80

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by Wicoa

The fact that you can level with your companion as a healer tank or dps as you so wish.

Not new:  Gods & Heroes and Guild Wars did the same.

Star Trek online ups this, you can have 4 bridge officers following you around on a map, healing and dpsing for you.  As for the post topic, EVERYTHING done in SWTOR has been done better by others.

"Done better" is subjective and IMO what makes the MMO market completitive.  Look at all the MMO's listed here and compare that to 10 years ago.  Variety and competition is good.

I agree. Though one thing has changed and thats the production costs. Take SWTOR as an extreme example, 80-300 mil is the housenumber i keep hearing. At those costs producing niche MMO that cater to only specific tastes becomes nonviable.

Imho, the golden days of MMOs are over. You simply can't produce, and keep updating, games at the quality(mostly graphics and sound) people expect these days and expect to make money with anything less than atleast a quartermillion active subs(or the equivalent cashflow in a F2P). Just think about how long it has taken to create a new item in UO, and how long it must take in a game like this. Im no graphics designer, but that much is obvious even to me.

EvE is really the most "out there" successfull MMO atm, the rest are either in maintenance mode, going/went F2P or very close WoW mirrors. I think Warhammer was the final straw, it had the backing of a big producer(EA), was done by experienced team that had done a similar pvp focused MMO before and was built on a generally well liked franchise among gamers. It should have been a success, it wasn't though and now everyone is scared of touching the genre with anything but a tried and working formula.

 

GW2 is really only going as far as it does because its a) the sequel to successful game and b) financially being based on box sales not subscriptions. Not much risk there, getting initial sales never was a problem, even WHO and AOC got plenty of sales/preorders.

I agree with most you have said, except for the numbers on revenue necessary to keep/maintain/continued development of a mmorpg. Its not that i can say the oposite, but i still cant find a trustworthy source with info on that subject. I have read many opinions that stand on both sides of the line, but still no real case study on that.